Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[cashregister9]

In Other News

The Legend Of Heroes: Trails Of Cold Steel IV came out on Switch and PC today, The whole franchise is real good and the whole series minus zero and azure are on Steam and 2 cold steel games are on the Nintendo Switch.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This.

This is what I wanna highlight in particular, because holy ****, it's an amazing idea in concept... but man. Sakurai talked about Spirits in multiplayer in the November 2018 presentation, as another way to have casual multiplayer fun.

In the two years I've been here I've never seen people actually talk about Spirits in multiplayer (except for the times I've brought it up). Nintendo ran one Online Spirit-enabled Tourney... but nothing more than that. I mean, it's a feature... but the only time I've seen it semi-consistently used is when Tom Fawkes creates specific stages through Stage Builder. And even then Tom recommends that everyone plays with the same Spirit setup.

I've pointed to a reason why it's almost never played - it's really difficult to set up, especially for 2+ people in a room, In order to equip a Spirit team to a character you have to have saved a Spirit team on standby... or you gotta create a new team. Repeat either of those options.

I really think Nintendo should've included the option of downloading Spirit teams. Would've made things a lot easier, even if it might break WoL's challenge. OTOH, they've included some stupidly potent DLC Spirits and pretty much shown off optimal ways to beat up particular ones like Pauline, so yeah.

Spirit teams needed to be createable in the Character Select Screen, and existing ones needed to be able to be randomized. Even when I wanted to use Spirits, I had to leave the main game, go to the Spirits menu, make my Spirit teams (which I do put some thought into), go back, get the ruleset that allows Spirits (if there is one, I might just edit an existing one, which is another step), select the one I want (by the way, some of them only help certain characters so I have to remember which ones those are), try to randomly select one for the CPUs, then battle.

Yeah, there's a good reason why nobody cares about Spirits aside from disconfirmations.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Spirit teams needed to be createable in the Character Select Screen, and existing ones needed to be able to be randomized. Even when I wanted to use Spirits, I had to leave the main game, go to the Spirits menu, make my Spirit teams (which I do put some thought into), go back, get the ruleset that allows Spirits (if there is one, I might just edit an existing one, which is another step), select the one I want (by the way, some of them only help certain characters so I have to remember which ones those are), try to randomly select one for the CPUs, then battle.

Yeah, there's a good reason why nobody cares about Spirits aside from disconfirmations.

They're basically just stickers from Brawl. They're literally no different aside from the name change.

 

[Perkilator]

Spirit teams needed to be createable in the Character Select Screen, and existing ones needed to be able to be randomized. Even when I wanted to use Spirits, I had to leave the main game, go to the Spirits menu, make my Spirit teams (which I do put some thought into), go back, get the ruleset that allows Spirits (if there is one, I might just edit an existing one, which is another step), select the one I want (by the way, some of them only help certain characters so I have to remember which ones those are), try to randomly select one for the CPUs, then battle.

Yeah, there's a good reason why nobody cares about Spirits aside from disconfirmations.

They're basically just stickers from Brawl. They're literally no different aside from the name change.

…I care about Spirits (at least, the Spirit Battles).

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Was there any word on whether Pyra and Mythra would get 2 different Amiibo or just Pyra or would the 2 be put together? I don’t keep up much on Amiibo but I’m curious about this.

 

[7NATOR]

Was there any word on whether Pyra and Mythra would get 2 different Amiibo or just Pyra or would the 2 be put together? I don’t keep up much on Amiibo but I’m curious about this.

We got no info on any of the FP2 Amiibo

 

[RoboFist]

What about you, people? Do you think that speculation for Smash, be it Ultimate's DLC or in general, was really hard, or overall you have seen a lot of characters coming?

I think I'm coming at speculation differently from a lot of people on here. I don't approach it like a test with answers, but rather like a treasure buried on an island to find. I could use this old map from years ago, or this newer map from someone who swears to know where it's buried, or follow a pattern that was used to find the last couple of treasures, or break out my own metal detector, or listen to the crazy guy on the beach who shouts conspiracy theories about chairs, or just wander around aimlessly and hope for the best. Eventually, I'll dig in the spot I swear it's at, but usually uncover nothing, only to have Captain Sakurai pop up and just hand me the treasure anyway.

It's more about the excitement of not knowing than keeping score of how many I guessed correctly, I suppose.

Cause I'll say right now, I definitely didn't see Daisy, Richter, K. Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Joker, Byleth, anyone from ARMS, Steve, or Sephiroth coming. Hell, Ridley is the third most shocking reveal to me in the history if this franchise because I genuinely believed Sakurai wasn't going to put him in. And I honestly prefer it that way haha. I like theorizing, but I love being surprised.

…I care about Spirits (at least, the Spirit Battles).

People hate on Spirits, but I honestly think they're fun and a ridiculously clever way of implementing as many characters as they can. They're not the most earth-shattering addition to Smash, but they're far from pointless like everyone insists.

