CorruptFate's Pit match up (Dead go to Master thread)

[CorruptFate]

Each week or till talk slows down (two days no post) I'll post a pix of a fighter then everyone talks about how to fight this character then after we are don't ill post the pages we talked on and a quote or two that someone said. We will also try to bring in people who use that fighter to be our "special" guest speaker and will answer questions and try to help us inprove the meta game for all fighers this way.

I would also like to have the Pit commuity's say on who has the advantage in fights involving Pit so When you descuss things in here please state/ debate if Pit has This will be the key I will use: A strong disadvantage (), disadvantage (), neutral (), advantage (), strong advantage () If you don't like how it looks or disagree then post and we will discuss.

~~For faster seaching hit: ctrl F, then type ~, and the name of the person you are looking for.

~Snake: () p. 1-2 we'll come back later
Dojo-snake

People keep telling me this and I keep getting confused. The only think I can see about Snake is his tilts. Powershield them and he's going to die. All I can suggest doing is learn to read his attacks and Powershield them. Then quickly follow up with a strong strike of your own.

Pits arrows can take out his down smash. also most snakes fight on edge because they only attack in 1 direction powershield and unpredictable rolls will take snake out also use angel rings on his projectiles since you get closer they will return faster and yea back air his up b

Snake can only hit you with his f-tilt if you get close. The same is with his grabbing. I use grabs with Pit as well and throw in a few grab jabs here and there. Try out this technique: Grab Snake, throw him to the left or to the right, and use the Angel Ring in that direction.

For the aerials you have to take advantage that pits has disjointed aerials while snake doesn't. You can beat his aerial game with decent spacing although you have to be careful in the air because he can pull a nade out instantly and just blow you both up.

For throwing grenades back theres a glitch where he can make you drop the grenade (if only one nade is out) so watch out for that but its always refreshing to see snake own weapons hurting him.

Pit does counter Snake. But don't say it too loudly. 99.999% of Smashboards will go to the grave claiming that both "Pit sucks" and "Snake can't be beaten by anyone."

~Wolf: () p. 3-4
Dojo-Wolf

Originally Posted by Undrdog
Wolf is the easiest to gimp. Go to town with your Smashes. You won't need them to kill and in the end your only real task against Wolf is to get him off the edge. You can guard the edge VERY easily as Wolf's recovery is very limited. He can't use his reflector to stall off the edge and he can't jump very far. His Up-B is like Zelda's in the sense that he can't DI after using it for awhile. A Wolf will always aim for the edge even if it's being guarded. He doesn't have a choice and once on the edge he's got some moves he can use that are unique to him.

Wolf won't spam as much as the other animals but be careful of his periodic blasts from his gun. A decent Wolf will use the laser to prolong combos on characters like Pit. Likewise be sure to use your Arrows in a similar fashion.
Rhyfelwyr: Pit's side-B is excellent for simultaneously reflecting the shots and attacking him, especially if Wolf is short hop blasting.

Wolf has some decievingly long ranged attacks. His F-Tilt is one of these AND is a multi-hit attack. Powershielding this attack can be tricky but either waiting it out or reacting quickly with a quick move can overcome this. He F-Smash is a beast of an attack. He'll lunge at you and even if blocked he may end up behind you. Pivot Grabbing is probably the fastest way to punish this attack.

Wolf's Bair is his best move. It has very little landing lag; comes out fast; has great knock-back; and doesn't outlast it's welcome. Just because you Air Dodge it doesn't mean you're safe. The Wolf Wall is a pseudo Wall of Pain WoP and can be very annoying.

Wolf has a few unique abilities on the edge. Most notably Scarring. Scarring is where Wolf is able to use his Over-B to actually go through the edge of the stage and appear well onto the stage. Getting hit by this guarantees a sweet-spot and will send you flying to some extent. Also if done while touching the edge it Wolf will teleport to the edge of the stage resulting in zero lag. If you can predict this it's easily punish. If not it can come back to bite you.

~Mr. Game & Watch: () p. 4-5
Dojo-Mr. Game & Watch

Game & Watch is buckets of fun. ^_^

Anyway keep in mind that G&W our prioritizes Pit in the air to some extent. Try to stay on the ground as much as you can during this fight. If he comes at you with an aerial try to Powershield it high on your shield and nab him before he lands. However this is really only applicable against his Nair, Fair, and I suppose Uair. If he comes at you with his Bair or Dair you'll have to think it through. If he's attacking with the Bair stay in your shield and get ready to attack with your AAA once the attack ends. He's fast out of this move and trust me when I say G&W players practice the applications of the Bair. Remember, it's a Multi-Hit attack. As for his Dair keep an eye on where he starts it. If he started the Dair relatively low to the ground then Powershield to remove shield-stun, but keep it on until he hits the ground. Then procede to whoop up on him. If he does it high up, your best bet is to short hop up air or roll out of the way and pelt him with an arrow as he lands. If the Dair is done from high in the air, assume he's aiming to Auto-Cancel it into an attack.

