CorruptFate's Pit match up (Dead go to Master thread)

[Ryos4]

it seems really inaccurate.

Doesnt pits bair kill at about 90%ish with a sweet spot? Unless hes doing the killing point from like idk bridge stage all the way across. I mean % at which u can kill is really to variable to be given a specific%. Distance from the edge of the map is a key factor.

 

[Chis]

You probably shouldn't feel offended as i'm sure Dryn's post was more directed at Chis and how he was acting than your actual intelligence about Sonic. Your posts were actually helpful until the thread started to degrade into flaming.

Here's a link that will hopefully let you learn more about Yoshi. Follow the links:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191018

 

[Dark Sonic]

Sonic, dropping from the respawn platform on FD. Set to 187%. Get's hit by fresh f-tilt DI up and slightly away from the stage (actually, just DIing up will suffice)->fair->second jump. Sonic lives. I made sure that I wasn't hilting Sonic or anything so, unless F-tilt has some kind of sweetspot, he really doesn't die until 188%.

All my test percentages assumed perfect DI+quickest aerial->second jump, to show the extremes. The latest Sonic will be able to survive a f-tilt from the middle of FD is 187%. After that, no amount of DI, ect, can help him.

And P.S Please let me know if there are any sweetspots I'm missing, as I don't main Pit you know. The sweetspots that I know for the tests are
Bair (timing sweetspot, hit Sonic as bair first comes out)
D-smash(has a sourspot at the tip. Have Pit stand right next to Sonic to avoid this)

 

[Dark Sonic]

it seems really inaccurate.

Doesnt pits bair kill at about 90%ish with a sweet spot? Unless hes doing the killing point from like idk bridge stage all the way across. I mean % at which u can kill is really to variable to be given a specific%. Distance from the edge of the map is a key factor.

All tests were done from the exact center of FD (I had Sonic kill himself after each test so that he could fall back down from the spawn platform, I did the same for Pit.)

After each attack I had the attacking character suicide as well, so that I could refresh their moves.

All tests also assumed the best survival methods were used. They used the best DI possible (which is not nesscessarily up and towards the stage all the time, as you'll just die off the top), as well as using an aerial to regain aerial control, and their second jump to cancel some of the horizontal momentum. Test it yourself and you'll get very similar results (may be off by 1 or 2% if you DI better/worse than I did over my 20ish trials of each move at recorded percentages.)

edit: After retesting for another half an hour, it seems Sonic's f-smash does not kill Pit until 140%, not 138%. Everything else was the same.

 

[cj.Shark]

a good tactic vs sonics is simply give up your arrows and just n-air. sonic almost No reliable ways to punish pit. also n-air owns sonics spindash and runninglol. also in the air sonic becomes very vulnerable with slow attacks(with lag on 3 of them) and poor DI compared to falling speed. just keep punsih them in the air with your trust n-air and fllhop d-air or a f-air. You can string yours aerials better than him and on the ground Your n-air Just ***** sonic.

 

[Coffee™]

The Yoshi discussion isn't really going anywhere, and we should have enough info to write up a description on both Yoshi and Sonic, so might I suggest we move on to another character, possibly Pikachu, Zss or Kirby who both seem to be picking up in popularity and can be pretty challenging for Pit. (possibly Pikachu first).

 

[Dark Sonic]

a good tactic vs sonics is simply give up your arrows and just n-air. sonic almost No reliable ways to punish pit. also n-air owns sonics spindash and runninglol. also in the air sonic becomes very vulnerable with slow attacks(with lag on 3 of them) and poor DI compared to falling speed. just keep punsih them in the air with your trust n-air and fllhop d-air or a f-air. You can string yours aerials better than him and on the ground Your n-air Just ***** sonic.

Sonic's uair beats your nair. Side B also beats your nair (but that's the invincible hop so I guess it doesn't count). It really doesn't **** Sonic...at all. It's good, but by no means spammable. And be careful with full hopped dairs. Sonic's uair is not only faster, but also outranges it (say whuuuut?!) But it's not as disjointed (though still massivly disjointed) so in a direct clash Sonic's uair will lose, but still.

