**Diddy Kong [Old] General Match-Ups**

[DUB]

So? You're going to fall for getting bair'd while you're stationary and he's in the air? You can just throw a naner at him and then pluck another out.

I'm going by the original post you made about DK on japes. yeah you can hit him with a naner while he's bairing but to think you can camp on the smaller platforms the entire match like this is ridiculous. I have outrageous amounts of experience with this matchup against one of the best DK's on the east coast. The two small platforms are no place for Diddy in this match. Popgun ( which I agree is very effective) is not going to stop him from getting on there with you. When he does get to you shield grabbing is definitely an option. DK has great mobility options on this stage and to think he can't quickly get to the edge and use any of his stunning get-up options from there on you isn't too bright. If you are that close to the side of the stage anyways and you do manage to get hit you are dead at a very low percentage. I've done the exact same situation you are talking about and it turns out different every time. He can Air Dodge to you, get to the ledge and go from there, AD the banana and bair through your popgun ( if you shield the bair you will be pushed back to the edge, making out for a very ineffective camp. Hell, he can even just Donkey Punch through your banana with his SAF and then you are definitely dead. Even an average DK will not allow you to camp him on Japes.

I don't think Japes is necessarily bad for Diddy against DK, but the matchup itself is completely centered around caution.

 

[ADHD]

Okay let me rexplain this. There is a banana in your hand, and a banana on the platform. If he gets up from the ledge from that platform, who cares he'll trip and you can run away to the other right/left raised platform and continue to camp him with a naner on the platform and one in your hand. Peanuts just rack up damage for when he's trying to approach you because time will run out. There is nothing he can do without being punished. So what if he goes to super punch you, you just shield it and go to the other left/right raised platform. He can't do anything... Btw were you talking about Bum? If you're smart it shouldn't be hard to avoid DK from running away to the next platform. I don't see a situation where DK can do anything without being punished. You can waste the naner in your hand just a a projectile for if he tries to bair you then pull out another. You just have to be creative and utilize the bananas/peanuts and if you fail at punishing one of his approaches towards that platform you just run to the other one and repeat the process.

 

[CHOMPY]

You better not take Donkey stage in stages like Smashville or stages that Diddy that can get stage spiked. I would try to fight in the center of the stage so you can avoid Diddy from being stage spiked. The bananas simply take over Donkey Kong anyday since DK has no projectiles whatso ever.

For Bowser, alot of Bowser players tend to do the infinity jump to avoid getting hit by the bananas. Again try to avoid being the edge of the stage when your right next to bowser to avoid the Bowserside. The only time you should be near the edge is if your confident that you can spike Bowser. Save your smash attacks when Bowser reaches to 120% because if you spam smash attacks like crazy. He will live to 200% which is not a good thing.

 

[ADHD]

You better not take Donkey stage in stages like Smashville or stages that Diddy that can get stage spiked. I would try to fight in the center of the stage so you can avoid Diddy from being stage spiked. The bananas simply take over Donkey Kong anyday since DK has no projectiles whatso ever.

For Bowser, alot of Bowser players tend to do the infinity jump to avoid getting hit by the bananas. Again try to avoid being the edge of the stage when your right next to bowser to avoid the Bowserside. The only time you should be near the edge is if your confident that you can spike Bowser. Save your smash attacks when Bowser reaches to 120% because if you spam smash attacks like crazy. He will live to 200% which is not a good thing.

The best answer to the infinite jump is spamming uncharged peanuts, it racks up damage FAST if they keep trying to use it against you.

 

[Blad01]

We are currently discussiong DDK Match-up in the Falco boards. Contribute

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5790848#post5790848

 

[pastaboy]

ok so ye bowser shouldnt be under estimated for sure. He can punish your mistakes rlllly well. If you dash attack at him and he shields, expect a upb out of shield, although i think there is enough time to shield it right when your dash attack ends. i find platforms are better then flat stages here, on platform stages it limits their ability to infinite jump over you. il upload some vids of me vs sliq soon, he is a beast, nuff said.

 

[Pegachris]

I personally think that Bowser is my favorite matchup in all of brawl.

