Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GilTheGreat19]

Guys I think I found out who will be CP11

OMG, LETS GO I LOVE SOL

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Guys I think I found out who will be CP11

Judging by that face that says "I don't care", it seems like it sadly isn't him.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Time to compare Smash Ultimate FP2 characters to Smash 4 DLC. This is just for fun, don't take it seriously.

Min Min = SSB4 Corrin (1st party Nintendo franchise that focuses on large range with disjointed hitboxes)

Sephiroth = SSB4 Mewtwo (Villain who was genetically created in a laboratory, glass cannon playstyle with darkness attacks)

Pyra/Mythra = SSB4 Cloud (Overtuned sword character from a popular JRPG with big hitboxes, fast frame data and mobility but has a bad recovery as a weakness)

Kazuya Mishima = SSB4 Ryu (From what limited information we know, this is the closest connection)

??? = SSB4 Bayonetta (Popular fan request, character focuses on heavy combo game, maybe a hack/slash rep?)

This is how Dante wins

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ranking Newcomers again?

Most of this is a mix of actual gameplay and/or how much I wanted em. Kazuya could be really anywhere rn, but I'll just stick him right in the middle.

ULTIMATE (10)

SMASHING (9-8)

GOOD (7-6)

EH (5-4)

Overall, a really solid batch of fighters. Did the math, and l my overall average was about a 7/10. But in terms of satisfaction? About a 9 or 10.

Probably my favorite batch of newcomers throughout the Smash series, good mix of classic fan requests, rising stars, oddballs, rising stars, and the like. I think there's a little something for everyone here

 

[3BitSaurus]

We doing Hype counts for every game now?

Spoiler: Smash 64

Smash wouldn't be the same without... any of these, really, so the only question is how satisfied I am with how these movesets have held up over time.

S Tier:

A Tier:

B Tier:

Spoiler: Melee

A Tier:
All of them great additions imo. Though some movesets aged better than others.

B Tier:
I have a few complaints about how Mewtwo played in Melee and Icies are just a few steps below the rest. Dorf... well, I think a lot of people would know why hi moveset lands him here for me.

C Tier:
AKA - "the semiclones that to me were unnecessary"

Spoiler: Brawl

S Tier:
Real talk: Sonic might have been the first time Smash struck me with an 'unbelievable' addition - even if I have a lot of reservations about his playstyle. The others are all Nintendo characters I really liked.

A Tier:
Brawl's first party newcomers were a nice ensemble. Some old, some new, and a lot of different series and styles. Snake is here because... well, I didn't know too much about MG at the time, so it didn't hit me as hard as Sonic.

B Tier:
Some ideas they brought are nice, bu they just don't do it for me. Especially Toon Link, who at the time just felt like YL 2.0.

Spoiler: Sm4sh

S Tier:
Mega Man was my most wanted going into 4, so it was amazing to see him in. Cloud and Bayo were unexpeted, but welcome surprises.

A Tier:
My favorite first party newcomers, plus Ryu and Pac. Shulk and Pac are here and not in S because I love them, but I can't play them to save my life.

B Tier:
Some very welcome additions, even if not necessarily my favorites. Robin in particular was interesting to me because it felt like a fresh new take for a FE fighter, after Roy and Ike.

C Tier:
Not really for me. I have no strong opinions on them, though their inclusion makes sense.

D Tier:
AKA the character that is disliked even among the fandom, a (future) Echo with missed potential and the substitute for Chrom... who got in next game anyway.

Spoiler: Ultimate

S Tier:
The "welcome to the hype train" tier. Banjo and Kazooie inparticular were my MWs going into Ultimate, and it's amazing that they're in.

A Tier:
Awesome picks. Only reason Sephiroth is here and not in S is because there were other Square reps I was hoping for.

B Tier: /
Overall great additons. Wish it had been Spring Man and Rex instead of Min Min and P/M, but what can you do.

C:
Utimately no strong feeings on them, but I can respect their inclusion.

D:
The "I wish these had been done a bit differently" tier

E:
The "I wish it had been almost literally anyone else" tier

 

[Louie G.]

