Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Basically, money and corporate greed where behind many of the game's more questionable decisions, such as Dante using his design from the failed DMC: Devil May Cry reboot instead of the classic design.

Well, it had a pretty small budget.

It's also a new studio. Companies were unlikely to play ball at the time. Sony aside. Many of them want their recent characters/designs so it at least promotes their own games. That's not even corporate greed. That's just not taking an outright risk. Yeah, the DMC reboot didn't do that well overall, but at the time, that's what they wanted to promote. It failing was probably not the case just yet. SE is going to charge more money than some companies, but that's due to employees being paid a bit differently too. Specific people own specific parts of the IP, not SE in general. That means someone like Cloud Strife has to be more expensive, due to artists and other various factors. That, and he had nothing to be promotable for. See the risk factor. Lightning was the lateest protagonist of the time, and XIII was doing fine in their opinion(though could be better). Wanting to get extra promotion for that was actually a pretty smart move on SE's part.

A good example of corporate greed would be Cole/Evil Cole, forcing two or nothing. Though that could relate to promoting a current game less so than "we want more and more" too. That said, the lack of Crash and Spyro sucks. Activision isn't the easy to work with, so they were likely overcharging as is.

I think the problem with trying to dumb it down to money/corporate greed is that it's not entirely the whole case. It's definitely a factor, but it's more complicated. It still sucks a cool idea didn't work out well. However, I'd say the roster is only a small part of the issue. The gameplay is awkward in its own way. Having to do a "finishing move" of sorts to win any actual battle means matches can go on way longer than normal, causing stalling/making it bad for tournaments with time limits. That kind of decision is going to be something that can hurt the overall game. It's not that people don't like the idea too(some do, some don't), it's the fact that it can't work too well as a competitive game with problematic design choices. That said, that's the only one I remember being a legit issue at any point among gameplay itself. It's not a bad game, but just needs more work. Also, I can't blame Sony for giving them a smaller budget. Are they really going to give a large budget to somebody with no real clout to their name? No. That's too risky.

What would've helped is if they tried to do a smaller roster with some basic characters and let it build on with a sequel. Smash actually did this formula well with a fairly simple first game, while Melee massively changed things on its own. A big roster does not work well for first time crossovers. Especially if it's not effectively a continuation of other gameplay(Marvel VS Capcom worked because it's basically updating it from Street Fighter mainly, so it already had all the core gameplay tools to work with, with only the roster mainly changing, and adding some fun unique stuff. The first actual game is X-Men VS Street Fighter, and they already had half the characters essentially easy to translate over. That's not possible with every crossover either. Smash obviously can rarely do that, since only a handful came from a Fighting Game as is. Well, brawler or traditional anyway. Not one technically a fighting game by design).

 

[volbound1700]

Basically, money and corporate greed where behind many of the game's more questionable decisions, such as Dante using his design from the failed DMC: Devil May Cry reboot instead of the classic design.

That and bad timing. Sounds like 3 of the major franchises were rebranding their characters (like Tomb Raider) and PSASBR came out at the wrong time.

 

[Louie G.]

Are there any characters you believe have a chance of being revealed at E3 regardless of want, fan demand, or frequency of speculation?

Master Chief
Tails
Chosen Undead / Solaire
Chun-Li or Phoenix Wright (very skeptical of Capcom rn though)

Refraining from plugging Arle but if there's a double East / West reveal again her chances of appearing would go up.
I feel like these guys would be significant enough to stand on their own whether we get one or two reveals, that's pretty much my "pool".

 

[volbound1700]

Are there any characters you believe have a chance of being revealed at E3 regardless of want, fan demand, or frequency of speculation?

I mean, not that I want them, but they are a possibility: Jonesy from Fortnite, Tracer from Overwatch, Lloyd from Tales Of franchise. The latter which I know has been discussed but I still feel is kind of discredited here just due to Tales Of not being as big in the West.