And if Sonic gets stuck above you he can always just Up B->Dair. It's just as fast as that nair that you're bragging about.

But yeah, I guess I'll get out of your guys hair now

 

[Admiral Pit]

When Facing a Sonic, I really dont rely on arrows for this. I just wait patiently for one to use his spin attack at me, wait for him to jump outta his spin attack once he's near me while I shield (not Mirror Shield), then counter with U-air. I do use some arrows to try to make the Sonic come, even though he has to anyways, with the lack of projectiles.

In this way, I wait like a Mantis, then strike when ready. However, I am aware that Sonic's approaches are mainly one of these.
-Side-B to U-air, a standard little combo
-Down-B to U-air (or replace U-air with N-air, maybe B-air)
-a Dash attack,
-or run towards the opponent to grab.

Another approach I have seen is to run towards the opponent but fake going at him and use Up-B to D-air. I haven't seen that often at all.
I can say that the Spring is somewhat agitating, like Sonic's speed, and his taunt, but for me, Patience is the key to beating them.
I hope my info is correctly Dark Sonic.

 

[CorruptFate]

First of I would like to say ROOOOY thank you for all of this I have gotten to play a good Sonic (2nd in State) and the things you said seem to hold true. You have been a great help for the match up, and gave us the posts and talk I hope to get for these.

Chris, you are making yourself look like an ***, they give reason and you stand by the idea that spring=gimp, and your right if you are playing someone with one arm that can't move the joy stick left or right. Spring is easy to avoid, unless like ROOOOY said used DIRECTLY above Pit and what Pit (keep in mind this one has two arms) would use his wings right Under someone who can drop a hit box on them?

Dark Sonic, I have seen you on the boards and you know your stuff read his post he is a good.

I have read through all of this and there has been alot of great talk going on that I was unable to be apart of due to school . I has added some of the posts to the OP that I think were great for this but I couldn't fit them all on it.


And finaly by request DK I think he is a great one to talk about as the SBR just talked about him, he is amazing and we'll be seeing him alot at tournys if you dont already.

His Bair is the ****, its fast has priorty, knockback and damage. One of the best Bairs in the game if not the best.

He has a mean grab to stage spike combo, but you should be able to tech it most of the time. Any smash=kill but can a bit easy to avoid. His Dtilt approch is hard to deal with at times but then again I say Pit fights in the air.

Who beats who, how do you beat him and why do you lose? discuss

Or do we continue the sonic talk? is that still going I was told to move one more then once so I did but we dont have to yet.

 

[Dark Sonic]

When Facing a Sonic, I really dont rely on arrows for this. I just wait patiently for one to use his spin attack at me, wait for him to jump outta his spin attack once he's near me while I shield (not Mirror Shield), then counter with U-air. I do use some arrows to try to make the Sonic come, even though he has to anyways, with the lack of projectiles.

In this way, I wait like a Mantis, then strike when ready. However, I am aware that Sonic's approaches are mainly one of these.
-Side-B to U-air, a standard little combo
-Down-B to U-air (or replace U-air with N-air, maybe B-air)
-a Dash attack,
-or run towards the opponent to grab.

Another approach I have seen is to run towards the opponent but fake going at him and use Up-B to D-air. I haven't seen that often at all.
I can say that the Spring is somewhat agitating, like Sonic's speed, and his taunt, but for me, Patience is the key to beating them.
I hope my info is correctly Dark Sonic.

Well, I wouldn't really call those his "main" approaches, but yes he does do those. To add to that list is his ASC (aerial down B), which like has been said before can be shield canceled upon landing. This is his "best" form of approaching, as it has the most cancelation options. I'm pretty sure that all of Pit's aerials beat this, but of course it can be jump canceled so be cautious of that. Also, if you're unfortunate enough to shield it, you will be caught in a shield trap. Not only can Sonic shield cancel this and get a free grab if you continue shielding, but the ASC itself wears down your shield so much that a spindash jump or uair will shieldstab you. If you roll away and Sonic continues the spindash roll...you get hit. If you side step and he canceled into a shield...he get's a grab/d-tilt/whatever. If you rolled behind him I think you might be safe even if he canceled, but it's still possible that he might get a grab. So in other words, shielding an ASC is just a bad idea, and your best bet is to just beat it out early with an aerial. Sonics in general don't "approach" persay, but they more or less get in your range to set up effective (and very damaging) mixups.