S TIER:

A TIER:

B TIER:

C TIER:

D TIER:

Spoiler: Explanation

Overall, while Ultimate (mostly DLC) hasn't done too much to cater to my personal interests, the roster has been really good. I should specify that even though certain characters fall on the lower end of things, there's only one addition that I genuinely did not like. And even then, I don't hold much of a grudge or anything - I'm just not interested in them at all. Doesn't do it for me in really any capacity.

K. Rool and Ridley are literal dreams come true and out of every character that has been added to Ultimate those are still the additions I feel the greatest ripples from. I've been advocating for those two for years alongside everyone else and that patience was rewarded in a glorious fashion. King K. Rool in particular is one of the most lovingly and satisfyingly crafted characters in the whole game, IMO. And Terry joins them in S-Tier for being such a wonderful surprise that did something I thought was literally impossible at this rate - introduce the community to something unfamiliar and have everyone LOVE it. It was an amazing thing to see and helped remind me why I love this series so much.

I don't feel like going into everyone individually but I'll touch on a few characters who I feel like I should elaborate on. Piranha Plant is incredibly goofy and fun and while I had no idea what to make of them at first, they're among some of my favorite characters to play now. Incineroar was a bit of a disappointment at first glance but won me over in no time by being one of the most charismatic and expressive characters in the game. Isabelle and Min Min are characters I wanted to see, so I still love that they're here, but they miss A-Tier by a bit because I'm not wholly satisfied with their implementation. Isabelle in particular feels unfortunately kind of half baked and I hope she can grow in the future. I also like the inclusion of Joker in theory, but I'm not amazed by his moveset or anything and in retrospect would have personally been happier with SMT content. Also, Arsene sucks.

I want to give a shoutout to the base roster in general, I think it's damn near perfect. New, obligatory icons like Inkling and Isabelle, fan favorites in Ridley and K. Rool that help longstanding veteran franchises feel complete, Simon ****ing Belmont who I always believed was the most notably absent third party character, and Incineroar who like I said before is just so insanely lovable and awesome. Like yeah, I'm sad Rhythm Heaven still hasn't happened, but those six characters were a very satisfying lineup that really helps everything afterwards feel like the sweet icing and cherry on top. I have more complicated feelings about the DLC but overall yeah, Ultimate has shaped up to be pretty great.

Also I'm not doing every single game but just for the record, Little Mac was my most wanted character ever.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

My thoughts on the Newcomers.

S:
My main and most wanted. I don’t think Ridley will ever be topped as my favorite reveal.

A:
I love seeing fighting game characters appear. So even though Kazyua isn’t out I know he’ll be an A Tier with Terry.

Steve is from my childhood favorite game and has a unique mechanic that I can’t help but love.

K Rool and Simon are just really cool and a great love letter to their home series. Love playing as them.

Sephiroth was a great surprise, plays great, and completely fixed FFs content drought in my eyes.
B:

Hero is fun to mess around with. Down B is one of the most satisfying things to hit when you get a good move.

I laughed myself to tears when Byleth was announced. It was cool seeing my friends get their most wanted character.

Joker is a fun character and was a great way to start DLC speculation.

Plant is definitely a candidate for the weirdest Smash pick ever. I love its playstyle and still chuckle a little when I admire the CSS.

C:

No real thoughts on these characters. They play fine and I don’t have any knowledge or interest in their series. Kinda weird how this is where most of the female newcomers are.

D:

I’m sorry Min Min. I just hate the way she plays and Arms is like the C Tier series in that I have no knowledge or interest in it.

Echo Tier List:

S:
I debated on whether I should even put him here because Sakurai himself said Ken might be cheating the Echo Label. Really cool differences from Ryu that make him a lot of fun to play. If I put him with the proper newcomers he’d be in B.

A:
Chrom is great. His differences from Roy make him a treat to play. Nice to see Chrom fans get their character after all.

I hate Dark Samus from a gameplay perspective. Shes just a slightly better Samus and doesn’t use any of her unique abilities. Still, she was one of my most wanted so I’m just glad to have her.

C:

Yeah there is no B tier, these guys are a very solid meh for me. They’re cool characters, but why don’t they have any gameplay differences? Its so boring, they might as well be alts with unique animations.

