DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

[*JuriHan*]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldQoVFH11Xw&feature=video_response

srry if this was posted before i don't lurk DDD boards...

 

[Gates]

You guys are forgetting a classic rap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFu_wcV9nP0

 

[AtotheZ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwQbPgouUYo

 

[9Kplus1]

I found an old mix CD from 8th grade.

1 .It's goin down
2. Get Silly
3. Ridin Dirty
4. Soulja Boy Tell Em
5. And then what (Yung Jeezy)
6. Ultimate Satisfaction (Ludacris)
7 -11 was some random R&B crap that I don't remember even listening too.
---
Crashic, I love you, but I've been keeping track of the HG/SS moveset updates for a while and the only ones to come of any use were Heal Bell Clefable, Aqua Jet Feraligator, Recover Quagsire and a few others I don't feel like remembering.

Choice Scarf Aggron out speeds Metagross, Gliscor, Tyranitar, most Salamences, Gyarados, Scizor, Machamp. It will 1 or 2 hko nearly any of those pokemon not including stealth rocks. Instead of disregarding what I said about the new HG/SS Aggron, how about you do some research. and crunch the numbers.

Seeing as how base 100s hit a 299 Speed while Aggron hits a 298 Speed, I'm assuming Jolly.

319 Atk vs 300 Def & 364 HP (100 Base Power): 156 - 184 (42.86% - 50.55%)
CS Aggron's Earthquake vs Metagross (the 'popular' 252 HP/236 Atk/12 Def/8 SpD spread)

Earthquake has a .99% chance of 2HKOing Metagross on average (36% with SR and .99% with SR and Leftovers)

400 Atk vs 396 Def & 281 HP (100 Base Power): 292 - 344 (103.91% - 122.42%)
The same Metagross' Earthquake against Aggron

This assumes that Metagross has no boost, be it from an item or a +1 Attack boost from Meteor Mash.

319 Atk vs 196 Def & 384 HP (80 Base Power): 141 - 166 (36.72% - 43.23%)
Iron Head vs 252/0 Adamant  Machamp

lol

394 Atk vs 396 Def & 281 HP (100 Base Power): 432 - 508 (153.74% - 180.78%)
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgmjLhV9ubc"]lol[/URL]

lol

319 Atk vs 236 Def & 281 HP (140 Base Power): 204 - 240 (72.60% - 85.41%)
Head Smash vs 4/0 Scizor

Since we're assuming that every Pokemon here is already in, I'll disregard the 2HKO here.

591 Atk vs 396 Def & 281 HP (120 Base Power): 516 - 608 (183.63% - 216.37%)
Choice Band Scizor's Superpower

394 Atk vs 396 Def & 281 HP (120 Base Power): 448 - 528 (159.43% - 187.90%)
Life Orb Scizor's Superpower

394 Atk vs 396 Def & 281 HP (120 Base Power): 344 - 408 (122.42% - 145.20%)
Scizor's Superpower

Uhhhhhhuh

319 Atk vs 322 Def & 306 HP (140 Base Power): 150 - 177 (49.02% - 57.84%)
Head Smash vs 252/168 Rotom-A ("Standard")

Here's something that interested me, Rotom-A can pass around Burns like Gates passes around aids.

319 Atk vs 322 Def & 306 HP (140 Base Power): 76 - 90 (24.84% - 29.41%)
Burned Aggron Head Smash vs Rotom-A

Get ***** and remember that Rotom managed to get Pain Split in HG/SS, so healing should be no problem. Even then, you have RestTalk variants running around since Rotom-A is a potent status absorber.

319 Atk vs 216 Def & 301 HP (140 Base Power): 222 - 262 (73.75% - 87.04%)

Head Smash vs Timid 4/0 Latias

319 Atk vs 150 Def & 281 HP (95 Base Power): 290 - 342 (103.20% - 121.71%)

Surf vs Aggron...
---
Now, Cresselia, Suicune, Celebi (<3), Skarmory, Swampert, Hippowdon, Bronzong and Flygon don't need a damage calculations since they obviously take hits from Aggron relatively well and outright **** it (the latter outspeeds can can OHKO with Earthquake without an Attack boost).
---
You get the point. Aggron has no solid chance to get in , do remotely ANY damage and switch out without dying. In fact, it dies without much trouble thanks to its ****** weaknesses and the fact that a lot of Pokemon brush off a 319 Attack stat. In UU, however, CS Aggron can actually do damage since Earthquake is much less common (replaced by the omnipresent Fighting attacks).
---

tl;dr Aggron sucks, as do most of the tutor moves (String Shot Saur is ****, though)

Oh and blam: http://ownpurpose.com/libelldra/damage_calculator.html

This **** is solid

 

[Gates]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Z_k50ltkY

Celebi loves Crashic but hates me. He's like the rest of these boards in reverse.

