Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I know he was in that I Choose You 20th Anniversary movie.

For reasons unexplained, they made Incineroar run on all fours, and it looked really stupid.
View attachment 310666

Has Science Gone Too Far?
Is This Image Real or Fake?

93% fail this quiz, would you?

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

For this reason I feel, if anything, SEGA is worth a lot more discussion than it's getting right now - I think if any of the current major players get something, they are far and wide the frontrunner. No content at all in this pass, making it the only totally absent third party other than SNK... which is a bit more debatable. I've been trying to pioneer that a bit but it's hard, because at the same time it's not like we have a ton of options that feel plausible either.

But let's break it down a lil for the sake of discussion, since I've already got those gears turning.

Eggman is the only one that sees consistent discussion, which is funny because I'm entirely convinced that Eggman is not happening due to the particular way Sephiroth was promoted. I'm more partial toward Tails' chances, but it's hard for some people to digest that idea with his Mii Costume existing (even within a grey area). In general I think more Sonic is the most digestible for most, and it makes sense since Sonic is by and large Sega's most profitable franchise.

I would LOVE Eggman (well, actually ANY Sonic character other than Classic Sonic, Boom or the Zeti) but yeah I'm in that same camp: Eggman's not happening. Would love him, but he's not. Sephiroth was promoted as "the villain". People kinda bandwagoned on Eggman after Sephiroth much like they bandwagoned on Fortnite after Minecraft Steve and.. yeah. Eggman... would love him. But I'm not convinced he's happening.

The good thing is... there's a small army of Sonic characters that COULD come instead. Sonic's one of those franchises: There's marketability in just about any character. Sonic fans can be THAT ravenous.

They could go for the Sonic Rush callback and have Sonic be joined by Blaze the Cat

Go full SonAmy and have Amy Rose chase him into Smash.

Promote Shadow which would both be "They promoted an Assist the rule is broken HYPE" and "another Sonic character at last"

Hit us out of left field with "literally a Chao with a Chao Garden stage"

You know us Sonic fans would eat it up. We'd eat that for breakfast lunch AND dinner.

There's more BEYOND that too, especially if you wanna get weird and pull Emerl out and go "He's the ULTIMATE ECHO FIGHTER! All of his moves and animations are a hodgepodge of previously existing fighters because that's how Emerl is; he copies the moves he sees then goes door to door asking people to fight him and they're all just like "Yeah cool let's fight" because they tolerate him and his fighting based nature"

 

[Deleted member]

If we do get another Sonic character I’d be disappointed if it isn’t Eggman. Of the major contenders you have Knuckles and Shadow who are Assists already, so that leaves Tails who I find to be quite boring in comparison. Like he’s just a smarter Sonic with a few gadgets, so why not go for the guy who has tons of mechs and personality out the wazoo?

I also don’t see how Sephiroth hurts Eggman. Like of course they’re going to treat Sephiroth as a boss character, he’s ****ing Sephiroth. Eggman is much goofier so it’s not like he could pull that off nearly as well anyway. It’s worth noting Sephiroth didn’t come with a villains tourney either, just a darkness themed one. Tourneys don’t mean much but Eggman is not out of the running by any means.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

HEYYYYYYYYY speaking of Sonic

Rumor: Sonic Colors Remastered in the works

Update: Sonic Colors Ultimate has been listed by French retailer Sogamely. If the retailer is to be believed, it’ll be on Switch and other platforms. The listing does not contain any concrete details and it’s unclear if there’s any correlation to the iksample discovery. Original: Sonic Colors...

nintendoeverything.com

Perhaps the colors will be so bright again, and perhaps even FEEL so right again too.

Kinda lines up with what Zippo was saying about "the collection" he rumored about.

Sonic's 30th Anniversary And What To Expect.

Hey all. Hope everyone reading this has had a great first month of the year. So, before we begin, let me get the reason I made this blog i...

zippospeaks.blogspot.com

Specifically the part where he says:
"

I've heard a bit more about this. Apparently, there should be a mix of ports and remasters in here. It also should be on everything, including PC and Switch. It should also feature games that have never seen a re-release before.

Additionally, I don't know this as of now, but they may also release them separately as an option, for those that just want one or two of them.

