DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

[ZTD | TECHnology]

not from this tourney, nothing of mine (or any ddd for that matter) got streamed, singles or doubles. if something does go up, it'll be from a third party that i'm unaware of.

Yeah none of us made it on a recording setup. We got NO love this weekend lol

 

[Coney]

not at all surprised tbh

no one wants to see ddd get destroyed by a high tier, or destroy a low tier. really wish my set with otori was streamed tho :/

 

[Doc King]

Were there any D3's that entered pools besides Coney, 4God, and Tech Chase?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Were there any D3's that entered pools besides Coney, 4God, and Tech Chase?

Kaptain was in attendance. Eliminated 1st round pools.

Zekey also. Made it to 2nd round pools but was one seed away from getting into bracket.

I also met White from Nova Scotia. I dunno if he entered though.

 

[Doc King]

People are going to underrate Marth now. Honestly I think olimars the only one that needs to rise and wario fall, I just see everyone in top tier as being almost indistinguishably close. The order almost doesnt matter.

lmao you mean on stream? I saw that too was kinda sad...I think were just destined to suck at this point though. Except ESAM, and maybe nairo if he doesnt quit.

BTW Rich did work on metaknight. He eliminated Holy, Tyrant, Zero, and M2K. Z also did some good work against Pwii and Zex.

Also Apex results by character from bracket:

1, 3, 5, 5, 13, 13, 17, 17, 17, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 33, 33, 33, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49
7, 9, 49
5, 7, 17, 17, 33, 49
9, 17, 33
17, 17, 33
25, 49, 49
4, 5, 33, 49
2, 9, 13, 13, 33, 33, 49
4, 17
33
25, 49
33, 33, 49
49

33, 33
49
33, 49
25

9

49
49



33
33
25

Here's a character list of all of the performances at Apex.

A positive thing we can look at is how we did better than the high tiers did. We even got close to going even with a top tier (Called ).

Congrats to Coney and 4God!

 

[∫unk]

I believe that if the Ice Climber/Diddy/Olimar/MK player is solid enough in the matchup there's nothing DeDeDe can do to win the game besides significantly outreading your opponent (which is improbable over the course of a tournament set). Pikachu and Falco might be in that category as well.

So many top players moved away from DeDeDe (including the now legendary 9B)... I think I'm going to be doing the same soon :/

 

[Coney]

that's exactly how i feel, it's just unreasonable that a top ddd can beat a top...any other character of a really hard matchup.

i keep doing it tho because the only other character i love (ness) is just as bad but for different reasons and i'm unwilling to sacrifice all the time and work i've put into this guy

i'd move away from ddd if i liked the game more, or if i didn't mind losing as much...it's just i care enough to not want to main a mid-low tier and deal with the hardships, but not enough to use a character that isn't fun to me. weird spot.

 

[AtotheZ]

That's how I feel. I know that if I put in the effort into another character, I can/will place in my state, but I just don't care about the game enough to attempt to pick up another character.

MK might be banned now but who cares when there is still 3-5 characters that can **** us with their eyes closed, a lot of the times shutting down most of our options at even a sub par level of play.

Oh well, Pokemon Trainer and Dedede all day baby

 

[Exdeath]

I believe that if the Ice Climber/Diddy/Olimar/MK player is solid enough in the matchup there's nothing DeDeDe can do to win the game besides significantly outreading your opponent (which is improbable over the course of a tournament set). Pikachu and Falco might be in that category as well.

So many top players moved away from DeDeDe (including the now legendary 9B)... I think I'm going to be doing the same soon :/

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm beginning to agree as well.

This is why I have been using my fat stinky plumber man a lot more recently.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I moved away from Dedede too.

Spoiler

To Zelda. The ultimate "you lose if you don't know the MU" character

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Stop switching characters lol. You focus on a different one every time I talk to you LOL.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Sorry for the double post however:

From left to right: 4GOD, Atomsk, Zekey, Tech_Chase, Kaptain

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'm about to do a bad photoshopping job.

And by photoshop I mean MS Paint.

I apologize in advance.

