Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[N3ON]

I'd say if you're going to outsource your remake, pick a team that can actually counterbalance GF's shortcomings, at the forefront of which are most certainly HD game development. Which is a strange weakness for a company producing triple A games in 2021, even for Nintendo.

They didn't seem to go that route. They sort of doubled down on it.

In more positive takes, Legends Arceus is the first time I'm conflicted on a starter because I genuinely like and would choose any of the three. I've never not had a clear favourite before. But that's a good problem to have, I suppose.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It's a bit unfair to say " omg these new pokemon games Are bad" one one isn't even out yet and the other isnt even FINISHED yet

 

[PeridotGX]

I can't believe Decidueye has a semi-plausible chance again.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Idk I think it just comes down to a preference of art style, personally I like both the cel-shaded anime-esque look and the toon look.

Anyway can’t wait for Cyndaquil to get confirmed as Fighter 10 get hyped Cyndaquil fans!

I don't really mind either style. I just don't like the execution of it here. There's a lot of people who like the older chibi characters. I do too to a degree. But that combined with how flat the colors are really doesn't do it favors. It doesn't make it pop and makes it look cheap. Not saying it is, but visuals are definitely an important factor in first impressions.

 

[ForsakenM]

It's a bit unfair to say " omg these new pokemon games Are bad" one one isn't even out yet and the other isnt even FINISHED yet

Except we went through this before already with Sword/Shield, and the people who said it would be rather bad were right from the beginning.

Everyone here being skeptical is perfectly within their right to do so, and it makes sense logically as GF has done nothing but disappoint in recent memory outside of money-hustling mobile titles. Though I will say, if GF ACTUALLY manages to polish up Legends: Arceus, I'm back. My only solace is that they have much more time on their hands and this feels like it has more wiggle room for pushing back as it's not a new mainline Pokemon title.

As for how this pertains to Smash, yet another Pokemon announcement goes by without any talks about Smash, and yet someone people still think a Pokemon can be DLC when it goes against everything we know and have seen. Wish some of the logical approach people have towards Pokemon would be applied towards Smash speculation...

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I can't believe Decidueye has a semi-plausible chance again.

The only thing is that it was made explicit that he was replaced, similarly to Alucard, Rex, Spring-Man and possibly Chun-Li if the Negotiations leak is true. I think the situation with him coming back is a bit different than Min-Min or Pyra/Mythra personally.

 

[SharkLord]

In the context of Smash, I feel like Legends is a bit too late for the "Shillpick Effect" to take hold. All the promotional picks chosen in advance had about a year to a six months between their reserving and their game's release, and another year/half a year before their DLC. Legends is set to release after the pass is finished; Even if the starters have existed for years now, it would be too early for a Legends content pack.

 

[Deleted member]

Is the social thread dead?

Anyway, BDSP looks... not great, but Arceus has potential.

Kinda felt like it was dying for awhile since it used to be where basic discussion was held until the DLC Speculation Thread was created.

In the context of Smash, I feel like Legends is a bit too late for the "Shillpick Effect" to take hold. All the promotional picks chosen in advance had about a year to a six months between their reserving and their game's release, and another year/half a year before their DLC. Legends is set to release after the pass is finished; Even if the starters have existed for years now, it would be too early for a Legends content pack.

Legends: Arceus (never knew it was pronounced Ark-E-us until today) isn't releasing until 2022. They said 'Early' but by gaming standards, that typically means 'Quarter 1' so March could still be 'early'. The DLC has got two character left; we're probably going to see it finished up before even the Remakes release (since a 'late' 2021 release is probably its normal November window).

So yeah, probably too late to get the 'Shillpick' treatment for either of the Gen 4 iterations coming.

That doesn't mean we definitely won't get a Pokemon rep in some way, shape, or form, since it is the 25th Anniversary of the series (could add a character as a final 'birthday' celebration of the series). At this point, though, I'd be fine if they decided not to add a Gen 8 rep or even add some updated Pobeball pokemon. We've got enough to be happy with and being able to mentally rule out another series rep possibility helps in narrowing down speculation.