 

[cashregister9]

I love spirits, They are just the stickers from brawl but expanded upon to be better. They are not as good as trophies but I like the compromise here

I do have a few issues, I wish the Trophy Cases and Descriptions came back and I wish there were more things to do with the spirits, Maybe bring back street smash but you use your spirit collection as the art instead of Player Icons.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

In Other News

The Legend Of Heroes: Trails Of Cold Steel IV came out on Switch and PC today, The whole franchise is real good and the whole series minus zero and azure are on Steam and 2 cold steel games are on the Nintendo Switch.

Apparently 1 and 2 are getting ported this summer in Japan at least. So that might happen here in the west too.

 

[Speed Weed]

I do really enjoy at least having Spirits there, if only for the representation factor: that feeling of "holy **** they put in (the world's most obscure character)", ya know?

Something that I particularly like about the selection of Spirits we got is that, out of every lineup of collectables involving other characters throughout Smash games, the Spirit lineup in Ultimate feels the....best-curated, I wanna say? Like, when you look at the trophy lineups in each past Smash game, or the sticker lineup in Brawl, I wouldn't say any of them are bad, far from it, but they all definitely have their own weird quirks to them. In contrast, the spirit lineup in Ultimate honestly feels like the most complete and well put-together out of any of these.

Like, obviously there's omissions, obviously it's not perfect, but it's prolly got the least overlap between the characters included, it covers most series really well from all over the recognizability spectrum and giving most of their notable games at least some love, and of course there's the misc. stuff. Which I've already talked about before, but I really love it how they brought back almost every misc. IP that had been represented in Smash before. And not only that, but they actually went back through Nintendo history to pull out a bunch of IPs that hadn't been represented at all before: not just some INCREDIBLY deep pulls, but some games that - while obscure in the grand scheme of things - did feel like somewhat weird exclusions relative to the scope of the games represented beforehand, like Battle Clash, Mole Mania and Eternal Darkness.

One thing to note in Brawl and Smash 4's trophy selections is the lean towards stuff from newer games, presumably due to the models being easier to reuse, but when the main collectable is pngs, that concern isn't there and they can really go all out with these series' casts, and that shows. Most of the series represented in the roster have really satisfying spirit lineups IMO - even if they don't feature every single character or whatever

 

[PeridotGX]

I've started playing Project M Ex Remix, and I think I've gone from meme wanting Vectorman to actually wanting vectorman? He's actually pretty fun to play.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy Birthday to Super Paper Mario!

14 years ago today, Super Paper Mario was released for the Wii. pic.twitter.com/PV6rQptAR2

— The Game Awards (@thegameawards) April 9, 2021

 

[SharkLord]

What about you, people? Do you think that speculation for Smash, be it Ultimate's DLC or in general, was really hard, or overall you have seen a lot of characters coming?

I have called a total of two characters; Byleth and Pyra. I didn't expect Byleth to come in FP1 rather than FP2, though I was still pretty happy (Which is a... Divisive opinion, even a year afterwards), and I didn't expect Pyra to fight solo rather than with Rex.

My problem is that I only really focus on the small-ish circle of characters I'm interested in, but oh well. I'm not terribly invested in who does or doesn't get in, since I've been satisfied with everyone so far, from Piranha Plant to Sephiroth. If I'm wrong, I'll probably be able to enjoy whoever we did get anyways.

I've found I'm among the most lenient people here when it comes to predictions. I've suggested smaller, more region-centric characters like Reimu and Sakura, whereas half of everyone has brushed them off, citing the interview that said why Takamaru didn't make it, and I'm still sticking with Lloyd until they actually reveal that costume, patterns be damned. Each reveal shatters expectations further and further, and barely anyone would've predicted Joker, Terry, or Min Min before their reveal. As a result, I've decided to just shrug and go "Hey, it could happen" as my default mindset.

The only character groups I've been really harsh with are any series with post-launch content, and settings that already have a decent level of content. With the former, I think any big content pack from a series would have them all together, and I doubt we'd be getting two fighters from the same series in the DLC cycle. For the latter, I've been looking at the DLC in terms of the brand, rather than just the fighter. It feels like it's trying to represent the game (Or series, or entire company in Terry's case) as a whole with the character as a focal point, rather than just having a fighter with some stuff in the background. As such, I'm not very optimistic on series that already have a decent amount of content.

 

[Louie G.]

Do you think that speculation for Smash, be it Ultimate's DLC or in general, was really hard, or overall you have seen a lot of characters coming?

Saw someone quote this from before and wanted to reflect a bit.

