Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[MasterCheef]

This could be for literally anything that involves the two companies teaming up.

Doesn't have to be Chief in Smash, could just be something like Master Chief Collection for the Switch... which wold still be amazing, tbf.


The fact that it's a direct "no" instead of a non-answer makes me think that this isn't a NDA.

I could be wrong, but one statement from one person, no matter how important, isn't reliable either way.


It's the Halo Twitter. Of course they'd say they want their mascot in Smash if someone asks them who they want?

That's not a leak, that's just a reminder that twitter accounts are handled by humans.


Again, doesn't mean anything all that much. Just a sign of the two companies being on good terms.

Assuming this is a Smash leak is really grasping for straws.


This is a vague enough statement that it can be interpreted in many ways, from a "confirmation" to a "he wasn't chosen for this game" and anything in between.

But with how heavy on NDAs Nintendo can be, I am certain that the France division of Microsoft isn't all that much aware of what the Nintendo and Microsoft executives discussed concerning Smash.

1 I really can't imagine when Microsoft says they really want to support the Nintendo Switch somehow Master Chief in Smash was not a part of the equation.

2 I think Frank O'Connor purposely added the last ( "not is" ) to his statement to throw everyone off.

3 to me the timing is what is quite suspect in this case, not as to whether or not it has been done.

4 to me the Instagram post actually speaks to a well thought guess at a potential spirit board.

5 The France Division probably heard through the grapevine. word can get around quite quickly.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

1 I really can't imagine when Microsoft says they really want to support the Nintendo Switch somehow Master Chief in Smash was not a part of the equation.

2 I think Frank O'Connor purposely added the last ( "not is" ) to his statement to throw everyone off.

3 to me the timing is what is quite suspect in this case, not as to whether or not it has been done.

4 to me the Instagram post actually speaks to a well thought guess at a potential spirit board.

5 The France Division probably heard through the grapevine. word can get around quite quickly.

1. I can, because not everything revolves around Smash. Just the idea of getting Master Chief Collection on a portable system (if that's what the Switches are hinting at) would already give Microsoft a gold mine of money-making opportunity.

2. Well, that's just you having a tinfoil hat theory. But like I said, one statement from one person is never definitive proof.

3. So you truly believe that, even though Nintendo makes an effort to ensure only those who should know about a character are in the know with NDAs, but then Microsoft just gives that into away to the PR guy who runs the twitter account? That would be an extremely risky move on Microsoft's part because breaking NDAs can break business relationships.

4. Which isn't a leak. It's just a fan making crossover fanart. That is in no way, shape or form a "leak". Because companies talking or making references to each other is NOT confirmation for Smash.

5. And again, even if that were true, they'd tell the PR guy running the Twitter account?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don’t really understand the reasoning to why people think a 2nd Microsoft rep would happen in this pass.

Because he would be "hype" and we all know Smash loves expensive finales.

 

[MasterCheef]

2. Well, that's just you having a tinfoil hat theory. But like I said, one statement from one person is never definitive proof.

Interesting. One statement from one person is never definitive proof except seemingly when it comes to Masahiro Sakurai.

 

[PeridotGX]

Can't believe they let him smother people to death for his neutral B and murder anyone playing the game as long as they're called James

so that's why they added Min Min over Spring Man...

 

[Dukefire]

Just to state the elephant in the room, we may see the last reveal either this fall or the winter since THIS IS the Last one for Ultimate's DLC lineup. It could be Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Rayman, or any other character that has been requested for a long while

Now, which character is worth the final spot, that is the million dollar question and the most risky chance to take.

Whoever is the final pick, we know one place that will lose.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Just to state the elephant in the room, we may see the last reveal either this fall or the winter since THIS IS the Last one for Ultimate's DLC lineup.

No ****, Sherlock?

 

[osby]

Just to state the elephant in the room, we may see the last reveal either this fall or the winter since THIS IS the Last one for Ultimate's DLC lineup. It could be Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Rayman, or any other character that has been requested for a long while

Now, which character is worth the final spot, that is the million dollar question and the most risky chance to take.

Whoever is the final pick, we know one place that will lose.