"


Sooooo... Sonic Colors slots in there nicely. Never re-released, remaster, possibly able to be bought separately....

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

It’s worth noting Sephiroth didn’t come with a villains tourney either, just a darkness themed one.

There goes another one of my predictions...

 

[SharkLord]

For this reason I feel, if anything, SEGA is worth a lot more discussion than it's getting right now - I think if any of the current major players get something, they are far and wide the frontrunner. No content at all in this pass, making it the only totally absent third party other than SNK... which is a bit more debatable. I've been trying to pioneer that a bit but it's hard, because at the same time it's not like we have a ton of options that feel plausible either.

But let's break it down a lil for the sake of discussion, since I've already got those gears turning.

Eggman is the only one that sees consistent discussion, which is funny because I'm entirely convinced that Eggman is not happening due to the particular way Sephiroth was promoted. I'm more partial toward Tails' chances, but it's hard for some people to digest that idea with his Mii Costume existing (even within a grey area). In general I think more Sonic is the most digestible for most, and it makes sense since Sonic is by and large Sega's most profitable franchise.

Outside of Sonic there's Arle, who I will always campaign for but I've lost a good deal of confidence in... but Puyo Puyo is a massively significant series, Sega's second biggest and one that has had longstanding history and presence on Nintendo. It's hard for a more abstract character like her to take off because of her cutesy appearance and unconventional genre, although it seems like most people at least acknowledge her as a possibility.

Kiryu is in a weird position because of contradicting interviews, but neither of them really help him out very much. From an interview saying they don't believe Sakurai wants Kiryu in Smash, to the other where they say it would be wrong to have Kiryu punch women. Even if we take the latter out of the picture, the former isn't great. Otherwise Yakuza has really been growing in popularity and would be worth keeping an eye on.

Sakura exists, and Sakura Wars has been emerging as a major player for Sega and inching toward more of a western presence... but I think she needs a little more time. This is one of those characters where I could see them having a much stronger case next time around. As of now I think Sakura Wars just has some more growing to do in reaching a wider international audience.

And then there's still an opportunity for Shin Megami Tensei, most notably Demi-Fiend I would say. It's been a bit unfairly counted out because of Joker, but Persona really is treated like its own separate thing and explicitly SMT content literally doesn't exist in Smash yet. SMTV is on the horizon, Nocturne remake is a thing, there's at least a case to me made for this one but there's always that slight dissociation because Joker made it.

I'm kinda hesitant on another Sonic rep. From where I stand, it seems like the focus is on the entire pack and not just the character, and the three repeat series up to now represent parts of the series that aren't heavily represented (Which is funny in a sad sort of way because Final Fantasy as a whole wasn't properly represented until Sephiroth). Sonic already has quite a bit of content, and I feel like Nintendo might consider it good enough with what it has. That being said, I would have a problem with it. I have fond memories of Sonic, and some higher-quality representation would be much appreciated.

Arle does seem like a viable candidate. Puyo Puyo's doing well lately, and it has quite a history in the arcade scene. Kinda surprised we don't talk about her more, now that I think about it. Though, I don't know enough about the series to say, so I'd assume it's something along the lines of that.

I think the interview put a kibosh in Kiryu discussion, despite a previous interview saying otherwise. Still, Yakuza's a rising star in Sega's catalogue and I could see Kiryu being added as a Joker-type character; Someone who isn't readily associated with Nintendo. We've had that with Snake and Cloud, too. I could see another one like that happening this pass (Not counting Sephiroth, since FF7 is on the Switch now).

I think Sakura could happen if Nintendo wants a Japan-appeal character, but only if they're looking for a Japan-appeal character specifically. It seems to me that Nintendo takes the pros into consideration more than the cons, like how Joker was added despite his lack of Nintendo presence, Hero being added despite DQ's relatively niche status in the West, and Banjo's inclusion despite the franchise's dormant nature. Persona 5 was still a recent Smash hit, Dragon Quest was still a juggernaut in Japan, and Banjo was a massive fan-favorite character. Sakura Wars in a similar spot to Dragon Quest, albeit even more lopsided, and I do think Sakura Wars is possible if Nintendo wants a Japan-appeal character specifically.