All Richter has is a different holy water element. Which affects some matchups a small bit. Thats it. So disappointing.

 

[Speed Weed]

This would be my list - not so much based on reactions at the time but moreso my feelings these days - though my answer differs slightly each time so whatever

The Based (TM)

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

pretty cool!

6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Yeah sure let's go

11.
12.
13. (I've warmed up to him a lot!)
14.
15.

Aight

16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

mmmmmm not a fan

21.
22.

 

[RoboFist]

B&K and Simon are the reasons why I legitimately didn't care who else got into the game. Everyone else has just been cherries on top.

Ridley was almost impossibly hype, Daisy was a dream come true that could've only been accomplished via Echoes, Plant is probably my favorite troll character Sakurai ever decided on, Inklings have such a fun and faithful moveset, and Steve made so many people butthurt that I can't help but respect.

DQ, ARMS, XC2, and even KoF all felt like they NEEDED to be represented in the ultimate Smash. Sephiroth killed so many of my SE most-wanteds, but he's too cool to be mad at.

I still hate Incineroar and I'm bitter how Chrom became an Echo when Alph, Dixie, Ms. Pac-Man, Octolings, Medusa, Zack, or any other hedgehog from Sonic didn't.

Really, I don't "dislike" any of the characters aside from the bottom two. The rest all feel like they have a very strong, very deserving place on the roster. 20 outta 22 is ridiculously solid.

 

[Inferno7]

Since everyone is ranking the newcomers one by one I'll do it too:

Sephiroth tier:Was one of my MWs before his inclusion. To put it simply, he's swag & badassery incarnated. Easily the highest point of DLC and Ultimate in general tbh.

God tier: ,/,Not gonna lie, it feels like FP2 has catered to me a lot. Even if these characters weren't on my wishlist they are still godly inclusions that I enjoy.

High tier: ,,,, Plenty of neat characters that are fun to play. Always imagined what it would be like to play as a generic enemy, Dark Samus or Ken, so it's great to see them here even if they weren't on my wishlist.

Mid tier:,,,,, Wasn't directly supporting them but they are kinda fun and I use them sometimes. Not familiar with most of their games so can't have a strong opinion on them.

Low/Meh tier: ,,,,, Don't really care about their inclusions tbh, to the point I even forget they got in the game in the first place. Not necessarily bad but half of them are kinda filler and did nothing for me, having unfun playstyles or not any redeemable qualities/saving grace aside from being ''deserving'' which is in itself, very debatable.

Isabelle tier: Never-ever personally cared about AC and even less about this shoehorned (and awkwardly pushed) character. Just like before, her only saving grace was being ''deserving'' of a spot, because damn, is her playstyle mad boring and unfun to fight against? It pretty much feels like they stopped mid-way into making her unique, and honestly I would've 100% preferred her to be an echo so an even cooler AT like Shadow, Zero or Bomberman could get in as a playable fighter with what little dev time they had left (seriously, why make half a moveset for Zero only to keep him as a glorified snow globe?).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

C:

Yeah there is no B tier, these guys are a very solid meh for me. They’re cool characters, but why don’t they have any gameplay differences? Its so boring, they might as well be alts with unique animations.

All Richter has is adifferent holy water element. Which affects some matchups a small bit. Thats it. So disappointing.

...I mean, that's a gameplay difference? So is having different animations that affect hurtboxes.

They're just not meaningful in most play. But saying they have none is misleading. They are just sucky differences which is very agreeable among most(if not all).

Don't get me wrong, it sure as hell feels like they're not different at all. Which is why it's so damn sucky. With items on, Richter and Simon have a different advantage. Daisy can't say that much. :/

I also agree with the point that the Toads are really strange on Daisy. Having the animations without them would've made more sense. Though honestly, she'd at most need a new Neutral B. Maybe just have something different from the Toad Shield entirely? Of course, you'd still have to make sure it flows with the moveset. Something like a Soccer Ball Kick would not mesh at all.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

...I mean, that's a gameplay difference? So is having different animations that affect hurtboxes.

They're just not meaningful in most play. But saying they have none is misleading. They are just sucky differences which is very agreeable among most(if not all).

