Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[pupNapoleon]

1. Pikmin being niche therefore not receiving too much acknowledgement

I mean... the DEBUT game (on a system, Gamecube, wherein it is one of the biggest series to come from this era), sold 1.2 million copies. It took until Awakening to reach the 2 million mark (or close thereto), and this was considered revolutionary.
I feel like the terms of 'niche' and 'mainstream success' often get very strayed, based on the point an individual is trying to propagate.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yes, but in a way that counts. which will be next month

But... Assist Trophies DO count.

At least, according to Sakurai, apparently.

 

[FreeFox]

But... Assist Trophies DO count.

At least, according to Sakurai, apparently.

You know what they say "Being an assist trophy is like getting a participation medal"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what they say "Being an assist trophy is like getting a participation medal"

You get to participate, but nobody cares.

Checks out.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It... it isn't?



It's literally just a collection of various puzzles loosely tied together by an overarching plot. There's no combat or traversal or strategy elements, just hundreds of puzzles.



If that's not a puzzle game, I really don't know what is.

Ima late but Professor Layton is a Puzzle/Adventrue. Idk what Swamp is talking about

 

[BlondeLombax]

For real that **** was so hype I'd have bought BBTag had it not been for Senran Kagura

I’m on the polar opposite of that spectrum; if they add more from the franchise, I’d buy BBTag for Senran Kagura alone. It’s a franchise I unironically adore (if my gushing over it in certain spots on this thread and the Social are of any indication).

In other news, possibly ‘d, but Pic of the Day anyway;

2001年のきょう､『黄金の太陽 開かれし封印』(Golden Sun)発売!!
ロビンのアシストフィギュアは､ムーブというエナジーを使います｡本編では岩や柱を動かせる便利もの｡
続編が二作出ていますが､三作目は30年後｡息子が主役です｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/wOd8IyC9lT

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) August 2, 2021

I don’t think I’ve ever bared witness to such a series of unfortunate events in a Smash cycle as I’ve seen for Isaac. From the Rathalos snapshot during development to the Healing Orb being mistaken for a Golden Sun item, things seemed to be looking really good until the Grinch Leak was put out to pasture. I can’t think of any character who’s had as much misfortune.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I’m on the polar opposite of that spectrum; if they add more from the franchise, I’d buy BBTag for Senran Kagura alone. It’s a franchise I unironically adore (if my gushing over it in certain spots on this thread and the Social are of any indication).

In other news, possibly ‘d, but Pic of the Day anyway;

2001年のきょう､『黄金の太陽 開かれし封印』(Golden Sun)発売!!
ロビンのアシストフィギュアは､ムーブというエナジーを使います｡本編では岩や柱を動かせる便利もの｡
続編が二作出ていますが､三作目は30年後｡息子が主役です｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/wOd8IyC9lT

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) August 2, 2021

I don’t think I’ve ever bared witness to such a series of unfortunate events in a Smash cycle as I’ve seen for Isaac. From the Rathalos snapshot during development to the Healing Orb being mistaken for a Golden Sun item, things seemed to be looking really good until the Grinch Leak was put out to pasture. I can’t think of any character who’s had as much misfortune.

All of Camelots and anything relating to Sega CD4 dev created franchises are cursed

Shining Force
LandStalker
Illbleed
Blue Stinger
Golden Sun

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

yeah I’d recommend not playing the lady Layton game. Was tuned down to try and appeal to women more and it literally gets rid of the majority of things that made the original trilogy and the 2nd trilogy great.

I was excited for it but ill be the first to say that it was a mistake not having Layton as the main character. The games did just as good with women when Layton was the main character then they did when his daughter was. And to be honest the games puzzles went downhill after the Puzzle Maker died

 

[epicmartin7]

Boyz. Welcome to 1985.

Time to breakout my NES.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

It's strange in hindsight that Alph wasn't made into an Echo Fighter especially since he was intended to be a clone in Smash 4 and some Echoes like Daisy and Richter are just alts with new animations and voices. Seems like it would have been a no-brainer.

But then again, as time continues to prove, the dev team REALLY hates changing characters when they don't have to. So it's not all that surprising.

 

[BlondeLombax]

It's strange in hindsight that Alph wasn't made into an Echo Fighter especially since he was intended to be a clone in Smash 4 and some Echoes like Daisy and Richter are just alts with new animations and voices. Seems like it would have been a no-brainer.

If that trend continues into the next game, I'd love to see Louie as an Olimar echo with Brittany as an alt. They already have the similar body structures (and appetites).

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

That was in 2017, and the roster was determined in 2015, two years before that. Pikmin was still not doing that hot. I didn't say relevant, I said "big to promote". ...Hey! Pikmin isn't exactly a big game. It's a smaller spin-off game.