SMT could happen, but I don't really have enough knowledge on the series to really go in-depth on it.

 

[Technomage]

Allow me to add my two cents on a possible 2nd Sonic character: I do still think there's a chance of either Infinite or the Avatar character being chosen as a loose-ends kind of thing for Sonic Forces (even if that chance isn't that big, and even though I'd prefer Eggman over the two).

If we do get another Sonic character I’d be disappointed if it isn’t Eggman. Of the major contenders you have Knuckles and Shadow who are Assists already, so that leaves Tails who I find to be quite boring in comparison. Like he’s just a smarter Sonic with a few gadgets, so why not go for the guy who has tons of mechs and personality out the wazoo?

I also don’t see how Sephiroth hurts Eggman. Like of course they’re going to treat Sephiroth as a boss character, he’s ****ing Sephiroth. Eggman is much goofier so it’s not like he could pull that off nearly as well anyway. It’s worth noting Sephiroth didn’t come with a villains tourney either, just a darkness themed one. Tourneys don’t mean much but Eggman is not out of the running by any means.

Plus, it helps that, unlike Sephy, Eggman was playable a few times before Ultimate (as well as played the hero a few times).

 

[Louie G.]

Will be kind of disappointed if my attempt at prompting a Sega discussion just becomes another Sonic discussion, but I digress...

If we do get another Sonic character I’d be disappointed if it isn’t Eggman. Of the major contenders you have Knuckles and Shadow who are Assists already, so that leaves Tails who I find to be quite boring in comparison. Like he’s just a smarter Sonic with a few gadgets, so why not go for the guy who has tons of mechs and personality out the wazoo?

I also don’t see how Sephiroth hurts Eggman. Like of course they’re going to treat Sephiroth as a boss character, he’s ****ing Sephiroth. Eggman is much goofier so it’s not like he could pull that off nearly as well anyway. It’s worth noting Sephiroth didn’t come with a villains tourney either, just a darkness themed one. Tourneys don’t mean much but Eggman is not out of the running by any means.

I like Eggman significantly better than Tails to be honest, but it's unfair to call Tails "a smarter Sonic with a few gadgets". You're ignoring the part where Tails, in addition to having those gadgets, can fly and has two giant tails to smack opponents around with. Even if he was gonna share a few moves and general ideas with Sonic, there's more than enough there to keep them distinguished.

Of course Eggman does offer more variety, but I've always felt his potential lends itself more obviously toward a boss battle rather than a playable character. To clarify, I'm not saying Eggman can't be playable or NEEDS to be a boss. I know how sensitive people are to that claim and I'm not trying to say it's the "right" way to represent him or that he's completely unviable otherwise. But I have always seen him as much more likely to appear in that role before he becomes playable, as it offers a much more explicit way to showcase his signature mechs and iconic battles - additionally because Eggman just straight up was not a popular request until very recently. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow have been requested since Brawl and practically Melee for Tails. Eggman's requests are very recent and likely too late for Nintendo to have taken particular notice of... not that Eggman himself isn't important enough to have his own credentials, but if we were teetering on Eggman or Tails (IMO pretty much equally significant characters) I think precedent could go toward the one who has been wanted for 15+ years and generally shows more obvious potential as a playable character and having Eggman appear on the stage.

And then there's the Sephiroth Challenge which like, yeah it doesn't completely disqualify Eggman, but it's hard not to recognize that Sephiroth is the only villain among a sea of goody two shoes (give or take Piranha Plant) and they stressed that heavily. Eggman is an entirely different character, but with the Sephiroth Challenge, Sakurai's emphasis on how he's a big iconic villain, his route going through all the bosses... I understand it sounds arbitrary, but I think it's at least easy to see why this would cause people to doubt him.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So for series that don't already have a character:

• Arle: Huge puzzle game in the east, and at least something most westerners have heard of. Could pretty easily be a candidate.
• Demi-Fiend: Much less likely than Arle, but a possibility nonetheless.
• Silent Hill Character: Pretty much Konami's only option, but it is a huge option, so I have confidence in believing in it.
• Agumon: Digimon often gets glossed over, and while I don't think it's incredibly likely to get a character, it's at least more likely than Tales, though I suppose that's not a high bar.
• Dragonborn: Remember, Bethezda characters didn't count as Microsoft reps when the pass was being made, so the main character from one of the longest living games I've seen is still on the table.
• Crash Bandicoot: With his resurgence being mostly successful, I'd say he's definitely on the table as well.
• Warcraft Character: I'm not sure how I feel about the chances of anything Warcraft coming, but I feel they're at least mention-able.
• Something Falcom: I don't really have enough knowledge to gauge the likelihood of anything from here, which in itself does kind of give me doubts, but I feel I should mention the possibility anyway.
• League of Legends Character: Has a pretty good shot due to its widespread popularity.
• Something Valve: I feel like it's worth mentioning due to the merits of Half Life and Portal, but I don't find it particularly likely since Nintendo and Valve don't have any sort of relationship that we know of.
• Sora: I still think Sora is available since he's a Disney character, but he's still a huge wildcard.

Probably not definitive, but this is all I had the mental capacity to think of right now. I hope I get much better sleep tonight.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ryu? Suspect, though in favor of what is indeterminable. Most people have jumped to disconfirmation.

NEVEEEEEER!!!

He actually did get a hard deconfirm, after three interviews of the same phrase over and over again

Each denial only makes him stronger!

Then you could've at least worded it as "Welp, I guess this means Hayabusa's out. I find him kinda boring, anyway."

Look, even with his 100% wrong Hayabusa opinion, you're still being unnecessarily obtuse here. It wasn't that unclear.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

If we do get another Sonic character I’d be disappointed if it isn’t Eggman. Of the major contenders you have Knuckles and Shadow who are Assists already, so that leaves Tails who I find to be quite boring in comparison. Like he’s just a smarter Sonic with a few gadgets, so why not go for the guy who has tons of mechs and personality out the wazoo?

I also don’t see how Sephiroth hurts Eggman. Like of course they’re going to treat Sephiroth as a boss character, he’s ****ing Sephiroth. Eggman is much goofier so it’s not like he could pull that off nearly as well anyway. It’s worth noting Sephiroth didn’t come with a villains tourney either, just a darkness themed one. Tourneys don’t mean much but Eggman is not out of the running by any means.

Allow me to add my two cents on a possible 2nd Sonic character: I do still think there's a chance of either Infinite or the Avatar character being chosen as a loose-ends kind of thing for Sonic Forces (even if that chance isn't that big).



Plus, it helps that, unlike Sephy, Eggman was playable a few times before Ultimate (as well as played the hero a few times).

Hehehehehehehehe. Turns out.... you GET Eggman... yeah, against all odds, he actually comes!

However... 2nd Chance Theory still lives:

Eggman's stage is from Sonic Forces aka a game that came out... Ultimate has like a couple spirits from the game (Infinite and Chaos) and a couple songs (Fist Bump and Sunset Heights)... not unlike Xenoblade 2 hehehehehehehehe

Like, it's just this, with the Death Egg Robos in the background and everything. Eggman has conquered the world and this conquered world is the stage.


The IDW comics are spun out of Sonic Forces, the Smash stage is Sonic Forces... YOU'LL NEVER ESCAPE FORCES HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Technomage]

Will be kind of disappointed if my attempt at prompting a Sega discussion just becomes another Sonic discussion, but I digress...



I like Eggman significantly better than Tails to be honest, but it's unfair to call Tails "a smarter Sonic with a few gadgets". You're ignoring the part where Tails, in addition to having those gadgets, can fly and has two giant tails to smack opponents around with. Even if he was gonna share a few moves and general ideas with Sonic, there's more than enough there to keep them distinguished.

Of course Eggman does offer more variety, but I've always felt his potential lends itself more obviously toward a boss battle rather than a playable character. To clarify, I'm not saying Eggman can't be playable or NEEDS to be a boss. I know how sensitive people are to that claim and I'm not trying to say it's the "right" way to represent him or that he's completely unviable otherwise. But I have always seen him as much more likely to appear in that role before he becomes playable, as it offers a much more explicit way to showcase his signature mechs and iconic battles - additionally because Eggman just straight up was not a popular request until very recently. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow have been requested since Brawl and practically Melee for Tails. Eggman's requests are very recent and likely too late for Nintendo to have taken particular notice of... not that Eggman himself isn't important enough to have his own credentials, but if we were teetering on Eggman or Tails (IMO pretty much equally significant characters) I think precedent could go toward the one who has been wanted for 15+ years and generally shows more obvious potential as a playable character and having Eggman appear on the stage.