When on the ground look out for G&W's AAA. You will get caught in it on occasion. Powershielding doesn't help much and G&W's quick frame jumping animations can make it hard to know when he's coming out of it. From the AAA G&W is capable of comboing out of it.

The D-Tilt is still as popular as it was in Melee. Just keep any eye out for it and try to SHFair if you see it coming.

The F-Smash is easily Powershielded and you won't get hit out of the multiple hitboxes it has if you shield the first one. Powershield and pwn.

The D-Smash is popular too. But again, Powershield and Spacing works well. Be careful as Wingdashing will still get you hit by this move if you don't retreat with it fast enough.

Spam back if he spams you with his projectiles. Your's are better.

Don't worry about the bucket. Just make sure you keep an eye out for it. You can Mirror Shield it if you're far enough back to see it coming, of if you're just very intuitive. After he catches three of your arrows it's not like he can catch anymore, and if you're lucky he might instinctively toss his Oil Slick trying to catch more arrows. Only if he catches more then you hit him with should you give up on the arrow attacks. Arrow Looping REALLY messes up his bucket. He either won't be able to catch them or he'll be even more vulnerable to your Arrow Chase if he tries. From a far shoot your arrows then when the bucket comes out angle them up as to avoid him (start early as the bucket's hit box is a big bubble around him) then because the bucket is slow to put away charge him with an ART.

The Hammer IS a threat. Keep an eye out for it.

If you want you can try to nerf his recovery by chasing him off the edge. But with his aerial priority I'd suggest hanging back and waiting for him to recovery. If you can gimp him at the edge that's great. But in the end he's very light and if you've already knocked him that far off the edge, it shouldn't be too much longer until yo kill him in a similar fashion.

ARTing is very good against G&W because it ensures your weak-side is facing away from him if he escapes prematurely. A well timed F-Smash can hit through your AR but it's rare.

If his Bucket is full as he's recovering have some fun with Target Practice. He can't catch anymore and it's far to dangerous to go to him.

When he's recovering from below you can Bair him out of his Up-B and into most stages. It'll kill'm good.

~Wario: ()-() p. 5-6
Dojo-Wario

We didn't seem to get much talk about this but I would like to move on because noone is talking

If you manage to mirror his bike recovery he is 100% screwed, same goes for if the bike is on stage (They will try to eat it if that happens most of the time). If you are coming from above and he is on his bike, on stage or off, use AR, it will knock hit off (good for gimping recovery again). When you are recovering watch out for his fair and crazy DI, also watch out for the bike, they may try to throw it and it has a pretty big hitbox.
Watch out for his dair, super special awesome priority there (what move beats it?). He has a pseudo chain grab on pit, his bthrow, but it is escapeable through several means. His Fsmash and Waft have SA, 70% of the time you will lose a Fsmash battle. I have not been able to mirror his waft, which may yield something interesting.

I have only done two matches against a Wario, and he wasn't good. This will help me though cause Vegas has a beastly Wario (usually places second) that I have not faced yet, and this will help I hope.

Now i havn't foughten wario much but from the few times i have i've found that you want to focus on your reach and arrows. As he has priority and short reach this makes it so you stay out of his monster attacks and can still get a few hits off.

When it comes to getting the kill you wanta get out there to gimp him as soon as you can as he has great side recovery, and you wanta force him to use this early.

One last thing try to keep his bike on the stage don't destroy it or hit it try to defend it as he can't use it for recovery if you do. His focus should be to destroy or eat the bike when its on stage so you want take advantage of this defend the bike and just keep him away as you get hits off when you can. This will build damage and when you do get him off the stage he can't use his bike for recovery.

~Dedede: () p. 6-8ish
Dojo-King Dedede

1. his up b has a lot of landing lag, bair him when he returns to the stage (it sets up nice) if hes far below the stage, set yourself up at the apex of the up b (the top height) and bair him there. Never hit dedede while hes falling down or coming up, you will lose.

2. Weight is a problem. Camp the hell out of him to gain percentage. Nair is good up close (always land behind the shield or you will get grabbed) arrows are good far away. Watch for waddle dees, they eat arrows. Basically you're gonna have to have the percentage advantage. Save at least one kill move (not glide attack, killing dedede up is nearly impossible)

3. His reach isnt the main issue here, it's his priority and knock back. His bair has really good priority, it eats through arrows and is pretty spammable, it doesnt have knockback though. His uptilt comes out insanely fast and has knockback. Much like snakes... Watch out for uptilts out of shield. f-tilt and d-tilt, they have range, priority, but lack speed. These can be punished imo. The fair has slow speed and high knockback. A good dedede player will land this to kill you though. watch out when he approaches you in the air facing towards you.

