Debate Hall Postbit

[RDK]

I'm still for the scales, and I promise I'll touch it up, resize it, and make it look pretty when I get the chance, although if someone else wants to take a shot at it I have no OBJECTIONS (pun intended). I know I'm not the only one who knows how to use Photoshop around here...

And in any case, the scales do indeed symbolize a balance between forces, which I think represents the DH nicely - especially as of late, seeing as how we're trying to allow more diversity in opinions. Anyone else agree?

In any case, I think the scales make us look more scholarly and elitist, and conveys a sense of brotherhood.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Have you never played Phoenix Wright? Phoenix is nothing of a joke, and perfectly conveys our message.
And I agree with Firus, the scale is more of a "coming together in balance, which completely does not represent the message we are trying to send. Since when have we "come together in balance" to argue?
The scale also represents equality, which definetly does not convey "Debating' to me.

And as I've stated before, the scale is still too big and the icon is pixelated and not well done. We have to see another fitting one before the poll is initiated.

We'll consider the scale further once it is redone.

Phoenix Wright as a postbit has several large flaws:

1. Many people have never played a Phoenix Wright game; you all know it's true. Phoenix Wright can hardly be considered a widely recognizable and well-known symbol.

2. Phoenix Wright only symbolizes debate if you really want him to. Even if people have played his games, they're not going to see the postbit and immediately think "Oh, this symbolizes debate." Phoenix Wright, first and foremost, represents a video game series. Then, secondly, he represents lawyers and legal procedures. To use him as a debate icon is a loose interpretation to say the least.

3. No matter how we try to think of it here, very few people are going to take a video game character seriously as a symbol. Especially if they haven't played his games or heard of him before.

I honestly think Phoenix Wright is a very weak symbolization of the debate hall.

I would agree that the libra scale doesn't perfectly fit our "message" that we want to convey, but I don't think we'll ever be able to come up with a 19x19 image that is symbolic enough to cover the purpose of the DH.

 

[Bowser King]

I would agree that the libra scale doesn't perfectly fit our "message" that we want to convey, but I don't think we'll ever be able to come up with a 19x19 image that is symbolic enough to cover the purpose of the DH.

Yeah, unless we come up with something like "This is the DH's post bit" or "DH", you can find a flaw in just about any symbol. So we need to think of which one represents us best.

 

[M.K]

We'll consider the scale further once it is redone.

Phoenix Wright as a postbit has two large flaws:

1. Many people have never played a Phoenix Wright game; you all know it's true. Phoenix Wright can hardly be considered a widely recognizable and well-known symbol.

2. Phoenix Wright only symbolizes debate if you really want him to. Even if people have played his games, they're not going to see the postbit and immediately think "Oh, this symbolizes debate." Phoenix Wright, first and foremost, represents a video game series. Then, secondly, he represents lawyers and legal procedures. To use him as a debate icon is a loose interpretation to say the least.

I honestly think Phoenix Wright is a very weak symbolization of the debate hall.

I would agree that the libra scale doesn't perfectly fit our "message" that we want to convey, but I don't think we'll ever be able to come up with a 19x19 image that is symbolic enough to cover the purpose of the DH.

Who looks at a Grimer and thinks BRoom? Who looks at a Mushroom and says "Oh, lawl, Premium Membership, obviously"
You realize that Phoenix Wright is a HUGELY recognized symbol? I'm sorry that you've never played the game, but it's really the premier symbol of a great debate.

If you honestly think that way, pitch some of your own ideas instead of whining about the ones that were at least TRIED.

EDIT: To respond to your edit, who cares if they have never played the game before? It's the same with Grimer, what the hell is a Grimer? A Pokemon, yes, it's a Pokemon. There are tons of people who haven't played Pokemon.
Come up with your own ideas or shut up about the ones already posted. I suggested the scale before, but seriously, if that ugly sprite becomes our symbol, I've already lost hope for the Debate Hall.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Who looks at a Grimer and thinks BRoom?

Everyone on SWF.

Who looks at a Mushroom and says "Oh, lawl, Premium Membership, obviously"

Everyone on SWF who was around back when Premmie was around. The DH (or at least, the DH that we're talking about) is a part of SWF, and effects the SWF community. We shouldn't even be considering those who aren't a member of these forums.