And then there's the Sephiroth Challenge which like, yeah it doesn't completely disqualify Eggman, but it's hard not to recognize that Sephiroth is the only villain among a sea of goody two shoes (give or take Piranha Plant) and they stressed that heavily. Eggman is an entirely different character, but with the Sephiroth Challenge, Sakurai's emphasis on how he's a big iconic villain, his route going through all the bosses... I understand it sounds arbitrary, but I think it's at least easy to see why this would cause people to doubt him.

I see your points, though what if we were to actually have both, where Eggman Nega is either the boss or the playable character?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fun Fact: I thought Dr. Eggman was the shadow looming over Shulk at the end of his trailer, which means one or two things:

1. Metal Face and Dr. Eggman share a voice actor.
2. (more likely) I had absolutely no idea what Dr. Eggman actually sounded like.

 

[Gengar84]

Fun Fact: I thought Dr. Eggman was the shadow looming over Shulk at the end of his trailer, which means one or two things:

1. Metal Face and Dr. Eggman share a voice actor.
2. (more likely) I had absolutely no idea what Dr. Eggman actually sounded like.

He sounds like Jim Carrey.

 

[cashregister9]

I genuinely think SEGA might be one of our next characters. here is who I think and why

-Arle/Amitie: It's Puyo Puyo
-Eggman: It's Doctor ****ing Eggman
-Amy: I just think it would be funny
-Sakura/Sakura: The Pass was decided hip deep into the promotional period for the New Sakura Wars.
-Kiryu: Yakuza made waves, But the lack of any Nintendo presence while not instantly killing is a small red flag. and so was that one interview
-Demifiend: Nocturne remastered is coming out and Nocturne is quite popular when compared to the other SMT games.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

-Kiryu: Yakuza made waves, But the lack of any Nintendo presence while not instantly killing is a small red flag.

I don't think that's much of an issue, though he does apparently have a disconfirmation interview. I don't really know when it was conducted so whether or not it matters I dunno.

I don't mean the "he shouldn't hit girls" one either, he's also expressed interest in Super Smash Bros. before which would have entailed hitting girls, so it's safe to say that Super Smash Bros. is an exception to this rule.

 

[Louie G.]

Arle does seem like a viable candidate. Puyo Puyo's doing well lately, and it has quite a history in the arcade scene. Kinda surprised we don't talk about her more, now that I think about it. Though, I don't know enough about the series to say, so I'd assume it's something along the lines of that.

I think Arle at least gets more attention here than she tends to get elsewhere, but in general it makes sense why people don't give her as much attention as she probably deserves. Puyo Puyo has been making itself more present in the west, but it's still a heavily Japan-centric franchise. Over here, to the lesser aware, Puyo probably comes off as a more humble smaller Sega IP.

And then there's the fact that puzzle games are still a more niche genre - well, puzzle games are actually huge for a casual audience, but Puyo is a competitive game within a genre typecasted as casual. Puzzle isn't exactly a genre that screams for a playable character, so Arle remains a pretty abstract idea from a cutesy, bubbly Japanese series far removed from the rule of cool and scrimblo bimblo tastes of the western community at large.

Puyo Puyo might be better off for being more lowkey anyway, since I prefer Arle to remain in that Terry school of underrated but not overhated characters whose historical significance and appeal is easily understood. I've always felt her odds were best through that lens and I'm confident if she did make it that people would learn to appreciate Puyo Puyo (as long as she isn't dead last... whoops).

 

[SharkLord]

I don't think that's much of an issue, though he does apparently have a disconfirmation interview. I don't really know when it was conducted so whether or not it matters I dunno.

I don't mean the "he shouldn't hit girls" one either, he's also expressed interest in Super Smash Bros. before which would have entailed hitting girls, so it's safe to say that Super Smash Bros. is an exception to this rule.