Honestly, I could see Sora, Dr, Eggman or Tails, Ryu Hayabusa, Crash, Gen. VIII Pokémon, Jonesy, Tracer, Lloyd, or even Waluigi, just for shock value, to be our possible E3 reveal.

Lloyd is definitely very likely, more so than some of the characters being discussed. Jonesy and Tracer are not too unbelievable as well.

Anyone from NAMCO or KOMEI-TECMO would not surprise me.

First-Parties are likely as well although I think at least one of the remaining FP will be third-party.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't know how that goes against his argument when the point wasn't the order of reveal or even the reveals at all but rather the variety in demographic appeal and "hype" level.

It's not like they needed to wait until August 2018 to know that the hardcore fans would be all in with just Ridley and K. Rool.

Right, maybe I should've said they ANNOUNCED Isabelle and Incineroar after Ridley and K. Rool were enough to sell the base game to Brawl speculation veterans. Isabelle may share a lot of moves with Villager, but the beginning of her development wasn't started as soon as every single Brawl Boomer was planning to preorder the game after seeing K. Rool.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Yes but a person that likes FPS doesn't necessarily like Nintendo fighting games. The two genres are massively different. I know from experience. I think most of the people that would like MasterChief in Smash have already been captured by the game with other characters like Snake, etc.

The 20-30 year old age range that likes FPS often times considers most Nintendo games to be "babyish" because the graphics aren't realistic. I am NOT saying that I agree with them or that they have any logic, I am just pointing out how they actually are.

I’d say that’s a generalization that isn’t really accurate. The FPS genre is probably the biggest game genre in the US, that covers millions of different players with varying opinions & mindsets.

It’s pretty common to find people with Nintendo themed names in Halo matches. I used to get roasted by people on Halo back in the day whenever I said I hadn’t played Ocarina of Time.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Question: how would you guys feel if Rayman took Steve's place as CP7?

Not mad at Rayman, he’s cool, but very disappointed and confused as to why Steve was suddenly replaced. Tbh I’d be upset.

I agree. Steve is a BIG NAME in the West but most responses where kind of like MissClickGaming's response, "oh it is Steve..." He is seen as more of that guy that was cool when were a kid but you grew up out of him.

The majority was positive. A lot were neutral or negative, but still there were very many people happy about it, including older teens, young adults and likely even older adults. Steve is still cool to young adult me and many others.

Steve was also popular in Japan.

Yeah, I'm not going to contest Steve is a popular character. The reactors just reacted the way they did because over a certain age Steve in Smash is a lot less likely to appeal to someone, and most of those reactors were above that age.

And he's in now but let's also not forget that he was never a character everyone was on board with. If you're going to film a reaction you can't respond too negatively or people will hold it against you.

Even if Steve isn’t really why Twitter crashed, he still stayed number 1 on trending for a while, overtaking the USA presidential election or debate stuffs or whatever it was that was number 1 for the majority of that time. He still stayed on trending for a bit after he lost #1.

Also, no characters are ones everyone is on board with. Steve still had a large majority of positivity, including from adults, as Minecraft appeals to everyone, and isn’t intentionally geared towards kids only (they even try making videos and stuff that everyone would enjoy, and I think they’ve gotten better at doing that with Minecon/Minecraft Live).

Some reactions may have been feigned a little, but some were clearly genuine, including I believe Failboat’s considering he was pushing for Steve a little previously even against people acting a little miffed about Steve being presented as a possibility, betting he’d get in. Also IntroSpecktive who was pushing for Steve for a long length of time, and some others who were very happy.

Of course there were also reactions like Arlo’s who didn’t seem to care but didn’t really get negative and were just surprised; I imagine maybe stuff like that is what you’re referring too, but there were also some straight-up negative reactions including from people with a decent following so idk. There was even that dude who was being very insulting and mean to Steve fans (using some rather personal insults) then tried to play it off as a joke.