You realize that Phoenix Wright is a HUGELY recognized symbol? I'm sorry that you've never played the game, but it's really the premier symbol of a great debate.

People don't associate Phoenix Wright with debates. They associate 'OBJECTION!' with debates.

EDIT: To respond to your edit, who cares if they have never played the game before? It's the same with Grimer, what the hell is a Grimer? A Pokemon, yes, it's a Pokemon. There are tons of people who haven't played Pokemon.

However, you're much more likely to find a non-gamer that knows what Pokemon is than a non-gamer who knows what Phoenix Wright is. Pokemon is much more recognizabe.

 

[Teran]

Wow, long***ed debates in a simple postbit thread.
I guess this place really lives up to its name, you guys are great Internet Arguers.

Isn't the main idea of the Debate Hall here intelligent debate? You keep jumping on the "whoopie Phoenix Wright is cool" thing, but fail to realise that things like the Scholar Hat, or say a scroll would be more appropriate.

I like the whole idea of scholarly debate, but hey. just a suggestion.
Why don't we put the Playboy logo as our postbit? I mean, just like Grimers have nothing to do with the BRoom but looks cool, as with Mushrooms and Premies, we can have a pointless symbol that everyone knows and loves as our mascot.

 

[Firus]

More non-gamers play Phoenix Wright than Pokemon.

It's also a more mature game than Pokemon. I love both of them, but Phoenix Wright is more sophisticated and whatnot.

Wow, long***ed debates in a simple postbit thread.
I guess this place really lives up to its name, you guys are great Internet Arguers.

Isn't the main idea of the Debate Hall here intelligent debate? You keep jumping on the "whoopie Phoenix Wright is cool" thing, but fail to realise that things like the Scholar Hat, or say a scroll would be more appropriate.

I like the whole idea of scholarly debate, but hey. just a suggestion.
Why don't we put the Playboy logo as our postbit? I mean, just like Grimers have nothing to do with the BRoom but looks cool, as with Mushrooms and Premies, we can have a pointless symbol that everyone knows and loves as our mascot.

I think we've already said why Phoenix is a legitimately intelligent representation. It's hardly comparable to the Playboy logo, at ALL. Because it is relevant, and it represents something sophisticated.

And I think a scholar hat or scroll is too academic and not enough debate-y. For that matter it could be a postbit for the proposed school section of the PRoom.

 

[Miggz]

A scale would probably represent the DH more clearly or with better accuracy.

But I still feel Phoenix Wright is a lot more creative.

Hm.

 

[SkylerOcon]

More non-gamers play Phoenix Wright than Pokemon.

It's also a more mature game than Pokemon. I love both of them, but Phoenix Wright is more sophisticated and whatnot.

That wasn't what I was saying, though. I was saying that more non-gamers knew what Pokemon is, not what more non-gamers played (in the few times they actually play a game).

@Teran: I like the idea of a scroll. Could somebody make that?

 

[Teran]

I think we've already said why Phoenix is a legitimately intelligent representation. It's hardly comparable to the Playboy logo, at ALL. Because it is relevant, and it represents something sophisticated.

I was referring to the fact that others were saying postbits didn't even need to be relevant anyway, so they can back the Phoenix Wright postbit.

Phoenix isn't very sophisticated. He's a good attorney but not sophisticated.

 

[Miggz]

Why don't we put the Playboy logo as our postbit? I mean, just like Grimers have nothing to do with the BRoom but looks cool, as with Mushrooms and Premies, we can have a pointless symbol that everyone knows and loves as our mascot.

You idea is pretty neat, I will admit.

But when I hear the term "debate" the word "serious" or "mature" comes to mind. For that reason, I think it would be a good idea to not conform with the random symbols other groups use and pick something that leans more towards are theme.

 

[RDK]

More non-gamers play Phoenix Wright than Pokemon.

Sorry, but this just isn't even close to being true. If you honestly believe this, then you're deluded.

And good luck having people take the DH seriously with Phoenix Wright as a postbit. I know - let's just trash the whole admissions process and let everyone and their mom in! How's that idea?

Let's make it as casual-friendly as possible! I'll get us started by making a thread about which color is the bestest.

