Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Ivander]

tfw you're the only one who actually likes Tails around here

Well you aren't the only one. I like playing him in the 2D Sonics and I enjoyed him in the Sonic Adventures.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well you aren't the only one. I like playing him in the 2D Sonics and I enjoyed him in the Sonic Adventures.

Same here, to be honest.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ah, I just remembered an idea I had about Tails: What if he were to be a transformation character, where he'd switch between doing the fighting himself and doing the fighting while piloting the Cyclone?

You mean his plane? Is that what his mech is in Sonic Adventure 2 or are we getting weird with things?

I'm not entirely certain it would be worth making him 2 characters, especially if they're Sonic with a twist and Dr. Eggman with a twist, but it is a fairly interesting concept.

 

[Will]

As in Eggman without a mech?

If that's how Sakurai wants to roll with him

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

The issue with this DLC is that it's been going for almost three years.
Eventually, we repeat the same stuff over, and over again. And with a lack of insiders or picture leaks, there's nothing much to add.
Which is why I haven't been following it as closely as the previous entry, where we expected to have all DLC characters in one year.

 

[Technomage]

You mean his plane? Is that what his mech is in Sonic Adventure 2 or are we getting weird with things?

I'm not entirely certain it would be worth making him 2 characters, especially if they're Sonic with a twist and Dr. Eggman with a twist, but it is a fairly interesting concept.

Yes, I was talking about the mech from Adventure 2, though I did learn that it also has a plane mode and a car mode. Let your imagination go wild there. :D

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think a nice happy medium would be knowing what the next character is going to be, so we can speculate, but always have something to look forward to.

Yes, I was talking about the mech from Adventure 2, though I did learn that it also has a plane mode and a car mode. Let your imagination go wild there. :D

It's also a car?!?

 

[Gnateb]

Sorry that this is off topic, but I'm curious about something. The popular opinion seems to be that Bandai Namco won't get another character in ultimate, but nobody I've seen has explained why they feel that way. Am I missing some evidence which hurts Bamco's chances or...?

 

[Technomage]

Sorry that this is off topic, but I'm curious about something. The popular opinion seems to be that Bandai Namco won't get another character in ultimate, but nobody I've seen has explained why they feel that way. Am I missing some evidence which hurts Bamco's chances or...?

I think it's mainly because Namco has gone for so long without a new Smash character after Pac-Man.

 

[Cosmic77]

Sorry that this is off topic, but I'm curious about something. The popular opinion seems to be that Bandai Namco won't get another character in ultimate, but nobody I've seen has explained why they feel that way. Am I missing some evidence which hurts Bamco's chances or...?

Everyone has a different reason, but for me, seeing two Namco costumes randomly return in two separate bundles isn't a good sign.

At this point, Lloyd is the only reason why I haven't completely given up, but even then it seems incredibly likely that he'll just return in the next two bundles.

 

[Technomage]

I think a nice happy medium would be knowing what the next character is going to be, so we can speculate, but always have something to look forward to.


It's also a car?!?

Yeah, I totally forgot about Tails' driving mission in SA2:

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sorry that this is off topic, but I'm curious about something. The popular opinion seems to be that Bandai Namco won't get another character in ultimate, but nobody I've seen has explained why they feel that way. Am I missing some evidence which hurts Bamco's chances or...?

Bandai-Namco's candidates are:

• Augumon (Dark Horse)
• Lloyd (Extremely unlikely)
• Heihachi (Disconfirmed)
• Dark Souls Character (Dark Horse)

That's why.

 

[N3ON]

I don't disagree, I think you make a good case here and it's for this reason I wouldn't be completely shell-shocked if Sega didn't get anything new like I was when Capcom took such a major hit. Sega got all their costumes back and they do have a substantial amount of involvement as is.

As far as returning companies that could get additional characters though, I still find Sega's absence from FP2 to generally be a good thing over its more direct competition. While Capcom got all those costumes last time, Konami / Namco have been getting them sporadically, SE and Microsoft already have characters in FP2... None of these 100% disqualify them, but it at least makes it easier to envision Sega being in a better position to receive something new. That's where my stance is mostly founded, and in general my personal belief that the remaining two characters will come from already represented companies.