So, what's your guy's consensus on the matchup. I personally believe it's 50:50, or maybe 55:45 Pit's favor.

And if you guys have any Sonic releated questions (approaches, fakeouts, weaknesses, ect.) feel free to ask.

 

[Coffee™]

So, what's your guy's consensus on the matchup. I personally believe it's 50:50, or maybe 55:45 Pit's favor.

Agreed, the matchup seems more or less pretty neutral.

 

[Admiral Pit]

DK is somewhat difficult and then sometimes he isnt. Pit's F-throw Chaingrab works well against DK, for one, maybe at least 3 F-throws if you are quick enough, maybe 4 or 5 Max before getting to the 40% line.

A DK that spams B-airs can be hard to approach because of the range, similar to a D3 spamming his B-air, without the Multiple jumps part. Shooting arrows at that point is one of your best options on that point.

DK does hate arrows just like many chars without Projectile defense do. An arrow can mess up a DK charging up his Punch.

You know about DK's grab thing, when he carries you? I still have that feeling to say "Let me go!" However, when he does carry you, hold the control stick either up or down to quickly break free of it without mashing buttons or beating up your controller. You can still press buttons while Holding the control stick Up or Down to further help you break free. Yes, I still have that "Let me go!" Feeling, because carrying a young angelic boy it makes him have fear
You can test it yourself and see the difference.

Pit's Mirror Shield works really well against DK's recovery, and since DK gots limited recovery options like Ike and Link, it's easy to guess when DK is going to use his recovery. Arrows are helpful in gimping DK or setting him up for a Mirror Shield reverse.
If you want to pursue him with F-airs, B-airs, or something, be careful not to get hit by F-air, D-air, U-air, or Side-B, and 3 of them moves are spikes.

Though Pit can combo a DK quite well, DK is very much a threat to Pit in terms of range. DK gots power and range in many of his moves. Because of this, I would not approach a DK from directly above. Gliding somewhat horizontally from DK's position is Okay, if the DK doesnt consider using his long ranged B-air. As C.F said, all smashes kill, and all of DK's spikes are lethal.
D-tilt can make Pit trip, and can set up trouble for us as well, especially with its range. In fact, let's just say that all of DK's moves got range, well, except the Side-B.

While DK's range and somewhat good speed (compared to other heavy chars) can trouble Pit, the fact that Pit can gimp DK really well with arrows, Mirror Shield, or even a chain of F-airs or B-airs (That doesn't happen that often to me) as well as being able to chaingrab the big ape really well gives Pit a decent advantage. But still, keep in mind of DK's great range advantage over Pit. This also discourages me from using Angel Ring against him.

 

[Mmac]

Well, there wasn't really alot of discussion, and the flood of Sonic mains just completely turned off any other Yoshi Main who wanted to discuss the Matchup, and those who did got completely swept away from the flood...

Heres what Information I can salvage in the Middle of the storm:

I think Yoshi was covered with that small information, and we got this before spamfest...
-Eggs, B-air, and D-air are trouble,
-F-tilt is useful here due to its range,
-Yoshi's little Chaingrab doesnt work on Pit,
-Use Pit's Mirror Shield on Egg Roll if the Yoshi actually uses it in an attempt to reverse and KO him,
-Be Cautious of a ledgecamping Yoshi and his eggs, and the Yoshi can choose to come up with either a D-air or U-air
-Pit will be vulnerable if he is above a Yoshi for we have problems with the U-air, Usmash and U-tilt
-Yoshi's Super Armor Frames will be annoying, and we all know it.

Yoshi eh? Its about an even matchup in my opinion. Yoshi can side b through arrows if you try to spam them, but its kinda situational, usually bettter to just dodge. Yoshi combos pit very easily, pit probably has one of the toughest times getting out of his combos due to an awful dair. The main threat pit poses is his fsmash, just because it has so much range and beats our back air. I would say pit's main focus would be to prevent yoshi from gettin off a back air on him, and should play defensively. Grab yoshi out of side b, fsmash or shield grab(if your shield isnt weakened) back air, and try to keep your distance. Yoshi has a very dangerous very close range game with his amazing jab and ftilt, so space yourself with retreating fairs. I dont know exactly what else to say, dont charge yoshi cuz you'll get pivot grabbed.