I know you’re not saying he’s not popular, but still, I don’t really understand this stuff or why it’s argued (aside from clearing up Twitter misinfo but I still wanted to mention the trending stuffs). I don’t think anyone is saying Steve is unanimously beloved, just that he is highly popular; being unanimously beloved is unrealistic for every character. Even Banjo & Kazooie, two I also love and who the majority(?) here seems to love as well, got a lot of negativity from some people online, as did other popular characters.

Heck, there are still people on Twitter who get mad over some popular suggested characters and pull the dumb “meme pick” argument and relate it to Steve (to be honest, and this isn’t very related so ignore if you want, but there are a lot of dumb arguments on Twitter in general; in regards to Smash, it’s often fan rules completely ignoring characters already on the roster who don’t fit their fan rule but I guess they somehow do for some made up reason; and I don’t mean “fan rule” like how it was wrongly used here, I mean people really pushing some made up rule or using something Sakurai may have said that honestly seems to fit a character but it’s argued it somehow doesn’t for a weird reason with no basis on official sources/thoughts and is just pushed as fact for why a character can’t get in. I try to stay out of these nowadays but I do find myself tempted to argue against them).

 

[volbound1700]

I’d say that’s a generalization that isn’t really accurate. The FPS genre is probably the biggest game genre in the US, that covers millions of different players with varying opinions & mindsets.

It’s pretty common to find people with Nintendo themed names in Halo matches. I used to get roasted by people on Halo back in the day whenever I said I hadn’t played Ocarina of Time.

I mean to a degree I am over generalizing, also OOT had more of an adult theme and its on an older console so chances are they played it when they were young or have some connection. N64 had Goldeneye, etc. I didn't start hearing the "Nintendo is for Babies" crap until the Gamecube era. Everyone was getting PS2s or Xbox.

Still, I don't see a mass rush of FPS fanboys to get Switches or Ultimate if Masterchief is added. It would get attention but I doubt it would add a lot. The Switch, however, is unique in that it has games that these FPS fanboys would like and it is handheld (a big deal).

Games that fit their genre could include Skyrim, Borderlands, Diablo 3, Overwatch, Doom (nearly every one you can think of), Bioshock, etc.

Switch has some of those classic adult games that would not be on Nintendo consoles in the past.

 

[Cosmic77]

Aside from issues on which console the game will be on, a Nintendo/Microsoft collaboration Smash game probably wouldn't be as great as people think.

For starters, what's gonna happen to third-parties like Sega, SE, and Capcom? Chances are, every character in this hypothetical game would be owned by either Nintendo or Microsoft.

Second, about 80% of the roster is first-party. In order to make this happen, we'll probably have to say goodbye to dozens of popular Nintendo characters to make room for the onslaught of Microsoft characters. Maybe some people are willing to make that sacrifice, but it'll be hard for some.

 

[Shroob]

I mean to a degree I am over generalizing, also OOT had more of an adult theme and its on an older console so chances are they played it when they were young or have some connection. N64 had Goldeneye, etc. I didn't start hearing the "Nintendo is for Babies" crap until the Gamecube era. Everyone was getting PS2s or Xbox.

Still, I don't see a mass rush of FPS fanboys to get Switches or Ultimate if Masterchief is added. It would get attention but I doubt it would add a lot. The Switch, however, is unique in that it has games that these FPS fanboys would like and it is handheld (a big deal).

Games that fit their genre could include Skyrim, Borderlands, Diablo 3, Overwatch, Doom (nearly every one you can think of), Bioshock, etc.

Switch has some of those classic adult games that would not be on Nintendo consoles in the past.

Really? That was around since the SNES Era.

"Genesis does what Nintendont"
And hell, the PS1 was a huge contributor to Nintendo being for "babies."

 

[subterrestrial]

Are there any characters you believe have a chance of being revealed at E3 regardless of want, fan demand, or frequency of speculation?