I get it. I made a post a while ago that it seems like none of the existing third-parties seem likely to get another character at this point. But that probably won't be the case, and I guess someone has to be likeliest.

But I don't really see a frontrunner. It just seems a competition between those who appear unlikely and those who appear even less likely. Like I think SNK is pretty much done, and with Bomberman basically twice deconfirmed I'd be incredibly surprised to see anyone from Konami.

It would be easier to give Sega the odds if they had more viable candidates, but I think they're hurting in that regard. Like, Capcom, Namco, SE and Microsoft all seem unlikely as well for various reasons, but they also all still have, imo, more viable options than Sega does. So it kinda equals out to me.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sorry that this is off topic, but I'm curious about something. The popular opinion seems to be that Bandai Namco won't get another character in ultimate, but nobody I've seen has explained why they feel that way. Am I missing some evidence which hurts Bamco's chances or...?

It's complicated, but basically we already have two of their three Mii Costumes back (one of which was their main frontrunner), they've gone so long without a new character, and possibly something to do with the guy at the company who insists they don't port any of their games to Switch because it's a "kiddie console", though that last is more of a conspiracy than anything...

 

[SharkLord]

Sorry that this is off topic, but I'm curious about something. The popular opinion seems to be that Bandai Namco won't get another character in ultimate, but nobody I've seen has explained why they feel that way. Am I missing some evidence which hurts Bamco's chances or...?

It's a mix of A: Bamco going on for so long without getting another character, despite making the game, and B: Heihachi and Gil's costumes coming separately. I'm personally fine with third-party Miis, provided it's not an entire wave like with Capcom where we get four dumped at once, but not everyone sees it that way. Doesn't help that Lloyd is considered Bamco's best bet by many, and with the threat of his Mii Costume looming... Yeah, doesn't paint it in a good light.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...and possibly something to do with the guy at the company who insists they don't port any of their games to Switch because it's a "kiddie console", though that last is more of a conspiracy than anything...

This is a mistranslation. I believe he said something more along the lines of the Switch's audience being younger on average, and probably wouldn't go for something like Dark Souls.

EDIT: lol I put Yakusa when it's a Sega IP.

 

[Gnateb]

It's a mix of A: Bamco going on for so long without getting another character, despite making the game, and B: Heihachi and Gil's costumes coming separately. I'm personally fine with third-party Miis, provided it's not an entire wave like with Capcom where we get four dumped at once, but not everyone sees it that way. Doesn't help that Lloyd is considered Bamco's best bet by many, and with the threat of his Mii Costume looming... Yeah, doesn't paint it in a good light.

Ok yeah, they've gone quite a while without a new character. Considering their involvement with Ultimate, it probably would have happened by now.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Yes, I was talking about the mech from Adventure 2, though I did learn that it also has a plane mode and a car mode. Let your imagination go wild there. :D

Yeah, it's a Triple Changer! It's properly called "The Cyclone". It's a small plane (that looks like the Tornado 2 but is NOT the Tornado 2), it turns into the walker, it turns into a car.

It came back briefly in the IDW Comics, but it got blown to smithereens when him and the rest of the Restoration (what The Resistance became after Sonic Forces) had to ditch it in order to escape the Zombots

I think a nice happy medium would be knowing what the next character is going to be, so we can speculate, but always have something to look forward to.


It's also a car?!?

Yes, it turns into a car.


STAY WITH ME, THIS IS REAL:

The cops showed up to arrest Sonic, so Tails shot at the cops so Sonic could get away. Then he needed to get into the President's Limo, so he turned it into a car and got in a high speed chase down the road as he chased down the President's Limo, knocking other cars off the road with the slightest touch.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm kinda hesitant on another Sonic rep. From where I stand, it seems like the focus is on the entire pack and not just the character, and the three repeat series up to now represent parts of the series that aren't heavily represented (Which is funny in a sad sort of way because Final Fantasy as a whole wasn't properly represented until Sephiroth). Sonic already has quite a bit of content, and I feel like Nintendo might consider it good enough with what it has. That being said, I would have a problem with it. I have fond memories of Sonic, and some higher-quality representation would be much appreciated.