So Yoshi vs. Pit Neutral?

 

[Ripple]

I believe this match up to be neutral but 55:45 in favor of Pit. I've played Dr. x and other good pits recently, it comes very close but pit has the slight upper hand

 

[Kinzer]

*Insert cheesy Roleplay line here*

Uhm...Hi fellas, my name's Kinzer, you probably know me best from the Ike/Forum Games, but that's not why I'm here.

I was praying to the Heavens because you see (actually if I could have a moment of your time), my fellow Ike mainers are currently discussing Brawl's messenger of the Goddess Palutena, Kid Icarus. (To newcoming fans he's better known as Pit) We need your omniscent thoughts on your character to see if we will have any chance against this lieutenant of a righteous army. We have been given the strength of another Goddess but we would appreciate your opinions, telling us why or why not luck might/might not be on our side.

If you feel like answering the prayer, here's the thread.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192160

 

[Chis]

First of I would like to say ROOOOY thank you for all of this I have gotten to play a good Sonic (2nd in State) and the things you said seem to hold true. You have been a great help for the match up, and gave us the posts and talk I hope to get for these.

Chris, you are making yourself look like an ***, they give reason and you stand by the idea that spring=gimp, and your right if you are playing someone with one arm that can't move the joy stick left or right. Spring is easy to avoid, unless like ROOOOY said used DIRECTLY above Pit and what Pit (keep in mind this one has two arms) would use his wings right Under someone who can drop a hit box on them?

Dark Sonic, I have seen you on the boards and you know your stuff read his post he is a good.

I have read through all of this and there has been alot of great talk going on that I was unable to be apart of due to school . I has added some of the posts to the OP that I think were great for this but I couldn't fit them all on it.


And finaly by request DK I think he is a great one to talk about as the SBR just talked about him, he is amazing and we'll be seeing him alot at tournys if you dont already.

His Bair is the ****, its fast has priorty, knockback and damage. One of the best Bairs in the game if not the best.

He has a mean grab to stage spike combo, but you should be able to tech it most of the time. Any smash=kill but can a bit easy to avoid. His Dtilt approch is hard to deal with at times but then again I say Pit fights in the air.

Who beats who, how do you beat him and why do you lose? discuss

Or do we continue the sonic talk? is that still going I was told to move one more then once so I did but we dont have to yet.

Here's a link that will hopefully let you learn more about Yoshi. Follow the links:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191018

Who the heck is Chris? If you can't get a 4 letter user name right there is something wrong with you and your not worth my time. Flame yourself if your desperate. Anyway here's that Yoshi source if anyone missed it.

 

[Doctor X]

Ripple and I have played each other twice in tournament, so I think we've learned a lot about this matchup. In both occasions I pulled ahead but it was pretty close.

I'd consider it even, but you have to be very, very careful on both sides. Pit can rack up damage very quickly since DK's a big target and has a hard time airdodging or SDIing out of Pit's multi-hit moves, plus Pit can mirror DK for a kill pretty easily if the DK messes up. DK's no slouch either, though, since his bair beats just about everything Pit has, and superarmor donkeypunches could be one of the most effective punishers in the game. If he has it charged, be wary, because it comes out fast, reaches far, and can't be interrupted like in previous games... and it will almost certainly kill you unless he throws it at low % (generally they won't.)

The fthrow chaingrab... I don't think it works too well past 10%. He can land and spotdodge or roll away if he DIs right. I usually only do it once then immediately switch to dthrow.

 

[Coffee™]

*Snip*

Wow....your still following this thread...lol

 

[Ryos4]

DK is a huge problem for me when i play against a fairly good dk player who is in my clan. While he has never really beaten me in a serious 1v1. He still causes me tons of problems when i have fight him. There are a few things that can be somewhat devastating to you if ur not careful.