I know, I was mainly talking about the present situation/FP2 rather than base game. But yeah, even if I want to see them add someone like Louie instead, I do think they could've done way more for Alph. Alongside that, give Olimar and Alph their voices! They have voices in the actual games!

Bulbmin I can definitely see! Maybe even alongside Louie since both made their debut in Pikmin 2. Puffmin (the Mushroom Pikmin) are simply regular Pikmin that were temporarily infected by the Puffstool's spores in the Forest Navel, and they attack Olimar, so them helping him out wouldn't make much sense.

If that trend continues into the next game, I'd love to see Louie as an Olimar echo with Brittany as an alt. They already have the similar body structures (and appetites).

That would be a fantastic idea! Furthermore, I remember someone suggesting that Louie use PikPik Carrots for his aerials instead of the Pikmin themselves, which could easily be swapped out for cherries for the Brittany alt!

 

[7NATOR]

I feel like this question was asked before, but just in case I'll ask it again

If Ultimate had a Regular Amount of Newcomers, who do you think would have made the Roster?

I think because Ultimate had such a low amount of Newcomers (Even lower than Smash 64), that characters that might have had a chance in getting in a Regular Smash game lost their chance in Ultimate

It's also likely that the Standard for DLC Characters are higher, so there's this weird gap with characters that weren't prioritized enough for Base Roster, and Might likely not get prioritized for DLC either

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I feel like this question was asked before, but just in case I'll ask it again

If Ultimate had a Regular Amount of Newcomers, who do you think would have made the Roster?

I think because Ultimate had such a low amount of Newcomers (Even lower than Smash 64), that characters that might have had a chance in getting in a Regular Smash game lost their chance in Ultimate

It's also likely that the Standard for DLC Characters are higher, so there's this weird gap with characters that weren't prioritized enough for Base Roster, and Might likely not get prioritized for DLC either

Issac for sure. I can’t imagine he wouldn’t’ve made the cut if there were more characters. Skull Kid and Shadow probably would’ve had better chances too.

 

[osby]

I feel like this question was asked before, but just in case I'll ask it again

If Ultimate had a Regular Amount of Newcomers, who do you think would have made the Roster?

I think because Ultimate had such a low amount of Newcomers (Even lower than Smash 64), that characters that might have had a chance in getting in a Regular Smash game lost their chance in Ultimate

It's also likely that the Standard for DLC Characters are higher, so there's this weird gap with characters that weren't prioritized enough for Base Roster, and Might likely not get prioritized for DLC either

Considering we got characters from ARMS and XC2, it's likely that any charscter who missed their chance probably would have get in with DLC anyway.

 

[N3ON]

I’m on the polar opposite of that spectrum; if they add more from the franchise, I’d buy BBTag for Senran Kagura alone. It’s a franchise I unironically adore (if my gushing over it in certain spots on this thread and the Social are of any indication).

In other news, possibly ‘d, but Pic of the Day anyway;

2001年のきょう､『黄金の太陽 開かれし封印』(Golden Sun)発売!!
ロビンのアシストフィギュアは､ムーブというエナジーを使います｡本編では岩や柱を動かせる便利もの｡
続編が二作出ていますが､三作目は30年後｡息子が主役です｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/wOd8IyC9lT

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) August 2, 2021

I don’t think I’ve ever bared witness to such a series of unfortunate events in a Smash cycle as I’ve seen for Isaac. From the Rathalos snapshot during development to the Healing Orb being mistaken for a Golden Sun item, things seemed to be looking really good until the Grinch Leak was put out to pasture. I can’t think of any character who’s had as much misfortune.

Nice to catch a rare instance of Sakurai being aware this series exists

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You get to participate, but nobody cares.

Checks out.

You get a 1/59 shot of appearing for a few seconds in the background and only if people bother to turn on items, which a sizable proportion of the player base does not, most notably in competitive.

Gee and I wonder why nobody cares.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You SAY nobody cares, but tell that to people when the "Assist Trophies" section of the Direct starts leading up to launch! They sure care then!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Boyz. Welcome to 1985.

View attachment 325073

Time to breakout my NES.

Man, you're lucky. All I can play is the ZX Spectrum because the NES was too expensive over in Europe. Just look how long it takes to load one game.

Though I have to admit, there is something... mesmerising about the load screen...

 

[Guynamednelson]

All I can play is the ZX Spectrum because the NES was too expensive over in Europe

Well that and you didn't get it until 1986. To be fair the same is true for the majority of the United States, only New Yorkers could get it in 85.

 

[Ben Holt]

Who did Vladimir Lenin vote for in the Fighter Ballot?
Amaterasu from Oh, Commie!