You know, there is nothing that suggests Nintendo will treat the final spot as something special.

For all we know, we'll just get another Switch-era Nintendo character like Min Min or Pyra/Mythra with regular fanfare.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Interesting. One statement from one person is never definitive proof except seemingly when it comes to Masahiro Sakurai.

Now you're just taking my words out of context.

Within the realm of Smash speculation, statements from people related to other IPs aren't reliable because there's always this layer of "is this a NDA answer or is that character really not happening?"

But when it comes to Sakurai, there's no speculation to talk about whe he says stuff because Sakurai is the one who makes Smash, therefore the stuff he says about Smash tends to be more reliable.

For example, it's not speculation that Pyra and Mythra originally started with Rex taking part of the moveset, it's something that was said by the guy in charge of envisioning the moveset in their presentation and a Famitsu column. Therefore it's a fact, and facts are not speculation.

 

[osby]

Interesting. One statement from one person is never definitive proof except seemingly when it comes to Masahiro Sakurai.

Local Smash fan is shocked to learn that the guy who makes the game has definite info about the game, more at 11.

 

[MasterCheef]

Sakurai is the one who makes Smash, therefore the stuff he says about Smash tends to be more reliable.

Fair Enough. Even though he was not the decision maker on how many DLC characters get added to SSBU.

Now Question

Do you all know Sakurai's Rules for playable character Smash inclusion?

1 character must have video game history

2 character must originate from a video game

3 Both Companies must want the character in the game

4 Second & Third party companies must be willing to allow Sakurai artistic license with their character

5 character must have unique smash gameplay mechanic

6 character must have personality to be shown in smash

7 Distribution among franchises is taken into consideration

8 Development ( time and difficulty ) is considered too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZpRzEWvUrQ

Youtuber unfortunately does not post sources in description

 

[volbound1700]

Local Smash fan is shocked to learn that the guy who makes the game has definite info about the game, more at 11.

I had to read over it several times but I think you misunderstood the post in question.

Fair Enough. Even though he was not the decision maker on how many DLC characters get added to SSBU.

Now Question

Do you all know Sakurai's Rules for playable character Smash inclusion?

1 character must have video game history

5 character must have unique smash gameplay mechanic

6 character must have personality to be shown in smash

History is very vague. We have received characters that are not very old in the DLC past (Byleth and Min Min ring a bell) and really are NOT that important or unique in the Video Game industry.

Characters have gotten in that do not have unique mechanics. For example, I don't find Mythra/Pyra to be that unique game play wise.

Personality is such a vague statement that it cannot really be taken seriously as a criteria. Every video game ever made arguably has a personality that fits Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No ****, Sherlock?

To be fair, we still had a small debate about whether or not this was the case a page or two ago.

 

[Guynamednelson]

To be fair, we still had a small debate about whether or not this was the case a page or two ago.

Sure, but I think it's best to just assume this IS the end after Sakurai keeps saying so. The only reason why it might not be the end is because Sakurai ain't gonna stop working, and even then he could be working on another game once CP11 is done.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

No ****, Sherlock?

With all the people believing in this New Zealand website stuff about an alleged bonus fighter, the reminder is very much necessary.

 

[volbound1700]

Sure, but I think it's best to just assume this IS the end after Sakurai keeps saying so. The only reason why it might not be the end is because Sakurai ain't gonna stop working, and even then he could be working on another game once CP11 is done.

As a STRETCH, I guess you could argue that Sakurai could add Characters outside of the DLC pact scenario (without music, stage, spirits, etc.). However, I agree with you. I am NOT banking on any new character after CP#11.

I think the additional content cited by Sakurai is game updates, spirit events, and online mods.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you guys think another Simon/Richter situation is still a possibility (the base character and echo being developed simultaneously) or is even that off the table now?

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

With all the people believing in this New Zealand website stuff about an alleged bonus fighter, the reminder is very much necessary.

It's probably gonna be a bonus costume or something for having all the DLC like idk Ball Guy or something lol.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Do you guys think another Simon/Richter situation is still a possibility (the base character and echo being developed simultaneously) or is even that off the table now?