I mean, not that I want them, but they are a possibility: Jonesy from Fortnite, Tracer from Overwatch, Lloyd from Tales Of franchise. The latter which I know has been discussed but I still feel is kind of discredited here just due to Tales Of not being as big in the West.

Honestly, I could see Sora, Dr, Eggman or Tails, Ryu Hayabusa, Crash, Gen. VIII Pokémon, Jonesy, Tracer, Lloyd, or even Waluigi, just for shock value, to be our possible E3 reveal.

waluigi definitely has a shot with all the new merchandise coming out I wouldn't even be surprised. also wouldnt be surprised if Zarude was added to promote the new Pokemon movie because lucario and mewtwo also had movie clout before getting added.

but king boo is definitely a lock for dlc, all the evidence is there. Chun-Li is a real possibility too

 

[N3ON]

Superbot had basically no leverage. From my understanding Sony didn't help them negotiate with the third-parties, and they were an unproven studio with a small budget, so if Capcom wants it to be Donte, it's Donte or nothing. I think they should've leaned more heavily on their first-party lineup and used the budget more effectively on a few single sensible additions, but it is what it is.

And it certainly wasn't Smash, where Namco can be like "how about Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man?" and Sakurai can go "sounds good! I'll just cut the character!" and Namco goes "no no no no no ok fine whatever you want".

Or he goes to Square and says
"we'd like some Final Fantasy, please" and they go
"certainly! Here's Lightning!"
"Cloud"
"We're using Lightning right now!"
"Cloud"
"Would people want Cloud?"
"Cloud"
"There's this new character coming up named Noctis!"
"Cloud"
"How about a Moogle?!"
"Cloud"
"Ok fine, Cloud"
"And Sephiroth"

Or when he goes to SNK and says "we'd like-" and they go "omg yes! please! holy ****! yes! take it all!" and proceed to give Sakurai all their first born children.

But then even Sakurai has to fall in line to the power of Executive With Glasses.

 

[SKX31]

Are you guys planning to stay or leave smashboards after the DLC is done?

I'm staying, although I'm likely to be less active. Still, the social and competitive threads are the places where I'm likely to hang out.

That's interesting, so I guess if a FIFA/Madden/NBA Live focused streamer (and I know there's a lot of those) watches E3, then a ton of casuals will too. I hadn't considered that (mostly because I can't fathom why someone would watch someone else watching a stream) but I guess that's another potential audience for those reveals.

Still, I think there's a net benefit for EA to be at E3. The more casual viewers will tune in just for the game they like, regardless of when the event is, but the rest might turn up in bigger numbers because of E3, be it for tradition or the expectation that there will be big games there. If the goal is to sell the casuals on their hardcore games and the hardcore on their casual games I can't imagine a more efficient venue for that than E3. I know I would watch their press conference if it were in June instead of July where it's been set.

The primary reason why quite a few people watch someone else watch a stream is that someone often is a "commentator" of sorts (this is also the case when say a pro player restreams a competitive event). That plus the time invested means that they'll look towards the streamer's version (kinda evidence of a parasocial relationship) - whether we're talking Ludwig, Ninja or someone else.

I do agree that it would be a net benefit for EA, but EA seems to be going on their own practically.

(Sidenote: NBA Live began a major Dork Age when the re-christened NBA Elite 11 was such a total failure EA pulled it from stores - since then 12, 13, 17, 20 and 21 have been cancelled, even as they went back to the Live name with 14. Since Elite 11 2K has taken over the NBA crown with NBA 2K.)

I think the problem with trying to dumb it down to money/corporate greed is that it's not entirely the whole case. It's definitely a factor, but it's more complicated. It still sucks a cool idea didn't work out well. However, I'd say the roster is only a small part of the issue. The gameplay is awkward in its own way. Having to do a "finishing move" of sorts to win any actual battle means matches can go on way longer than normal, causing stalling/making it bad for tournaments with time limits. That kind of decision is going to be something that can hurt the overall game.