 

[Theguy123]

I was excited for it but ill be the first to say that it was a mistake not having Layton as the main character. The games did just as good with women when Layton was the main character then they did when his daughter was. And to be honest the games puzzles went downhill after the Puzzle Maker died

I’m glad the anime fixed this apparently. Apparently the anime was popular and a success over in Japan which is why the game got a rerelease with the anime voice actors and why it got a re-run recently on TV in Japan.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Pic of the Day:

2001年のきょう､『黄金の太陽 開かれし封印』(Golden Sun)発売!!
ロビンのアシストフィギュアは､ムーブというエナジーを使います｡本編では岩や柱を動かせる便利もの｡
続編が二作出ていますが､三作目は30年後｡息子が主役です｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/wOd8IyC9lT

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) August 2, 2021

Today in 2001, "Golden Sun" (Golden Sun) is on sale !! Isaac's assist figure uses an energy called move. In this volume, it is a convenient one that can move rocks and pillars. Two sequels have been produced, but the third one is 30 years later. Isaac's son is the main character.

Yay. I was getting worried for a moment when we got Pokémon instead of Golden Sun on its 20th Anniversary. Just glad to see it get acknowledged by Sakurai in some way after all this time. Especially since the Rathalos one probably wasn't intentional.

Also nice to see Isaac giving Pokémon the Move Pound treatment

 

[PSIGuy]

Sakurai's already said that every game with substantial content will get a daily pic if there's an appropriate anniversary. Costumes, stages, assist trophies, items and fighters all count.

 

[PeridotGX]

I feel like this question was asked before, but just in case I'll ask it again

If Ultimate had a Regular Amount of Newcomers, who do you think would have made the Roster?

I think because Ultimate had such a low amount of Newcomers (Even lower than Smash 64), that characters that might have had a chance in getting in a Regular Smash game lost their chance in Ultimate

It's also likely that the Standard for DLC Characters are higher, so there's this weird gap with characters that weren't prioritized enough for Base Roster, and Might likely not get prioritized for DLC either

Interesting question. I'm going to add 7 more characters, two of which get to be third party.

• Isaac. He did well enough on the ballot to come back as an AT, if they had more resources I could definitely seeing them upping the representation
• Krystal. See Isaac, more or less. She was big in the fanbase, but that kinda died between 4 and Ult.
• Bandana Dee. Popular and relevant.
• Zelda rep. I don't know who specifically, but I feel like we would get one.
• Retro character. Once again, I don't know who exactly, but I feel like we would have got another retro character. Maybe a Gameboy or SNES rep this time?
• Zero. Once again, he was popular enough to be an AT.
• Rayman. Ubisoft has been begging to get him in the game for years, and his niche-ness in Japan is softened by being a base game character.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

• Krystal. See Isaac, more or less. She was big in the fanbase, but that kinda died between 4 and Ult.

I think I know the reason why (Note: Video contains a lot of cursing. Please watch at the risk of your own sanity.):

 

[Geno Boost]

what gimmick fighting style we dont have in smash yet?

 

[PeridotGX]

what gimmick fighting style we dont have in smash yet?

Vectorman style. There are a few characters who fight with the Vectorman style, but I think Vectorman is the best choice.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So yesterday I decided to finally do something I've been trying to for a few months now: I turned on my Wii again and replayed all of SSE for the first time in over 10 years.

I wanted to do it just because I started having doubts about whether or not I was being blinded by nostalgia goggles. Now I can safely say that it's not the case. As far as I'm concerned, The Subspace Emissary is the best single player experience to ever grace Smash.

Firstly, it's far shorter than I remembered - to the point where I think a seasoned payer can clear it all in one sitting. Secondly, I felt that the "beat'em'up-esque" sections were never boring and the ambushes rarely overstayed their welcome. Though I do have a problem with some moving sections. But overall, walking through levels was a very fun experience. There's a bunch of interesting mechanics and puzzles too, which I feel bring some variety to the table.

I can see why it ate so much dev time - and because of that, I kinda wished Sakurai and the team had reused more stuff from the existing stages and more enemies from existing series rather than try to make so much from scratch. Would have given the world more personality too - very few areas seem actually inspired by Nintendo worlds, like Skyworld and the Ice Climbers area.

As for the setpieces and the story, it's amazing how they managed to create some interesting moments out of a crossover story where pretty much no one talks. Plenty of great moments, like Lucas' mini character arc, Meta Knight and Marth fighting back to back, Captain Falcon accidentally killing like a dozen Pikmin while landing from a midair Falcon Punch... there are some things that go unexplained unless you read Sakurai's blog posts, but otherwise it's very solid.

I really wish the Smash team didn't focus so much on people uploading cutscenes from the internet and tried to give a similar experience in 4 and Ultimate. Smash Run is close, but it's not a substitute, and WoL seemed more and more flawed with every run I made. I wish they saw that watching the SSE cutscenes is not a substitute for the mode. It's some of the best times I've had with a single player mode in Smash, and I'm sad to see this great concept for a mode go like that.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

what gimmick fighting style we dont have in smash yet?