Don't get me wrong, it sure as hell feels like they're not different at all. Which is why it's so damn sucky. With items on, Richter and Simon have a different advantage. Daisy can't say that much. :/

I also agree with the point that the Toads are really strange on Daisy. Having the animations without them would've made more sense. Though honestly, she'd at most need a new Neutral B. Maybe just have something different from the Toad Shield entirely? Of course, you'd still have to make sure it flows with the moveset. Something like a Soccer Ball Kick would not mesh at all.

Differences that aren’t notable and in most cases not noticeable is the same as no differences in my eyes. Though of course I recognize that isn’t the case for probably most people.

I think it’d be cool if Daisy’s down B gave items other than turnips, like Sports equipment that serves the same purpose but has different properties between them. Giving her a Neutral B without Toad is a good idea. What that would be I’m nor sure.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Differences that aren’t notable and in most cases not noticeable is the same as no differences in my eyes. Though of course I recognize that isn’t the case for probably most people.

I think it’d be cool if Daisy’s down B gave items other than turnips, like Sports equipment that serves the same purpose but has different properties between them. Giving her a Neutral B without Toad is a good idea. What that would be I’m nor sure.

When I say gameplay differences, I don't consider opinions to matter when it comes to facts. There's either differences or there's not. Basically, they do play differently. It's just that it won't matter almost ever. So yeah, effectively you can't tell the difference anyway.

Actually, this works well for Down B. If you have enough Sports Items besides the Soccer Ball(well, that item is weird, but she could still kick it immediately after being pulled out?), it works perfectly. Same gimmicky move, different effect.

 

[subterrestrial]

daisy deserved her own moveset

alph too

 

[ShrimpScampi]

These are my overall thoughts on the newcomers, based on how much I personally enjoyed them and their inclusion:

S Tier:
Joker would've been one of my most wanted characters if I had at all thought he was possible before he was announced, so his reveal was a HUGE pleasant surprise. His playstyle is fun and stylish, and his challenger pack has a lot of fantastic content.

While Byleth was one of those "would be cool" characters I wasn't actively pushing for before they got in, when I actually sat down and picked them up, their moveset clicked with me in a way no Smash character has before. Their combo game is surprising for how slow they are, and the shenanigans you can pull with their up B alone are a blast to do. The Three Houses tracks we got were great too.

A Tier:
Serphiroth, Pyra/Mythra, and the Belmonts (EDIT: and Ridley — whoops) were also in the same "would be cool" area as Byleth in terms of how much I wanted them beforehand. Their playstyles are all pretty fun, though -- Sephy in particular is an explosive character with how light yet powerful he is. I was less thrilled about Hero at first, but he's such a wacky ball of laughs that he grew on me quickly. Terry blindsided me, as I haven't played much KoF or Fatal Fury, but his pack had a lot of charm, a phenomenal stage, and 50 friggin music tracks.

B Tier:
Most of these are in the realm of “their inclusion got me pretty hype, and while their playstyle doesn’t super mesh with me, they’re still fun to play”. Chrom is a little more mixed — I like the character and his playstyle, and in a vacuum he’s cool. I just think he and Corrin contribute a lot to the feeling of FE being bloated, which led to such a mixed reaction for Byleth.

C Tier:
Kazuya’s here just based on my reveal reaction. I hope he wows me with his gameplay, but we’ll see. These are characters where I can appreciate why they’re in, but they just aren’t for me. Which is fine, the entire roster doesn’t need to cater to me lol

D Tier:
This tier just has Daisy and Isabelle, since I wouldn’t really care if they were removed tbh. Daisy’s basically identical to Peach (same with Dark Samus & Richter, but they’re cool and I still like the movesets they copied). I’ve always found Isabelle awkward to use and obnoxious to deal with, and I don’t care much about Animal Crossing tbh

 

[Technomage]

...I mean, that's a gameplay difference? So is having different animations that affect hurtboxes.

Yeah, but the problem is they don't have enough differences from their derivatives to have a different playstyle outline. As a comparison, look at Marth and Lucina during Smash 4: Their differences may be small (Lucina having no tipper), but they were enough to give them different playstyle outlines.

 

[Idon]

Good lord the last 10 pages have been nothing but newcomer tier list rankings.