I should point out that needing a finishing move - the Super - to win meant that any kill-confirms were 100 % the way to go; you really didn't want to miss any Super in that game, otherwise you were on the backfoot. This was less of an issue in FFAs granted, but there a character with a screen clear Level 3 like Heihachi - automatic 3 kills, but only max 3 - kinda pales in comparision to Kratos who can just grow to giant size and get 4-6 kills with his Level 3.

Now both those problems have more or less reared themselves in Smash too, but not to the extreme PSASBR suffered. Smash 4 might've had absurd kill confirms off of grabs ( a lot of characters had them, including 's Ding Dong) and in terms of FFAs we all know how severely imbalanced Final Smashes can be ('s is possibly a massive damage swing in her favor, 's has had an infamous issue with not hitting properly), but neither those things are as central to the gameplay as PSASBR's Supers were.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Superbot had basically no leverage. From my understanding Sony didn't help them negotiate with the third-parties, and they were an unproven studio with a small budget, so if Capcom wants it to be Donte, it's Donte or nothing. I think they should've leaned more heavily on their first-party lineup and used the budget more effectively on a few single sensible additions, but it is what it is.

And it certainly wasn't Smash, where Namco can be like "how about Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man?" and Sakurai can go "sounds good! I'll just cut the character!" and Namco goes "no no no no no ok fine whatever you want".

Or he goes to Square and says
"we'd like some Final Fantasy, please" and they go
"certainly! Here's Lightning!"
"Cloud"
"We're using Lightning right now!"
"Cloud"
"Would people want Cloud?"
"Cloud"
"There's this new character coming up named Noctis!"
"Cloud"
"How about a Moogle?!"
"Cloud"
"Ok fine, Cloud"
"And Sephiroth"

Or when he goes to SNK and says "we'd like-" and they go "omg yes! please! holy ****! yes! take it all!" and proceed to give Sakurai all their first born children.

But then even Sakurai has to fall in line to the power of Executive With Glasses.

And this is telling of Sony's general approach. They wanted Smash numbers without either the game or reputation that the series created to earn its place, and grossly underestimated how critical the iconic and preferred versions of characters were. Something like Brawl's status was not something one could achieve without a lot of good will and money, and Sony felt lacking in providing either.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The primary reason why quite a few people watch someone else watch a stream is that someone often is a "commentator" of sorts (this is also the case when say a pro player restreams a competitive event). That plus the time invested means that they'll look towards the streamer's version (kinda evidence of a parasocial relationship) - whether we're talking Ludwig, Ninja or someone else.

Can't relate to this at all lmao, guess I'm just old

 

[Dan Quixote]

Aside from issues on which console the game will be on, a Nintendo/Microsoft collaboration Smash game probably wouldn't be as great as people think.

For starters, what's gonna happen to third-parties like Sega, SE, and Capcom? Chances are, every character in this hypothetical game would be owned by either Nintendo or Microsoft.

Second, about 80% of the roster is first-party. In order to make this happen, we'll probably have to say goodbye to dozens of popular Nintendo characters to make room for the onslaught of Microsoft characters. Maybe some people are willing to make that sacrifice, but it'll be hard for some.

I mean I'd be very okay with that? I doubt most people would hate that too. If the purpose of the game is a Microsoft/Nintendo crossover, of the likes of the Capcom vs. series, then yeah go ahead and cut the less important or redundant Nintendo characters to make room for the likes of pop culture touchstones like Halo, The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Quake, Wolfenstein, Gears of War... You could still get your more minor fan favs like Conker or Psychonauts in there too. Plus in this hypothetical situation, you could probably bend the "must be from a video game rule" without getting people too mad to include games like KOTOR. It'd be pretty sweet.

 

[volbound1700]

Really? That was around since the SNES Era.

"Genesis does what Nintendont"
And hell, the PS1 was a huge contributor to Nintendo being for "babies."

Yeah, that was some of it too lol. Still, Nintendo had more adult themed games. Goldeneye was HUGE in my area. Everyone played and talked about it. It sold the N64. I do remember people going onto PS2s and getting GTA, COD, Sports Games, etc.