Speculation in general... I started back in Smash 4, and the situation is definitely a lot different now. Looking back between the two though, I gotta say, base roster has been significantly easier to predict than DLC. For reference:

Base Game Newcomers I Predicted: /

DLC Newcomers I Predicted: (Although I expected them in FP2 instead)
Conditionally: (Predicted her out of the ARMS characters, but I wasn't predicting an ARMS character), (Vergeben)

I can't speak for everyone, but I doubt I'm alone in this kind of ratio. DLC generally seems to work a lot differently and we're still figuring out exactly how to wrap our heads around it. But, in general, I think it's been getting easier.
As it stands, I'd say the big shocking DLC reveals (minus Plant) were these three right here:

I'm sure we can be surprised again, but this fact remains and I think most people can agree with it:
The surprise of Joker / Terry / Sephiroth (individually) can never happen again. At least not really in the same way.

Joker opened up the discussion to more modern icons and characters further separated from Nintendo. Terry opened it up to smaller series and companies that the community had been glossing over. Sephiroth reminded people that third-party series can actually get more characters. Are there more barriers to break? Yeah probably, but... the fact that we're discussing characters like Sora and Master Chief without a shred of irony speaks volumes. The fact that people in this community even know what the **** Falcom is means a lot. We've come a long way and it's getting harder and harder to really shock people.

The rest of our surprises were more situational. Byleth was expected to be FP2, Steve was highly discussed but just fell off for a while, Pyra / Mythra were heavily speculated but just didn't come with Rex. I wouldn't say the characters themselves were surprising, just the contexts of their inclusions. Hell, in general I think FP2 has been a lot more surface level. We have two characters from major Switch titles, and another two of the most popular video game characters of all time. FP1 was more of a wildcard pack.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think we've dried the well of feasible rules to break... outside of maybe like "never appeared on Nintendo" or like, the one per company "rule", but those don't feel so set in stone anymore to begin with and the possibilities have been discussed in depth already. I know that a lot of people hold this perspective that no matter what we can NEVER predict what comes next, but I disagree. In general I've grown kinda tired of hearing that, because it's a generalization and refusing to think about why we were wrong before and get ahead of the game next time.

I just think that it took a while for the full picture to become clearer. We've never had Nintendo explicitly choose all the characters. We're pretty much playing by a whole different ruleset now, so it's natural for that to have been harder to grasp at first - but with time comes understanding, and I can't imagine it getting any crazier than Joker or Sephiroth nor can that same level of "what the **** how is this possible" ever happen again, because we KNOW it's possible now. But hey, I'll be the first to laugh and say they totally got me next time if they decide to drop some megaton groundbreaking reveal once again.

 

[Ivander]

What about you, people? Do you think that speculation for Smash, be it Ultimate's DLC or in general, was really hard, or overall you have seen a lot of characters coming?

I think the only one I saw coming so far was a FE: Three Houses rep. Not necessarily Byleth, just a Three Houses rep. I did see Rex or Pyra/Mythra as possible after ARMS, but I didn't necessarily see it coming, just saw it as possible. The only times I'll ever see someone coming is saved for Saber from Fate/Stay Night and Chosen Undead from Dark Souls, as I believe those two are very underrated picks and that those two have a real chance of being DLC.

As for Smash Speculation, learning about different series and series you never heard of before is a genuinely fun time in Speculation. But the actual Speculation tends to be very tiring because it's definitely 99% guessing and 1% speculating actual possibilities and looking at evidence that suggests the possibility. Combined with the reveals practically leaving Smash speculation in the dust, especially after Sephiroth, and with some people getting angry over speculation, it's not without stress. And some days tend to get very stressful.

 

[SharkLord]

I think the only one I saw coming so far was a FE: Three Houses rep. Not necessarily Byleth, just a Three Houses rep. I did see Rex or Pyra/Mythra as possible after ARMS, but I didn't necessarily see it coming, just saw it as possible. The only times I'll ever see someone coming is saved for Saber from Fate/Stay Night and Chosen Undead from Dark Souls, as I believe those two are very underrated picks and that those two have a real chance of being DLC.

As for Smash Speculation, learning about different series and series you never heard of before is a genuinely fun time in Speculation. But the actual Speculation tends to be very tiring because it's definitely 99% guessing and 1% speculating actual possibilities and looking at evidence that suggests the possibility. Combined with the reveals practically leaving Smash speculation in the dust, especially after Sephiroth, and with some people getting angry over speculation, it's not without stress. And some days tend to get very stressful.

Aside from the lack of stuff to go off of-Or perhaps leading into it-I think the big problem is that everyone goes by different standards, and half the time all the debates won't go anywhere, because just because we're talking about the same thing doesn't mean we see the same way. Take Reimu, for example. Fandom-driven, massively popular in Japan specifically, much of it's popularity in general comes from osmosis. One person walks in, sees how widespread Touhou is through all the fanworks, and thinks, "Oh yeah, she's got a good shot." The next person walks in, sees the awkward lopsided popularity, and thinks "Nah, she'll just go the way of Takamaru." Then they argue back and forth, with the first one saying the widespread popularity is good, while the other insists that her games aren't localized properly and that instantly means she's impossible.

