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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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MooMew64

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Same, but not only for our Smash reveal but for E3 in general.
I'm one of those that thinks that feeling excited when E3 is around the corner is totally okay, like, I'm not even saying we should have super high expectations. Just be kinda happy and excited. If E3 ends being bad or disapponting that's okay, I'm not going to die and I'd rather have some hopes instead of being very gloomy about it when watching the E3 presentations.

If I get some cool announcements that appeal to me, cool, that would be great for me. If not, at least I had a good time because I like videogames en general, and it's also cool to see other people excited for games or announcements that might not be for me.

So for Smash I just want to see who is next. As long as the character brings something cool I'm completely okay with it. If I'm lucky and I get one of my MWs I'll be very happy, if not... I'll also be excited because for me a new Smash character is always great.

Basically, I feel like it's cool to be hopeful and excited about E3/Smash news. It's a nice feeling. Just don't exaggeratedly overhype yourself or be super invested on it because if you end not getting what you desire you're probably going to act very pissed about it and end ruining the fun for other people.
I also wanna see what Sqaure's got cookin' for FFXVI. It looks super promising, I absolutely adore going back to the more traditional fantasy setting.

And for Smash, I also wanna see Mii costumes. I love those things and the creativity people have when usin' them, lol.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I think the combination of the delays/absences caused by the pandemic and Nintendo typically being fairly dry with games in the first half of the year has this E3 feeling more significant than ever, even if I'm trying to keep my expectations in check about what they'll realistically show off.

Just getting a road map for the rest of the year will be nice, especially given how many IP's are in an unknown status right now.
 

N3ON

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That's hilarious, I've always used this as a point to how big the reveal was.

Doesn't diminish the reveal at all, mind you, but it's still super funny to me how often I cited this as being an example. :p
Yeah, I'm not going to contest Steve is a popular character. The reactors just reacted the way they did because over a certain age Steve in Smash is a lot less likely to appeal to someone, and most of those reactors were above that age.

And he's in now but let's also not forget that he was never a character everyone was on board with. If you're going to film a reaction you can't respond too negatively or people will hold it against you.
 

Lyncario

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I'm trying to make my own bingo for Nintendo's E3 presentation, but I don't know which site I should use to do so. Any recomendation?
 

GoodGrief741

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This might be weird from someone on a Smash forum but Smash isn't anywhere close to being the thing I'm most excited for at E3.

I just love the atmosphere. The feeling that so much cool stuff is gonna get revealed, all at once. I watch all the big presentations, even the ones like EA where I know they'll be super lame because E3 disappointments are just as fun as the good stuff. Not even in a schadenfreude way, but in the sense that there are missteps in trying to pull off something as ambitious as E3 and that it makes the good presentations stand out so much more.

While there are a few things that I'll miss (no EA trying to sell FIFA to a crowd of nerds, no hilarious moments like Bethesda's overly excited crowd last E3), the fact that there's more companies than ever giving presentations gets me excited because there's a lot more potential, for both good and bad stuff.
 

UserKev

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Nintendo seems content to keep him where moles usually dwell: six feet under.
Way to roast one of my most wanted first parties there bro.

I never thought I'd see the day 2 completely different arguments about 2 radically different characters were being presented as being The Same Actually
Eh. Not to start any flame wars or anything Gwen, but must you always come off as a superior smart a**? If we were all like you, you'd probably... never mind.
 

DarthEnderX

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Speaking of Reimu

Guess I'm officially a Touhou fan now, this looks godlike
Touhou has had metrovania games for awhile now.

I know cause it's characters were in the Castlevania Fighter fangame.

Dragon Slayer is another possible Falcom franchise that could get a playable rep. Falcom was BIG and did revolutionize RPGs and PC gaming, as early as 1981. Dragon Slayer 2 (shown above) was the best selling PC game ever from its release year, 1985, through the rest of the 80s.
Ys is another series they could go after. Been around since '87.
Regarind specific characters, besides the Dragon Slayer protagonist, Adol, and Mean, Estelle Bright is up there.

She's the main character of another big Falcom series, Legend of Heroes, and we don't have a staff user yet, let alone a female one 0_0
Technically, Estelle IS a Dragon Slayer character, as Dragon Slayer 6 was the first Legend of Heroes game.
 