 

[Sliq]

il upload some vids of me vs sliq soon, he is a beast, nuff said.

This.

10ihatebananas

 

[pastaboy]

lol man i was playin dumb, o well still had tuns of fun

me vs sliq lol wtf my controller spazzed out on me at the very end
me vs sliq 2 lol what was i on
lol wtf S: woaw at 2:05-2:15 i hate my life.

 

[ADHD]

lol man i was playin dumb, o well still had tuns of fun

me vs sliq lol wtf my controller spazzed out on me at the very end
me vs sliq 2 lol what was i on
lol wtf S: woaw at 2:05-2:15 i hate my life.

no johns bad grammar is the start of bad playing

 

[ADHD]

I'm sticking for my CP against dk, japes hands down.

 

[DUB]

I'm sticking for my CP against dk, japes hands down.

I don't understand why you'd take a character to his potentially best stage as a CP when you could take him to a disadvantageous stage that's also good for Diddy (Frigate) but if it works for you thats fine. I just don't see the logic in it.

Another point to add to the DK, match up, his Up+B ledge stall will force you to go over the edge of the stage and suffer landing lag. You can tank the Up+B and die or take your chances with a ledge-hopped DP or headbutt.

 

[ADHD]

I don't understand why you'd take a character to his potentially best stage as a CP when you could take him to a disadvantageous stage that's also good for Diddy (Frigate) but if it works for you thats fine. I just don't see the logic in it.

Another point to add to the DK, match up, his Up+B ledge stall will force you to go over the edge of the stage and suffer landing lag. You can tank the Up+B and die or take your chances with a ledge-hopped DP or headbutt.

Dk is helpless even if its his best stage on japes against diddy you just have to know the right camping strategy and he seriously cannot do anything...

 

[Vyse]

I promise to roll this discussion over soon. >.<

 

[Flayl]

There are 2 characters in brawl that people will be destroyed by unless they learn the matchup: ICs and Diddy. Just saying "average bowsers are 25:75 against diddy" doesn't work because for the matchup to be evaluated properly, you need the bowser player to know how to use and deal with bananas.

... That's really the only thing I have for input :/

 

[pastaboy]

^ the above statement can be said for bowser, plz dont underestimate him, he has a tun of trix. i emphasize watchin that match between me and sliq, pretty much the best bowser-it shows wut bowser is capable of

 

[Diddyknight]

We need to talk about Pit, =3 i have a hard time against him. Any ideas?

 

[ADHD]

^ the above statement can be said for bowser, plz dont underestimate him, he has a tun of trix. i emphasize watchin that match between me and sliq, pretty much the best bowser-it shows wut bowser is capable of

Camp, and don't get grabbed. Bowser's scary...

diddyknight, just don't let pit get your bananas XD

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I've been wanting to talk about heavy chars who are too good at punishing players for a while. The biggest mistake you can make against a really good bowser is underestimating him, that and DK/Ike. If you don't make a mistake, you're probably gonna win. Just camp both of them. Bowser can infinite jump over the bananas unless you camp peanuts. Peanuts pwn!!


Jungle japes is the ultimate cp against dk (that's right you heard me)

Just camp the left and right platforms on the stage, always have two bananas out--one in your hand and one on the platform aside you. Camp peanuts, theres nothing he can do. If he approaches he'll slip, if he doesn't approach you can just sit there camping peanuts it's no problem. He's so helpless it's ridiculous. With a little creativitiy you have a ton of ways to punish him if he tries to go on that little platform to attack you. If he catches the peanuts, big deal who cares just camp more.

i haven't done it to a diddy yet (there aren't many out here, and they all know toban japes against me), but falcos and wolves have tried this strategy, i can just grab the platform and shark uairs all day, if you jump just take the platform from you, camp over. and if i have the % advantage i can just camp you back

so your pretty much forced to play on the main platform if he knows the stage well enough

also, a grab on this stage is a death for diddy, i can stage spike you while still on the stage. either side of the stage too, on the right dk can just jump in too, break out and upb (which will refresh your lag in the water)

counterpicking japes on dk is never a good idea, even the local falcos have given up on the stage against me.