Definitely off the table. We would have gotten echos earlier if it wasn't just one slot left.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Local Smash fan is shocked to learn that the guy who makes the game has definite info about the game, more at 11.

"And we're off to the comment section, let's see what the experts think!"

 

[Theguy123]

Just a reminder that the legacy xp theory still exists. What’s the legacy xp theory you may ask???

Legacy XP’s takedown was rumoured to be because one of the characters in the game that wasn’t already in smash at the time was interfering with the dlc. The only characters it could’ve been if this was legit was

Metal sonic
Geno
Shadow
Or Waluigi

Were down to the last character spot and sega still haven’t had any extra mii costumes in this pass yet whereas every company from pass 1 has had extra content.

They also held negotiations for FP2 and we don’t know the outcome of them.

Sakurai never addressed springman being an AT trophy in the arms presentation and even included him in the original arms announcement trailer and the arms reveal trailer itself.

Now it could all mean nothing or it could just of been for geno’s mii costume but right now the theory is still alive till that last character is announced.

PURELY speculation here. I just like having convos with people on here and talking about theories.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's probably gonna be a bonus costume or something for having all the DLC like idk Ball Guy or something lol.

The fact that the Japanese website has nothing of the sort makes me think that it's basically an Intern screwing up.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Just a reminder that the legacy xp theory still exists. What’s the legacy xp theory you may ask???

Legacy XP’s takedown was rumoured to be because one of the characters in the game that wasn’t already in smash at the time was interfering with the dlc. The only characters it could’ve been if this was legit was

Metal sonic
Geno
Shadow
Or Waluigi

Were down to the last character spot and sega still haven’t had any extra mii costumes in this pass yet whereas every company from pass 1 has had extra content.

They also held negotiations for FP2 and we don’t know the outcome of them.

Sakurai never addressed springman being an AT trophy in the arms presentation and even included him in the original arms announcement trailer and the arms reveal trailer itself.

Now it could all mean nothing or it could just of been for geno’s mii costume but right now the theory is still alive till that last character is announced.

PURELY speculation here. I just like having convos with people on here and talking about theories.

Mmh, the crutch of the theory is that there is a rhyme and reason to this specific Nintendo takedown, which falsely presupposes that Nintendo’s takedown policy isn’t random. For the sake of speculation, I think it’d point towards Waluigi if we assume that the Legacy XP theory is correct and that the takedown was because of a DLC character, but Shadow is possible too but I don‘t have any specific arguments for either aside from my gut feeling

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Just a reminder that the legacy xp theory still exists. What’s the legacy xp theory you may ask???

Legacy XP’s takedown was rumoured to be because one of the characters in the game that wasn’t already in smash at the time was interfering with the dlc. The only characters it could’ve been if this was legit was

Metal sonic
Geno
Shadow
Or Waluigi

Were down to the last character spot and sega still haven’t had any extra mii costumes in this pass yet whereas every company from pass 1 has had extra content.

They also held negotiations for FP2 and we don’t know the outcome of them.

Sakurai never addressed springman being an AT trophy in the arms presentation and even included him in the original arms announcement trailer and the arms reveal trailer itself.

Now it could all mean nothing or it could just of been for geno’s mii costume but right now the theory is still alive till that last character is announced.

PURELY speculation here. I just like having convos with people on here and talking about theories.

Who said it had to be about a character? It could have always been because of the Geno costume since a mod with a fully playable Geno can clash with the idea of selling a costume on an official game.

Suda51 had a NDA for a Travis Mii costume, so what's stopping Nintendo from C&Ding a mod because one of its characters is a costume they want to sell?

Or it's just Nintendo hating mods as usual.

 

[MasterCheef]

History is very vague. We have received characters that are not very old in the DLC past (Byleth and Min Min ring a bell) and really are NOT important or unique in the Video Game industry.

Characters have gotten in that do not have unique mechanics. For example, I don't find Mythra/Pyra to be that unique game play wise.

Personality is such a vague statement it cannot really be taken seriously as a criteria. Every video game ever made arguably has a personality that fits Smash.

I would like to make note Nintendo characters tend to be the exception.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Do you guys think another Simon/Richter situation is still a possibility (the base character and echo being developed simultaneously) or is even that off the table now?