I grew up with an original NES and Sega Genesis as a kid. When I got to Highschool Age, I was more into PC games (notably strategy games like Civilization 2, Colonization, Sim City 2000, Master of Orion 2, Warcraft 2, Age of Empires 1-2, etc.). I played a lot of Doom 2 as well. I did have a PS1 for a short stint but the only games that I played a lot and remember was a College Football game and Army Men.

It wasn't until College that I got a console again. I ended up getting a Gamecube because it was cheaper and got NCAA Football 2003. I got an NBA game and Nightfire (James Bond game) as well. It wasn't until I went on a trip with friends out of state and someone had an N64 with the original Smash that I got back into actual console games. I enjoyed the original Smash so when I got back, I went and discovered Melee and bought it. I played it and loved it. Then I discovered this Website and had the announcement for Brawl shortly after. So I won a Wii off Ebay when it was hot by bidding on a flood and got Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, Mario Galaxy, and Smash Brawl for Wii. That was when I started buying console games again in mass. I fell in love with Mario platformers again with Galaxy and have even gone back and played 64 and Sunshine (although I didn't enjoy Sunshine that much).

Through my wife, I got an N64 and Smash 64 so now I have all of the Smash games (minus 3DS version of 4 which I have never played).

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Aside from issues on which console the game will be on, a Nintendo/Microsoft collaboration Smash game probably wouldn't be as great as people think.

For starters, what's gonna happen to third-parties like Sega, SE, and Capcom? Chances are, every character in this hypothetical game would be owned by either Nintendo or Microsoft.

Second, about 80% of the roster is first-party. In order to make this happen, we'll probably have to say goodbye to dozens of popular Nintendo characters to make room for the onslaught of Microsoft characters. Maybe some people are willing to make that sacrifice, but it'll be hard for some.

I mean, it's not like this game would be a direct follow-up to the Smash series, even if the gameplay is similar. It'd be a lot more in line with crossovers such as Capcom vs., where it's a celebration of both companies. And even if some characters in Ultimate aren't added to this game... Ultimate still exists.

And it's not like they wouldn't be able to have guest characters period. Sonic is pretty prevalent on both Nintendo and Microsoft consoles.

 

[Shroob]

Though, iirc, the first video game console to pull the "Nintendo is for babies" shtick was..... the Panasonic 3DO....


.....yeah.

 

[Pillow]

I think there's a solid case to be made for Dovahkiin as the star of one of the biggest games of the last decade that reached monumental worldwide success, has a presence on Switch that Nintendo seemed to be really excited about, etc.

The major downside is that we got the Vault Boy costume earlier in FP2, which would have made more sense to save until we got a Bethesda character proper rather than dropping randomly alongside Min Min. But who knows, really. Let's just say there are many characters I'd be far more surprised to see than Dovahkiin, especially from the perspective of "western picks" I think he stands out.

A point in Dragonborn’s favor is that Skyrim was also pretty successful in Japan which sets him apart from other potential popular Western characters. I don’t personally think he’s coming but it wouldn’t surprise me too much.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Though, iirc, the first video game console to pull the "Nintendo is for babies" shtick was..... the Panasonic 3DO....


.....yeah.

I've always considered that to be a compliment. It shows that by playing Nintendo games, we're still gracefully holding onto the child inside us.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Though, iirc, the first video game console to pull the "Nintendo is for babies" shtick was..... the Panasonic 3DO....


.....yeah.

Which is a pity given that had the companies cooperated, we could have gotten a crossover title between the two major games from Panasonic and Nintendo that we all really wanted:

Spoiler

slight language warning

 

[N3ON]

Even if Steve isn’t really why Twitter crashed, he still stayed number 1 on trending for a while, overtaking the USA presidential election or debate stuffs or whatever it was that was number 1 for the majority of that time. He still stayed on trending for a bit after he lost #1.