^ the above statement can be said for bowser, plz dont underestimate him, he has a tun of trix. i emphasize watchin that match between me and sliq, pretty much the best bowser-it shows wut bowser is capable of

NO TRIX FOR YOU, EAT YOUR CORNFLAKES



anyway, diddy is definitely in dk's favor once you know the match, once you get a foothold (either with bair, dtilt, or an ftilt into jab) it's really hard for diddy toget the momentum back, and gimping diddy's too much fun


bowser i'll have to try out later

 

[ADHD]

i haven't done it to a diddy yet (there aren't many out here, and they all know toban japes against me), but falcos and wolves have tried this strategy, i can just grab the platform and shark uairs all day, if you jump just take the platform from you, camp over. and if i have the % advantage i can just camp you back

so your pretty much forced to play on the main platform if he knows the stage well enough

also, a grab on this stage is a death for diddy, i can stage spike you while still on the stage. either side of the stage too, on the right dk can just jump in too, break out and upb (which will refresh your lag in the water)

counterpicking japes on dk is never a good idea, even the local falcos have given up on the stage against me.




NO TRIX FOR YOU, EAT YOUR CORNFLAKES



anyway, diddy is definitely in dk's favor once you know the match, once you get a foothold (either with bair, dtilt, or an ftilt into jab) it's really hard for diddy toget the momentum back, and gimping diddy's too much fun


bowser i'll have to try out later

Bs, did you read what I said carefully? The left and right floating platforms supported by bars over the water, not the center one. I can just simply use my agility to run to the other left/right platform if you're in a good position against my camping.

Bs that you think you can "gimp" diddy's with dk, i want you to fight an actual good diddy and come back. You basically just have to be very patient and alot more stationary than usual against dk, because if you make a mistake you're going to pay. That's basically all there is too it. Just space yourself away from the tilts and bair and dk will have a hard time against your agility. That glide toss is pretty useless because the distance is ridiculous and very situational to use against a diddy kong.

 

[DUB]

The DK vs. Diddy seems pretty much wrapped up. I'd call it 50:50. As for Bowser, I havent played enough Bowser's to give input.

 

[ADHD]

The DK vs. Diddy seems pretty much wrapped up. I'd call it 50:50. As for Bowser, I havent played enough Bowser's to give input.

I feel its even but 55-45 in diddy's favor, bowser is the same IMO. There is a massive difference between an okay bowser and a really good bowser. Bowser can give diddy a very hard time and diddy can give bowser a very hard time. It's just that bowser is so easy to combo that i'd say it's 55-45 as well for diddy.

 

[NinjaLink]

Dk vs Diddy is defintely NOT 55-45 in diddys favor. DK cargo throws u off and gimps u. Boy thats hard for DK......*insert sarcasm*

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Bs, did you read what I said carefully? The left and right floating platforms supported by bars over the water, not the center one. I can just simply use my agility to run to the other left/right platform if you're in a good position against my camping.

you sound like a sonic main "you can't win cus I has BLAZING SPEED" i can upb under all the platforms, and it's faster that your movement speed, the only time i can't do this is when the timers on 3's and 7's because the klap trap is up. give it up, dk is too good on his best stage

Bs that you think you can "gimp" diddy's with dk, i want you to fight an actual good diddy and come back. You basically just have to be very patient and alot more stationary than usual against dk, because if you make a mistake you're going to pay. That's basically all there is too it. Just space yourself away from the tilts and bair and dk will have a hard time against your agility. That glide toss is pretty useless because the distance is ridiculous and very situational to use against a diddy kong.

you think i can't gimp diddy? its just upb on the ledge unless he tries something gutsy, then bair them back and continue to ledge camp.

i want you to fight an actual dk thats played diddy more than once, because all the good diddys who have played decent dk's know its hard for him

and no, glide toss is very useful, airdodge grab a nana, glide toss it and turn around punch if he's close, normal punch at a distance. whatever dk you were playing probably just didn't know the matchup (not surprising, diddys are few and far between).

and your synopsis is just "runaway and pray he doesn't know how to space" so what if you move fast, we out range everything you have that isn't a banana/peanut, and we have a bunch of 6-10 frame attacks that can keep up with all your attacks. its in dk's advantage

 

[Player-1]

40-60 in DK's favor, done with it next character please?