Nice lil combo of his is a bair>dkpunch. Ive been killed by this a few times, it combos pretty well. Especially deadly if u dont expect it. While u may see it coming when a dk does a sh bair lands and goes into a dk punch. But its also possible to do this mid air and it comes out really fast. If he times it correctly, i dont think the dk punch is avoidable if the bair hits.

Another combo dk players tend to use is if ur really close to use 2dtilts into 2 ftilts or until u move.

A killing combo that ive seen once that looked unavoidable once hit was a SH Nair>Side Special>Dk Punch. Hits u at the ground, pounds u into it and then kills you.

Ive also had a grab release combo used on me before. Basically its a grab and puts u above his head walks toward the edge and lets you struggle free. Grabs u again before u can recover puts u above his head again hops off and stage spikes you.

Something else to watch out for is his style of edge gaurding. If a dk sits pretty far away from the stage and just waits for u to pop up with a charged dk punch. He can act a few ways he can stop u from getting back on the stage once ur latched onto the ledge. U can try attacking while getting up or a ledge release to an f/bair and he will dk punch with the super armor and hit/kill you. If u roll on, u got a dsmash/fsmash/dk punch. Ledge jump u can get a running upsmash coming at you or even an air dodge behind u into a dk punch. So basically the best thing to do to a dk in this position is to offstage arrow to pester him and get him to either chase u off the stage or back off. Both of which will be in ur favor. Or you could try ledge hopping and pulling out a mirror shield and hope u got the correct distance and timing to reflect his dk punch.

Another great way a dk can edge guard pit is by hopping on the ledge, release into an up special and latch on again. he can do this over and over. And if hes not going in any direction ur mirror shield probably wont push him away.

If it wasnt for the mirror shield reflecting his recoveries 1-2 times in a 3 stock match, i probably wouldnt be able to beat a really good dk. All in all i would have to put dk in the advantage.

 

[kupo15]

The fthrow chaingrab... I don't think it works too well past 10%. He can land and spotdodge or roll away if he DIs right. I usually only do it once then immediately switch to dthrow.

I proved that it works until 40% since there is an invisible hitbox on DK so you can grab him out of the air.

 

[Doctor X]

You mean this, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X8lyiJOovU

Interesting. Did you have a thread about this? I couldn't find one. Have you tried it on human opponents?

 

[Chis]

Blah, blah, blah

Wow, you really are pathetic aren't you...
You really take a video game character so seriously? Pathetic >_>

 

[Dark Sonic]

Chis, quit being an *** and leave the thread already.

 

[Coffee™]

Aside from the matchup at hand, don't you guys think it might be better if we actually had written summaries of each character instead of the actual comments posted in the thread?

It would also be pretty nice if we had a list next to each character matchup listing the stages we would ban as well as the stages we could counter pick for each character.

 

[Doctor X]

Aside from the matchup at hand, don't you guys think it might be better if we actually had written summaries of each character instead of the actual comments posted in the thread?

It would also be pretty nice if we had a list next to each character matchup listing the stages we would ban as well as the stages we could counter pick for each character.

Listen to this man.

 

[CorruptFate]

Aside from the matchup at hand, don't you guys think it might be better if we actually had written summaries of each character instead of the actual comments posted in the thread?

It would also be pretty nice if we had a list next to each character matchup listing the stages we would ban as well as the stages we could counter pick for each character.

I have tried to do that in the past and it hasn't worked, I asked Undr and a few other (who knew each match up) when we first started this to give me a write up. And I have asked for stage bans and who has the advantage and why but people dont seem to post that much, so I kinda stopped asking. But I have thought about redoing this so that we have a master thread where all the links are and then a thread for each match up so that talk can continue even after we move on, this would allow people to talk about matchups for ever and if something new came up or had more to say about it weeks later they could instead of this "talk about sonic now, talk about DK now." and not alot of talk happens.

 

[Coffee™]

Do you mean to make a master thread where summaries and stage bans...etc will be, then make seperate threads for each character where we can continually discuss the matchups, then proceed to place links for each character thread in the master thread?

Also, I don't mind writing a few summaries, but if I do I would prefer if we actually discussed the possible counter picks and bad stages for each respective character before I did so that the information could be included in the summary.