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SpectreJordan

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This might be weird from someone on a Smash forum but Smash isn't anywhere close to being the thing I'm most excited for at E3.

I just love the atmosphere. The feeling that so much cool stuff is gonna get revealed, all at once. I watch all the big presentations, even the ones like EA where I know they'll be super lame because E3 disappointments are just as fun as the good stuff. Not even in a schadenfreude way, but in the sense that there are missteps in trying to pull off something as ambitious as E3 and that it makes the good presentations stand out so much more.

While there are a few things that I'll miss (no EA trying to sell FIFA to a crowd of nerds, no hilarious moments like Bethesda's overly excited crowd last E3), the fact that there's more companies than ever giving presentations gets me excited because there's a lot more potential, for both good and bad stuff.
You’re a strong person if you can stomach sitting through EA’s stuff. I’ll never watch one of their presentations again unless they specifically go “This will only be Mass Effect, Star Wars, Dragon Age & Plants vs Zombies”.

But I do love watching most E3 presentations. I always take time off from work & group watch them with friends. If they’re hype then I get to share those memories with my friends, if they suck well then we get some material to laugh at lol
 

DuskFleur

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I am once again praying for Sora in Smash. But I won’t go insane or be super upset if he doesn’t make the cut. While Sora has been in a few things outside of KH before, specifically in some FF spin-offs, the biggest obstacle for his inclusion is still going to be Disney, so it’d be totally understandable if he doesn’t get in. But hey, I voted for Bayonetta way back in the Smash 4 days, and I metaphorically **** my pants when she was officially the winner of the Ballot, so maybe lightning can strike twice for me. Maybe.

I wonder how a Sora reveal trailer would go, hypothetically speaking. I’d definitely want a scene with him, Cloud, and/or Sephiroth; maybe have Sora cheekily say that Smash is where they went to fight their great battle during KH2.

Oh, by the way, do you guys think that we’ll get a double Smash reveal like with Hero and Banjo-Kazooie; one at the beginning of the Nintendo presentation and one at the end? Or do you think we’ll just get one, thanks to the pandemic?
 

Technomage

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Oh, by the way, do you guys think that we’ll get a double Smash reveal like with Hero and Banjo-Kazooie; one at the beginning of the Nintendo presentation and one at the end? Or do you think we’ll just get one, thanks to the pandemic?
There's a decent chance we'll get a double reveal, since not only are the devs now working on just two characters instead of three simultaneously like they used to, but Sakurai also stated that we have to wait a bit longer than usual for CP10.

Also, it's against the rules to double post.
 
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N3ON

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Oh, by the way, do you guys think that we’ll get a double Smash reveal like with Hero and Banjo-Kazooie; one at the beginning of the Nintendo presentation and one at the end? Or do you think we’ll just get one, thanks to the pandemic?
Both outcomes are possible, but if we only get one I don't think it would be owing to the pandemic - just that we're nearing the end of the line, and if FP11 doesn't release until after when they'd have a September Direct, they could just reveal it there instead.

The Hero/Banjo reveal had the luxury of being able to happen while still providing a newcomer reveal in Sept, while this one can't replicate that, so they might just opt to hold FP11. Or not, it really could go either way.

But I think the pandemic is done affecting Smash reveals and releases. I think they've been back on track for a while now.
 

venomthebest

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Can we all agree that whatever character gets revealed at E3 will most probably have a full cgi trailer like sephiroth?
 

GoodGrief741

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You’re a strong person if you can stomach sitting through EA’s stuff. I’ll never watch one of their presentations again unless they specifically go “This will only be Mass Effect, Star Wars, Dragon Age & Plants vs Zombies”.

But I do love watching most E3 presentations. I always take time off from work & group watch them with friends. If they’re hype then I get to share those memories with my friends, if they suck well then we get some material to laugh at lol
It's not for everyone but to me E3 isn't complete without a soccer-related skit landing to zero laughs.
 

SKX31

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While there are a few things that I'll miss (no EA trying to sell FIFA to a crowd of nerds, no hilarious moments like Bethesda's overly excited crowd last E3), the fact that there's more companies than ever giving presentations gets me excited because there's a lot more potential, for both good and bad stuff.
You’re a strong person if you can stomach sitting through EA’s stuff. I’ll never watch one of their presentations again unless they specifically go “This will only be Mass Effect, Star Wars, Dragon Age & Plants vs Zombies”.