=)

 

[Count]

60-40 DK

tentimestheamountofrange

 

[ADHD]

60-40 DK

tentimestheamountofrange

I disagree.

 

[Le_THieN]

I disagree.

Please explain your rationale.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

The Kongs depend a lot on momentum in any matchup, but when they face each other it often becomes more crucial for Diddy to maintain. They both have effective ground games, and DK's anti-air options aren't too shabby either. And if DK ever finds a chance to gain momentum and stop Diddy comboing him (which admittedly is hard) Diddy can often find himself 30-70% up before he knows it. Overall, though, their on-stage games equal out, so the real difference here is off-stage.

DK has many gimping options (3 spikes, bair, Cargo Stage Spike and smart usage of aerial upB invincibility frames are hard for Diddy to answer) that Diddy has little he can do about; conversely, Diddy's gimping options (not a diddy main, if i miss any plz shout at me), aka Diddy Hump, dair spike, nana, peanut, and barrel spike often are not an issue.

If a gimping opportunity occurs, it means DK is below the edge, and the moves in this matchup that put him there are Fsmash and Dsmash. These moves have significant horizontal knockback, so DK will probably have some horizontal distance away from the ledge as well as vertical (if any). DK's horizontal recovery is good enough and high priority enough that it can burn right through most of Diddy's gimping options, especially the ones that happen on a horizontal plane (nana, peanut, Diddy Hump). And his air speed while using his up+B is good enough that in many cases (not all) it will beat Diddy back before he can use Dair or the Barrel spike (Do Diddy mains even use that as a spike above the ledge on purpose?).

On the other hand, DK's gimping options are all above Diddy, and Ftilt, Fsmash, the Punch (assuming it doesn't kill heheh) and CSS all put him there. If Diddy cancels the spike, DK can stall on the ledge and refresh invincibility with ledgedrop --> upB, which also leaves very few vulnerable frames. If Diddy techs against the wall, it will be bad for DK but from then on he will throw Diddy under the level instead of against it, and even with a sideB --> barrel DK can once again edgehog easily. On top of the edgehogging game, DK's spikes are formidable and easy to administer; the difference in timing between Dair and Fair always keeps my opponents guessing which one I will use, and AFAIK the headbutt (which can be glided off the stage with some pretty sick distance) will at least trade hits with the barrel, if not outprioritize it, and the downward trajectory combined with increased hitstun from a broken barrel spells death as much as the other two spikes.

tl;dr DK's superior gimping gives him the edge, I'm wavering between 55-45 and 60-40. I wish there was a 57-43 option XD

 

[DUB]

you think i can't gimp diddy? its just upb on the ledge unless he tries something gutsy, then bair them back and continue to ledge camp.

i want you to fight an actual dk thats played diddy more than once, because all the good diddys who have played decent dk's know its hard for him

and no, glide toss is very useful, airdodge grab a nana, glide toss it and turn around punch if he's close, normal punch at a distance. whatever dk you were playing probably just didn't know the matchup (not surprising, diddys are few and far between).

and your synopsis is just "runaway and pray he doesn't know how to space" so what if you move fast, we out range everything you have that isn't a banana/peanut, and we have a bunch of 6-10 frame attacks that can keep up with all your attacks. its in dk's advantage

bigfoot were pretty much on the same page.

While the Up+B Ledgestall and bair is extremely effective it more then likely won't hit a smart Diddy if he is off the stage and not a semi-lower angle. The Diddy will have to shank his Up+B over the edge but then that's a whole new story.

On the other hand DK is pretty hard to gimp. Smart ones will recover pretty low, dair-ing is not as easy as it seems, and if you miss a dair and DK hasn't up+B'd, it's retartedly easy for him to spike Diddy. The most successful ways to edgegaurd are to fair his up+B, but with good idea and any rate of staleness he might still tank it. Besides landing a dair, you can jump off hit him with a naner and then go for a dair. Diddy Hump murders his recovery, but even your average DK is going to make it nearly impossible to land it.