 

[9Kplus1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Z_k50ltkY

Gates...

Can I meatride you, again?

 

[Gates]

Gates...

Can I meatride you, again?

ok, but it's getting kinda crowded on there.

 

[CRASHiC]

Crashic, I love you, but I've been keeping track of the HG/SS moveset updates for a while and the only ones to come of any use were Heal Bell Clefable, Aqua Jet Feraligator, Recover Quagsire and a few others I don't feel like remembering.

Smogon disagrees.

Celebi, you can't disregard the 2HKO because of how Aggron is switching in. Remember, I'm not throwing him out willie nillie. I'm throwing him out of a U-turn most likely from Scizor.

From my calculations (on the netbattle damage calculator), using Aggron's 350 base attack, Machamp takes 48 damage from head smash on switch in, Metagross will take 71-81 percent damage from Earthquake. You didn't put his attack at 350 with an adding nature. The point is to hit with a powerful U-turn, weaken a pokemon scared, throw in Aggron, and put them into a compromising position. 15 from stealth rocks, and another head smash next turn.

Yes, her has counters, but that's not going to stop Aggron from doing having the potential for a huge damage. Aggron doesn't have to stay in. Every team will have several pokemon that our immune or ready for Surf or Eathquake, and its going to be painfully (especially in UU where he will start out) which you plan to use. A pokemon will set up U-turn at an appropriate time, then I predict your move and hit hard. Then I win. Even if Flygon does switch in, he is going to take 47 percent damage plus stealth rocks. Then I switch into a counter.

All the other changes are going to mainly effect UU, except MAYBE Wailren.

 

[9Kplus1]

Smogon disagrees.

I troll Smogon >:|

Celebi, you can't disregard the 2HKO because of how Aggron is switching in. Remember, I'm not throwing him out willie nillie. I'm throwing him out of a U-turn most likely from Scizor.

I'm confused :s. So, Aggron's switching it on what it outspeeds and kills, or are the notable Pokemon that it can outspeed switching in on it. Clear that up, as I don't feel like reading.

From my calculations (on the netbattle damage calculator), using Aggron's 350 base attack, Machamp takes 48 damage from head smash on switch in, Metagross will take 71-81 percent damage from Head Smash. You didn't put his attack at 350 with an adding nature. The point is to hit with a powerful U-turn, weaken a pokemon scared, throw in Aggron, and put them into a compromising position. 15 from stealth rocks, and another head smash next turn.

You're not getting the point :/. Aggron won't outspeed anything notable without a Jolly nature. Now, Gliscor can beat at, as well as Lucario, Kingdra and all of the other base 90+ Speed Pokemon.

Though, since you're probably going to mention Metagross and Machamp, again:

350 Atk vs 196 Def & 386 HP (140 Base Power): 135 - 159 (34.97% - 41.19%)
Head Smash vs Machamp

350 Atk vs 300 Def & 364 HP (100 Base Power): 170 - 200 (46.70% - 54.95%)
Earthquake vs Metagross

(both with same EV spreads from before since they are the most common)

Yes, he has counters, but that's not going to stop Aggron from doing having the potential for a huge damage. Aggron doesn't have to stay in. Every team will have several pokemon that our immune or ready for Surf or Eathquake, and its going to be painfully (especially in UU where he will start out) which you plan to use. A pokemon will set up U-turn at an appropriate time, then I predict your move and hit hard. Then I win. Even if Flygon does switch in, he is going to take 47 percent damage plus stealth rocks. Then I switch into a counter.

That can be said about Pachirisu. Sure, Pachirisu sucks, but that's not going to stop it from using Super Fang and chipping off 50% of your Pokemon's HP. It even doesn't have to stay in since my team already has a Pokemon with high defensive capability and better typing to sponge hits. I also have a Salamence to clean up after everything's down to half it its health. If Gliscor decides to switch in, it's going to take 50% damage while I switch to a counter.

Saying something along the lines of that won't make a Pokemon viable in OU at all. If that's the case, then half of UU and most of NU would become viable for OU play >_>. Ideas on paper sound better than they appear, har har.