But I do love watching most E3 presentations. I always take time off from work & group watch them with friends. If they’re hype then I get to share those memories with my friends, if they suck well then we get some material to laugh at lol
Personally I always got the impression that the FIFA / other EA Sports trailers were always intended towards the more casual E3 viewer - after all, they've always banked on FIFA and Madden topping the charts each September thanks to little competition and placing itself as the "Realistic sport game to play" (which will always have its appeal), a lot of people forgetting / not minding that a lot of improvements and "improvements" actually were advertised a couple+ years back*, and (at least since they introduced Ultimate Team) just going gung-ho with that mode since it's the mode that brings in the microtransactions $.

Oh and the licensing is a major cornerstone for EA Sports: to the point where they signed an exclusivity deal with the NFL. They've always banked on the star power for endorsement. When Konami's PES started to get more team licenses - such as the Italian team Juventus - EA Sports just dropped the Juventus name and went with a fictional name (retaining the players IIRC). Still, the fact that FIFA 21 boasts 30 leagues and >700 clubs is not to be underestimated.

Anyhow, I'm assuming that EA Sports stopped at E3 because they don't really need to at this point. They can just go with the yearly releases and still rake in because the audiences for FIFA, Madden and (to a lesser but still noticeable extent) NHL are pretty damn big, and there are a lot of valid reasons to buy those games outside of Ultimate Team (even if the quality's come under increasing scrutiny, at least amongst hardcore FIFA fans).

*This is not to say all improvements are just old ones re-skinned, but it's saying a lot about the model when a lot of them are. The Switch version is especially painful when it comes to this, and I'm starting to suspect that the dev teams are severely overstretched.

Oh, by the way, do you guys think that we’ll get a double Smash reveal like with Hero and Banjo-Kazooie; one at the beginning of the Nintendo presentation and one at the end? Or do you think we’ll just get one, thanks to the pandemic?
It's possible that it will be two, but I'm not entirely certain on how likely it is. While we're talking about the last two characters and a really big conference, it's also possible that Nintendo might wanna hold onto CP11 until a later date (when it's ready that is and they've recorded Sakurai's final Presents, for example). Not neccessarily because of the pandemic.

I'm taking a gander and say that the odds are 40 / 60 in favor of just one reveal.
 
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Dinoman96

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I mean, literally no DLC Fighter in Smash Ultimate did not have a full CGI in the literal mean of it.
So. Yes?
to be fair, Hero, Banjo-Kazooie and Sephiroth are the only DLC characters thus far with full blown CGI trailers provided by Digital Frontier.

Joker just had hand-drawn animation for his original reveal. Terry's was basically one big sprite edit. Byleth's was done by the CG crew who did Three Houses instead of the usual DF. Min Min's was stylized, a weird mixture of 2D and 3D. And Pyra/Mythra's were entirely outsourced to Monolith, who just used the in-game models for everyone in the CG segments.

Technically, Steve had Digital Frontier CG in his trailer too, but only for basically one scene, right before the gameplay montage started.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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Oh, by the way, do you guys think that we’ll get a double Smash reveal like with Hero and Banjo-Kazooie; one at the beginning of the Nintendo presentation and one at the end? Or do you think we’ll just get one, thanks to the pandemic?
I'm more inclined to believe we're in for a dual reveal. It's always been tradition for any E3 that has Smash in it to have more than one character. E3 2013 had :ultvillager::ultmegaman::ultwiifittrainer:, E3 2014 had:ultpalutena::ultmiifighters::ultpacman:, E3 2018 had :ultdaisy::ultridley:, and E3 2019 had:ulthero::ultbanjokazooie:. But then again, rules can break, just like any other fanrule the Smash fandom comes up with.
 
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Noipoi

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to be fair, Hero, Banjo-Kazooie and Sephiroth are the only DLC characters thus far with full blown CGI trailers provided by Digital Frontier.

Joker just had hand-drawn animation for his original reveal. Terry's was basically one big sprite edit. Byleth's was done by the CG crew who did Three Houses instead of the usual DF. Min Min's was stylized, a weird mixture of 2D and 3D. And Pyra/Mythra's were entirely outsourced to Monolith, who just used the in-game models for everyone in the CG segments.