If I remember correctly, the "I don't think Sakurai wants him" one was back in FP1, so he should be safe in the context of FP2.

 

[Deleted member]

Will be kind of disappointed if my attempt at prompting a Sega discussion just becomes another Sonic discussion, but I digress...



I like Eggman significantly better than Tails to be honest, but it's unfair to call Tails "a smarter Sonic with a few gadgets". You're ignoring the part where Tails, in addition to having those gadgets, can fly and has two giant tails to smack opponents around with. Even if he was gonna share a few moves and general ideas with Sonic, there's more than enough there to keep them distinguished.

Of course Eggman does offer more variety, but I've always felt his potential lends itself more obviously toward a boss battle rather than a playable character. To clarify, I'm not saying Eggman can't be playable or NEEDS to be a boss. I know how sensitive people are to that claim and I'm not trying to say it's the "right" way to represent him or that he's completely unviable otherwise. But I have always seen him as much more likely to appear in that role before he becomes playable, as it offers a much more explicit way to showcase his signature mechs and iconic battles - additionally because Eggman just straight up was not a popular request until very recently. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow have been requested since Brawl and practically Melee for Tails. Eggman's requests are very recent and likely too late for Nintendo to have taken particular notice of... not that Eggman himself isn't important enough to have his own credentials, but if we were teetering on Eggman or Tails (IMO pretty much equally significant characters) I think precedent could go toward the one who has been wanted for 15+ years and generally shows more obvious potential as a playable character and having Eggman appear on the stage.

And then there's the Sephiroth Challenge which like, yeah it doesn't completely disqualify Eggman, but it's hard not to recognize that Sephiroth is the only villain among a sea of goody two shoes (give or take Piranha Plant) and they stressed that heavily. Eggman is an entirely different character, but with the Sephiroth Challenge, Sakurai's emphasis on how he's a big iconic villain, his route going through all the bosses... I understand it sounds arbitrary, but I think it's at least easy to see why this would cause people to doubt him.

Yeah I get Tails is popular I just never cared for him, even in the context of Sonic. He just seems so... bland? Maybe that’s just because I haven’t played the Adventure games so I haven’t given him a fair shake as a character. Tbf all the Sonic characters kind of blend together ability-wise to me since they’re all cartoon animals who run really fast with an extra quirk. Silver has psychic powers, Shadow has chaos stuff, Blaze has fire, Amy has a hammer, Knuckles punches and can glide for some reason, and Tails has tails + is smart. Eggman just seems so much more enticing in comparison.

 

[Technomage]

Shadow has chaos stuff

You forgot to mention the fact that he has guns, too.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

You forgot to mention the fact that he has guns, too.

Occasionally he's got swears too


(actually, Sonic swore at a UFO in that game too)

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Many people dont like this but I still think this would of be better if Nintendo showed all of pass 2 all together insted of giving us tiny teaspoon every month

 

[Technomage]

Many people dont like this but I still think this would of be better if Nintendo showed all of pass 2 all together insted of giving us tiny teaspoon every month

While part of me would be happy to know all of the characters ASAP, I got a feeling that it would have ended up being even more torture to wait for those characters for so much longer while knowing you can play as them in the future; plus, it could cause people to lose interest in those characters due to having to wait for so long, reducing their sales.

 

[Brother AJ]

Many people dont like this but I still think this would of be better if Nintendo showed all of pass 2 all together insted of giving us tiny teaspoon every month

Better for us maybe, but probably not for Nintendo. They want to drag out the hype and publicity as long as possible... unfortunately.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

While part of me would be happy to know all of the characters ASAP, I got a feeling that it would have ended up being even more torture to wait for those characters for so much longer while knowing you can play as them in the future; plus, it could cause people to lose interest in those characters due to having to wait for so long, reducing their sales.

as if waiting for them to ****ing open their mouth about the next character who is a mystery for months is any better

 

[Technomage]

as if waiting for them to ****ing open their mouth about the next character who is a mystery for months is any better

Hmmm, I do see your point.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm fine with the wait, but at least a roadmap would be nice. Maybe scatter some hints ever so often, to help build interest and keep us engaged. Just a little more order to the cycle.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah I get Tails is popular I just never cared for him, even in the context of Sonic. He just seems so... bland?