EDIT: Read this and have fun. Aggron's viability it better explained here

Sorry

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm confused :s. So, Aggron's switching it on what it outspeeds and kills, or are the notable Pokemon that it can outspeed switching in on it. Clear that up, as I don't feel like reading.

Let's assume you want to go with the Scizor when you see my Scizor, as you will cause its Scizor, what other choice do you have? You will get hit by my stealth rocks, that's 6 percent. I will on the turn you switch in U-turn away, and switch into Agron. That's 22 percent. From there you have two decisions, switch, or die, because choice scarfed Aggron out speeds you. If you switch, it best be something that can take it, because Head Smash does a load of damage to a lot of people.

You're not getting the point :/. Aggron won't outspeed anything notable without a Jolly nature.

Except, ya know, Salamence. Even with a boosted nature, Aggron has .5 more. Aggron has a speed of 328.5 with choice scarf.

350 Atk vs 196 Def & 386 HP (140 Base Power): 135 - 159 (34.97% - 41.19%)
Head Smash vs Machamp

350 Atk vs 300 Def & 364 HP (100 Base Power): 170 - 200 (46.70% - 54.95%)
Earthquake vs Metagross

You are going to have to switch in if you hope to actually hit me, you are going to have to deal with Stealth rocks.

That can be said about Pachirisu. Sure, Pachirisu sucks, but that's not going to stop it from using Super Fang and chipping off 50% of your Pokemon's HP. It even doesn't have to stay in since my team already has a Pokemon with high defensive capability and better typing to sponge hits. I also have a Salamence to clean up after everything's down to half it its health. If Gliscor decides to switch in, it's going to take 50% damage while I switch to a counter.

Except Super Fang can't kill anything. Headsmash can. Superfang is not as intimidating as Headsmash from Aggron by far. There is a big difference between Superfang being scary cause 50 HP no matter what and Headsmash nearly killing 50 percent of OU.

 

[9Kplus1]

Let's assume you want to go with the Scizor when you see my Scizor, as you will cause its Scizor, what other choice do you have? You will get hit by my stealth rocks, that's 6 percent. I will on the turn you switch in U-turn away, and switch into Agron. That's 22 percent. From there you have two decisions, switch, or die, because choice scarfed Aggron out speeds you. If you switch, it best be something that can take it, because Head Smash does a load of damage to a lot of people

.
So, I apparently have no viable options to check Scizor?

Except, ya know, Salamence. Even with a boosted nature, Aggron has .5 more. Aggron has a speed of 328.5 with choice scarf.

199*1.5 = 298.5 = 298
218*1.5 = 327

Salamence still outspeeds you.

You are going to have to switch in if you hope to actually hit me, you are going to have to deal with Stealth rocks.

...

Oh my god, you've invented an omnipresent move!

Except Super Fang can't kill anything. Headsmash can. Superfang is not as intimidating as Headsmash from Aggron by far. There is a big difference between Superfang being scary cause 50 HP no matter what and Headsmash nearly killing 50 percent of OU.

Hey, I'd hate it if my Jirachi had 50% of its HP ripped off by a squirrel, regardless of type resistance, or stats.

 

[CRASHiC]

So, I apparently have no viable options to check Scizor?

You can, but even then, Heatran gets killed against Metagross. In that situation Rotom is your best option. But that is going to do 25 percent damage, plus 12.5 from Stealth rocks, you aren't going to be able to survive the head smash from Aggron at this point, who is faster than you. Your rotom counter just went out the window.

Oh my god, you've invented switching!

What are you talking about? My point was that in order to keep that pokemon alive, you are going to have to change pokemon. You are going to be hit by the Stealth rocks set up by Azelf earlier as mentioned. Then you are going to be hit from my Headsmash, and are going to have to be able to withstand another one.
My point wasn't that you can switch, but you have 2 options, lose that pokemon, or switch to counter

Your counters:

Now, Cresselia, Suicune, Celebi, Skarmory, Swampert, Hippowdon, Bronzong and Flygon
Cresselia, Flygon, Hippowdown, Bronzong, and Celebi are going to have to switch in. They can't take a U-turn, Stealth Rocks, and Head Smash and live to tell about it, except for the most common Flygon set because of how common he is, but if I do see him when I start my U-turn setup, I can switch to a Flygon counter instead of Aggron.

Also, you should have crunched the numbers on Celebi, he gets hit hard by Headsmash, coming in at 55 percent damage, and still being outspeeded by Aggron.

199*1.5 = 298.5 = 298
218*1.5 = 327

Salamence still outspeeds you.