Arle does seem like a viable candidate. Puyo Puyo's doing well lately, and it has quite a history in the arcade scene. Kinda surprised we don't talk about her more, now that I think about it. Though, I don't know enough about the series to say, so I'd assume it's something along the lines of that.

I think the interview put a kibosh in Kiryu discussion, despite a previous interview saying otherwise. Still, Yakuza's a rising star in Sega's catalogue and I could see Kiryu being added as a Joker-type character; Someone who isn't readily associated with Nintendo. We've had that with Snake and Cloud, too. I could see another one like that happening this pass (Not counting Sephiroth, since FF7 is on the Switch now).

I think Sakura could happen if Nintendo wants a Japan-appeal character, but only if they're looking for a Japan-appeal character specifically. It seems to me that Nintendo takes the pros into consideration more than the cons, like how Joker was added despite his lack of Nintendo presence, Hero being added despite DQ's relatively niche status in the West, and Banjo's inclusion despite the franchise's dormant nature. Persona 5 was still a recent Smash hit, Dragon Quest was still a juggernaut in Japan, and Banjo was a massive fan-favorite character. Sakura Wars in a similar spot to Dragon Quest, albeit even more lopsided, and I do think Sakura Wars is possible if Nintendo wants a Japan-appeal character specifically.

SMT could happen, but I don't really have enough knowledge on the series to really go in-depth on it.

Even if Nintendo wanted a more Japan-centric character, I don't see them going with Sakura before Puyo puyo. Puyo puyo have a bigger legacy, is more close to Nintendo, is more popular in the West (although that doesn't mean a lot considering that pretty much every Sega franchise is more popular than Sakura wars in the West), and more popular in Japan too. I basically see no reason why they would chose Sakura, unless they really want to promote the 2019 (2020 in the West) reboot, but at this point it will be 1 year since it's release so I don't think that's it.

I have two other Sega characters that are not discussed and I could see them being in Smash (although I would say they have less chances than Puyo puyo or second Sonic rep). The first is Axel Stone from Streets of rage. The game just got a reboot which was very well received and have sold 1,5 million games. The problem is that considering that this reboot was released last year, I think the timing would not really work with the moment the character was decided, but I think it's still a possibility if Nintendo wanted a more retro character like Terry in a way.

The second would be Hatsune Miku. Now I know that this one is controversial because she's not a video game characters, but I feel like she's close enough to being one that she could be in Smash (she originated from a computer software but I would argue that the games are more popular than the software itself). Besides, her games are fairly popular with total sales of the franchise being at 6 millions. The franchise is very active and the franchise and characters is extremely popupar in Japan (probably more than Puyo puyo, although it's hard to really say because both are popular in a different way). She's in a weird spot because I'm not sure if Sakurai would want her becasue of his rules, but I think this is a character that Nintendo could be interested in considering how big she is in Japan.

 

[N3ON]

and possibly something to do with the guy at the company who insists they don't port any of their games to Switch because it's a "kiddie console", though that last is more of a conspiracy than anything...

Possible mistranslation and dubious relevance aside, wasn't this Nagoshi from Sega? Not anyone from Namco.

 

[Technomage]

Talking about Tails and his SA2 mech has reminded me of something similar: If Eggman were to be playable in his Eggwalker, should Big the Cat be one of his alternate costumes (like in SA2)? I'd find that kinda amusing, while also considering it a cool little easter egg.

 

[Louie G.]

For what it’s worth, I do think certain characters could be exempt from the Mii situation for their respective companies.

Like, I don’t know if I completely buy that Dark Souls is directly impacted by the status of the other Namco stuff? It falls into this weird area since it’s a Namco owned series but is still very much a From Software property. I think it’s alright to be open minded about some cases like that, but it’s good to tread with caution on companies that already saw content this pass.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Possible mistranslation and dubious relevance aside, wasn't this Nagoshi from Sega? Not anyone from Namco.