(Also TC I still play Dedede.

But shhhh don't tell anyone)

And thus is proof I was clearly at Apex:

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

LOLOLOL sooooo bad.

 

[Tesh]

You were specifically beaten by sharking and then you CPed to the only other stage where its possible?

/facepalm

Thats really too bad, considering you were doing so well.

 

[Coney]

yep, really ****ty idea

if i would've just gone to a neutral i'm pretty sure i would have won, i had this dude down

 

[Tesh]

You were the chosen one Coney! You were supposed to bring balance to Apex, not leave it in darkness!!

 

[da K.I.D.]

I took the same advice when I played leon, coney, it worked out for me since I beat Leon on Halberd.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

LOLOLOL sooooo bad.

It was going to be worse, then I remembered at the last second paint has a freeform select.

 

[Coney]

it just seems to me that ddd sucks at all levels of play except, like, bottom-low because his weight allows for a TON of mistakes. at mid-level play people can just CP you with characters, and at high level play even your good matchups are being commandeered by amazing players that can exploit your weaknesses to the fullest

that said, someone needs to reach ddd's potential. i feel like most ddds are...like...60%. i'm...maybe 80%? 85? he may be bad, but there's no reason why ddd players can't succeed to the same level of various fox players, or zero suit players, or wolf players. ddd's as a whole, i think, simply need to get better.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I was about to go and practice today

But then brawl wouldn't load.

 

[Exdeath]

it just seems to me that ddd sucks at all levels of play except, like, bottom-low because his weight allows for a TON of mistakes. at mid-level play people can just CP you with characters, and at high level play even your good matchups are being commandeered by amazing players that can exploit your weaknesses to the fullest

that said, someone needs to reach ddd's potential. i feel like most ddds are...like...60%. i'm...maybe 80%? 85? he may be bad, but there's no reason why ddd players can't succeed to the same level of various fox players, or zero suit players, or wolf players. ddd's as a whole, i think, simply need to get better.

The difference is that Wolf and more so Fox are characters that actually have the mobility and tools to overcome their situations (IMO Fox' only bad MUs involve someone having an extremely powerful chain grab, and Wolf isn't bad either). Even Zero Suit has unique, largely unexplored tools to improve her game (armor pieces alone can help her overcome the first stock of any character). DDD relies on people not knowing the DDD MU, being too hasty, etc. In other words, he doesn't have those tools (unless someone figures out how to gordo on command). Even the MUs that we know have a lot more room for DDD to grow, it's rarely in MUs that are suppressing him anyway.

 

[Coney]

i honestly think it's less about practicing with ddd and more about thinking. don't just play the game, think about it. i'm sure people were doing b-reverse inhales before me, but i started bringing them into prominence because they are a ****ing amazing way to mix up our incredibly obvious landings. same for utilizing charged dsmashes as a punish for fearing the grab. i've seen players smarter than me (atomsk, seibrik) utilize similar methods to solving our biggest problems.

my biggest problem was i loved fighting in the air, but had a big problem on landing. all i had to do was start b-reversing inhales and voi-****ing-la, i've suddenly opened a door to an INCREDIBLE array of possibilities. reversing inhale, standard inhale to cover roll, the threat of bair...i'm sure people were doing this before, but it completely revolutionized my game and got me some of my first big wins.

the biggest part is, b-reverses are ****ing easy. they don't take much technical dedication (which is good for me because i'm godawful), they just take good reads. don't worry about practicing so much, just start analyzing and thinking.

@ above

yes, i agree. but that's why it's so important with our character to utilize the limited chances we have effectively. i always ***** about how ddd sucks...it's mostly because you receive so few opportunities to actually DO anything, and if you screw it up, the punishment is usually pretty severe. i might have beaten otori if i were better about predicting which side he'd be on when landing--the cross-ups made me grab in the wrong direction several times, which lead to a punish that did a significant amount of damage. but i HAD to go for them, because of how few chances i got to begin with.

does this make any sense? am i wrong here?

i guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't expect any ddd to beat dehf, adhd or gnes anytime soon. but beating superfalcofan123 is not suddenly impossible because he beats your character. be better than him.