Strongly doubt it. But I can see a 1/1000000 possibility that theres a big surprise in the works. Again, very strong doubt.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

With all the people believing in this New Zealand website stuff about an alleged bonus fighter, the reminder is very much necessary.

It's probably gonna be a bonus costume or something for having all the DLC like idk Ball Guy or something lol.

It could also be a three stage pack with music included, since there will be three empty stage spots after the pass ends

I hope one of them is an X stage with music and if we don’t get playable Octolings, maybe a MC. Princess Diaries stage with Octo Expansion music

 

[Jocario Zero]

I don’t really understand the reasoning to why people think a 2nd Microsoft rep would happen in this pass. It’s not a rule but there’s no way they’d put 2 reps from the same company in 1 pass. They just wouldn’t.

Why wouldn't they? What is stopping them to include another character from Microsoft or even Square Enix if the have the chance?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I would like to make note Nintendo characters tend to be the exception.

These guidelines were first mentioned in Sakurai’s 2008 GDC slides ISource) when only two third party characters made the roster. It’s highly unlikely that Sakurai would treat Nintendo characters as the exception to these rules in a time where first party characters are the vast majority of new additions.

 

[Theguy123]

Who said it had to be about a character? It could have always been because of the Geno costume since a mod with a fully playable Geno can clash with the idea of selling a costume on an official game.

Suda51 had a NDA for a Travis Mii costume, so what's stopping Nintendo from C&Ding a mod because one of its characters is a costume they want to sell?

Or it's just Nintendo hating mods as usual.

It doesn’t have to be a character, it could just be down to a mii costume and it could already of been true with the Geno mii which is why I was saying it was speculation and nothing confirmed. It’ll die out once the last character is revealed and we’ll have an potential idea if legacy XP’s takedown was down to the Geno mii or not.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm not really sure "they know how polular he is" is a good argument for Waluigi

Unlike what is possibly just vocal minority, Nintendo probably does know how ACTUALLY popular he is, via play stats from the Mario sports titles.

He did.
Ferry Corsten on The Hot Wind Blowing (フェリー・コース ...

Meh. That's not one of the good ones. They can skip it.

Because he would be "hype" and we all know Smash loves expensive finales.

...based on what?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do you guys think another Simon/Richter situation is still a possibility (the base character and echo being developed simultaneously) or is even that off the table now?

Doable? Pyra/Mythra prove it so.

Would they do it? I suspect not since you couldn't even technically call it 1 character, which would mean that the pack would have more content than the others. I'm not certain that that's a big deal, but...I dunno. It just kind of feels like something they'd want to avoid.

Definitely off the table. We would have gotten echos earlier if it wasn't just one slot left.

I don't think this is great reasoning. I mean, look at who we've got:

• Was probably a leftover from the base roster and wasn't apart of a pass anyway. Also what would even be its Echo Fighter? A Deku Boba?
• There seems to be evidence of another character being an Alternate Costume of him, but IIRC, said character wouldn't really have worked as one, and while Joker does currently have Echo Fighter potential, she didn't debut until after the character's release.
• With 4 Heroes reporting in, I think an Echo Fighter could potentially take the cool factor of this away, at least a bit.
• I actually don't know if this character has an Echo Fighter candidate.
• I suppose anyone from Fire Emblem: Three Houses could adopt Byleth's moveset since it's tailored to the game and not him specifically, but It wouldn't be a great fit for them since they aren't the avatar and their skill sets lead toward a specific weapon class rather than all of them. (Also you can't use the "they have a god" handwave to explain why they can wield all of the personal weapons like Byleth)
• Could maybe get away with Ninjara as an Echo Fighter, but his set of ARMS, lack of a reflect kick, and a poof shield would cause him to need some rebalancing. Still the most plausible though.
• Due to his reliance on the Devil Form, the closest characters to him would likely be semi-clones at best. Jin is possible, but it might be a disservice to him to have him be an Echo Fighter of Kazuya.
• / I don't think I need to explain these...

 

[Inferno7]

Just a reminder that the legacy xp theory still exists. What’s the legacy xp theory you may ask???