 

[Technomage]

Good lord the last 10 pages have been nothing but newcomer tier list rankings.

IKR? It's lasted a looooooooooooooooooong time.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

These are my overall thoughts on the newcomers, based on how much I personally enjoyed them and their inclusion:

View attachment 320279

S Tier:
Joker would've been one of my most wanted characters if I had at all thought he was possible before he was announced, so his reveal was a HUGE pleasant surprise. His playstyle is fun and stylish, and his challenger pack has a lot of fantastic content.

While Byleth was one of those "would be cool" characters I wasn't actively pushing for before they got in, when I actually sat down and picked them up, their moveset clicked with me in a way no Smash character has before. Their combo game is surprising for how slow they are, and the shenanigans you can pull with their up B alone are a blast to do. The Three Houses tracks we got were great too.

A Tier:
Serphiroth, Pyra/Mythra, and the Belmonts were also in the same "would be cool" area as Byleth in terms of how much I wanted them beforehand. Their playstyles are all pretty fun, though -- Sephy in particular is an explosive character with how light yet powerful he is. I was less thrilled about Hero at first, but he's such a wacky ball of laughs that he grew on me quickly. Terry blindsided me, as I haven't played much KoF or Fatal Fury, but his pack had a lot of charm, a phenomenal stage, and 50 friggin music tracks.

B Tier:
Most of these are in the realm of “their inclusion got me pretty hype, and while their playstyle doesn’t super mesh with me, they’re still fun to play”. Chrom is a little more mixed — I like the character and his playstyle, and in a vacuum he’s cool. I just think he and Corrin contribute a lot to the feeling of FE being bloated, which led to such a mixed reaction for Byleth.

C Tier:
Kazuya’s here just based on my reveal reaction. I hope he wows me with his gameplay, but we’ll see. These are characters where I can appreciate why they’re in, but they just aren’t for me. Which is fine, the entire roster doesn’t need to cater to me lol

D Tier:
This tier just has Daisy and Isabelle, since I wouldn’t really care if they were removed tbh. Daisy’s basically identical to Peach (same with Dark Samus & Richter, but they’re cool and I still like the movesets they copied). I’ve always found Isabelle awkward to use and obnoxious to deal with, and I don’t care much about Animal Crossing tbh

Am Sad

 

[ShrimpScampi]

View attachment 320281
Am Sad

DANG IT I KNEW I FORGOT SOMEONE

Ridley is A-tier for me, I’ll edit the original

 

[JamesDNaux]

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:

Why is the Mythra icon such garbled quality?

 

[BlondeLombax]

I can’t pick favorites for the roster this time, so I’ll just ask a quick question. There have been tons of characters people have considered locks, like Crash, Geno, Sora, and Hayabusa, but for all we know, were they ever on the table to begin with? This late into the cycle, I highly doubt the likes of them were ever on the dev team’s radar.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, but the problem is they don't have enough differences from their derivatives to have a different playstyle outline. As a comparison, look at Marth and Lucina during Smash 4: Their differences may be small (Lucina having no tipper), but they were enough to give them different playstyle outlines.

I never said otherwise. I just said factually it's a gameplay difference.

That's a whole different point to make. It's clear I misread the intention/way the wording was used. Sorry about that. I honestly was looking at its meaning, not that they were basically saying playstyle differences instead. Nonetheless, my bad.

 

[SKX31]

When I say gameplay differences, I don't consider opinions to matter when it comes to facts. There's either differences or there's not. Basically, they do play differently. It's just that it won't matter almost ever. So yeah, effectively you can't tell the difference anyway.

That... could've been worded better if I may be so blunt. The differences in idle stances is minute and requires one to be at a standstill - it has no effect on how she plays when running, jumping, floating etc. Now Daisy has a wider hurtbox when she runs / turns (insert thicc joke here), but it too doesn't make much if any practical difference either. While I get what you're saying, it's still such a minor difference it won't matter most of the time.

As a comparision / contrast: Pit / Dark Pit have different arrows (Pits' are more manueverable and last longer, Dark Pits' hit harder and KO more effectively due to launch angle) so there's a more clear gameplay difference that will show whether in casual or competitive environments.