Too bad that Salamence isn't all too common. Choice Scarf Salamence's are rare.

Hey, I'd hate it if my Jirachi had 50% of its HP ripped off by a squirrel, regardless of type resistance, or stats.

Except I'd just rather use Wailren or Crobat if I wanted Superfang.

 

[9Kplus1]

You can, but even then, Heatran gets killed against Metagross. In that situation Rotom is your best option. But that is going to do 25 percent damage, plus 12.5 from Stealth rocks, you aren't going to be able to survive the head smash from Aggron at this point, who is faster than you. Your rotom counter just went out the window.

It's still an option. Will-o-Wisp can still cripple the **** out of Aggron.

What are you talking about? My point was that in order to keep that pokemon alive, you are going to have to change pokemon. You are going to be hit by the Stealth rocks set up by Azelf earlier as mentioned. Then you are going to be hit from my Headsmash, and are going to have to be able to withstand another one.
My point wasn't that you can switch, but you have 2 options, lose that pokemon, or switch to counter

I misread that, actually. It's 3 am, sue me.

Your counters:

Now, Cresselia, Suicune, Celebi, Skarmory, Swampert, Hippowdon, Bronzong and Flygon
Cresselia, Flygon, Hippowdown, Bronzong, and Celebi are going to have to switch in. They can't take a U-turn, Stealth Rocks, and Head Smash and live to tell about it, except for the most common Flygon set because of how common he is, but if I do see him when I start my U-turn setup, I can switch to a Flygon counter instead of Aggron.

Learn the definition of a counter... please.

A counter is a Pokemon that switch in and pose an immediate threat. All of the mentioned can do that to Aggron.

Also, you should have crunched the numbers on Celebi, he gets hit hard by Headsmash, coming in at 55 percent damage, and still being outspeeded by Aggron.

350 Atk vs 320 Def & 404 HP (150 Base Power): 177 - 208 (43.81% - 51.49%)

I did >_>. 0% chance for a 2HKO with Leftovers, 5% chance to 2HKO with both Stealth Rock and Leftovers.

236 Atk vs 150 Def & 281 HP (120 Base Power): 204 - 240 (72.60% - 85.41%)
Grass Knot vs Aggron

Too bad that Salamence isn't all too common. Choice Scarf Salamence's are rare.

Rank | Name       | Usage  | Percent 
2 | Salamence  | 161052 |   20.89

LOL

 

[CRASHiC]

Learn the definition of a counter... please.

A counter is a Pokemon that switch in and pose an immediate threat. All of the mentioned can do that to Aggron.

I know this, but most of those are counters by the time they get there. All of these plus stealth rocks
Suicuine- 50 on the defensive Suicune, 73 on the offensive suicune, neither can out speed.
Cressila- 41- This one is a counter
Hippowdown- 31 with Earthquake- counter
Skarmory- 56, out sped, can't hit back
Swampert- lol yeah, counter, basically the true counter big time. If only he learned Grass Knot
Bronzong- counter, no need to check
Flygon- counter, no need to check

What I meant was that they can't switch in early in attempt to stop me from setting up Aggron. So we are left with Aggron having 5 counters. Bronzong, Hippowdown, Swampert, Flygon, Cressila

350 Atk vs 320 Def & 404 HP (150 Base Power): 177 - 208 (43.81% - 51.49%)

I did >_>. 0% chance for a 2HKO with Leftovers, 5% chance to 2HKO with both Stealth Rock and Leftovers.

236 Atk vs 150 Def & 281 HP (120 Base Power): 204 - 240 (72.60% - 85.41%)
Grass Knot vs Aggron

By this, you are still going to die before you kill Aggron.
1 on switch
1 on next turn
1 next turn to kill

LOL

I meant the choice scarf Salemence that would actually out speed choice scarf aggron.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

5th most used set, and Belly drum is right below it lol. Are you really going to shallow him in to counter Aggron? Doubtful.