 

[CorruptFate]

The master thread would just have links to the indivudal threads and the write ups, and the smaller threads would be constant talk about each person.

 

[Coffee™]

The master thread would just have links to the indivudal threads and the write ups, and the smaller threads would be constant talk about each person.

Sounds fine then.

 

[CorruptFate]

We'll wait to see if others like it first I dont wanta start making a bunch of threads knowone will use.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Pit mains, I'd like to thank you all for not being ignorant like so many different boards are, and actually taking the time to reconsider the Sonic match-up. I'm glad we reached an agreement, and achieved it kinda peacefully. Well, except when the flaming of Chis got involved, lol.
You guys are awsome.
I'll help you guys out when it come to the other characters that I use.

As for the match-up at hand, I can imagine DK's tilts/bair creating a huge problem for Pit with their range.

 

[CorruptFate]

ya thx Manic and I are redoing the match up thread like you can read in the posts above so that people can come back and revise reviews so taht they are more acurated and can have constant talk rather then a few people telling me ____ should be next and then gettign very little talk and moving on.

 

[kupo15]

You mean this, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X8lyiJOovU

Interesting. Did you have a thread about this? I couldn't find one. Have you tried it on human opponents?

Yes that is the one. Idk if I created a thread for it. I think I should now just so everyone knows but I did mention it somewhere....I have tried it on Humans and it works. You grab them from the air. Same with Bowser...

Pit mains, I'd like to thank you all for not being ignorant like so many different boards are, and actually taking the time to reconsider the Sonic match-up. I'm glad we reached an agreement, and achieved it kinda peacefully. Well, except when the flaming of Chis got involved, lol.
You guys are awsome.
I'll help you guys out when it come to the other characters that I use.

As for the match-up at hand, I can imagine DK's tilts/bair creating a huge problem for Pit with their range.

No problem. Im glad you did the same. There have been several threads where people stated their "opinion" and was ignorant to compromise so this was a relief. ^_^

 

[Coffee™]

Continue the DK matchup at this link guys http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197128

 

[Doctor X]

Just tried out that chaingrab on Smash64's DK, and it worked pretty well, though I wasn't able to get him all the way to 40%. Maybe I just messed up.

Great insight, though. Definitely good to know. I think this will shift this one in Pit's favor... I'd call it a 55:45

 

[CorruptFate]

Just let this thing die its to much of a mess and to hard to find anything good.

 

[Crystanium]

Well, for some information about Donkey Kong, he lands in high-tier like Pit does, so he's really good, just underrated. Donkey Kong is the second heaviest character in the game, and because Pit's KO potential isn't superb, it may be a bit of time to knock Donkey Kong off the stage. Donkey Kong is also quick for his size, and he can increase his opponent's damage percent in a short amount of time with his jabs and tilts. He also has a good range with his f-tilt and d-tilt. Anyone who likes to roll around will have to be cautious, since Donkey Kong's Down+B is anti-rolling, as well as his d-smash, which can KO. That's all for now.

 

[Doctor X]

I think the separate matchup thread thing is a great idea since it keeps things more organized and lets people revisit machups whenever new insight is discovered, though unfortunately it would kinda flood the board. I say go for it as long as the mods are cool with it.

 

[CorruptFate]

Thats why we dont open them up all at once, we only have a few going at one time then when talk dies down we start a new one, people can still go back and talk about it later if need be.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

ok dk vs. pit

for dk
1.will not die for a long time
2.can block your arrows with ftilt
3.kills you very early
4.can gimp you fairly easily
5.range advantage
6.can punish your aerials with a footstool - headbutt combo, meaning 14% and a move of his choice if you miss a glide attack or laggy aerial.
7.easy to keep momentum

For pit
1.Cg at low percents
2.can rack up damage easily
3.shield gimps... sigh
4.can camp a bit
5.difficult for dk to gain momentum

thats all i got, I'd say slightly dk's advantage just because he outlives you so long. your shield gimps can hurt, and its hard to get that first hit to start picking up momentum, but once dk controls the match, it's likely a stock loss, and for every shield gimp, we can gimp you back.

its a scary 6-4 for dk, but i think its 6-4 advantage dk