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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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PeridotGX

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Just a reminder that the legacy xp theory still exists. What’s the legacy xp theory you may ask???

Legacy XP’s takedown was rumoured to be because one of the characters in the game that wasn’t already in smash at the time was interfering with the dlc. The only characters it could’ve been if this was legit was

Metal sonic
Geno
Shadow
Or Waluigi

Were down to the last character spot and sega still haven’t had any extra mii costumes in this pass yet whereas every company from pass 1 has had extra content.

They also held negotiations for FP2 and we don’t know the outcome of them.

Sakurai never addressed springman being an AT trophy in the arms presentation and even included him in the original arms announcement trailer and the arms reveal trailer itself.

Now it could all mean nothing or it could just of been for geno’s mii costume but right now the theory is still alive till that last character is announced.

PURELY speculation here. I just like having convos with people on here and talking about theories.
if nintendo was deleting mods that had the dlc characters in it, PMEX Remix would be gone. Not only does it have all four of those characters, it had Sephiroth well before he was added to Ultimate. However, PMEX is fine, so I don't think it means anything.
 
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Dukefire

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Quick question,

Which Tekken soundtrack you enjoyed/engaged the most?

For me, Moonlit Wilderness
 

MasterCheef

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Nintendo characters have a hard time fitting into "rules" because there are more of them, not because they're somehow worthy of exceptions being made for them. 9 times out of 10 claims that "X is OK for 1st parties, but a barrier to entry to 3rd parties" is easily proven false with the characters we've got:
Thanks just to be clear "claims that "X is OK for 1st parties, but a barrier to entry to 3rd parties" is not the claim i was actually making. I was in fact saying it is much easier for the Nintendo characters to get a pass on some of Sakurai's rules than it is for third party characters.

Also as a general rule it is the way a character plays not the move-set which Sakurai looks for in unique gameplay.
 

Theguy123

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bull****. if nintendo was deleting mods that had the dlc characters in it, PMEX Remix would be gone. Not only does it have all four of those characters, it had Sephiroth well before he was added to Ultimate. However, PMEX is fine, so I don't think it means anything.
I personally don’t think the legacy XP take down means anything but I do think it’s worth keeping in mind for the time being.

Also Hate to break it to you but sephiroth wasn’t in legacy XP.
 

RileyXY1

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I personally don’t think the legacy XP take down means anything but I do think it’s worth keeping in mind for the time being.

Also Hate to break it to you but sephiroth wasn’t in legacy XP.
PMEX Remix and Legacy XP are two different mods, and I also think that the Legacy XP takedown doesn't mean anything as it's probably just Nintendo trying to protect their copyrights.
 

PeridotGX

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I personally don’t think the legacy XP take down means anything but I do think it’s worth keeping in mind for the time being.

Also Hate to break it to you but sephiroth wasn’t in legacy XP.
I was saying that Sephiroth was in anothr mod, one that wasn't taken down. If they were taking down mods for having DLC characters, it would've been killed. But it wasn't.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I was in fact saying it is much easier for the Nintendo characters to get a pass on some of Sakurai's rules than it is for third party characters.
But it's not though. Because they don't exist.

Characters tend to be from the previous generation at least because game development takes time. Now, there is a grain of truth here because Nintendo has access to their own characters sooner than 3rd party characters, but there isn't any arbitrary history requirement.

The characters themselves need to stand out, but if the character can be implemented, having a never before seen mechanic is not a requirement.

Personality has got to be the most arbitrary argument against a character. No way does it actually factor into anything other than animations.
 

DarthEnderX

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Do you all know Sakurai's Rules for playable character Smash inclusion?

1 character must have video game history

2 character must originate from a video game

3 Both Companies must want the character in the game

4 Second & Third party companies must be willing to allow Sakurai artistic license with their character

5 character must have unique smash gameplay mechanic

6 character must have personality to be shown in smash

7 Distribution among franchises is taken into consideration

8 Development ( time and difficulty ) is considered too.
Only #2 is an actual rule.

Definitely off the table. We would have gotten echos earlier if it wasn't just one slot left.
Would we though?

None of the DLC characters we got has an obvious Echo other than Pyra/Mythra, and they did something else with them.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Let me get this straight you 100% believe Sakurai was telling the truth on no more fighters after fighters pass 2. However you don't believe his own rules out of his own mouth?
Because a lot of these are stuff that fans interpret weirdly.

#1 and #2 are the only things Sakurai actually said when it comes to rules, iirc (and I'm probably wrong about #1), even repeating the second multiple times because casual fans can't comprehend why Goku's not in the roster yet.