Also, no characters are ones everyone is on board with. Steve still had a large majority of positivity, including from adults, as Minecraft appeals to everyone, and isn’t intentionally geared towards kids only (they even try making videos and stuff that everyone would enjoy, and I think they’ve gotten better at doing that with Minecon/Minecraft Live).

Some reactions may have been feigned a little, but some were clearly genuine, including I believe Failboat’s considering he was pushing for Steve a little previously even against people acting a little miffed about Steve being presented as a possibility, betting he’d get in. Also IntroSpecktive who was pushing for Steve for a long length of time, and some others who were very happy.

Of course there were also reactions like Arlo’s who didn’t seem to care but didn’t really get negative and were just surprised; I imagine maybe stuff like that is what you’re referring too, but there were also some straight-up negative reactions including from people with a decent following so idk. There was even that dude who was being very insulting and mean to Steve fans (using some rather personal insults) then tried to play it off as a joke.

I know you’re not saying he’s not popular, but still, I don’t really understand this stuff or why it’s argued (aside from clearing up Twitter misinfo but I still wanted to mention the trending stuffs). I don’t think anyone is saying Steve is unanimously beloved, just that he is highly popular; being unanimously beloved is unrealistic for every character. Even Banjo & Kazooie, two I also love and who the majority(?) here seems to love as well, got a lot of negativity from some people online, as did other popular characters.

Heck, there are still people on Twitter who get mad over some popular suggested characters and pull the dumb “meme pick” argument and relate it to Steve (to be honest, and this isn’t very related so ignore if you want, but there are a lot of dumb arguments on Twitter in general; in regards to Smash, it’s often fan rules completely ignoring characters already on the roster who don’t fit their fan rule but I guess they somehow do for some made up reason; and I don’t mean “fan rule” like how it was wrongly used here, I mean people really pushing some made up rule or using something Sakurai may have said that honestly seems to fit a character but it’s argued it somehow doesn’t for a weird reason with no basis on official sources/thoughts and is just pushed as fact for why a character can’t get in. I try to stay out of these nowadays but I do find myself tempted to argue against them).

Because Steve is a very polarizing character, more so than most third-parties.

Most reactor reactions are played up positively for SEO reasons. They don't necessarily fake it, but most exaggerate it. That's why happy becomes ecstatic, ambivalent becomes cheerful, and negative becomes muted. This has nothing to do with Steve in particular, that's how just most of the prominent reactors are going to react. Usually you can see as much by watching their first reaction videos where they react like normal people to more current ones where it's like they won the lottery while on coke.

 

[RGFS]

Yeah, that was some of it too lol. Still, Nintendo had more adult themed games. Goldeneye was HUGE in my area. Everyone played and talked about it. It sold the N64. I do remember people going onto PS2s and getting GTA, COD, Sports Games, etc.

Through my wife, I got an N64 and Smash 64 so now I have all of the Smash games (minus 3DS version of 4 which I have never played).

GTA had to be like the king of the PS2 era almost even though the series success has been way bigger from the 360 era to now. Gotta say, It is a little weird how GTA never touched Nintendo home consoles but it did show up on handhelds a ton. The original 2 games were on Gameboy in the year 2000, a GTA III port became an original title on the Gameboy Advance in 2004, and GTA Chinatown Wars was on the DS in 2009 which Nintendo revealed on their own E3.

It would've been really funny if the association was that Nintendo home consoles were for children while r e a l m e n carried Nintendo Handhelds. At least, it seems that's how Rockstar and Take-Two saw it. They also did put Bully and Manhunt 2 on Wii so it is weird they didn't put any GTA there. Then they ported L.A. Noire to Switch in 2017... It feels like they throw darts on a board or something.

The 3DS version of 4 is worth it for Smash Run alone tbh.

 

[volbound1700]

Though, iirc, the first video game console to pull the "Nintendo is for babies" shtick was..... the Panasonic 3DO....