As for how I'd rank the DLC newcomers in terms of how they play:

"How the hell" tier does not mean they're not fun, it's just that it's been really bloody difficult for me personally to get a grip. Plant is a case in point since its movement has felt pretty janky (then again, I'm used to fast swordusers like Cloud, so there's that) and Ptooie / Poison Cloud have felt a bit unwieldy. Also its normals are... shorter than I thought.

I can’t pick favorites for the roster this time, so I’ll just ask a quick question. There have been tons of characters people have considered locks, like Crash, Geno, Sora, and Hayabusa, but for all we know, were they ever on the table to begin with? This late into the cycle, I highly doubt the likes of them were ever on the dev team’s radar.

I'm pretty sure they were on the radar when the Smash team asked Xander to record all sorts of character names like Altaïr. The issue is the limited character slots and what Sakurai / Nintendo can feel comfortable negotiating for. There's also the possibility that some negotiations fell through for one reason or another.

 

[AreJay25]

well everyone else is doing it so might as well

in no particular order
The Hype Incarnate:
Pretty freakin' sweet:
Alright, that's cool:
Indifference:
... yeah, not for me:

I guess I'll discuss my top picks a little bit.

Spoiler

Ryu was one of my absolute favorite additions in Smash 4 and I love the fighting game genre, so getting three more FG characters that are super faithful to their source material made me incredibly happy. Sephiroth was the pipe dream pick that somehow became a reality and his reveal was mind blowing for me, especially with how little FF7 content we got beforehand. Incineroar is one of my favorite starters in general so of course I was stoked to see him (... just wish he was competitively viable lol). Seeing K. Rool finally make his grand return after such a long hiatus was awesome (... I also wish he was competitively viable lol).

I would have personally preferred Bomberman over the Belmonts, but I still like Castlevania so I was pretty happy regardless. Richter getting in as an Echo was also pretty damn cool, though it comes with the caveat of him barely having any gameplay differences. Dragon Quest is a franchise I only had cursory knowledge of prior to the reveal (thanks Toriyama), but I think the character was executed very well and it even made me want to give the series a shot. ARMS getting in through DLC was certainly surprising, and Min Min was my favorite out of its cast, so even if I despise fighting her it's pretty neat that she's there. Inkling was the most obvious pick ever but a very good one nonetheless. Ridley was a character I pretty much gave up on after Smash 4, so I wouldn't say I was as enthused about him going into things as other people, but seeing him finally break the "too big" rule was definitely exciting and a good payoff to years and years of discourse.

Overall, I think this game's lineup is pretty great, even if some of the picks didn't entirely land for me. I haven't exactly gotten my big dream picks yet, but I did get some characters I was asking for and even some pleasant surprises so I'm not gonna complain too much.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Wow, it's cool that we finally get to have Mario, Sonic, and Pac-Man in the same game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That... seems like a strange way of saying it. The differences in idle stances is minute and requires one to be at a standstill - it has no effect on how she plays when running, jumping, floating etc. Now Daisy has a wider hurtbox when she runs / turns (insert thicc joke here), but it too doesn't make much if any practical difference either.

Pit / Dark Pit have different arrows (Pits' are more manueverable and can hit more angles, Dark Pits' hit harder and are slightly faster IIRC) so there's a more clear gameplay difference that will show whether in casual or competitive environments.

It's not strange at all. Gamplay Differences, to me, is "Data" itself. I was using that definition to discuss it.

People were using it to directly mean Gameplay Style Differences, so I misread it.

So whether the differences are minute or not, the data doesn't lie. They have to have a physical data difference to be an Echo in the first place. No matter how minute. In practice? Absolute crap in the terms of gameplay styles.

As I said earlier, I misread what was meant due to using a term that can be defined in more than one way. I get what they mean now. So we're both right, basically. Just in different ways.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

One thing I was thinking about is that a "big" character right now for last is not too out there. Given that Tekken, Final Fantasy, and Minecraft are huge, it would not be that weird if we got one last big third party. While I would not go so far as to say I expect a big third party for last, I am not nearly as much of a doomer for Crash as I was last week.

Also so this is not too off topic, here are my newcomer rankings, not ordered:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Alright, that's cool:

Wow, it's cool that we finally get to have Mario, Sonic, and Pac-Man in the same game.