Both are focused on one thing, and don't give much thought to the other. In their eyes, what they're focused on is more important than the other guy's counterpoint, and so their arguments just don't go anywhere because they can't agree on what takes priority. And don't even get me started on how the fangames affect her; We've never seen anything like that, and so everyone has a different view on what they mean. Take out the fangames, change Reimu for Sakura, and it's the same; One side thinks the pros take priority, the other focuses on the cons. They can't find a way to appeal to the other side and convince them otherwise, and so the arguments drag on and on and on and on.

And aside from that, I'm just not a very argumentative person. Half of the time, whenever I get a reply that disagrees I just decide not to answer because the debates are tiring, and my brain immediately freezes up and refuses to make any good counterpoints or comebacks. Speculating is fun; Debating isn't.

 

[PSIGuy]

Spirit teams needed to be createable in the Character Select Screen, and existing ones needed to be able to be randomized. Even when I wanted to use Spirits, I had to leave the main game, go to the Spirits menu, make my Spirit teams (which I do put some thought into), go back, get the ruleset that allows Spirits (if there is one, I might just edit an existing one, which is another step), select the one I want (by the way, some of them only help certain characters so I have to remember which ones those are), try to randomly select one for the CPUs, then battle.

Yeah, there's a good reason why nobody cares about Spirits aside from disconfirmations.

And everything you just said could more or less be applied to custom moves, which had the similar problem of needing to be set-up beforehand which ended up kneecapping a lot of it's potential. It's like they learnt nothing about making these things easy to use so that more people would be willing to use them.

 

[Peripuff]

I've started playing Project M Ex Remix, and I think I've gone from meme wanting Vectorman to actually wanting vectorman? He's actually pretty fun to play.

No joke this literally happened with me and Style Savvy lol

Edit: except without the PM part

 

[SharkLord]

Saw someone quote this from before and wanted to reflect a bit.

Speculation in general... I started back in Smash 4, and the situation is definitely a lot different now. Looking back between the two though, I gotta say, base roster has been significantly easier to predict than DLC. For reference:

Base Game Newcomers I Predicted: /

DLC Newcomers I Predicted: (Although I expected them in FP2 instead)
Conditionally: (Predicted her out of the ARMS characters, but I wasn't predicting an ARMS character), (Vergeben)

I can't speak for everyone, but I doubt I'm alone in this kind of ratio. DLC generally seems to work a lot differently and we're still figuring out exactly how to wrap our heads around it. But, in general, I think it's been getting easier.
As it stands, I'd say the big shocking DLC reveals (minus Plant) were these three right here:

I'm sure we can be surprised again, but this fact remains and I think most people can agree with it:
The surprise of Joker / Terry / Sephiroth (individually) can never happen again. At least not really in the same way.

Joker opened up the discussion to more modern icons and characters further separated from Nintendo. Terry opened it up to smaller series and companies that the community had been glossing over. Sephiroth reminded people that third-party series can actually get more characters. Are there more barriers to break? Yeah probably, but... the fact that we're discussing characters like Sora and Master Chief without a shred of irony speaks volumes. The fact that people in this community even know what the **** Falcom is means a lot. We've come a long way and it's getting harder and harder to really shock people.

The rest of our surprises were more situational. Byleth was expected to be FP2, Steve was highly discussed but just fell off for a while, Pyra / Mythra were heavily speculated but just didn't come with Rex. I wouldn't say the characters themselves were surprising, just the contexts of their inclusions. Hell, in general I think FP2 has been a lot more surface level. We have two characters from major Switch titles, and another two of the most popular video game characters of all time. FP1 was more of a wildcard pack.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think we've dried the well of feasible rules to break... outside of maybe like "never appeared on Nintendo" or like, the one per company "rule", but those don't feel so set in stone anymore to begin with and the possibilities have been discussed in depth already. I know that a lot of people hold this perspective that no matter what we can NEVER predict what comes next, but I disagree. In general I've grown kinda tired of hearing that, because it's a generalization and refusing to think about why we were wrong before and get ahead of the game next time.

I just think that it took a while for the full picture to become clearer. We've never had Nintendo explicitly choose all the characters. We're pretty much playing by a whole different ruleset now, so it's natural for that to have been harder to grasp at first - but with time comes understanding, and I can't imagine it getting any crazier than Joker or Sephiroth nor can that same level of "what the **** how is this possible" ever happen again, because we KNOW it's possible now. But hey, I'll be the first to laugh and say they totally got me next time if they decide to drop some megaton groundbreaking reveal once again.