 

[Pr0phetic]

A scroll or a text bubble would be kinda cool too, but a scroll seems more like a congress/senate thing, something a Senator would have.

 

[Teran]

I was being sarcastic about the Playboy thing, just to take a knock at the idea of any old random symbol.

@ Rukkiko: Roman Senators, or in fact Senates in general, were built on the principle of democracy and debate.

 

[Firus]

Sorry, but this just isn't even close to being true. If you honestly believe this, then you're deluded.

And good luck having people take the DH seriously with Phoenix Wright as a postbit. I know - let's just trash the whole admissions process and let everyone and their mom in! How's that idea?

Let's make it as casual-friendly as possible! I'll get us started by making a thread about which color is the bestest.

I was referring to the adult side of things. And I don't think I'm mistaken in thinking that an adult is more likely to pick up a DS to play an attorney game than a game with fantastical creatures.

Thanks for reducing my argument to something it absolutely isn't.

It's probably really easy to ignore my argument when you pretend I want the Debate Hall to die, when I actually said nothing of the sort.

If you want to argue against Phoenix Wright, try not attacking ME in the process.

You can talk about how stupid and silly Phoenix Wright is, but I think it's a legitimately good way to represent the Debate Hall (I'm probably deluded for that, though). Say what you will about the scale, but you have to INTERPRET it as a symbol of the Debate Hall, and it just feels pretentious.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Sorry, but this just isn't even close to being true. If you honestly believe this, then you're deluded.

And good luck having people take the DH seriously with Phoenix Wright as a postbit. I know - let's just trash the whole admissions process and let everyone and their mom in! How's that idea?

Let's make it as casual-friendly as possible! I'll get us started by making a thread about which color is the bestest.

I back RDK, as people with the slightest sense of an argument will do w/e they can in order to get that postbit, possibly diminishing this room. It's an awesome idea, it does have good representation, but it doesn't have the seriousness or character the other icons present.

Thanks for reducing my argument to something it absolutely isn't.

It's probably really easy to ignore my argument when you pretend I want the Debate Hall to die, when I actually said nothing of the sort.

If you want to argue against Phoenix Wright, try not attacking ME in the process.

You can talk about how stupid and silly Phoenix Wright is, but I think it's a legitimately good way to represent the Debate Hall (I'm probably deluded for that, though). Say what you will about the scale, but you have to interpret it as a symbol of the Debate Hall, and it just feels pretentious.

For the record, I'm not attacking you just to say, or backing up the possibility RDK is. I'm myself are split, as it's very good, bu yeah as I stated earlier.

 

[Firus]

I back RDK, as people with the slightest sense of an argument will do w/e they can in order to get that postbit, possibly diminishing this room. It's an awesome idea, it does have good representation, but it doesn't have the seriousness or character the other icons present.

Unless the admissions process of the Proving Grounds changes, I'm not sure how people can just BS their way in here.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Unless the admissions process of the Proving Grounds changes, I'm not sure how people can just BS their way in here.

I was just thinking this, as admission has greatly improved. However the debates back there are slightly less intense, and simple facts could be all the newcomers (online sources). Honestly I'm currently torn with a slight lead to the scale, I'll see...

 

[Teran]

I thought the Debate Hall didn't get personal.
Ah Christ people are so annoying.

Sometimes, I wonder why murder is illegal.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I thought the Debate Hall didn't get personal.
Ah Christ people are so annoying.

Sometimes, I wonder why murder is illegal.

Lol it shouldn't be, but people are people, and especially on the internet, tones are hard to figure.

Backing the scale, check this;

With comparative scaling, the items are directly compared with each other (example : Do you prefer Pepsi or Coke?).

Scale - an instrument or machine for weighing

Scaling does show debating, and weighing both sides of an argument, for those naysayers.

 

[Firus]

Again, it has to be interpreted, you have to think about it. A feather immediately occurs to one as a writer logo. You look at a scale and...I'm envisioning the scale in postbits and it does not seem like Debate Hall representation. It just seems like it would be totally random.

It can't be perfect, but the scale just doesn't fit to me.

Also, I'd like to point out that the gavel is still there. >_>

 

[Teran]

**** it, put the ****ing UN Logo or something. Everyone knows that's all they do.

 

[Miggz]

Hey how about we use the Ying and Yang symbol? After all, it does represent *to some degree) opposing forces. What do you all think?