Oh boy. Another team about to make a better Sonic game than Sonic Team.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Oh boy. Another team about to make a better Sonic game than Sonic Team.

It references Chao Garden, that's enough for me.

 

[7NATOR]

My Newcomer Tier list is pretty Simple I would say

Most Wanted Tier:

Very Ultimate Additions:

Have had alot of fun with them:

Pyra/Mythra:

Minecraft:

Sephiroth is the first character they added that made me Super Excited and pop out of my seat (that wasn't a Mii Costume), and He's the Most fun Newcomer for me too.. Kazuya is the 2nd character to make me pop off, as Kazuya is one of the characters I mainly play when I play Tekken. I'm unsure completely on how Kazuya is gonna turn out since he's not out yet, but I'm gonna try to play him as much as I can.

Majority of the other Newcomers I'm fine with, and enjoy playing with them from time from time. I've played Ridley, K.Rool, and Hero the most from this tier. Right now I'm dabbling the most in Daisy and Inkling. I wished I knew how to play Ken better. I don't hate any of the newcomers in this game

Pyra/Mythra should be characters I should play alot, but I think after like the first day they felt too braindead to play. I prefer playing Pyra out of the 2. I still Kind of like to play them, and maybe if I played them more I put them a tier higher

Minecraft I think may be my least favorite DLC to play as as of right now. They just feel weird to play. I think If I played them more they might click and they have interesting tools. I also like using Minecart and Forward Smash

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of Minecraft

So Sonic x Minecraft coming out today apparently. Besides actually making me consider picking up a copy of Minecraft, one thing to notice is that Sonic as a franchise really celebrating that Anniversary

I only say this because when talking about Sega getting another character in FP2, I think some people do forget that Sega is pushing Sonic as a brand this year especially. You got people talking about Sega pushing the Shin Megami Tensi, the Super Monkey Ball, and even PS02 on Rare occasions. whether you feel those franchise would get in over another Sonic character is up to you

But just realize that Sega also pushing Sonic too. Nintendo also knows this also. Don't downplay Sonic as a franchise, it's very Iconic franchise and if another Sonic character got in, it probably would be the most recognizable character in the DLC Besides Steve

 

[Louie G.]

I can’t pick favorites for the roster this time, so I’ll just ask a quick question. There have been tons of characters people have considered locks, like Crash, Geno, Sora, and Hayabusa, but for all we know, were they ever on the table to begin with? This late into the cycle, I highly doubt the likes of them were ever on the dev team’s radar.

This is a loaded topic since we'll never really know, but I will say I am very very confident that the prospect of giving Koei Tecmo a character was discussed at any point in time throughout the DLC cycle. "On the table" doesn't necessarily mean they got very far with it, so those discussions could have been brief but I would be shocked if Nintendo brought up potential partners to collaborate with and never thought about probably their single closest ally over the last few years.

I also have a hunch that certain costumes - Lloyd / Heihachi / Geno / Monster Hunter - were held back because those characters were under heavy consideration at some point. But for one reason or another they were all skipped on, and in the case of Heihachi outpriorized by Kazuya. Monster Hunter is a bit shaky because they could have just held them back for Rise, but honestly out of every candidate we've discussed I think I'm MOST certain that Monster Hunter was talked about as far back as base game.

 

[SNEKeater]

Yeah I could imagine Nintendo considering a Koei Tecmo character, even if only for a brief moment.

Sora, according to Imran Khan, was not only considered but Nintendo talked with Disney but negotiations for one reason or another fell through. Though we don't know if that was for Smash 4 or Ultimate.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To save us from ranking hell...

I like Isabelle a lot. I think she's super fun and has a fun trapper playstyle.

I see her on the lower end of a lot of lists. Why is that?

Do you just not like Isabelle as a character? Do you not like her moveset? Do you not like the fact that she is a semi clone? What's the reason?

 

[Perkilator]

Sora, according to Imran Khan, was not only considered but Nintendo talked with Disney but negotiations for one reason or another fell through. Though we don't know if that was for Smash 4 or Ultimate.