Let's go down the list and see what Aggron can destroy when set up-
1 | Scizor | 248338 | 32.22 - yep
2 | Salamence | 161052 | 20.89 - yep
3 | Gyarados | 155008 | 20.11- yep
4 | Heatran | 152955 | 19.84 - yep
- | Rotom-A | 151740 | 19.69- yep
6 | Tyranitar | 135677 | 17.60- yep
7 | Metagross | 130152 | 16.88- yep
8 | Lucario | 123887 | 16.07- yep
9 | Infernape | 112428 | 14.59- yep
10 | Jirachi | 110122 | 14.29- nope

Top 10 most used, only 1 can switch in safely without being KOed for sure either this turn or next. The numbers only get better from there.
11 | Gengar | 103120 | 13.38- yep OHKO
12 | Blissey | 100712 | 13.07 - LOL
13 | Swampert | 99999 | 12.97- nope
14 | Rotom-h | 93284 | 12.10- yep
15 | Starmie | 83990 | 10.90 - yep
16 | Gliscor | 83397 | 10.82- yep
17 | Azelf | 81045 | 10.51- yep, assuming its not a weird focus sashed one which are generally suciced leads.
18 | Vaporeon | 64336 | 8.35- nope
19 | Zapdos | 63646 | 8.26- yep
20 | Magnezone | 61344 | 7.96- yep

A continuation of the same results.

Another reason why this works, your switch in options are limited. Take Lucario. He resist Head Smash. However, EQ does major damage upon switch in. I switch out to Scizor, Lucario is dead, I've trapped him. I can hit with Scizor's mighty technican boosted, choice banned Pursuit. Then there are many other switch out options I have that can also utilize U-turn such as Gliscor and Jirachi to scare away Earthquakes, and Zapdose and Scizor to scare away surfs, while Azelf scares away fighting pokemon. The Scizor trap set up, the options out of Aggron, and the set up options into it are amazing. Both in and out, this seems like an amazing thing to me.

 

[Kitamerby]

Aggron gets Head Smash now?

****. We're all doomed.

 

[9Kplus1]

Suicuine- 50 on the defensive Suicune, 73 on the offensive suicune, neither can out speed.

319 Atk vs 361 Def & 404 HP (150 Base Power): 144 - 169 (35.64% - 41.83%)
Head Smash vs Suicune

Skarmory- 56, out sped, can't hit back

319 Atk vs 386 Def & 334 HP (150 Base Power): 135 - 159 (40.42% - 47.60%)
Head Smash vs Skarmory

Skamroy can lay down Spikes, Roost and then Phaze Aggron out.

By this, you are still going to die before you kill Aggron.
1 on switch
1 on next turn
1 next turn to kill

Recover, Grass Knot, Recover, Grass Knot, etc.

Leech Seed just makes it easier.

I meant the choice scarf Salemence that would actually out speed choice scarf aggron.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

Okay, let's get one fact out of the way: When proving the viability of a set, you cannot constantly change the stat spread to 'adjust' to a situation; suggest natures, go over their benefits and hindrances, then you can prove whether or not a set is viable. Aggron can't run a 327 Speed off of a 350 Attack. Get it straight.

Are you really going to shallow him in to counter Aggron? Doubtful.

Where did I say that Salamence counters Aggron?

Let's go down the list and see what Aggron can destroy when set up-
1 | Scizor | 248338 | 32.22 - yep
2 | Salamence | 161052 | 20.89 - yep
3 | Gyarados | 155008 | 20.11- yep
4 | Heatran | 152955 | 19.84 - yep
- | Rotom-A | 151740 | 19.69- I think we've been over this one. Will-o-Wisp cripples the hell out of Aggron while Rotom-A can heal itself.
6 | Tyranitar | 135677 | 17.60- Why isn't Choice Scarf Tyranitar considered? It's a decent revenge killer and it outspeeds Aggron.
7 | Metagross | 130152 | 16.88- Metagross gets in safely on all but, one move and even then, it has a chance of survival.
8 | Lucario | 123887 | 16.07- Lucario falls in the same boat as Metagross, only that it can setup a Swords Dance if it switches in correctly.
9 | Infernape | 112428 | 14.59- yep
10 | Jirachi | 110122 | 14.29- ...huh? I thought Earthquake would come into play, here. Whatever...

Top 10 most used, only 1 can switch in safely without being KOed for sure either this turn or next. The numbers only get better from there.
11 | Gengar | 103120 | 13.38- yep OHKO I needed reassurance that Gengar is OHKO'd? Oh god, no.
12 | Blissey | 100712 | 13.07 - LOL
13 | Swampert | 99999 | 12.97- nope
14 | Rotom-h | 93284 | 12.10- I'm not going over this, again
15 | Starmie | 83990 | 10.90 - Rapid Spinners aren't OHKO'd by Head Smash, with or without Stealth Rock
16 | Gliscor | 83397 | 10.82- Without a Jolly nature, Aggron loses >_>
17 | Azelf | 81045 | 10.51- yep
18 | Vaporeon | 64336 | 8.35- nope
19 | Zapdos | 63646 | 8.26- yep
20 | Magnezone | 61344 | 7.96- Like Lucairo, Magnezone can get in safely unless the move chose happens to be Earthquake. Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone is stupid popular and OHKOs Aggron 50% of the time with Thunderbolt after SR damage. Chew on it for a while...