DK has too many options out of the Glide Toss granted the naner connects. I'm pretty sure the D-Smash will always connect. You can also get headbutted

Chrome you have a somewhat decent idea about how to annoy a DK, but it's flawed. The range is gonna overwhelm you on japes on those 2 little platforms.

Easy to rack up damage on DK once you get in the groove. He won't die tillaround 140+ at the minimum. Really important to stay unpredictable. You keep trying to GT dash attack your gonna get shield grabbed into a d-throw d-tilt combo. 50-50

 

[ADHD]

You guys are making it harder than it's out to be, you just have to be more stationary and wait for opporunities. It's really not that hard, if you fail at approaching him he's going to punish you. DK is going to have a hard time going at it normally, diddy just has to lay back and go a bit campy and just fish for opporunities. Once you find an opportunity, DK pays more than he can punish a diddy player's mistake as long as you have nanerz under your control. Dk gets pummeled into oblivion if he makes a mistake. The only thing I see DK having over diddy is he's hard to kill, and dk kills diddy very easy. All this dk out-ranging crap is irrelevant, it's all about diddy and how he uses his nanerz. Diddy shouldn't even deal with dk's range as long as he's got a naner in his hand. Diddy controls the nanerz much better, and dk sucks when it comes to breaking up a flow of banana attacks. So to sum it up: Keep bananas out all the time, wait for opportunities to punish DK, and don't make mistakes. It's not that difficult unless the tag over the DK's head is Bum. Yeah, and you can't land as long as he puts a hit box down so don't ever DI into him. It's not like I'm underestimating him, I know he can be fast and overwhelming at times, it's just the match plays into totally how diddy handles the bananas. Oh yeah, and about that cargo throw stage spike, either learn to tech it or super grab break (rotate control stick around and clack the c-stick repeatedly.)

Pros:
You combo him into oblivion.
He has a hard time avoiding your bananas.
He has no projectiles, so he HAS to approach you, meaning you have a sort of upper hand immediately.
His verticle recovery sucks, meaning if he gets spiked, side b humped, or naner pluck edgeguarded that he won't make it up all the time chances are.
You can adjust the spacing in between you and him by utilizing the nanerz well.
You can utilt lock him 3-4 times before following it up at low percents.
dash attack > dair can in most cases be an instant kill if he's on the side of the stage.
You can compensate for your lack of range through glide tossing against DK.
You control the match the majority of the time, not DK.
He has no reliably fast way to pick up the bananas.

Cons:
He kills you easily.
He's heavy and hard to kill.
Outranges you (not really a big deal at all IMO)
Gimps you (I don't see how it's a problem you can just be careful with recovering but w/e ill list it)
Nice glide tosses.
Forces you to abuse your bananas.
Can kill you very early from a 9-wound pawnch.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

You guys are making it harder than it's out to be, you just have to be more stationary and wait for opporunities. It's really not that hard, if you fail at approaching him he's going to punish you. DK is going to have a hard time going at it normally, diddy just has to lay back and go a bit campy and just fish for opporunities. Once you find an opportunity, DK pays more than he can punish a diddy player's mistake as long as you have nanerz under your control. Dk gets pummeled into oblivion if he makes a mistake. The only thing I see DK having over diddy is he's hard to kill, and dk kills diddy very easy. All this dk out-ranging crap is irrelevant, it's all about diddy and how he uses his nanerz. Diddy shouldn't even deal with dk's range as long as he's got a naner in his hand. Diddy controls the nanerz much better, and dk sucks when it comes to breaking up a flow of banana attacks. So to sum it up: Keep bananas out all the time, wait for opportunities to punish DK, and don't make mistakes. It's not that difficult unless the tag over the DK's head is Bum. Yeah, and you can't land as long as he puts a hit box down so don't ever DI into him. It's not like I'm underestimating him, I know he can be fast and overwhelming at times, it's just the match plays into totally how diddy handles the bananas. Oh yeah, and about that cargo throw stage spike, either learn to tech it or super grab break (rotate control stick around and clack the c-stick repeatedly.)