 

[Zero Beat]

What the hell is going on here?

I thought I said to keep it civil. If you dislike each other that much, take it to AIM or profile messaging or whatever, but not in this room. Last warning before the thread is closed and the idea reconsidered.

No drama in the Debate Hall. If you really want to question someone's intelligence, IM them and find out for yourself. Or challenge them in a debate OUTSIDE of this thread. If you dislike the postbit that's decided on by the end of this, there's an option on your cp to hide postbits.

Problem solved.

 

[Nysyarc]

What the hell is going on here?

Funny that we can debate about so many legal and moral issues and keep our cool, yet the moment we bring up an icon that will represent our group, we're at each other's throats over it.

I think having a postbit is a good idea, but we're being too critical about what exactly represents debating. It's not easy to define debating with a single icon. It's our nature to want to pick things apart, defend our arguments and etc... but we need to come to a conclusion here. This isn't a debate that can go on and on, we actually need to all agree eventually.

Miggz brought up the Yin-Yang symbol, how about that? It represents two opposing sides, it doesn't really have any qualities that directly go against debating. It is a well-known symbol, but it is not so desirable as to cause a tidal wave of unwanted activity in the PG. Given time, it will be just as recognizable as a Grimer for the BR.

 

[Firus]

The Yin-Yang is certainly interesting, but...it still feels like too much of a stretch to me.

In fact, after thought, just envisioning the postbits in use, the one I think best represents the Debate Hall is a gavel.

Just think about a new person on the forums looking at these. The only one I envision a newbie recognizing as a possible DH symbol is a gavel. It seems academic and law-related, but not too much of either side.

 

[Miggz]

Well I'll be satisfied for whatever comes up in the end. I'm sure we'll have something that accurately represents us.

My top three, from favorite to least is as follows:

1. Ying and Yang
2. A Gavel
3. Phoenix Wright
4. Scale

 

[Pr0phetic]

Hmm, I see what your getting at, maybe the gavel is slightly more apparent to new users. However, I don't remember exactly being appeased to new users, and an addition to the Proom Q&A thread could possibly solve some issues. It doesn't hurt to ask.

I think we should finalize the poll now, between the scale, the gavel, and the Phoenix Wright logo.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Who looks at a Grimer and thinks BRoom? Who looks at a Mushroom and says "Oh, lawl, Premium Membership, obviously"

I'm not saying that these are true, but you've made it clear your main argument against the scale is that it "does not represent the message we are trying to send". I'm explaining why you're reasoning is so flawed.

You realize that Phoenix Wright is a HUGELY recognized symbol? I'm sorry that you've never played the game, but it's really the premier symbol of a great debate.

Whoa, whoa, who said I never played it? Don't make things up. I've played it and I'm well aware that it's a lot less well known than the other icons.

If you honestly think that way, pitch some of your own ideas instead of whining about the ones that were at least TRIED.

Funny, that's EXACTLY what you did when you complained that you "really dislike[d]" RDK's scale (among other things) and then edited it later because it was too harsh.

And I've posted my ideas, the five that will be on the table for voting are only on there because I took the initiative to gather them. I also made one of them, so don't complain that I haven't "pitched ideas". Right now I'd like the scale or one of the gavels.

EDIT: To respond to your edit, who cares if they have never played the game before? It's the same with Grimer, what the hell is a Grimer? A Pokemon, yes, it's a Pokemon. There are tons of people who haven't played Pokemon.

They won't take it seriously, that's what, and that seems to be what you are concerned with in the first place. And who said I'm supporting grimer? As I said at the top, I'm showing why your logic for eliminating the scale is flawed.

Come up with your own ideas or shut up about the ones already posted.

Funny, that's EXACTLY what you did when you complained that you "really dislike[d]" RDK's scale (among other things) and then edited it later because it was too harsh.

And I've posted my ideas, the five that will be on the table for voting are only on there because I took the initiative to gather them. I also made one of them, so don't complain that I haven't "pitched ideas". Right now I'd like the scale or one of the gavels.

This again.

I suggested the scale before, but seriously, if that ugly sprite becomes our symbol, I've already lost hope for the Debate Hall.