Another reason why this works, your switch in options are limited. Take Lucario. He resist Head Smash. However, EQ does major damage upon switch in. I switch out to Scizor, Lucario is dead, I've trapped him. I can hit with Scizor's mighty technican boosted, choice banned Pursuit. Then there are many other switch out options I have that can also utilize U-turn such as Gliscor and Jirachi to scare away Earthquakes, and Zapdose and Scizor to scare away surfs, while Azelf scares away fighting pokemon. The Scizor trap set up, the options out of Aggron, and the set up options into it are amazing. Both in and out, this seems like an amazing thing to me.

Again, apply this to a Pokemon like... Dragon Dance Lapras and see if it becomes viable in OU. If a team can be created around a Pokemon, it can be used. If I can create a team around Iron Defense Beedrill, it becomes usable in OU, but not to the point where you'll be able to consider it viable.

Goddammit Crashic... come to Pound 4. I'm pretty sure that we'll be best friends.

 

[Kitamerby]

I think I'm going to seek out you two at Pound 4. I wanna know my Pokeymanz, too. :<

 

[Jupz]

Didn't read all this but I'm fairly knowledgable at pokemanz, are we gonna have the tourney?​

 

[Gates]

Lapras has Dragon Dance now?

That's pretty awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jshiYIGbFk

 

[CRASHiC]

Skamroy can lay down Spikes, Roost and then Phaze Aggron out.

Skarmory doesn't generally run 252 defense though, it goes 176 defense and Timid Nature.

Recover, Grass Knot, Recover, Grass Knot, etc.

Leech Seed just makes it easier.

Turn 1- Switch in, Head Smash, 50-59 damage, then recover with leftovers
Turn 2- Head Smash, 50-59 Damage, then you recover and leftovers.
Turn 3- Head Smash, 50-59 Damage, you is dead.

Okay, let's get one fact out of the way: When proving the viability of a set, you cannot constantly change the stat spread to 'adjust' to a situation; suggest natures, go over their benefits and hindrances, then you can prove whether or not a set is viable. Aggron can't run a 327 Speed off of a 350 Attack. Get it straight.

Whoops, I must have done something wrong last night.

I think we've been over this one. Will-o-Wisp cripples the hell out of Aggron while Rotom-A can heal itself.

Rotom can't survive 2 Head Smashes. If it switches in, its going to eat Stealth Rocks and a Head Smash. Then it has two options, recover or will-o-wisp. Either will lead to death.

Why isn't Choice Scarf Tyranitar considered? It's a decent revenge killer and it outspeeds Aggron.

Because he takes 77 damage from Head Smash on switch in.

Metagross gets in safely on all but, one move and even then, it has a chance of survival.

That's all good. Because if this becoms your obvious counter, then I can predict and Earthquack, especially since its best out of 3 battles.

Lucario falls in the same boat as Metagross, only that it can setup a Swords Dance if it switches in correctly.

Again, prediction. And a fairly easy one.

...huh? I thought Earthquake would come into play, here. Whatever...

I thought it had levitate. God I hate that ability, I can never tell when a pokemon has it.

Rapid Spinners aren't OHKO'd by Head Smash, with or without Stealth Rock

Not including Stealth Rocks, Starmie ends up getting hit with 77 percent, and that's on max HP and DF EVs.

Like Lucairo, Magnezone can get in safely unless the move chose happens to be Earthquake. Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone is stupid popular and OHKOs Aggron 50% of the time with Thunderbolt after SR damage. Chew on it for a while...

Why wouldn't it be Earthquake? You are very limited in the pokemon you can switch in on.

EDIT- And YESZ, tournament. When do you guys wanna start?
Annnnd. Gates, have you seen Seibrik's new AT thread yet?

 

[OMG H4X]

im outta town all weekend to play shows, anyone tryin to battle when i get back??

 

[CRASHiC]

Alright then HAX, I'll wait till you get back. 3 days after Hax gets back will start the tournament.

Rules:

Double elimination, two out of three

Uber is banned
Garchomp is Uber

Changing of teams between rounds and between matches is allowed.