 

[ForsakenM]

In the context of Smash, I feel like Legends is a bit too late for the "Shillpick Effect" to take hold. All the promotional picks chosen in advance had about a year to a six months between their reserving and their game's release, and another year/half a year before their DLC. Legends is set to release after the pass is finished; Even if the starters have existed for years now, it would be too early for a Legends content pack.

But not for Pass 3, which we all know is basically a lock.

I say this facetiously of course, because Pokemon has no chance regardless of the number of passes.

 

[SKX31]

I'd say if you're going to outsource your remake, pick a team that can actually counterbalance GF's shortcomings, at the forefront of which are most certainly HD game development. Which is a strange weakness for a company producing triple A games in 2021, even for Nintendo.

They didn't seem to go that route. They sort of doubled down on it.

In more positive takes, Legends Arceus is the first time I'm conflicted on a starter because I genuinely like and would choose any of the three. I've never not had a clear favourite before. But that's a good problem to have, I suppose.

It makes sense when looking from an organizational perspective:

Game Freak is even more cost-averse - in areas not deemed important - probably because Pokemon is the only consistent thing they have. Even as it is one of the world's biggest cashcows (it's telling when the franchise's reached and become popular in areas that Nintendo have historically struggled in like* India). It's kinda like the whole "Nintendo is cost-averse because video game consoles and games are the only consistent things they have" but magnified to a large degree. Nintendo not only have their consoles, but also a significant luxury: Two franchises that are recognized worldwide in addition to Pokemon (Mario, Zelda).

And a good rule of thumb when it comes to organizational thinking is (I made this up, but it's something that is glaring): Once a way of thinking becomes dominant in an organization, it entrenches itself quickly and is extremely difficult to even loosen. Especially if the people responsible for the organizational ideology (Miyamoto etc. in Nintendo's case) see success and feel vindicated.

And chances are, people are going to stick to that because it's the successful way. At least until there's been enough blowback (as nebolous as that is).

*(Nintendo's not even mentioned once in either article.)

In the context of Smash, I feel like Legends is a bit too late for the "Shillpick Effect" to take hold. All the promotional picks chosen in advance had about a year to a six months between their reserving and their game's release, and another year/half a year before their DLC. Legends is set to release after the pass is finished; Even if the starters have existed for years now, it would be too early for a Legends content pack.

And that's why I'mma bring up FP3 in this context.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I'm hype for Legends, as it seems like they're learning from the mistakes of Sword and Shield and are improving on these things. It also looks like they've been developing it since Late 2019 at least, potentially earlier. I'm excited. Cautious considering the Series in question, but I'm excited. As long as they don't make the Marketing Screw-ups that they did with Sword and Shield I'll stay hyped.

 

[ForsakenM]

So I've heard rumors of some fake leak about a concert.

Been working a lot so I'm not quite up to snuff, what were people trying to fake now? Was it another 4chan leak that we just all decided to ignore like sensible folk?

 

[TwiceEXE]

But not for Pass 3, which we all know is basically a lock.

I say this facetiously of course, because Pokemon has no chance regardless of the number of passes.

Pokemon has a better chance than Geno at least

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't really mind either style. I just don't like the execution of it here. There's a lot of people who like the older chibi characters. I do too to a degree. But that combined with how flat the colors are really doesn't do it favors. It doesn't make it pop and makes it look cheap. Not saying it is, but visuals are definitely an important factor in first impressions.

Personally it doesn’t look too flat to me; the world looks really good imo, it kinda feels like Link’s Awakening Switch but maybe a bit more detailed at least in some parts like the lake. I can see the characters themselves looking flat though, just personally their shading/lighting/whatever still looks nice to me.

I also liked Let’s Go though, and the art style feels similar to that game’s too, so I guess that’s why it looks good to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But not for Pass 3, which we all know is basically a lock.