Vote against it. And if it becomes our postbit and you're that upset about it, (which is quite ridiculous) then you can just leave the debate group. It's not like you're locked in if we have that postbit. But seriously, you're overreacting hugely.

More non-gamers play Phoenix Wright than Pokemon.

I find that to be very, very unlikely. Sorry, but unless there's some sort of stat for this, I'd never believe it.

It's also a more mature game than Pokemon. I love both of them, but Phoenix Wright is more sophisticated and whatnot.

Yeah, but we're not exactly considering a pokemon as a potential postbit. Compare it to the other ones, not to grimer.

ink we've already said why Phoenix is a legitimately intelligent representation. It's hardly comparable to the Playboy logo, at ALL. Because it is relevant, and it represents something sophisticated.

Again, this can be said for all the other icons, but they are also more recognized. Like I said, many people won't take it seriously.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Aye guys, this should be our friendliest debate yet. Remember, it's in our favor to be blessed with something as simple as an icon, lease the tension.

 

[Nysyarc]

Just think about a new person on the forums looking at these. The only one I envision a newbie recognizing as a possible DH symbol is a gavel. It seems academic and law-related, but not too much of either side.

Hmm. I think if I saw a gavel as a postbit I would consider it more law-related than anything else. The first thing that would come to mind would be a moderator or an administrator position, someone who dictates the rules of the forum.

It may work, but I think some kind of a symbol that represents an argument between two sides would be better. I realize a yin-yang wouldn't make debating pop into mind right away, but if someone here can actually think of a tiny image that can represent all of what debating is... I'll eat my dog.

Anyways the point is, we shouldn't be looking for something that perfectly represents debating, we should be looking for something that doesn't immediately represent anything else, and that can eventually be used to represent debating. The yin-yang right now only represents two sides (or nothing) to most people, so we can make it a symbol of debate.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Aye guys, this should be our friendliest debate yet. Remember, it's in our favor to be blessed with something as simple as an icon, lease the tension.

Agreed. It's only a 19x19 image, lol.

Chill out, everyone.

 

[Teran]

I bet $10 Zero is gonna stomp some ***** in this thread.

 

[Zero Beat]

The majority vote will decide what postbit will be kept. I don't mind if people debate about the postbit, I just mind the DRAMA. Ad hominems do not belong in this room.

 

[Miggz]

The yin-yang right now only represents two sides (or nothing) to most people, so we can make it a symbol of debate.

This was extremely well said. It sounds like you like my idea.

I say we give it a shot. Its just as creative as Grimer.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think we should finalize the poll now, between the scale, the gavel, and the Phoenix Wright logo.

Why not the Yin Yang symbol?

Also, @ whoever said Yin Yang doesn't scream "Debater" to new members, does Grimer scream "BRoomer?" I don't think so. I agree with Yin Yang, it's a good idea. I think the final poll should be between the Phoenix Wright logo, the scale, the Yin Yang, and the gavel. Yin Yang is probably the deepest and possibly most sophisticated of the possibilities, and the Debate Hall should be presented as a high-class, sophisticated room on SWF.

 

[Nysyarc]

I think we should finalize the poll now, between the scale, the gavel, and the Phoenix Wright logo.

Well, those shouldn't be the only options. Besides, a poll by itself won't do. We're debaters, we need to at least analyze each symbol, figure out the pros and cons, and then come to an intelligent decision.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Why don't we just resize the scale and start this poll up? It's unlikely people will change their minds at this point?

Here's yin-yang if we want to add that:

I do think it's kind of a stretch but we could just have it as an option, I suppose.

 

[M.K]

Funny, that's EXACTLY what you did when you complained that you "really dislike[d]" RDK's scale (among other things) and then edited it later because it was too harsh.

You realize I was the person who originally pitched the idea of the scale, right? I've pitched ideas, I've even made some sprites myself that I can post here at request, but none are as good as the gavel or Phoenix Wright.
Also, I edited my post because it DID come off more harshly than I wanted it to, hence the reason why I edited it so.

There, that is the scale I made. Yes, it's bad, but I gave it a shot.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I agree with Nysyarc. I think a debate on the topic will add activity to the Debate Hall and also accomplish the task of finding a postbit for our room. It would also be fun.

The only problem is it might take a while and I don't know when we want to get this done by.