Pros:
You combo him into oblivion.
He has a hard time avoiding your bananas.
He has no projectiles, so he HAS to approach you, meaning you have a sort of upper hand immediately.
His verticle recovery sucks, meaning if he gets spiked, side b humped, or naner pluck edgeguarded that he won't make it up all the time chances are.
You can adjust the spacing in between you and him by utilizing the nanerz well.
You can utilt lock him 3-4 times before following it up at low percents.
dash attack > dair can in most cases be an instant kill if he's on the side of the stage.
You can compensate for your lack of range through glide tossing against DK.
You control the match the majority of the time, not DK.
He has no reliably fast way to pick up the bananas.

Cons:
He kills you easily.
He's heavy and hard to kill.
Outranges you (not really a big deal at all IMO)
Gimps you (I don't see how it's a problem you can just be careful with recovering but w/e ill list it)
Nice glide tosses.
Forces you to abuse your bananas.
Can kill you very early from a 9-wound pawnch.

actual matchup

diddy pros
combo him
has to be good at powershielding to camp you (or be on luigis mansion)
nanerz hurt

this is all stuff you stated, and then restated, the rest that got left out is wrong

also, dash attack to dair doesn't work, my upb beats it out every time, invincibility frames don't lose to diddys dair

cons for diddy
he kills you early
he dies late
he has more range than you
his glide toss can guarantee several kill moves
he gimps you
SA screws with your banana game

 

[Ominous]

Melee is better than Brawl i'm almost everythink...

 

[ADHD]

actual matchup

diddy pros
combo him
has to be good at powershielding to camp you (or be on luigis mansion)
nanerz hurt

this is all stuff you stated, and then restated, the rest that got left out is wrong

also, dash attack to dair doesn't work, my upb beats it out every time, invincibility frames don't lose to diddys dair

cons for diddy
he kills you early
he dies late
he has more range than you
his glide toss can guarantee several kill moves
he gimps you
SA screws with your banana game

No, SA do not screw your banana game. I want you to have alot of fun trying to monkey punch when I throw a banana at you, or up b so I can just punish you afterwards. Glide toss is predictable, if DK has a banana and he's a far away distance, the first thing I'm going to think is he's going to glide toss (and if you don't, i'm just going to throw another naner at you if it's in my hand.) Gimps? DK can't really gimp diddy, unless the diddy is reckless when he recovers. No, dash attack SH dair IS A COMBO, the full hop isn't, but you won't be able to up b to save yourself from a SH dair. besides, if you do up b my full hop after the dash attack I'm just going to punish you when you land. I think you're just a DK who doesn't want to admit diddy has the advantage. You can super grab break the cargo throw stage spike or just tech it with good timing. Btw luigis mansion is banned in most tourneys around here.

If diddy has a god **** advantage on dedede (who is far worse than dk in terms of gimping and racking up damage with grabs,\ and in the air) THEN WHY IS DK HARDER THAN DEDEDE someone please explain!!!

 

[Player-1]

I think you're just a DK who doesn't want to admit diddy has the advantage.

But all of the diddys are supporting DK has the advantage except you...

 

[ADHD]

But all of the diddys are supporting DK has the advantage except you...

then reason with me why it's not in diddy's favor, I really don't know why dedede is harder than dk

 

[pastaboy]

the only way to end this theory crafting is to test it. Record a match vs a pro DK on japes using said tacitc

 

[Browny]

lol what am i doing in here?

chromepirate i think its fair to say that it is because DK can KO way earlier than DDD. DDD has gordos for about 70% KO's, utilt for about 105 and bair for gimps. DK has fsmash, dsmash, 9 punch, bair, dair, uair, cargo spike to all KO < 100 and are all easier to land than any of DDD's ko moves except bair. add to this DK's glide toss and you could very well be getting KO'd around 50 % from sakurai combos into 9 punches or fsmash near the edge.

 

[ADHD]

Alright, I guess since i'm all alone you guys should just put it as 40-60 in diddy's favor. I'd really like to go over the zelda matchup because I've never fought a good zelda before offline and there is one who is attending a tourney this saturday and I'd like to be a little prepared

 

[Snakeee]

Trouble in the jungle?