#3 and #4 are just standard negotiation stuff between companies, not actual rules

#5 is pointless because with enough creativity, anyone can have a unique mechanic for Smash

#6 is redundant with #4, and pointless in general since companies would want their characters represented faithfully

#7.... what are you even trying to say with that one?

#8 is also a bit weird. On one hand, yes, dev time and hardware limits are vital parts of game development but on the other, they managed to pull off Steve despite all the work required for him and the Rex idea wasn't scrapped because it was impossible, only repurposed into a Pyra and Mythra moveset. This shows Sakurai and the other devs have good schedule management and adaptability, making #8 seemingly pointless.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Let me get this straight you 100% believe Sakurai was telling the truth on no more fighters after fighters pass 2. However you don't believe his own rules out of his own mouth?
One statement is from 2008 presented contextless, the other is from lifted verbatim from a presentation last month. Things like “personality” can mostly be interpreted as having a basis to creatively work off of and none of these rules have ever been presented by Sakurai in a ten-commandment-format and are mostly sentences lifted from slides etc. The fact CP11 is the last character is a statement reiterated multiple times throughout the last few months and can only be interpreted as meaning something else by saying the man is lying, since the wording itself is very much non-ambigious
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Let me get this straight you 100% believe Sakurai was telling the truth on no more fighters after fighters pass 2. However you don't believe his own rules out of his own mouth?
I didn't care enough to watch the video and you said he didn't cite his sources so I assumed whatever was there was bogus. Furthermore, from a quick skim, I can see that one or more of the sources are old enough to be potentially outdated (Villager, Miis, Ridley, and I believe PAC-Man were all stated to be impossible back then). Sakurai is saying that Challenger Pack 11 is the last character right now.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Sakurai can always change his mind, sure. But its taken him a lot of time to do so in the past. Its not like hes gonna say “Theres No more DLC after CP11” today then say “Nvm lmao I want Crash now” tomorrow.

If Sakurai says no DLC is planned now, that means there is no DLC planned now.
 
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Quick Gaming (QG)

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Because a lot of these are stuff that fans interpret weirdly.

#1 and #2 are the only things Sakurai actually said when it comes to rules, iirc (and I'm probably wrong about #1), even repeating the second multiple times because casual fans can't comprehend why Goku's not in the roster yet.

#3 and #4 are just standard negotiation stuff between companies, not actual rules

#5 is pointless because with enough creativity, anyone can have a unique mechanic for Smash

#6 is redundant with #4, and pointless in general since companies would want their characters represented faithfully

#7.... what are you even trying to say with that one?

#8 is also a bit weird. On one hand, yes, dev time and hardware limits are vital parts of game development but on the other, they managed to pull off Steve despite all the work required for him and the Rex idea wasn't scrapped because it was impossible, only repurposed into a Pyra and Mythra moveset. This shows Sakurai and the other devs have good schedule management and adaptability, making #8 seemingly pointless.
hey I know it's a bit off topic but in your signature you could probably make FNAF dark blue, the creator said earlier this year he has no plans for game collabs this year
 

volbound1700

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Sakurai can always change his mind, sure. But its taken him a lot of time to do so in the past. Its not like hes gonna say “Theres No more DLC after CP11” today then say “Nvm lmao I want Crash now” tomorrow.

If Sakurai says no DLC is planned now, that means there is no DLC planned now.
The fact that he re-iterated and put emphasis in the quote also seems to seal the deal, to me, that this is the last character. Had there been a vague comment from him to Famitsu or in passing, then I would say that he could change his mind or be mistranslated. However, he put emphasis on this comment and followed it up.
 
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Slightly off topic but this Sakurai discussion is making me remember how whenever anyone brings up Rex I'm reminded that he's literally too sexy for Smash. People thought that would stop Pyra and Mythra, but no, it was your boy Rex's design that got rejected! :4pacman:

 

Rie Sonomura

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Anyway, I’m now 100% confident that bonus slot on the eshop IF IT EVEN IS SOMETHING AT ALL will be a three pack of bonus stages that comes with music for each

likely one third party stage maximum (indies count I think)

What would you like to see if this is the case?
 