.....yeah.

I remember it a lot from Gamecube on era. Everyone thought the NES was cool and nostalgic (even the older kids/adults grew up playing it) but the later games were "for babies." Notably, one game that my cousin made fun of was "Luigi's Mansion." Mario Sunshine didn't help either in their perception with the weird looking people (Piantas and Nokis). What is funny is these are great games but for some reason they got the "baby" stereotype that caused kids to not want to play them.

Kind of silly looking back on it now but a lot of gamers still have that view. I think a large chunk of the Halo fanbase, from what I have met, kind of shares this mentality (again, I am likely overgeneralizing but this seems to be the case).

Here is the thing, Nintendo has always had a wide array of unique games on their systems that appeal to multiple audience. This is even true with their first party. The original Smash cast for example has characters from Platformers, RPGs, races, epic adventures, and flight simulators.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Sometimes the question is not “who do you expect?” and is “with whom, more or less, do you be satisfied?”. And by talking both source gaming 2020 and 2019 polls, here are all the third party characters that got into the top 30 in either of those polls and there aren’t in the game (as playable fighter, assist, mii costume or dlc spirit etc)

• Crash (Crash Bandicoot)
• Doom Guy (Doom)
• Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
• Rayman (Rayman)
• Master Chief (Halo)
• Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
• Reimu (Tohou)
• Shantae (Shantae)
• 2B (Nier)
• Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
• Arle Nadja (Puyo Puyo)
• Spyro (Spyro The Dragon)
• Lloyd (Tales of)
• The Knight (Hollow Knight)
• Heavy (Team Fortress 2)
• Dr Eggman (Sonic)
• Amaterasu (Okami)
• Scorpion (Mortal Kombat)
• Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
• Klonoa (Klonoa)

Any of these additions should satisfied a good portion of hardcore smash players.

 

[Shroob]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

 

[Technomage]

While my topic for a Microsoft vs. Nintendo game is still fresh, what characters should be added to the game, and how many in total?

Also, since I'm not sure about the number of fighters, I'm gonna wait a bit before detailing what fighters I'd pick.

 

[Lamperouge]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

100%

Hope y'all are ready for the end of speculation

 

[N3ON]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

50/50

I think you go in hoping for a double but keeping expectations set at simply at least getting one. The chances of a single reveal are high enough that people could easily be let down if they go in expecting both.

 

[CureParfait]

Are there any characters you believe have a chance of being revealed at E3 regardless of want, fan demand, or frequency of speculation?

I think
Reimu
A Pokemon
Waluigi
Probably Dante

 

[Noipoi]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

I’m thinking only one. It makes the most sense to me that they’d stretch the end of smash ultimate, one of the Switch era’s biggest hype machines, for as long as possible.

But also...every E3 since Smash 4 has had at least two reveals. And it wouldn’t be out of place for them to continue that tradition.

I’m leaning towards one, but we’ll see. Don’t have long to wait.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

I think there’s a 70% chance of a double reveal.

 

[Noipoi]

100%

Hope y'all are ready for the end of speculation

I was ready 8 years ago

 

[CureParfait]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

Like about less than 5% chance of happening.

 

[Lyncario]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

Not confident. Could happen, but I don't really think so.

 

[SharkLord]

So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.

Probably. Having multiple reveals tends to be an E3 tradition.

 

[SirCamp]

Apropos of nothing, I'm gonna chime in here just to say that we need Mallo is Smash.



I mean look at the little guy! He is adorable!

And I see people talk about getting a puzzle game rep in Smash, but no one ever talks about him. Give Mallo your love!

 

[N3ON]

I didn't realize there was this much disparity; people should start making avatars bets over single vs. double reveals. xD

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Are there any characters you believe have a chance of being revealed at E3 regardless of want, fan demand, or frequency of speculation?

Aside from Crash, who is more likely now to be reveal at E3. The ones that might get in as the last fighter are Reimu or Master Chief.