 

[Exdeath]

I understand what you're talking about, but the problem is that most of the common characters (at the advanced stage of a major) will have more chances for similar options and receive further reward.

This is worse in practice than in theory, as MK having 3-4 chances to hit and follow-up on it for approximately the same value (since MK outright dies after the % where he's knocking DDD off-stage and following it up to death and they hit>follow-up for about the same %) as opposed to DDD's 1-2 is more pronounced.

For example when you both have the same option (e.g. dash shielding and the opponent was defending with shield, in which case grab defeats each others' approach/defense) and your opponent has grabbed you, say you'll have another 50-50 chance later to grab him. Because you lost the first outcome and MK has more chances (these being the safe 50-0s he has, such as hitting you if you do anything but retreat), MK will have 2-3 remaining, have hit you for, say, 20% before you return to neutral and then he'll have 1-2 50-0 chances before you have another 50-50 chance to hit him.

That is to say, instead of just him having more chances, every time that you have an opportunity to attack, it's still 50-50, and when his 50 beats yours, you not only were attacked, but you also will lose an attack. It's just a by-the-numbers type deal in that case. /basic statistics

This isn't Meta Knight exclusive. It's the same for characters like Diddy and Olimar, and IMO it's worse for ICs. At the end of the day, you have to deal with 1-2 50-50 chances just to get a 50-50 attack chance. If the Diddy players that I play against didn't mentally break down once DDD gets in on them, it's unlikely that I would beat any of them. This is despite me putting in time and effort into the MU, looking at the frame data and making a game plan, etc. while they just work on knowing their character better.

I have a hard time watching DDD vs. Falco, not because it's boring, but because the MU generally goes one of two ways: Falco annihilates DDD or Falco runs into obvious things that he wouldn't run into if he put even marginal time into learning the MU.

 

[Coney]

oh yeah, i completely agree with what you're saying. but that's what i mean, i guess...it's hard to break the resolve of those top players i mentioned and beat them, because they're...well, top players. it's extremely difficult to intimidate or rattle them, some of the things ddd does best and how he gets so much of his damage

i just don't think it's so unfeasible that a ddd only lose to top players of his bad matchups. we shouldn't be dropping sets to ROB, or ike, or snake even. we should be better than that.

 

[Exdeath]

oh yeah, i completely agree with what you're saying. but that's what i mean, i guess...it's hard to break the resolve of those top players i mentioned and beat them, because they're...well, top players. it's extremely difficult to intimidate or rattle them, some of the things ddd does best and how he gets so much of his damage

i just don't think it's so unfeasible that a ddd only lose to top players of his bad matchups. we shouldn't be dropping sets to ROB, or ike, or snake even. we should be better than that.

The problem is that DDD is not a high tier character; he is a mid-tier character. At best. To be specific, his tools are that of a borderline mid-tier character (as in borderline to low-tier). Consider G&W vs. a character that DDD doesn't chain grab vs. a character that DDD does chain grab. G&W is pretty uniformly better than DDD in that case, because in that case you're comparing their genuine tools. Take Fox as a character that is technically considered a mid-tier.

Vs. characters like Falco, Olimar, ZSS, G&W, Kirby, Zelda, Jigglypuff -- Fox is generally better than DDD at those MUs, because his tools are just better. Even R.O.B. has better tools than DDD. He can avoid grabs, he can get kills, he can option select those Falco Side-Bs, those Pikachu Up-Bs, etc. DDD can't.

Don't get me wrong; DDD has the ability to deal with every character, it's just that it requires his opponent to be so much lesser than he is that it's not a practical expectation. This problem will only continue to grow as the average level of player improves. It doesn't really matter how much the DDD player improves, so long as his opponent improves.

P.S. I'm not saying that people can't win with DDD or stop trying to do so; I'm simply saying that DDD is practically a lower mid-tier at high levels of player, and that those who are interested in pursuing Smash competitively should accept this. This is not an excuse to give up or assume that you don't have an answer to a situation just because it's frustrating.