SpectreJordan

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Anyway, I’m now 100% confident that bonus slot on the eshop IF IT EVEN IS SOMETHING AT ALL will be a three pack of bonus stages that comes with music for each

likely one third party stage maximum (indies count I think)

What would you like to see if this is the case?
Golden Sun, Astral Chain & Undertale would make for some cool stages! I’m dying for more Undertale music in Smash.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Anyway, I’m now 100% confident that bonus slot on the eshop IF IT EVEN IS SOMETHING AT ALL will be a three pack of bonus stages that comes with music for each

likely one third party stage maximum (indies count I think)

What would you like to see if this is the case?
Oh man how cool would it be if we got a Rhythm Heaven stage with a dummy thick song list.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I kinda want a Gunvolt stage with a frick ton of GV series music including from Luminous Avenger iX

GOD Gunvolt music is sooooo good I can’t pick just ONE song
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Slightly off topic but this Sakurai discussion is making me remember how whenever anyone brings up Rex I'm reminded that he's literally too sexy for Smash. People thought that would stop Pyra and Mythra, but no, it was your boy Rex's design that got rejected!
What gets me is that the highly detailed designs of Rex & Pyra/Mythra prevented them from adding the character as they should be as a team, but Rex & Pyra/Mythra can be onscreen in 8 Player Smash, but Joker and Morgana can't.

I can only guess it's the AI in addition to the high polygon count but...man I want more info as to how this works.
 

Rie Sonomura

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What gets me is that the highly detailed designs of Rex & Pyra/Mythra prevented them from adding the character as they should be as a team, but Rex & Pyra/Mythra can be onscreen in 8 Player Smash, but Joker and Morgana can't.

I can only guess it's the AI in addition to the high polygon count but...man I want more info as to how this works.
Morgana’s even smaller than Rex this makes no sense??
 

Paraster

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Anyway, I’m now 100% confident that bonus slot on the eshop IF IT EVEN IS SOMETHING AT ALL will be a three pack of bonus stages that comes with music for each

likely one third party stage maximum (indies count I think)

What would you like to see if this is the case?
Pac-Maze
Dead Bird Studio (A Hat In Time)
An Undertale or Cave Story stage
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Morgana’s even smaller than Rex this makes no sense??
Because Rex is part of the Final Smash so he has to be rendered no matter what.

Morgana isn't because Joker's Final Smash is a cutscene. Joker also has Arsene to render as well, so having all three models rendered for 8-Player Smash...

So the devs only cut whatever corners they can cut.
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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Anyway, I’m now 100% confident that bonus slot on the eshop IF IT EVEN IS SOMETHING AT ALL will be a three pack of bonus stages that comes with music for each

likely one third party stage maximum (indies count I think)

What would you like to see if this is the case?
I’d love this to be true. I wasn’t even aware there was a Bonus Slot on the Eshop.

I’d guess we get a returning Stage, a 1st Party Stage, and a 3rd Party Stage.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I don’t think it’ll be a returning stage they didn’t include in base cause they would have done so. RIP Poke Floats, the Wooly World stage, Orbital Gate… Pyrosphere is understandable cuz Ridley’s playable now
 

MBRedboy31

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What gets me is that the highly detailed designs of Rex & Pyra/Mythra prevented them from adding the character as they should be as a team, but Rex & Pyra/Mythra can be onscreen in 8 Player Smash, but Joker and Morgana can't.

I can only guess it's the AI in addition to the high polygon count but...man I want more info as to how this works.
Joker can already have two detailed character models onscreen simultaneously due to Arsene, so that's my guess as to why he can't also summon Morgana as a third person onscreen at the same time. Pyra or Mythra summoning Rex is only two models onscreen simultaneously.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I don’t think it’ll be a returning stage they didn’t include in base cause they would have done so. RIP Poke Floats, the Wooly World stage, Orbital Gate… Pyrosphere is understandable cuz Ridley’s playable now
RIP the Pac-Maze dream
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Joker can already have two detailed character models onscreen simultaneously due to Arsene, so that's my guess as to why he can't also summon Morgana as a third person onscreen at the same time. Pyra or Mythra summoning Rex is only two models onscreen simultaneously.
Oh Arsene! I completely forgot about Arsene. Everything makes sense again. Well...more sense anyway.
 

MattX20

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Anyway, I’m now 100% confident that bonus slot on the eshop IF IT EVEN IS SOMETHING AT ALL will be a three pack of bonus stages that comes with music for each

likely one third party stage maximum (indies count I think)

What would you like to see if this is the case?
If we do get bonus stages, my guess is they would be older stages from previous games. Pac Maze in particular is a rather egregious ommission, that and there's also the DKC Returns stage and if the Starfox Assault stage can't come back, there's the Rainbow Road stage from the 3DS version
 
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