I say this facetiously of course, because Pokemon has no chance regardless of the number of passes.

Sakurai: implies pass 2 is all we're getting multiple times

"It's a lock"

How? I'd like an explanation beyond "They'd be stupid not too" as Nintendo's not done a lot of things that make sense

 

[Deleted member]

Is the social thread dead?

Smashing Ramen was gonna change the poll and accidently deleted the thread

 

[Deleted member]

So I've heard rumors of some fake leak about a concert.

Been working a lot so I'm not quite up to snuff, what were people trying to fake now? Was it another 4chan leak that we just all decided to ignore like sensible folk?

The explanation was several pages back, but the abridged version is that it was about a supposed Concert to Celebrate Smash & the end of the Pass. It would have featured an orchestra for the concert and the leak had a song list; supposedly in order, with 'N. Sanity Beach' and some other song known from the Monster Hunter series that hinted at Crash Bandicoot & Monster Hunter being the last two reps. The leak was proven fake, but was mostly sunk before it took hold because there were many irregularities about it to begin with.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

A Pass 3 ain't happening.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Huh, that was something.

I get what they were going for with BDSP (thank God it's Diamond and Pearl and not, say Diamond and Moonstone), but I'm not really a fan of the art style and top-down perspective. Then again, the fact that it's being done by a different studio meant from the start that GF wouldn't help with any assets and components from SwSh.

Tbh, as long as the Dex is the clearly superior Platinum one and not the lackluster one from DP, I'm game. If anything, I should be glad someone else is getting the opportunity to shine with these remakes.

Legends looks... kinda bad, tbh. Some animations were revamped, but others look stilted, like the game is struggling to run. Then again, I thought poorly of BotW back when the first demo aired (the one with the big empty Hyrule Field) and it's literally in my top 3 Switch games now, so... I'll wait a bit until we have more footage.

I think Legends might get something... if we get a third Volume. Otherwise, it feels a bit early. Even though some aspects of the game might be interesting mechanics for a Pokémon Character to have, depending on how the Action aspect of that game turns out.

Toon Pokémon Trainer from BDSP tho? That one's a lock.

 

[Deleted member]

Kinda felt like it was dying for awhile since it used to be where basic discussion was held until the DLC Speculation Thread was created.

iirc most of the regulars of the social thread left after that one fiasco in 2019, and what few people remain are either here or in the new social thread(s).

I personally prefer the social threads tbh, they have a much more chill atmosphere than in here.

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, so here's my predictions/hopes for the last 2 fighters, any two of:

• Bandana Dee
• Crash Bandicoot
• Sora
• Dr. Eggman

 

[DarkFalcon]

Personally it doesn’t look too flat to me; the world looks really good imo, it kinda feels like Link’s Awakening Switch but maybe a bit more detailed at least in some parts like the lake. I can see the characters themselves looking flat though, just personally their shading/lighting/whatever still looks nice to me.

I also liked Let’s Go though, and the art style feels similar to that game’s too, so I guess that’s why it looks good to me.

Fair enough. Though I think Link's Awakening despite being Chibi had a different flair to it. Can't remember what the style is called but it looked like clay figures in motion, which it nailed pretty well. Though I didn't personally mesh with that either I feel it nailed exactly what it's trying to be.

I really don't know what to call the remakes though. Kind of a mix of the old 2D chibi art and let's go and it really doesn't sit right with me.

The bright side is the Legends game has a ton of promise. GameFreak actually trying to innovate is a big thumbs up to me. All I can hope for is by release it's a stable 30 FPS, but considering it's GameFreak I have my doubts.