Evasion Clause

Sleep Clause
Freeze Clause
OHKO Clause
Soul Dew Clause
Self-KO Clause
Species Clause
Timed Battle
Santa Clause

 

[Gates]

What's the Santa Clause? Every team needs to have Tim Allen in it?

On a serious note, what's the self-KO clause?

 

[CRASHiC]

If you use a Self KOing move, and you killed the other pokemon, and it is the last pokemon for both users, the match goes to your opponent.

 

[momochuu]

Hrm. I should make two teams for this.

 

[.AC.]

garrrcchhhhooommmp +yache berry ftw.

wait garchomp banned? awww

 

[T3h Albino]

Can I break out the Deoxys-E for this?
;___; Such an amazing revenge killer/Lead.

 

[AtotheZ]

Blahblahblah HG/SS

Wait till the game comes out in the US

 

[Gates]

If you use a Self KOing move, and you killed the other pokemon, and it is the last pokemon for both users, the match goes to your opponent.

Oh, ok. Haven't heard of that one before.

Can I break out the Deoxys-E for this?
;___; Such an amazing revenge killer/Lead.

Deoxys-E is Ubers son. But yeah, he is great at leading and revenge kils.

 

[9Kplus1]

Skarmory doesn't generally run 252 defense though, it goes 176 defense and Impish Nature.

319 Atk vs 386 Def & 334 HP (150 Base Power): 135 - 159 (40.42% - 47.60%)

...huh?

Turn 1- Switch in, Head Smash, 50-59 damage, then recover with leftovers
Turn 2- Head Smash, 50-59 Damage, then you recover and leftovers.
Turn 3- Head Smash, 50-59 Damage, you is dead.

Head Smash will less than 50% thanks to Leftovers. Celebi can Recover until a miss >_>.

Rotom can't survive 2 Head Smashes. If it switches in, its going to eat Stealth Rocks and a Head Smash. Then it has two options, Pain Split or will-o-wisp. Either will lead to death.

Will-o-Wisp means that Aggron becomes much less of a thread.

Because he takes 77 damage from Head Smash on switch in.

On average, Tyranitar takes 65% on the switch in from Aggron. It outspeeds Aggron and drillrapes it with Earthquake.

That's all good. Because if this becoms your obvious counter, then I can predict and Earthquack, especially since its best out of 3 battles.

Here's some food for thought; If Pokemon "A" has rely on prediction to bring down Pokemon "B", then "B" can be considered a check for "A".

If Aggron has to solely rely on prediction in order to keep Metagross from coming in safely, then Metagross can be considered a check.

Not including Stealth Rocks, Starmie ends up getting hit with 77 percent, and that's on max HP and DF EVs.

With the 136/156 spread, Starmie takes a maximum of 86%. I still don't see how Starmie is beaten >_>.

Why wouldn't it be Earthquake? You are very limited in the pokemon you can switch in on.

How so? I could have Cresselia at 80% out as Aggron switches in. You have no clue about the Magnezone I have hidden on me team, so why would to risk it with Earthquake?

Lapras has Dragon Dance now?

Crawdaunt and Whiscash got it, too

 

[o-Serin-o]

<_< Pokemon...


BBL when you guys aren't on the Poke-discussion.

 

[Kitamerby]

Today, I was using DDD vs a MK.


I accidentally pressed sideB as MK ran in with a nado, and because he hit me before I could release it, I dropped it.

I flew up, almost off the top, when I saw MK soon flying right past me.

I dropped a gordo when he hit me with the tornado, and it killed MK. lol

The match was 3min 4 seconds. I was pissed.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I have a saved video of that happening to ADHD on wifi. I lol'ed.

 

[Kitamerby]

I have a saved video of that happening to ADHD on wifi. I lol'ed.

But was it the Mach Tornado?

 

[CRASHiC]

...huh?

Oh, you used the 319 attack instead, I just saw that. That's why are numbers came out different.

Head Smash will less than 50% thanks to Leftovers. Celebi can Recover until a miss >_>.

Plus Stealth rocks. You don't want Leech Seed on him. What you want is Reflect. Not only do you force my Aggron to retreat, but you are limiting the damage you get when I Scizor trap it.

Will-o-Wisp means that Aggron becomes much less of a thread.

Yes, but its a good thing he's not the only threatening force on my team. I still have a team full of complementing resistences that are fast and can U-turn into each other. Aggron isn't the only factor of my team. Its not a team where everyone works for Aggron, Aggron is just a part of it. Will-o-wisping my Aggron isn't going to stop my other sweepers and walls.