Technically, Steve had Digital Frontier CG in his trailer too, but only for basically one scene, right before the gameplay montage started.
Edit: nevermind I can’t read
 
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GoodGrief741

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Personally I always got the impression that the FIFA / other EA Sports trailers were always intended towards the more casual E3 viewer - after all, they've always banked on FIFA and Madden topping the charts each September thanks to little competition and placing itself as the "Realistic sport game to play" (which will always have its appeal), a lot of people forgetting / not minding that a lot of improvements and "improvements" actually were advertised a couple+ years back*, and (at least since they introduced Ultimate Team) just going gung-ho with that mode since it's the mode that brings in the microtransactions $.

Oh and the licensing is a major cornerstone for EA Sports: to the point where they signed an exclusivity deal with the NFL. They've always banked on the star power for endorsement. When Konami's PES started to get more team licenses - such as the Italian team Juventus - EA Sports just dropped the Juventus name and went with a fictional name (retaining the players IIRC). Still, the fact that FIFA 21 boasts 30 leagues and >700 clubs is not to be underestimated.

Anyhow, I'm assuming that EA Sports stopped at E3 because they don't really need to at this point. They can just go with the yearly releases and still rake in because the audiences for FIFA, Madden and (to a lesser but still noticeable extent) NHL are pretty damn big, and there are a lot of valid reasons to buy those games outside of Ultimate Team (even if the quality's come under increasing scrutiny, at least amongst hardcore FIFA fans).

*This is not to say all improvements are just old ones re-skinned, but it's saying a lot about the model when a lot of them are. The Switch version is especially painful when it comes to this, and I'm starting to suspect that the dev teams are severely overstretched.



It's possible that it will be two, but I'm not entirely certain on how likely it is. While we're talking about the last two characters and a really big conference, it's also possible that Nintendo might wanna hold onto CP11 until a later date (when it's ready that is and they've recorded Sakurai's final Presents, for example). Not neccessarily because of the pandemic.

I'm taking a gander and say that the odds are 40 / 60 in favor of just one reveal.
Is there such a thing as a casual E3 viewer? Genuine question here. I really don't think the average person even knows E3 is happening. I always assumed that EA's sports games were there to try and sell them to hardcore gamers, hence why they feature stuff like the story mode. It's not like the casual gamer needs any convincing, if they buy FIFA every year they're not gonna stop.

As for EA not needing E3, I guess that's true to an extent but I think having a Direct-style press conference helps their games. Long gameplay demos benefit a company like EA especially given people are more likely to assume their games will be bad, and being at E3 will bring more eyes than they would otherwise get.
 
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volbound1700

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Did you miss the part where Metal Gear Solid is in Smash?
Yes but a person that likes FPS doesn't necessarily like Nintendo fighting games. The two genres are massively different. I know from experience. I think most of the people that would like MasterChief in Smash have already been captured by the game with other characters like Snake, etc.

The 20-30 year old age range that likes FPS often times considers most Nintendo games to be "babyish" because the graphics aren't realistic. I am NOT saying that I agree with them or that they have any logic, I am just pointing out how they actually are.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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It also means if we inexcliably end up with Commander Keen in Ultimate, one could technically say "Well you guys wanted more Microsoft reps in Smash..."
 

N3ON

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Is there such a thing as a casual E3 viewer? Genuine question here. I really don't think the average person even knows E3 is happening. I always assumed that EA's sports games were there to try and sell them to hardcore gamers, hence why they feature stuff like the story mode. It's not like the casual gamer needs any convincing, if they buy FIFA every year they're not gonna stop.

As for EA not needing E3, I guess that's true to an extent but I think having a Direct-style press conference helps their games. Long gameplay demos benefit a company like EA especially given people are more likely to assume their games will be bad, and being at E3 will bring more eyes than they would otherwise get.
I know people who watch E3 presentations but don't watch any other gaming presentations by any other companies at any other point in the year, if that's close enough. I don't know if they're "casual"; they're like... average gamers. They play a handful of games, usually mostly well-known ones, but they don't bother diving into online fanbases or anything like that. They usually hear about salient gaming news a few days late, but they still hear about it.

I think that's the crowd that E3 gets that other events don't. Not so much super casual, just general gamer.
 

volbound1700

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So you’ll be a “hypocrite” too? Way to stick it to the man, that definitely sends the message.