One big surprise I think could happen is a more region-centric character. Those are often dismissed on the basis of past precedent and, in the case of Japan-slanted characters, citing the Takamaru interview. Pretty much every character who's rather niche in the West gets dismissed regardless of size in their home turf, and the same goes for Western characters (Though not as much; We seem to prefer the Japan-appeal anime stuff around these parts). I think someone like Sakura, who's largely concentrated in Japan or... Let's say Rayman, for a Western analogue, would blindside a lot of people.

Yeah, they have a lot of supporters, but I think the popular opinion regarding their chances are divisive at best. Just about any time someone says they're likely, there's a pretty noticeable schism between supporters and detractors. The doors have been opened up quite a bit throughout the cycle, but even with Terry, I've still seen a lot of people decide some smaller or more lopsided characters are off the table. We've learned and adapted, but I think there's still room to grow regarding expectations and predictions.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Aside from the lack of stuff to go off of-Or perhaps leading into it-I think the big problem is that everyone goes by different standards, and half the time all the debates won't go anywhere, because just because we're talking about the same thing doesn't mean we see the same way. Take Reimu, for example. Fandom-driven, massively popular in Japan specifically, much of it's popularity in general comes from osmosis. One person walks in, sees how widespread Touhou is through all the fanworks, and thinks, "Oh yeah, she's got a good shot." The next person walks in, sees the awkward lopsided popularity, and thinks "Nah, she'll just go the way of Takamaru." Then they argue back and forth, with the first one saying the widespread popularity is good, while the other insists that her games aren't localized properly and that instantly means she's impossible.

Both are focused on one thing, and don't give much thought to the other. In their eyes, what they're focused on is more important than the other guy's counterpoint, and so their arguments just don't go anywhere because they can't agree on what takes priority. And don't even get me started on how the fangames affect her; We've never seen anything like that, and so everyone has a different view on what they mean. Take out the fangames, change Reimu for Sakura, and it's the same; One side thinks the pros take priority, the other focuses on the cons. They can't find a way to appeal to the other side and convince them otherwise, and so the arguments drag on and on and on and on.

And aside from that, I'm just not a very argumentative person. Half of the time, whenever I get a reply that disagrees I just decide not to answer because the debates are tiring, and my brain immediately freezes up and refuses to make any good counterpoints or comebacks. Speculating is fun; Debating isn't.

Man, I wish I could be more accepting of different opinions from mine. Like, I like to think I'm pretty leniant, but even I have my issues with certain characters. Honestly, I get tired just GLANCING at debates sometimes.

I really wish we could hurry up already...

 

[Guynamednelson]

outside of maybe like "never appeared on Nintendo" or like, the one per company "rule

there's also the "no ATs as DLC fighters" rule

 

[Perkilator]

I had a slightly cursed idea: what if Solgaleo was in Ultimate instead of ?

 

[SharkLord]

I had a slightly cursed idea: what if Solgaleo was in Ultimate instead of ?

Press F for Lunala, Pokemon Moon gets the shaft today

 

[SNEKeater]

All that Sega talk from before has me rethinking Kiryu a bit too. Did we count him out too early? As several people have pointed out the punching women interview follows another interview where they said Kiryu in Smash would be cool, so it’s a pretty weird situation.

I feel Yakuza is comparable to Persona in its cross-console appeal and its strong surge in western popularity over the last few years despite being around for a while.

So I suppose the case can be made - although yeah, it doesn’t seem like Yakuza is on its way to Switch anytime soon and doesn’t have much connection beyond that. At least Persona had Strikers down the road, however much that skewed things. There’s also the fact that the series is straight up called “Yakuza” and Smash is an E10+ game, but I try not to weigh that kind of stuff too heavily.

Yakuza is actually called Like a Dragon in Japan ("Ryu Ga Gotoku", which IMO is a title that does a better job at capturing the feel of the series) but yeah, everywhere else the series is known as Yakuza. Could it be a problem? I guess so. At worst I guess they could repeat what they did for the Travis and Altair costumes in USA and avoid mentioning the name of the series. In this case, they could just use Like a Dragon, but it would be kinda weird.

At the same time, I don't think having the yakuza word in the game would suppose a problem in terms of CERO and all. I guess I could see some clickbait article about "fathers are disgusted that their children are playing a cartoony game that now has Yakuza characters", but that would be it, I believe.

I personally never count out Kiryu. I never saw that interview as a disconfirmation, and I think your comparison with Persona in terms of appeal and strong surge of popularity in the past years is a very good one.

Not that I feel like Kiryu is a frontrunner: I'm not expecting him, but considering some of the characters we got, I could totally see him getting in. It would be still pretty shocking for different reasons, but it wouldn't blindside us as much as Joker, Terry or Sephiroth.

 

[DevaAshera]

Was there any word on whether Pyra and Mythra would get 2 different Amiibo or just Pyra or would the 2 be put together? I don’t keep up much on Amiibo but I’m curious about this.