 

[Doc King]

The problem is that DDD is not a high tier character; he is a mid-tier character. At best. To be specific, his tools are that of a borderline mid-tier character (as in borderline to low-tier). Consider G&W vs. a character that DDD doesn't chain grab vs. a character that DDD does chain grab. G&W is pretty uniformly better than DDD in that case, because in that case you're comparing their genuine tools. Take Fox as a character that is technically considered a mid-tier.

Vs. characters like Falco, Olimar, ZSS, G&W, Kirby, Zelda, Jigglypuff -- Fox is generally better than DDD at those MUs, because his tools are just better. Even R.O.B. has better tools than DDD. He can avoid grabs, he can get kills, he can option select those Falco Side-Bs, those Pikachu Up-Bs, etc. DDD can't.

Don't get me wrong; DDD has the ability to deal with every character, it's just that it requires his opponent to be so much lesser than he is that it's not a practical expectation. This problem will only continue to grow as the average level of player improves. It doesn't really matter how much the DDD player improves, so long as his opponent improves.

P.S. I'm not saying that people can't win with DDD or stop trying to do so; I'm simply saying that DDD is practically a lower mid-tier at high levels of player, and that those who are interested in pursuing Smash competitively should accept this. This is not an excuse to give up or assume that you don't have an answer to a situation just because it's frustrating.

I'm not gonna argue about anything, but just saying, D3 is a high tier character as of now and that D3 can chaingrab Puff on the smashville platform and on the ps2 ice stage.

Edit: I'm actually gonna argue one thing.

You know, it really pisses me off how ppl keep saying D3 is all about the mother****ingchaingrab **** when he actually has a garenteed dash grab out of an air release on Squirtle and he beats Zelda easily, while getting his *** whooped by Diddy and the Climbers.

This **** is really getting depressing as ****. This will pretty much kill brawl for like D3, Game and Watch, Rob, and Zelda mains.

I really hope smash 4 becomes like the 1st and 2nd game and not the 3rd because this game is just horrible.

 

[Exdeath]

This **** is really getting depressing as ****. This will pretty much kill brawl for like D3, Game and Watch, Rob, and Zelda mains.

I really hope smash 4 becomes like the 1st and 2nd game and not the 3rd because this game is just horrible.

I never said that DDD is all about the chain grab. I said simply pointed out how DDD fares when it isn't involved. G&W's metagame is carried on by players like Vinnie, rakyawo, etc. R.O.B.'s metagame clearly isn't dead, and he has better movement options than DDD. Zelda's mains understand how she is as a character and they accept it. You can't work around the faults of your character if you can't acknowledge them.

No one is forcing you to play Brawl if you don't enjoy it. If you prefer 64 and/or Melee, then feel free to plays those.

 

[Coney]

who

the hell

cares

if we have an air release on squirtle

stop obsessing over a character that only one relevant player plays

in the entire world

as a secondary

 

[Player-1]

4god cares, he lives in the same region as reflex

4god bess.

 

[Zekeishere]

I'm not gonna argue about anything, but just saying, D3 is a high tier character as of now and that D3 can chaingrab Puff on the smashville platform and on the ps2 ice.

LMFAO WOW REALLY!? GOD DAMN.

DDD also has a guaranteed d throw to d smash on every character on the ice of ps2 and the moving platform on sv.

Apex as gay. It rocked but I am kinda disappointed in myself.

1st round of pools I could not care enough to 2-0 everyone in my pools. Like I knew I was going to win but I let myself get sluggish and lost games for it.

Second Round of pools was just dumb luck. I had leon(0-2), a Marth ****ed me up for playing like an idiot. Sago(2-0) and Metaknight who I felt O was just better than. But A player I respected nonetheless. Xaltis(1-2) a falco player who went mk vs me 3rd game and had a little cheering squad. Honestly, I feel like I am a better player than he. And if not for my carelessness I would not have lost the 2nd game. He kept getting angry at every little thing. And those kinds of players do not respect their opponents. :/ It frustrated me the he had a coach the entire time to keep him calm. Otherwise his anger would have gotten the best of him and he'd have lost for sure.