Really? Could've sworn it was someone at Namco. I know somebody here was talking about it for a bit...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Possible mistranslation and dubious relevance aside, wasn't this Nagoshi from Sega? Not anyone from Namco.

I guess my mention of Yakusa was more appropriate then. lol

 

[SKX31]

Yeah, I can totally understand that. I’ve been playing Smash since the beginning with 64 but I’ve always been a strictly casual player so I never really worry too much about stuff like that. I see a lot of other fighting games with huge characters like Sentinel in MvC and they work but I imagine balancing those games are very different than Smash. I would love if there was some perfect balance where you could buff large characters enough to remain competitive but not so much that they’re broken but I wouldn’t know the first thing about how to do that.

TBF, Sentinel was considered to be bonkers good in MvC2 (partly because he could cover the entire screen with hitboxes, and fast), and Ultimate's taken major steps towards ensuring that most super-heavies aren't left in the dust. Since Smash is a platform fighter it generally favors ability to get back on stage and it has a lot more options in the air than a fighting game usually has. It's been historically why superheavies have kinda struggled amongst the tippy top (with exceptions in each game). If anything helps superheavies in Ultimate, it's that every character takes exactly the same amount of time to jump (3 frames or 1/20th of a second), as opposed to past games where that varied.

Perfect balance is really going to be difficult to next-to-impossible - but Ultimate has good balancing already. Most competitive-leaning people agree that Rool has some sauce now for example - sure it took a while (+important buffs to his Crownerang and other stuff), but still. Ridley's in a similar position. And in a game of 80+ characters... the fact that are only few that are consistently considered underpowered (whether in a casual context or otherwise) says a lot.

And outside of the tippy top, characters aren't central - players themselves are just as big of a factor. You know the games when someone's using an "unbeatable" strategy - whether using Kirby's Stone constantly, filling the screen with projectiles or something else - that the other players get frustrated by? That's an example.

I think a nice happy medium would be knowing what the next character is going to be, so we can speculate, but always have something to look forward to.


It's also a car?!?

Eggman's Eggmobile is whatever the **** the game designers want it to be.

Bandai-Namco's candidates are:

• Augumon (Dark Horse)
• Lloyd (Extremely unlikely)
• Heihachi (Disconfirmed)
• Dark Souls Character (Dark Horse)

That's why.

Sorry that this is off topic, but I'm curious about something. The popular opinion seems to be that Bandai Namco won't get another character in ultimate, but nobody I've seen has explained why they feel that way. Am I missing some evidence which hurts Bamco's chances or...?

I'd add a Soul Calibur character + Yuri Lowell / mayybe Velvet to that list, although it's really difficult to say where they stand due to the fact that Bamco have seemingly been content with letting rampage all over the screen and causing all sorts of stupid mayhem to Smash:

 

[SharkLord]

Even if Nintendo wanted a more Japan-centric character, I don't see them going with Sakura before Puyo puyo. Puyo puyo have a bigger legacy, is more close to Nintendo, is more popular in the West (although that doesn't mean a lot considering that pretty much every Sega franchise is more popular than Sakura wars in the West), and more popular in Japan too. I basically see no reason why they would chose Sakura, unless they really want to promote the 2019 (2020 in the West) reboot, but at this point it will be 1 year since it's release so I don't think that's it.

I have two other Sega characters that are not discussed and I could see them being in Smash (although I would say they have less chances than Puyo puyo or second Sonic rep). The first is Axel Stone from Streets of rage. The game just got a reboot which was very well received and have sold 1,5 million games. The problem is that considering that this reboot was released last year, I think the timing would not really work with the moment the character was decided, but I think it's still a possibility if Nintendo wanted a more retro character like Terry in a way.

The second would be Hatsune Miku. Now I know that this one is controversial because she's not a video game characters, but I feel like she's close enough to being one that she could be in Smash (she originated from a computer software but I would argue that the games are more popular than the software itself). Besides, her games are fairly popular with total sales of the franchise being at 6 millions. The franchise is very active and the franchise and characters is extremely popupar in Japan (probably more than Puyo puyo, although it's hard to really say because both are popular in a different way). She's in a weird spot because I'm not sure if Sakurai would want her becasue of his rules, but I think this is a character that Nintendo could be interested in considering how big she is in Japan.