We have no info on Fighters Pass 2 amiibo yet, but if they happen, both Pyra and Mythra should get amiibo figures since, unlike male & female Byleth, they are technically separate characters according to Smash, having their own individual numbers and all.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Actually, we already have two of those: The Power Battle and The Power Fighters.

Hardly though. It's more like a Mega Man boss rush than an actual fighting game. None of the Robot Masters are even playable.

Happy Birthday to Super Paper Mario!

Happy Birthday Game-that-ruined-the-Mario-RPG-franchise!

I would love to make one, and maybe at some point I will. The starting roster would be something like this:

OR...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

...everyone is here.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

What about you, people? Do you think that speculation for Smash, be it Ultimate's DLC or in general, was really hard, or overall you have seen a lot of characters coming?

On the base game I predicted Ridley, Simon Belmont, Isabelle and Dark samus (I start making predictions after Inkling's reveal so I don't count them but it was pretty obvious). I also figured we would get a gen 7 Pokémon, but I was predicting Lycanroc because of how it was used in the anime. In the dlc the only one that I got right was Steve. Honestly I don't really care about being right or wrong, I'm just here because I like to discuss and like to read others opinions.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think we've dried the well of feasible rules to break... outside of maybe like "never appeared on Nintendo" or like, the one per company "rule", but those don't feel so set in stone anymore to begin with and the possibilities have been discussed in depth already. I know that a lot of people hold this perspective that no matter what we can NEVER predict what comes next, but I disagree. In general I've grown kinda tired of hearing that, because it's a generalization and refusing to think about why we were wrong before and get ahead of the game next time.

I just think that it took a while for the full picture to become clearer. We've never had Nintendo explicitly choose all the characters. We're pretty much playing by a whole different ruleset now, so it's natural for that to have been harder to grasp at first - but with time comes understanding, and I can't imagine it getting any crazier than Joker or Sephiroth nor can that same level of "what the **** how is this possible" ever happen again, because we KNOW it's possible now. But hey, I'll be the first to laugh and say they totally got me next time if they decide to drop some megaton groundbreaking reveal once again.

Yeah at this point personally the only thing that would really surprise me would be a Sony characters (most likely either Kratos or Ratchet & Clank). It's crazy that we're at the point that even Master chief is discussed quite frequently here.

And aside from that, I'm just not a very argumentative person. Half of the time, whenever I get a reply that disagrees I just decide not to answer because the debates are tiring, and my brain immediately freezes up and refuses to make any good counterpoints or comebacks. Speculating is fun; Debating isn't.

I'm exactly like you, Like earlier when we were talking about Sakura, I could have continue and the debate about her could have continue for 10 pages, but in the end it's just a video games, I don't have that much energy to put into that. I like discussing, but I don't care really if people don't share my opinions. Of course, I'm open to reading others, I'm not trying to say that I'm stubborn, it's just that overly long debate about video game characters can get annoying fast.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm exactly like you, Like earlier when we were talking about Sakura, I could have continue and the debate about her could have continue for 10 pages, but in the end it's just a video games, I don't have that much energy to put into that. I like discussing, but I don't care really if people don't share my opinions. Of course, I'm open to reading others, I'm not trying to say that I'm stubborn, it's just that overly long debate about video game characters can get annoying fast.

Yeah, disagreements can drag out pretty quickly. It's all too easy to just start repeating the same things over and over again, not think of any good counterpoints or evidence, and just forget what started the debate in the first place. It's much less draining and more fun when you find something you can get behind; Something you agree with, or want to learn more of.

 

[N3ON]

I enjoy debating. I'm good at disagreeing, and I don't have a problem being the only one standing by a point.

Hence the join date and post count.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yakuza series creator Toshihiro Nagoshi doesn’t think Sakurai would want Yakuza characters in Smash Bros - PowerUp!

In a recent interview with IGN Japan, Yakuza series creator Toshihiro Nagoshi was asked if he thought Yakuza characters Kazuma Kiryu or Goro Majima would or could appear in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Nagoshi laughed at the suggestion and said; Mr. Sakurai would not want them (laughs). It is all...

powerup-gaming.com

Can anyone tell me how the url unfurl tag works? It never works for me even when I copy and paste it. There's no button for it in the interface, right?

 

[ForsakenM]

Zoinks Scoob! Having the wrong opinion in this thread is, like, terrifying! Like, let's get out of here!

In reality though, I do have to say, I find it hilarious that people think I'm either supporting something or attempting to give credibility to something when I'm not doing anything of the sort...reminds me of when the Geno Thread accused me of being super upset and hateful over the inclusion of an ARMS character when I literally said that I was excited to see how they would play even if I was momentarily disappointed by the choice. Funnily enough, that also ties into another time I chastised Fatman some something he did, but it's clear the thread never wishes to speak of are certain event or person unless it's to belittle or mock said event or person, however as an ending clause I would like to point out that Neon was the one who brought up both of these things when I myself haven't even thought about either of them for months. Looks like it's on your mind a lot more than it should be, stop letting it weigh you down bud.