How bland he is kind of depends on how well he's handled I think.

• In his first appearances he's just a slightly less confident and not at all impatient Sonic since there's only so much you can do in this era.
• In Sonic Adventure, he's a kid who's learning to come into his own and be a hero without relying on Sonic.
• In Sonic: Lost World, he becomes jealous of Dr. Eggman of all people.
• In Sonic: Colors, he...exists.
• In Sonic: Forces, he's back to pre-Sonic Adventure character development, but way worse, and cowers before a boss that he has beaten up when it was in a stronger form.
• In Sonic Team Racing, one of his lines is "who's your daddy now Shadow?", which is just...how was this line given the OK for any character.

There have probably been some other good depictions of the character, but most of the ones I can remember are glaringly bad.

 

[Technomage]

How bland he is kind of depends on how well he's handled I think.

• In his first appearances he's just a slightly less confident and not at all impatient Sonic since there's only so much you can do in this era.
• In Sonic Adventure, he's a kid who's learning to come into his own and be a hero without relying on Sonic.
• In Sonic: Lost World, he becomes jealous of Dr. Eggman of all people.
• In Sonic: Colors, he...exists.
• In Sonic: Forces, he's back to pre-Sonic Adventure character development, but way worse, and cowers before a boss that he has beaten up when it was in a stronger form.
• In Sonic Team Racing, one of his lines is "who's your daddy now Shadow?", which is just...how was this line given the OK for any character.

There have probably been some other good depictions of the character, but most of the ones I can remember are glaringly bad.

What about Boom Tails?

 

[N3ON]

For this reason I feel, if anything, SEGA is worth a lot more discussion than it's getting right now - I think if any of the current major players get something, they are far and wide the frontrunner. No content at all in this pass, making it the only totally absent third party other than SNK... which is a bit more debatable. I've been trying to pioneer that a bit but it's hard, because at the same time it's not like we have a ton of options that feel plausible either.

But let's break it down a lil for the sake of discussion, since I've already got those gears turning.

Eggman is the only one that sees consistent discussion, which is funny because I'm entirely convinced that Eggman is not happening due to the particular way Sephiroth was promoted. I'm more partial toward Tails' chances, but it's hard for some people to digest that idea with his Mii Costume existing (even within a grey area). In general I think more Sonic is the most digestible for most, and it makes sense since Sonic is by and large Sega's most profitable franchise.

Outside of Sonic there's Arle, who I will always campaign for but I've lost a good deal of confidence in... but Puyo Puyo is a massively significant series, Sega's second biggest and one that has had longstanding history and presence on Nintendo. It's hard for a more abstract character like her to take off because of her cutesy appearance and unconventional genre, although it seems like most people at least acknowledge her as a possibility.

Kiryu is in a weird position because of contradicting interviews, but neither of them really help him out very much. From an interview saying they don't believe Sakurai wants Kiryu in Smash, to the other where they say it would be wrong to have Kiryu punch women. Even if we take the latter out of the picture, the former isn't great. Otherwise Yakuza has really been growing in popularity and would be worth keeping an eye on.

Sakura exists, and Sakura Wars has been emerging as a major player for Sega and inching toward more of a western presence... but I think she needs a little more time. This is one of those characters where I could see them having a much stronger case next time around. As of now I think Sakura Wars just has some more growing to do in reaching a wider international audience.

And then there's still an opportunity for Shin Megami Tensei, most notably Demi-Fiend I would say. It's been a bit unfairly counted out because of Joker, but Persona really is treated like its own separate thing and explicitly SMT content literally doesn't exist in Smash yet. SMTV is on the horizon, Nocturne remake is a thing, there's at least a case to me made for this one but there's always that slight dissociation because Joker made it.

I don't think Sega is that much of a clear frontrunner because I think they're hurting for plausible options. Not possible options, plausible options. I think Puyo Puyo and Sakura Wars would stand in much better stead if Smash was only concerned with Japan, but I think their extremely lopsided popularity will find them excluded. SMT is a notable series but I don't think we're going to see both it and Persona receive newcomers in the same game. I think Sonic definitely merits another character, but I find it fairly unlikely one of the remaining two is from that series. Especially what with the prior Sonic DLC costumes (even though they were first).