 

[Dinoman96]

Sakurai: implies pass 2 is all we're getting multiple times

"It's a lock"

How? I'd like an explanation beyond "They'd be stupid not too" as Nintendo's not done a lot of things that make sense

The dude was joking

He literally said " I say this facetiously of course"

 

[Otoad64]

I can't believe Decidueye has a semi-plausible chance again.

if they do one of the starters I hope it's Oshawott. Not Samurott, mind you specifically Oshawott. Or Dewott

Okay, so here's my predictions/hopes for the last 2 fighters, any two of:

• Bandana Dee
• Crash Bandicoot
• Dr. Eggman

 

[Dyamanttine]

Okay, so here's my predictions/hopes for the last 2 fighters, any two of:

• Bandana Dee
• Crash Bandicoot
• Sora
• Dr. Eggman

This is pretty much what i'm expecting, but sadly change Bandana Dee with Monster Hunter/Capcom Rep ;-;

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’m not saying a Pass 3 isn’t coming, but I’m not saying a Pass 3 is coming either.

Theres really not much of any evidence in the way of a Pass 3. The only thing really going for it is Nintendo’s incentive to make one, as most of us would probably pay for one.

 

[Deleted member]

A Pass 3 ain't happening.

Normally I don't agree with blunt posts without any reasoning behind them, but this I do. It's been a long *** development cycle (from Smash U directly to Ultimate & 2 Fighter's Passes). At some point, no matter how many 'amazing 3rd party' inclusions they get, eventually they're going to reach a point of diminishing returns thanks to how much they have to pay to all these different companies & developers for these characters and music rights.

We've had characters like Banjo, Steve, Terry, and Sephiroth grab the attention of the last groups of people who may have been on the fence. At this point, if you aren't already interested in Smash, there's nobody else they could add that would make a person go out and buy the game. A whole new pass, with even more companies to pay for the rights to use their characters in, would require an amount of money from the pass that they likely wouldn't be able to secure in order to make profitable (since there's no new market to appeal to; you're just going back to the well at that point).

 

[Goombaic]

The dude was joking

He literally said " I say this facetiously of course"

They said that in regards to a Pokemon's chances in a hypothetical FP3.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Sakurai: implies pass 2 is all we're getting multiple times

"It's a lock"

How? I'd like an explanation beyond "They'd be stupid not too" as Nintendo's not done a lot of things that make sense

It's obviously not a lock and I think it has a low chance, but the argument is probably just Nintendo being like this.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The dude was joking

He literally said " I say this facetiously of course"

I took that as him joking about Pokemon's likelihood, not about a third pass

 

[N3ON]

I can't believe Decidueye has a semi-plausible chance again.

Decidueye having a chance and Spring-Man and Rex not having one is the timeline I was waiting for.

It makes sense when looking from an organizational perspective:

Game Freak is even more cost-averse - in areas not deemed important - probably because Pokemon is the only consistent thing they have. Even as it is one of the world's biggest cashcows (it's telling when the franchise's reached and become popular in areas that Nintendo have historically struggled in like* India). It's kinda like the whole "Nintendo is cost-averse because video game consoles and games are the only consistent things they have" but magnified to a large degree. Nintendo not only have their consoles, but also a significant luxury: Two franchises that are recognized worldwide in addition to Pokemon (Mario, Zelda).

And a good rule of thumb when it comes to organizational thinking is (I made this up, but it's something that is glaring): Once a way of thinking becomes dominant in an organization, it entrenches itself quickly and is extremely difficult to even loosen. Especially if the people responsible for the organizational ideology (Miyamoto etc. in Nintendo's case) see success and feel vindicated.

And chances are, people are going to stick to that because it's the successful way. At least until there's been enough blowback (as nebolous as that is).

*(Nintendo's not even mentioned once in either article.)

I understand being cost-averse, and Nintendo obviously spends less on their big titles than most other companies, but with such a safe investment like a mainline Pokemon game, there's a difference between cost aversion and going for an actual budget look. You sink a bit more capital into those resources and your bottom line will still overwhelmingly be in the black. It's not like Odyssey and BotW and Mario Kart skimp on the visuals, even without the fact that those artstyles do a lot of heavy lifting (which Pokemon could also leverage).