Hmm...
A stance character that could upgrade their moves in battle? (and per stock)

Specific HYPOTHETICAL example since it's in my head right now:
Gill Grunt
Persephone is a background character whenever Gill's in battle. In Skylanders canon, Persephone is who you go to to upgrade a character's moves, from providing more power, to even providing brand new moves and passive abilities. You can also choose to focus your upgrade on a specific "path" of your choice. In this hypothetical Smash situation, Gill goes up to her (like Steve going up to his crafting table), and, let's say by pressing down on the joystick, Gill can upgrade his harpoon gun, his other moves, and even upgrade to his Rip Tide form by collecting adequate currency (which he could collect by doing damage on opponents or collect even more by getting hit himself).

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

what gimmick fighting style we dont have in smash yet?

I don't think we have a bo-staff weapon fighter yet do we. Palutena uses a staff, so that's really close; but it's more of a magic weapon than a martial one. The best person I can think of for this is Krystal. She's first party and a long standing request. However, if they really wanted to go third party on the basis of this weapon alone there's Kilik from Soul Calibur.

Also I have to pitch that we don't really have an earth magic user in Smash, and Isaac would suit that perfectly. The closest is Ivysaur's grass moves, which has a bit of crossover with Venus Psynergy.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

what gimmick fighting style we dont have in smash yet?

Install
Grappler
Switching weapons to change the whole move set (Pyra and Mythra transform into each other and Min Min’s arm change only affects her neutral B)

 

[GilTheGreat19]

what gimmick fighting style we dont have in smash yet?

Another answer I just though of, influenced by what Rie just said

A character that could switch weapons using Down-B, but with the switching of weapons, gets a whole different set of specials and normal attacks.

Example: Bodvar from Brawlhalla
he gets 3 sets of moves

1) Weaponless
2) With his sword
3) With his hammer

 

[Theguy123]

what gimmick fighting style we dont have in smash yet?

we don’t have a fighting character who completely changes moveset in a 2nd for.

the closest we kinda Get is terry who once passes a certain percentage of damage he unlocks 2 new moves.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I feel like this question was asked before, but just in case I'll ask it again

If Ultimate had a Regular Amount of Newcomers, who do you think would have made the Roster?

I think because Ultimate had such a low amount of Newcomers (Even lower than Smash 64), that characters that might have had a chance in getting in a Regular Smash game lost their chance in Ultimate

It's also likely that the Standard for DLC Characters are higher, so there's this weird gap with characters that weren't prioritized enough for Base Roster, and Might likely not get prioritized for DLC either

As someothers said..

1) Isaac
2) Piranha Plant in base
3) Bandana Waddle Dee
4) Either Banjo or Steve

And that’s basically all, maybe some of the most new ATs like Krystal or Knuckles, but a 10/12 newcomers + 5 echoes is a somewhat reasonable expectation.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I feel like this question was asked before, but just in case I'll ask it again

If Ultimate had a Regular Amount of Newcomers, who do you think would have made the Roster?

I think because Ultimate had such a low amount of Newcomers (Even lower than Smash 64), that characters that might have had a chance in getting in a Regular Smash game lost their chance in Ultimate

It's also likely that the Standard for DLC Characters are higher, so there's this weird gap with characters that weren't prioritized enough for Base Roster, and Might likely not get prioritized for DLC either

I think Elma for sure would have been base if this was the scenario

 

[Sucumbio]

Unpopular opinion: I actually loved Star Fox Adventures.

 

[Theguy123]

do we know when voice lines are recorded for characters leading up to their trailers and presentations. Are they recorded after their trailers and presentations are done, are they recorded way in advance or are they recorded as the trailers and presentations are being made

had a theory that came to me last night about how the last character could potentially have an English voice which is why the wait is taking some time but it’s just a theory and only works a bit if voice lines for the character are recorded right before the character trailer and presentations are done

 

[Cutie Gwen]

do we know when voice lines are recorded for characters leading up to their trailers and presentations. Are they recorded after their trailers and presentations are done, are they recorded way in advance or are they recorded as the trailers and presentations are being made

had a theory that came to me last night about how the last character could potentially have an English voice which is why the wait is taking some time but it’s just a theory and only works a bit if voice lines for the character are recorded right before the character trailer and presentations are done

Skye Bennett's said she did the VA work of Pythra like 6 months prior to the announcement iirc

 

[Theguy123]

Skye Bennett's said she did the VA work of Pythra like 6 months prior to the announcement iirc

darn it. My theory doesn’t hold up then I don’t think. Ohh well.