I have called a total of two characters; Byleth and Pyra. I didn't expect Byleth to come in FP1 rather than FP2, though I was still pretty happy (Which is a... Divisive opinion, even a year afterwards), and I didn't expect Pyra to fight solo rather than with Rex.

My problem is that I only really focus on the small-ish circle of characters I'm interested in, but oh well. I'm not terribly invested in who does or doesn't get in, since I've been satisfied with everyone so far, from Piranha Plant to Sephiroth. If I'm wrong, I'll probably be able to enjoy whoever we did get anyways.

I've found I'm among the most lenient people here when it comes to predictions. I've suggested smaller, more region-centric characters like Reimu and Sakura, whereas half of everyone has brushed them off, citing the interview that said why Takamaru didn't make it, and I'm still sticking with Lloyd until they actually reveal that costume, patterns be damned. Each reveal shatters expectations further and further, and barely anyone would've predicted Joker, Terry, or Min Min before their reveal. As a result, I've decided to just shrug and go "Hey, it could happen" as my default mindset.

The only character groups I've been really harsh with are any series with post-launch content, and settings that already have a decent level of content. With the former, I think any big content pack from a series would have them all together, and I doubt we'd be getting two fighters from the same series in the DLC cycle. For the latter, I've been looking at the DLC in terms of the brand, rather than just the fighter. It feels like it's trying to represent the game (Or series, or entire company in Terry's case) as a whole with the character as a focal point, rather than just having a fighter with some stuff in the background. As such, I'm not very optimistic on series that already have a decent amount of content.

Don't let the costume be the reason you give up on Lloyd, it's going to come back no matter what. It's not even about patterns at this point, it's LITERALLY the only missing 3rd Party costume from Smash 4 and it WILL be coming back. Really doesn't mean anything about his chances anyway.

I think I quoted the wrong post, but personally I haven't really called characters so much as worked with others to get close but still be wrong, other than times when it was quite obvious who was coming. My talents lie more in taking information to line up events to suggest things that are likely/are not likely to happen, and with characters it's been much clearer I'm better at suggesting who WON'T get in than who will.

For an example, I was confident on Banjo when many other people already had been for a while, though many of them backpedaled while I held on firm. This was also before we had clear leaks and was just based on timing and merchandise, but I don't see it as particularly impressive. As an example of getting close but being wrong, my friends and I have gotten the company who owns the character right up until Pyra/Mythra for Pass 2. We called 1st Party, Microsoft and then Square, but for characters we had settled on Waluigi (which in hindset made no sense there), Master Chief (when it was clear Steve was the more likely pick due to his big rise in popularity) and of course Geno (this was more of an attempt to use the Law of Attraction, but Geno really isn't a Game Awards kind of reveal and I didn't have much true faith in it, as Sephiroth was a really good pick and was the next logical step).

As for those I've said wouldn't happen, that list is rather long and would likely piss people off, so I'll avoid that for now. Gotta get my image up in the polls, ya know?

 

[BlondeLombax]

reminds me of when the Geno Thread accused me of being super upset and hateful over the inclusion of an ARMS character when I literally said that I was excited to see how they would play even if I was momentarily disappointed by the choice.

Are they really that spiteful? I’ve only heard stories.

 

[ForsakenM]

I enjoy debating. I'm good at disagreeing, and I don't have a problem being the only one standing by a point.

Hence the join date and post count.

I respect the gif choice, though I wonder if it's because you are good at it or because you seem invested in it more than doing other things...or a lack of other things to do.

Speaking of a debate and probably pissing people off even with a less triggering topic, I've been mulling over the thought about future content.

So I'm very much of the stance that we will get more characters, I consider this a given. Between Furakawa's statement of how much money Pass 1 and now Pass 2 have made and his plans to continue pursuing DLC in the future and the fact that the sales numbers of Ultimate skyrocketed to match launch sales with Steve's reveal and only dropped off with Pyra/Mythra's reveal, it's just the logical course of action. My question here is, how do they choose to continue this?

So of course they COULD just do another pass, but I'm having some qualms about this. Sakurai himself suggests that these presentations of his will be coming to a close at the end of this pass, and outside of the end of content this could mean a couple things.

It could mean that they have made so much profit that they can now craft more gameplay breakdowns like Joker's, but I actually think it's something different. See, if you actually look into it, Furakawa wasn't President of Nintendo until mid-2018. This would suggest that Kimishima was involved with Ultimate during more of it's development. I don't currently have a source quote for this, but apparently Furakawa was on record saying that he likes to have it so that devs that work with Nintendo can do things mostly as they please...well, Sakurai has made it clear multiple times that he dislikes the idea of having us by a whole pass before knowing who all is in it. What if, perhaps, content will continue for Ultimate, but presentation will be more in vain of Smash 4 in which we have big presentations that reveal multiple things and instead of a pass that gives the number of characters, we just get new reveals when they happen with no long-lasting anticipation waiting for the next big event for Sakurai to show up?