Legacy XP’s takedown was rumoured to be because one of the characters in the game that wasn’t already in smash at the time was interfering with the dlc. The only characters it could’ve been if this was legit was

Metal sonic
Geno
Shadow
Or Waluigi

Were down to the last character spot and sega still haven’t had any extra mii costumes in this pass yet whereas every company from pass 1 has had extra content.

They also held negotiations for FP2 and we don’t know the outcome of them.

Sakurai never addressed springman being an AT trophy in the arms presentation and even included him in the original arms announcement trailer and the arms reveal trailer itself.

Now it could all mean nothing or it could just of been for geno’s mii costume but right now the theory is still alive till that last character is announced.

PURELY speculation here. I just like having convos with people on here and talking about theories.

As someone who supports Shadow, I would never use a takedown as evidence

That's just Nintendo doing Nintendo things, they despise fan-made projects like mods and such

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wonder, could we have a bonus third party stage with only music and no playable character or no?

and would indies be safe? We have three indie Miis with music but I wonder about indie stages with music and no playable character

 

[PeridotGX]

time to finish up the fighter's pass!

Astral Chain gets a stage because it's a new series nintendo would want to promote, Floral Fury because of the cuphead Mii (it's not the cuphead stage I'd go with on my first choice, but the song kinda ties my hands), and Venus Lighthouse to try and appease fans after this somewhat controversial reveal.

Time to start Pass 2, featuring a slightly changed template!

This was easily the hardest pass to come up with stages for, simply because i had very little obvious stuff to go from. Salmon run is because of the Callie and Marie miis, Okami is because Capcom is generally playing nice and could feasibly get a stage, and ToWaD because Pokemon.

Astral Plane be looking cleeeeeeeean

are you gonna do bonus stages for pass 2 too? Cause I would love an X stage with Pyra/Mythra. I think Sylvalum would be the most unique biome wise

perhaps...

 

[Dukefire]

Just saying, out of all indies so far. Shantae was the one that lasted for so long.

She started with a spirit (along with Risky Boots) and an online icon at base game. Mii costume with Kazuya for DLC to end her run.

Now, IDK if any other Indie Characters are up for grabs since the character choice have been focused on the bigger ones. We will have to see once the final character's announcement is near.

 

[MasterCheef]

I wonder, could we have a bonus third party stage with only music and no playable character or no?

and would indies be safe? We have three indie Miis with music but I wonder about indie stages with music and no playable character

Indie stages would be fun if they bring a fun new stage hazard and are done well.

 

[volbound1700]

I wonder, could we have a bonus third party stage with only music and no playable character or no?

and would indies be safe? We have three indie Miis with music but I wonder about indie stages with music and no playable character

It is possible.

 

[FreeFox]

Doable? Pyra/Mythra prove it so.

Would they do it? I suspect not since you couldn't even technically call it 1 character, which would mean that the pack would have more content than the others. I'm not certain that that's a big deal, but...I dunno. It just kind of feels like something they'd want to avoid.


I don't think this is great reasoning. I mean, look at who we've got:

• I actually don't know if this character has an Echo Fighter candidate.

I suppose the closest char would be Rock Howard.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I would like to make note Nintendo characters tend to be the exception.

Nintendo characters have a hard time fitting into "rules" because there are more of them, not because they're somehow worthy of exceptions being made for them. 9 times out of 10 claims that "X is OK for 1st parties, but a barrier to entry to 3rd parties" is easily proven false with the characters we've got:

• History:
  • Bayonetta only has two games and is only 12 years old.
  • The Persona series itself may have quite a bit of history, but Joker's series is PERSONA 5 and some other games in the series also exist IDK.
• Unique Mechanics:
  • Simon and Richter pretty much just have standard projectiles and disjoints, with a particularly long Forward Smash.
  • By the time Sephiroth was added, comeback mechanics have long since stopped being a unique mechanic.
• Personality:
  • Mega Man was stripped of his personality in favor of being NES accurate.
  • Steve's only personality is what you project onto him due to his lack of personality.
  • If we're gonna get subjective, Ryu is about as vanilla as you can get.