And especially when you outsource a title, you could seek a company that has enough experience with contemporary graphics that they could achieve those results more efficiently, and thus more cost-effectively.

I'm not saying the game has to look like it ought to be on PS5, or even PS4, but there is room for improvement without breaking the bank, considering how high the returns will be. None of these mainline Pokemon games are a financial risk, nor would they be if they were of fidelity more in line with the rest of the first-party. I mean these remakes are going to sell at least 10 million copies.

And of course they don't need to change. Pokemon doesn't need to improve at all to keep being extremely commercially viable, and thus many of its increasingly apparent shortcomings will become more evident. But simply not needing to doesn't preclude it from criticism. It's not like I'm a shareholder.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Okay, so here's my predictions/hopes for the last 2 fighters, any two of:

• Bandana Dee
• Crash Bandicoot
• Sora
• Dr. Eggman

It's not gonna be one of these lol.

 

[Dinoman96]

I still do think it's somewhat worth pointing out that Sakurai hasn't actually said "this is it" since Min Min's release last year, IIRC. That was before the pass really started taking off with Steve and Sephiroth.

Of course, if in the Pyra/Mythra showcase Sakurai reiterates that this is the end, then yeah, stick a fork in it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It's obviously not a lock and I think it has a low chance, but the argument is probably just Nintendo being like this.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe would like to say hello regarding DLC.

Not to mention they gotta move on sometime given the lifetime of the Switch and eventual next console.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I still do think it's somewhat worth pointing out that Sakurai hasn't actually said "this is it" since Min Min's release last year, IIRC. That was before the pass really started taking off with Steve and Sephiroth.

Of course, if in the Pyra/Mythra showcase Sakurai reiterates that this is the end, then yeah, stick a fork in it.

Either this or CP10’s showcase tbh. These two opportunities are also the prime time to do the opposite and announce a third pass as iirc that happened around Terry’s time

 

[N3ON]

I still do think it's somewhat worth pointing out that Sakurai hasn't actually said "this is it" since Min Min's release last year, IIRC. That was before the pass really started taking off with Steve and Sephiroth.

Of course, if in the Pyra/Mythra showcase Sakurai reiterates that this is the end, then yeah, stick a fork in it.

I know, he hasn't said development is ending after this pass since the last time he said development is ending after this pass.

We might as well start celebrating the third pass now.

 

[Louie G.]

I have no strong stance on FP3 right now, and I prefer not to think about it until it's explicitly addressed (confirmed or denied) by Sakurai or Nintendo. I think the conversation is just popping up a lot right now because, naturally, everyone is afraid there isn't enough room for the characters they want. I'd rather just accept that my characters probably won't happen in preparation and if the opportunity presents itself that will be a pleasant surprise.

I think it's possible that we have additional DLC, although I feel a few stray or standalone characters are generally more likely than another entire pass. Seeing how huge Ultimate is and how there are plenty other fighters that are or have been well into their third or fourth DLC passes I imagine there's at least some precedent to believe it's a possibility.

I'm not gonna get on anyone's cases for considering it, I do however think it's ridiculous to assume it's a sure thing and it's a lot safer to just take things at face value right now.

 

[Dinoman96]

I know, he hasn't said development is ending after this pass since the last time he said development is ending after this pass.

We might as well start celebrating the third pass now.

I'm just saying it's been a while and there may be a small, dying chance of him changing his mind since then.

At the very least, I think he could of pointed out in Sephiroth's showcase that we were at the halfway point before Ultimate is finished, but he didn't say anything about it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can see an Echo Pass, maybe even a few post-Pass 2 individual DLC as a last "Thank You" to fans but that's it.

Even then I don't think that's happening. The last two are gonna be it and this long ride will be over as they proceed with production on Smash 6 where half the roster will be cut but not before and hopefully Sakurai gets to take a long break and vacation.

 

[Brother AJ]

It's not gonna be one of these lol.

What makes you so sure Crash won't be in?