The only one that seems plausible to me is Kiryu... though he does have a couple statements which don't paint the most auspicious picture for his chances. But even disregarding those, that's still only one character I'd raise above being quite the long shot, which makes calling the company a frontrunner a stretch.

I've also previously responded to the lack of Sega content in the second pass with the rebuttal that I don't believe it's as suspicious as other people find it, considering how much Sega content came in the first pass. Sega got more in the first pass than most companies will receive in general. It doesn't need to be distributed equally, it can be front-loaded. Much like how Namco received no content in the first-pass, and all of their stuff will be back-loaded.

And lest we forget that Sega has the most content in the game of any third-party. Three unique characters, four stages, four ATs... eight costumes. I'm not going to count the music but between Sonic, Bayo and Persona there's a lot of it. I know parity isn't a thing, but that doesn't scream out for more.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What about Boom Tails?

Don't really know much about Sonic Boom Tails.

EDIT: I assume he's just kind of your standard "mechanic" character, but I could be wrong as far as nuances go.

 

[Will]

If we do get another Sonic character I’d be disappointed if it isn’t Eggman.

Same here honestly. I'd love to play Shadow and Knuckles and i guess tails will just be there but playing as Eggman in a non-Olympic game would be fantastic.

 

[CannonStreak]

Same here honestly. I'd love to play Shadow and Knuckles and i guess tails will just be there but playing as Eggman in a non-Olympic game would be fantastic.

As in Eggman without a mech?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

tfw you're the only one who actually likes Tails around here

 

[Technomage]

tfw you're the only one who actually likes Tales around here

You mean "Tails?"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You mean "Tails?"

Fixed it just as you hit reply.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

tfw you're the only one who actually likes Tails around here

I like him well enough. I like his theme song, specifically the superior SA2 version

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ALSO... LET IT BE KNOWN

Tails just BREAKS THE LAW throughout most of his levels in Sonic Adventure 2. He invades military airspace, SHOOTS UP A MILITARY PRISON, SHOOTS AT THE COPS purely to distract them from getting Sonic and gets a flashing wanted sign for doing so... THEN HE GOES ON A MAD DRIVE DOWN THE ROAD, KNOCKING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT OFF THE ROAD so that he can INVADE THE PRESIDENT'S LIMO!

He only starts being the hero AFTER he does all of that.

 

[Technomage]

Ah, I just remembered an idea I had about Tails: What if he were to be a transformation character, where he'd switch between doing the fighting himself and doing the fighting while piloting the Cyclone?

 

[Louie G.]

I've also previously responded to the lack of Sega content in the second pass with the rebuttal that I don't believe it's as suspicious as other people find it, considering how much Sega content came in the first pass. Sega got more in the first pass than most companies will receive in general. It doesn't need to be distributed equally, it can be front-loaded. Much like how Namco received no content in the first-pass, and all of their stuff will be back-loaded.

And lest we forget that Sega has the most content in the game of any third-party. Three unique characters, four stages, four ATs... eight costumes. I'm not going to count the music but between Sonic, Bayo and Persona there's a lot of it. I know parity isn't a thing, but that doesn't scream out for more.

I don't disagree, I think you make a good case here and it's for this reason I wouldn't be completely shell-shocked if Sega didn't get anything new like I was when Capcom took such a major hit. Sega got all their costumes back and they do have a substantial amount of involvement as is.

As far as returning companies that could get additional characters though, I still find Sega's absence from FP2 to generally be a good thing over its more direct competition. While Capcom got all those costumes last time, Konami / Namco have been getting them sporadically, SE and Microsoft already have characters in FP2... None of these 100% disqualify them, but it at least makes it easier to envision Sega being in a better position to receive something new. That's where my stance is mostly founded, and in general my personal belief that the remaining two characters will come from already represented companies.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm fine with the wait, but at least a roadmap would be nice. Maybe scatter some hints ever so often, to help build interest and keep us engaged. Just a little more order to the cycle.

I want Sakurai to drop a really zoomed in picture with like 20 pixels and somehow the community pieces together it’s from Faust’s knee as a cameo on a Guilty Gear stage