I'm not really sure about the "X before Y" mentality. We got Joker before any larger RPGs like Dragon Quest (Which we did get, granted) or Tales (Which we didn't get), we got Terry when Tekken is arguably bigger than SNK's network of creations, and we got Min Min, of all people, as our first Spirit promotion. I think Nintendo just judges every series by it's own merits, and not as "This is better than that."

Also, if we're judging it by Sega's audience, at least, Sakura Wars was voted higher in terms of "brand investment" a while back.
Sega of Japan's Franchise Revival Poll Results Revealed! Sakura Wars Takes Victories! - Segalization

From what I can gather, it's more or less a popularity poll, and Sakura Wars was killing it in there. Keep in mind that this was during a lull period where the franchise was sent into dormancy. At the very least, I think the gap between Puyo Puyo and Sakura Wars isn't than wide, at least in Japan.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm not really sure about the "X before Y" mentality. We got Joker before any larger RPGs like Dragon Quest (Which we did get, granted) or Tales (Which we didn't get), we got Terry when Tekken is arguably bigger than SNK's network of creations, and we got Min Min, of all people, as our first Spirit promotion. I think Nintendo just judges every series by it's own merits, and not as "This is better than that."

Also, if we're judging it by Sega's audience, at least, Sakura Wars was voted higher in terms of "brand investment" a while back.
Sega of Japan's Franchise Revival Poll Results Revealed! Sakura Wars Takes Victories! - Segalization
View attachment 310686
From what I can gather, it's more or less a popularity poll, and Sakura Wars was killing it in there. Keep in mind that this was during a lull period where the franchise was sent into dormancy. At the very least, I think the gap between Puyo Puyo and Sakura Wars isn't than wide, at least in Japan.

I'm not surprised Billy Hatcher wasn't here, but I am disappointed all the same...

 

[SharkLord]

I'm not surprised Billy Hatcher wasn't here, but I am disappointed all the same...

If I had a nickel for every time you reacted with dismay towards Billy Hatcher not making the poll, I'd have two nickels. It's not much, but it's funny taht it happened twice.

Me:

Also, pour one out for Jet Set Radio. Those guys got wrecked by Sakura Wars, and nobody cares about number 2 anymore...

 

[warubyun]

I'm not really sure about the "X before Y" mentality. We got Joker before any larger RPGs like Dragon Quest (Which we did get, granted) or Tales (Which we didn't get), we got Terry when Tekken is arguably bigger than SNK's network of creations, and we got Min Min, of all people, as our first Spirit promotion. I think Nintendo just judges every series by it's own merits, and not as "This is better than that."

Also, if we're judging it by Sega's audience, at least, Sakura Wars was voted higher in terms of "brand investment" a while back.
Sega of Japan's Franchise Revival Poll Results Revealed! Sakura Wars Takes Victories! - Segalization
View attachment 310686
From what I can gather, it's more or less a popularity poll, and Sakura Wars was killing it in there. Keep in mind that this was during a lull period where the franchise was sent into dormancy. At the very least, I think the gap between Puyo Puyo and Sakura Wars isn't than wide, at least in Japan.

Seeing Shenmue there makes me imagine Ryo Hazuki as a fighter, his English VA reacting to everything as neutral and calmly as he does in his games.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not really sure about the "X before Y" mentality. We got Joker before any larger RPGs like Dragon Quest (Which we did get, granted) or Tales (Which we didn't get), we got Terry when Tekken is arguably bigger than SNK's network of creations, and we got Min Min, of all people, as our first Spirit promotion. I think Nintendo just judges every series by it's own merits, and not as "This is better than that."

Also, if we're judging it by Sega's audience, at least, Sakura Wars was voted higher in terms of "brand investment" a while back.
Sega of Japan's Franchise Revival Poll Results Revealed! Sakura Wars Takes Victories! - Segalization
View attachment 310686
From what I can gather, it's more or less a popularity poll, and Sakura Wars was killing it in there. Keep in mind that this was during a lull period where the franchise was sent into dormancy. At the very least, I think the gap between Puyo Puyo and Sakura Wars isn't than wide, at least in Japan.