Here's some food for thought; If Pokemon "A" has rely on prediction to bring down Pokemon "B", then "B" can be considered a check for "A".

If Aggron has to solely rely on prediction in order to keep Metagross from coming in safely, then Metagross can be considered a check.

Except that its not like Earthquake isn't a safe option to begin with. If I know you have Metagross, and this Metagross wasn't a suicide lead, then what reason do I have not to Earthquake? In fact, some pokemon can't take an Earthquake that still couldn't take a headsmash. Earthquake might not be as good, but its still effective because of type coverage. If I think a Metagross will appear, I earthquake just to be safe.

With the 136/156 spread, Starmie takes a maximum of 86%. I still don't see how Starmie is beaten >_>.

At that point, Starmie can't switch back. Starmie is going to have to use recover, becuase she can no longer safely switch in against Stealth Rocks. This is when my Scizor pursuit trap appears. Starmie is effectively dead.

Crawdaunt and Whiscash got it, too

Hahaha, I know right? Its crazy, I guess Dragon Dance is a water signautre now or something.

 

[o-Serin-o]

But was it the Mach Tornado?

No, but ADHD is probably better anyways.

 

[9Kplus1]

Plus Stealth rocks. You don't want Leech Seed on him. What you want is Reflect. Not only do you force my Aggron to retreat, but you are limiting the damage you get when I Scizor trap it.

Both are usable options, Reflect I'd actually forgotten about imo.

Yes, but its a good thing he's not the only threatening force on my team. I still have a team full of complementing resistences that are fast and can U-turn into each other. Aggron isn't the only factor of my team. Its not a team where everyone works for Aggron, Aggron is just a part of it. Will-o-wisping my Aggron isn't going to stop my other sweepers and walls.

If a team can be created around a Pokemon, it can be used. If I can create a team around Iron Defense Beedrill, it becomes usable in OU, but not to the point where you'll be able to consider it viable.

I'm tired of quoting myself.

Except that its not like Earthquake isn't a safe option to begin with. If I know you have Metagross, and this Metagross wasn't a suicide lead, then what reason do I have not to Earthquake? In fact, some pokemon can't take an Earthquake that still couldn't take a headsmash. Earthquake might not be as good, but its still effective because of type coverage. If I think a Metagross will appear, I earthquake just to be safe.

If Aggron has to solely rely on prediction in order to keep Metagross from coming in safely, then Metagross can be considered a check.

If this isn't true, then Heatran isn't considered a check for Scizor.

At that point, Starmie can't switch back. Starmie is going to have to use recover, becuase she can no longer safely switch in against Stealth Rocks. This is when my Scizor pursuit trap appears. Starmie is effectively dead.

Recover?

Hahaha, I know right? Its crazy, I guess Dragon Dance is a water signautre now or something.

Aqua Jet Feraligator is better T_T

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm tired of quoting myself.

That's why I said that. I said that Aggron isn't the only pokemon on my team. My team does not cater to Aggron. Aggron simply takes use of my team's focus on U-turn as a defensive move.

Recover?

Against a U-turn from choice band Scizor?
Against a technician boosted pursuit?

Aqua Jet Feraligator is better T_T

Why did they give Lapris Dragon Dance? What does that accomplish. Next they will give Shuckle Nasty Plot.

 

[9Kplus1]

That's why I said that. I said that Aggron isn't the only pokemon on my team. My team does not cater to Aggron. Aggron simply takes use of my team's focus on U-turn as a defensive move.

As can Beedrill :/.

Against a U-turn from choice band Scizor?
Against a technician boosted pursuit?

From Aggron's Head Smash :x

Why did they give Lapris Dragon Dance? What does that accomplish. Next they will give Shuckle Nasty Plot.

Lapras had Dragon Dance since D/P first came out. It can breed with Gyarados

No, wait

 

[CRASHiC]

As can Beedrill :/.

That's just Scizor light. Yet, no pokemon has access to Headsmash like Aggron. Donphan does, but he suffers the horrible 50 percent recoil. Relicanth does, but suffers from the typing as well while not having as much attack.

From Aggron's Head Smash :x

Yeah, you are already going to have to recover from that. Part of the plan is to set up many pokemon's death by using Scizor's crazy strong Pursuit. Scizor resist a lot of things, has great defense, a technician boasted Pursuit, and is just generally kick ***. Many of Aggron's counter's will be trapped by Scizor's deadly pursuit after being weakened by the stealth rocks and head smash.