It could be that Sakurai would prefer this method, and thus after Pass 2 concludes he is no longer contractually bound in the same way as he was before with Kimishima and Furakawa is letting him announce things how he wishes to.

Another alternative, which I would really REALLY hate but is possible, is a Smash Ultimate 'Encore' or 'Deluxe' in which the entire game gets re-released much in the same way as Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 was to OG MvC3: mostly the same, with small tweaks and some overhauls, but also with new characters and stages just added to the base roster that you cannot get with for the previous version. Considering we all know the heavy rumors of a new Switch that can hit 4K while docked, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Smash Ultimate could get a facelift to match that and bring some more freshness to both itself and the Switch.

Are they really that spiteful? I’ve only heard stories.

Every fan base has it's bad eggs, sadly. I'm used to my stance being pulled apart and sewn back together into a funny-looking strawman though, so it's no big deal.

 

[Idon]

Can anyone tell me how the url unfurl tag works? It never works for me even when I copy and paste it. There's no button for it in the interface, right?

There isn't. Website articles tend to just embed by themselves when I paste their links directly.
For example, what snek posted:

Yakuza series creator Toshihiro Nagoshi doesn’t think Sakurai would want Yakuza characters in Smash Bros - PowerUp!

In a recent interview with IGN Japan, Yakuza series creator Toshihiro Nagoshi was asked if he thought Yakuza characters Kazuma Kiryu or Goro Majima would or could appear in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Nagoshi laughed at the suggestion and said; Mr. Sakurai would not want them (laughs). It is all...

powerup-gaming.com

 

[cothero]

So, which games who haven't got a spirit event yet you guys think could have a character in FP2?

My bets: Euden (Dracalia Lost), Lloyd or another protag (Tales) and Dante (DMC).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...everyone is here.

As a passion project developed over decades, perhaps eventually. A 96+ roster wouldn't be feasible with a normal dev cycle. There's lot's of cool things the Robot Masters could do, so I'd probably add a lot of them provided I could get the ball rolling in the first place.

Happy Birthday Game-that-ruined-the-Mario-RPG-franchise!

I think it's more the fault of Nintendo strangling creativity from the Mario PRGs than anything else. That and the Paper Mario director's desire to scrap everything they can't build upon from the previous game.

 

[---]

Was there any word on whether Pyra and Mythra would get 2 different Amiibo or just Pyra or would the 2 be put together? I don’t keep up much on Amiibo but I’m curious about this.

Not sure why there wouldn't considering there's 4 different Pokemon Trainer amiibo. Would assume that just like the previous game, there's probably placeholder data in the character files for eventual amiibo. I remember people showing off stuff for characters like Mr. Game & Watch well before their amiibo figures were announced.

I enjoy debating. I'm good at disagreeing, and I don't have a problem being the only one standing by a point.

Hence the join date and post count.

I can't think of anyone else who retired from the site staff just so they could argue with people more.

 

[DevaAshera]

Not sure why there wouldn't considering there's 4 different Pokemon Trainer amiibo. Would assume that just like the previous game, there's probably placeholder data in the character files for eventual amiibo. I remember people showing off stuff for characters like Mr. Game & Watch well before their amiibo figures were announced.

Yup, and like the Pokémon that are part of the Pokémon Trainer, Pyra & Mythra are both numbered separately rather than together like the Koopalings or Alph, so its likely they'd both get amiibo.

I will say though, I'm a little annoyed that characters like female Byleth, female Robin, & Alph don't have amiibo figures..I can understand no doing so for the Koopalings though, considering that's 7 additional characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There isn't. Website articles tend to just embed by themselves when I paste their links directly.

Oh. It just does it on it's own?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Hmm, so it does. Thanks!

As a passion project developed over decades, perhaps eventually. A 96+ roster wouldn't be feasible with a normal dev cycle. There's lot's of cool things the Robot Masters could do, so I'd probably add a lot of them provided I could get the ball rolling in the first place.

Personally, if I was going to have a Mega Man fighting game, I'd go with the X series. The Mavericks are just more interesting visually and movesetwise than the Robot Masters.

 

[Cosmic77]

Cloud, Corrin, and Bayo got lucky, and they may have never gotten two amiibo each had the wait not been so incredibly long. Then there's ROB who had to be painted two different colors because of regional differences.

Aside from them though, I don't believe we've gotten any amiibo of alts, and that should say all we need to know about how big a priority alt characters and gender swaps are to Nintendo. If Mythra was just an alt like the four amiibo I mentioned before, then they could easily get away with not giving her an amiibo. She's not though, which is why I don't think it'd be fair to skip her. Technically speaking, she should be a higher priority than Echoes since she actually has a number assigned to her.