Doesn't really hold when you look intra-company-wise. Remove the characters who got in due to fan demand and which series got in first? Street Fighter, Pac-Man, Final Fantasy, Minecraft, Persona, etc. These are generally among the biggest, most global skewing series the companies have. It wasn't, you know, Phoenix Wright, KOS-MOS, Crono, Demi-Fiend, etc. who have dedicated but much smaller or more regionally exclusive audiences.

Also dude Panzer Dragoon is higher than Persona on that list. Sega Saturn is higher than Persona on that list. Jet Set Radio is a full ten spots above Puyo Puyo. That is one wacky, useless (frankly), list.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

TBF, Sentinel was considered to be bonkers good in MvC2 (partly because he could cover the entire screen with hitboxes, and fast)...

It's also not a grappler, which means that it doesn't fall into the design pitfalls that grapplers usually do.

Perfect balance is really going to be difficult to next-to-impossible...

"Perfect balance" is literally just only having one character on the roster so everyone has access to the same tools (EDIT: At least, that's what I'm told), though I would like to see "semi-perfect" balance where everyone is viable at some point.

 

[Waddle!]

Geno would've been an interesting character, it's a shame he was deconfirmed. However, K Rool was a Mii Costume in Smash 4 and now he's in Ultimate, but I just don't think Sakurai's gonna make another Smash game for a while.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

However, K Rool was a Mii Costume in Smash 4 and now he's in Ultimate, but I just don't think Sakurai's gonna make another Smash game for a while.

Geno was also a Mii Costume in Smash 4....

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Geno would've been an interesting character, it's a shame he was deconfirmed. However, K Rool was a Mii Costume in Smash 4 and now he's in Ultimate, but I just don't think Sakurai's gonna make another Smash game for a while.

Last I've heard, SquareEnix doesn't want him in Super Smash Bros. because they don't want him to just be a Super Smash Bros. character, and Nintendo will never put him in anything else (or remake Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) because there is no demand for it.

If that is true, then he's probably disconfirmed forever since I don't think that's going to change.

 

[Merengue]

I feel like Nintendo would add one more villain to the Fighter's Pass for the final two characters. Maybe a first-party this time.

the Lloyd costume is the only one left. Maybe he would go with another jrpg character.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I feel like Nintendo would add one more villain to the Fighter's Pass for the final two characters. Maybe a first-party this time.

the Lloyd costume is the only one left. Maybe he would go with another jrpg character.

Pokemon is a JRPG

 

[SlickWylde]

Dr Eggman would still be my #1 choice for the next DLC, but I rate his chances as being extremely low. Tails would be cool too, but I just tend to like having the hero and their villain counterpart (I mean I'd love to have all 3...).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Random Topic: Sakurai has put a gun to your head and told you to pick a Robot Master to add to Super Smash Bros. Which one you pick? The main 8 Stardroids from Mega Man V count as Robot Masters, but the more special characters like Bass, Genesis Units, and Dark Men (Mans?) do not (because everyone's answer would be Roll, Proto Man, or Bass otherwise).

 

[SharkLord]

I feel like Nintendo would add one more villain to the Fighter's Pass for the final two characters. Maybe a first-party this time.

the Lloyd costume is the only one left. Maybe he would go with another jrpg character.

Honestly, after Pyra's wave blindsided us with an all-Capcom wave, I'm kinda hesitant to start making Mii predictions again. Nobody would've expected them to go "Hey, so this is nothing but fricking Capcom;" The popular ones were some XC2 Miis, Elma, KOS-MOS, and the obligatory prediction of Lloyd's demise.

 

[Louie G.]

the Lloyd costume is the only one left. Maybe he would go with another jrpg character.

I wouldn’t buy into that too much, we just got a full Capcom costume wave with Pyra and Mythra. We got Gil with Steve. Honestly the only time we ever really had the whole “costumes from this genre” thing was with Terry and people kinda just took it and ran.

‘d