And if that was not bad enough, 4th was Holyknightmare(mk, 1-2). Ally's brother. Holy was definitely a nice and respectable dude. After Xaltis I was happy to play him. 1st game was really close but he won. Second game I won solidly. And 3rd game ally comes up and starts coaching him in french or w/e they speak. 3rd game, with Ally's assistance, I get two stocked. :/

I ****ing lost to metaknight and coaching. (Lost to double mk in teams too)

I am sure I could have beaten any of them. Vs Xaltis I kept messing up a lot of turn around buffers which messed up many punishes. Either way that was not a satisfying way to end Apex for me. I did not achieve any of my goals for the tournament.

I conclusion,
Coney is definitely better than me.
4GOD is probably better than me.
And plus Atomsk we are the top 4
DDDS.
4GOD is also like a hella cool guy. <3
Same a coney and Atomsk.
TC is pretty quiet and puts off a weird vibe. but he's okay.
Kid Goggles is kinda annoying. And was a little better than I thought.
Kaptain was pretty obnoxious for half the time I saw him.
Player-1 was actually a nicer than O expected.
Player - 3 was not as nice as I expected, but after was played he was cool.

And I never got to do my mm with player 1 or 3. I think I'd lose to player 3 but beat player 1.

And if I played 4GOD in bracket I'd gay him and go G&W. =]

I also hella wish I had his r2 pools but what's done is done. :/

Time to pick a new character... Diddy I think.

 

[Player-1]

the **** you would have beaten. I was going to scrape you, but you were too scared to play me and watched havok get wrecked instead. You can't drop ddd until I scrape you in the mm next time.

 

[Zekeishere]

the **** you would have beaten. I was going to scrape you, but you were too scared to play me and watched havok get wrecked instead. You can't drop ddd until I scrape you in the mm next time.

There was no other open tv and I was winning when we had to stop. Lol

 

[Player-1]

there was so an open tv it was right next to us. We played for like 30 seconds before we got kicked off.


ur bad, 4god da bess.

 

[Exdeath]

Sex Puma (best DDD in Florida right now IMO) 2-0d Xaltis the last time that they played. Xaltis is bad against DDD.

From his point of view you don't rate very well when compared with some of the people he's beaten before (ESAM, HRNut, etc.), so I don't think that he really meant it as an insult/disrespect per se, but rather that he didn't respect you.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

How many D3s does Florida have??

And eh, I had no idea what to say to you Zekey. I don't know what kind of vibe you put out, but it made me reluctant to speak with you lol. I'm a nice guy and everything but quiet when I first meet people but I'm kinda analyzing.

And hey Kaptain was a nice guy. I liked everyone I got to meet at Apex. And 4GOD is such a nice person it's hard not to like him lol.

I had a good time at Apex. But I wonder if maining this character is the way to go. It seems impossible with the bad MUs we have. I'm not sure yet. I still love D3 and want to play him but I want to win as well. We shall see...

Also Doc King this character might as well be mid tier. lol

Seriously.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

The worst high tier.

 

[4GOD (JJV)]

it just seems to me that ddd sucks at all levels of play except, like, bottom-low because his weight allows for a TON of mistakes. at mid-level play people can just CP you with characters, and at high level play even your good matchups are being commandeered by amazing players that can exploit your weaknesses to the fullest

that said, someone needs to reach ddd's potential. i feel like most ddds are...like...60%. i'm...maybe 80%? 85? he may be bad, but there's no reason why ddd players can't succeed to the same level of various fox players, or zero suit players, or wolf players. ddd's as a whole, i think, simply need to get better.

^^This is why I am still going hard D3.

Thanks for all the hype guys. It was awesome meeting all of the D3s! Btdubs, fellow D3 mains, dont get discouraged abt maining D3 yet. Just understand that it takes a lot hard work since he's not top tier. And MK's banned! Whatever that's worth

 

[Exdeath]

How many D3s does Florida have??

Puma
Seibrik
DewDaDash
CO18 (kind of)
Me

Virtually everyone in FL has a decent pocket , though.