Stop making excuses and accept that it’s perfectly fine to just... believe different things can happen lol. Just because someone believes one thing can happen doesn’t mean they suddenly have to believe literally anything can happen. It’s not always just picking and choosing what they want to believe but informed by their own observations and speculation.

Again, my most wanted character falls under that Nintendo umbrella. I am not expecting them. It’s not because I don’t want to, it’s because I fail to see the logic in their inclusion right now. That is perfectly fine.

If you don’t see the logic in Chief right now, that is also fine. I disagree with you, but you’re welcome to believe that and also believe we’re getting a GBA character. I don’t believe that and that’s cool because these are not remotely similar statements that contradict one another in any way.

Your problem is that you’re ignoring that nuance and acting like these are the same thing while ALSO being vehemently against Master Chief and tacking on arbitrary rules yourself. There is no self awareness here.
Although I agree with your points, your attitude and insults in this post don't really belong on this board. This is why this chat thread keeps getting hostile. Can you just tone it down with him? No need to be so nasty.
 

volbound1700

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View attachment 317898

This tangent is weird and honestly does not make sense. Steve had a strong response especially in the West. If you want evidence just look at how popular his reveal was vs others for the game.
I think you missed the whole point of my post. General someone who would want Crash for example or Doomguy is not the same as someone who wanted Steve. Most of the Steve's audience was the YOUNGER generation.

I love Steve and think he was a great addition but most of the older fans probably were not that wild about him. He got a lot of attention for negative reasons as well as an FYI. If I remember correctly, even on this board, the Banjo-Kazooie demand was either more numerous or louder than Steve. Most fans tended to prefer Banjo over Steve.

This is where putting in numbers gets you guys off track. Steve was more of a meme than a desired character.
 

SKX31

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Is there such a thing as a casual E3 viewer? Genuine question here. I really don't think the average person even knows E3 is happening. I always assumed that EA's sports games were there to try and sell them to hardcore gamers, hence why they feature stuff like the story mode. It's not like the casual gamer needs any convincing, if they buy FIFA every year they're not gonna stop.

As for EA not needing E3, I guess that's true to an extent but I think having a Direct-style press conference helps their games. Long gameplay demos benefit a company like EA especially given people are more likely to assume their games will be bad, and being at E3 will bring more eyes than they would otherwise get.
Well, looking at E3 viewership during E3 2019:

Each year, numerous high-profile influencers take time off from their stream to go to the event, but the absence of streamers online doesn’t mean Twitch is lacking content for the week. Instead of watching Tyler “Ninja” Blevins doing the Pon-Pon dance after winning a game of Fortnite , viewers are instead watching game developers and publishers unveil details regarding all of the games and consoles that they’ve been working on for the past year.

This year, the main Twitch channel, which produced live coverage of E3 beginning with pre-expo conferences that took place on Saturday and Sunday before the convention formally began June 11-13, accumulated 4.5M hours watched.
The top session for the week came during the opening conferences that were headlined by Xbox, Bethesda, and Devolver Digital. The livestream of those conferences averaged 213K concurrent viewers over the course of six hours peaking at 391K during Microsoft’s presentation.

It’d be amiss to suggest that that’s the only viewership E3 got on Twitch though, because of the nature of the event, Twitch allowed its personality broadcasters to co-stream E3 coverage to their own streams. So while many people chose to watch more traditional coverage of the conferences, viewers were also able to watch coverage with commentary by influencers like Michael “Shroud” Grzesiek or Saqib “Lirik” Zahid.

Zahid led all streamers over the weekend who co-streamed under the category of “Special Events” with 414K hours watched and an average of 34K CCV. Overall, Special Events as a category led Twitch with 18.4M hours watched from June 8-13 beating out games such as Fortnite that were missing their top influencers who were instead in attendance at E3.
Now granted I should've worded it all better - "casual" is not the best word to use in this scenario looking back - but in addition to what
N3ON N3ON said I do think that there's going to be quite a few people who aren't that invested or even aware of E3 happening if it weren't for their favorite streamer covering it. Not the main source of additional viewership of course, but still a notable source.

Of course, this is Twitch - while Youtube also has a streaming service most viewers there are going to look at the individual E3 trailers released in post. That's likely the case with the Smash reveals and it's also likely the case with other games.
 
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