That was only speculation. I don't know how many times I have to make that correction, especially when someone takes it at face value.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

This is a loaded topic since we'll never really know, but I will say I am very very confident that the prospect of giving Koei Tecmo a character was discussed at any point in time throughout the DLC cycle. "On the table" doesn't necessarily mean they got very far with it, so those discussions could have been brief but I would be shocked if Nintendo brought up potential partners to collaborate with and never thought about probably their single closest ally over the last few years.

I also have a hunch that certain costumes - Lloyd / Heihachi / Geno / Monster Hunter - were held back because those characters were under heavy consideration at some point. But for one reason or another they were all skipped on, and in the case of Heihachi outpriorized by Kazuya. Monster Hunter is a bit shaky because they could have just held them back for Rise, but honestly out of every candidate we've discussed I think I'm MOST certain that Monster Hunter was talked about as far back as base game.

Cries in Gil

poor dude never stood a chance

 

[ZelDan]

To save us from ranking hell...

I like Isabelle a lot. I think she's super fun and has a fun trapper playstyle.

I see her on the lower end of a lot of lists. Why is that?

Do you just not like Isabelle as a character? Do you not like her moveset? Do you not like the fact that she is a semi clone? What's the reason?

For me, I just never played any of the Animal Crossing games, so I have no real connection to her.

 

[Louie G.]

I like Isabelle a lot. I think she's super fun and has a fun trapper playstyle.

I see her on the lower end of a lot of lists. Why is that?

Do you just not like Isabelle as a character? Do you not like her moveset? Do you not like the fact that she is a semi clone? What's the reason?

I've met a lot of people who don't particularly like Isabelle, many of which seem to just not like Animal Crossing very much or in some cases resent that she took the mascot role from Tom Nook. Or find her personality annoying, perhaps oversaturation played a part in all of this. Maybe they convinced themselves she would be an echo and were upset that she took a full character "slot"? Although personally I like Isabelle a lot so none of this applies to me at all.

I put her in B-Tier which is definitely not low, but I find myself very dissatisfied with her portrayal in Smash. I think they had good ideas in mind, but it feels like they gave up halfway through in making Isabelle a semiclone whose unique moves are fun but don't feel particularly cohesive with the rest of the usual Villager kit that she still maintains. Certain attacks like Up Smash or Side Smash feel unnecessarily difficult to land - especially when several swordies have a similarly vertical Up Smash that can sourspot on the sides - with no real significant power behind them to justify it. And to top it all off, Isabelle doesn't even have a voice for some reason. One of the most iconic aspects of her character is actively missing and it makes her feel sort of empty.

All in all I'm still happy Isabelle is here and consider her one of two characters who were absolutely necessary in Ultimate (the other being Inkling). I knew she was coming and I wanted to see her, I also knew from the start she would be an original character because she just felt too important to be regulated to last minute echo status. Still though, as much as I like Isabelle as a character, I'm disappointed that I don't like playing her as much as I wanted to.

 

[Technomage]

To save us from ranking hell...

I like Isabelle a lot. I think she's super fun and has a fun trapper playstyle.

I see her on the lower end of a lot of lists. Why is that?

Do you just not like Isabelle as a character? Do you not like her moveset? Do you not like the fact that she is a semi clone? What's the reason?

Maybe they don't like playing against Izzy? I do hear plenty of people complain about her Fishing Rod and calling it cheap.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

To save us from ranking hell...

I like Isabelle a lot. I think she's super fun and has a fun trapper playstyle.

I see her on the lower end of a lot of lists. Why is that?

Do you just not like Isabelle as a character? Do you not like her moveset? Do you not like the fact that she is a semi clone? What's the reason?

If I had to guess, its because of how lowkey she is.

Animal Crossing isn’t exactly the most bombastic game, so not many people were looking at Isabelle and saying “I wanna beat up Ganondorf as her!”

Her Moveset isn’t the most unique, her being a semi clone and all.

She came from Animal Crossing, an already represented series. So the crossover aspect of Smash wasn’t being pushed much farther.

She wasn’t a character that was being requested forever.

Overall, she just wasn’t the most hype addition in some peoples eyes.

Thats not to say she was a bad inclusion, I know I’ve had my fair share of fun with her.