4. Stage choice: You want to choose stages with either A) Floors that you can jump through (delfino, halberd) B) very little ground space (norfair, hanenbow) Or stages with high ceilings (jungle japes, hanenbow). Hanenbow fits all three in case no one else noticed. Japes is my 2nd fav stage to pick, norfair is my 3rd choice.

I never approach at an angle where I'm vulnerable to Inhale. Wingdashing is a good approach for this one, since it seems to make evading his chaingrab easier.

I think it's his reach, and chaingrabbing that gets me.
I dont want to use Angel Ring since I am vulnerable to a Dedede Fsmash, and its hard to take him out because of his weight. He does make a good chaingrabbing target though, and is a big target for arrows.

edit: this is all for against dedede didn't realize the topic changed.

smash attacks:

His smash attacks are generally slow and not your main concern. Watch out for the wadle dee doo w/e thing that shoots lasers as if you get caught in that he can hit a foward smash for a low percent kill. He can chain grab you into it so watch out for that. His best kills are probably utilt and bair (best as in most practical). Watch out for those. He has a good edge game with the bairs but your playing pit so just be smart and you should be fine fighting that.

His grab is the annoying chaingrab which you can't escape until he screws up or gets to an edge (you guys had me thinking I was insane earlier in this thread). They naturally like to grab. To avoid this watch your spacing. Keep track of where you are on the map. For example realize if he lands a grab will he be able to throw you all the way across final d or just one dthrow until you end up on the edge. On the same note be very cautious of walls and walk off maps. The common candidate is delphino which has walls and walk off ledges getting grabbed into either those are basically a kill for him if he knows whats he's doing. Also to avoid his grab game I tend to jab a lot and just be very mindful he really wants to grab you.

gimping.... He's not really that gimpable he's quite fat so it tends to be difficult to kill him. I'd recommend keeping a kill move reasonably refreshed and even baiting him to be over aggressive off the edge is often a worth while risk. His up b is fairly punishable. It has super armor on the way up and spikes on the way down so be mindful of that. It has a lot of landing lag if you spot dodge the landing attack you can punish with pretty much anything you want. He may aim for the edge to beat this landing lag if so your best bet is just to beat him there.

air game. He has a good air game. One thing I've noticed a couple dedede players do is if they get up a bit they'll get on the edge and fair to keep you from approaching. You can arrow loop and hit him but the most that will accomplish is showing off how awesome arrow looping is. I've found your best bet is going for a bair stage spike.

Also use a lot of arrows. He's a big target so take advantage of that.

~Pikmin & Olimar: () p. 7-10
Dojo-Pikemin & Olimar

Olimar is by far one of the chars I hate the most. Basically every Olimar I have faces loves to grab, and it prevents me from doing Angel Ring much since it is a disjointed grab.
The Stupid Pikmin are like the Shield and keeps my arrows away, but If i choose to make an attempt to reflect the Pikmin (side b move), Olimar can just use Down B to take them off, or he would just grab me again.
Because of this I may try to stay in the air, but then I usually get Shield-grabbed. "Let me go!" And the throws are what i fear to be stronger than Ness's B-throw.

The only thing I got that is quite threatening to an Olimar is the good old edgehogging, but that's just his common weakness. If only I was able to outsmart them without getting grabbed or hit by his annoying attacks... which can be hard to predict, and I hate his Spike.

From what i can tell you need to watch the pikmin line as much as he does because that will help dictate what moves he uses. ie. if he uses over b with a white, or smash with a purple.

Pikmin players love to use the side B as much as we love arrows if not more and you can't blame them it racks up damage fast and causes you to focus on the thing eating your face instead of him. To stop this use your N air it will kill the pikmin on you and you can approch with it. This will keep your focus on him and not the nat on you. Or use Wing dashing to approach because it will send he pikmin flying if you time it right. Don't shield them they still grab you and if you spot dodge to early they will still grab onto you around you feet. If you think you can be read to reflect them back a mid/ close range this wont do much but it will cause them to loose a pikmin and have to deal with it on him, at what point as Admiral Bowser said they will most likely try to D smash to try and hit him high as he does that (if you hurry you can even keep the thing on him longer and rack up more damage).

Super Armor on his nutral B: It looks like its faster then air dodging and with less ending lag. Try to use your up air or N air, as pikmin will use this as the fall back to the stage.

He can through his pikmin and they will stop your arrows try to flip that around block his pikmin with your arrows thats how they see it anyway. So spaming could be good here.

I think the way to beat him is basicly the same as IC's kill nana=kill pikmin. This will not work quite the same as he can pull new ones fast, but if you can wip out several as he is still in hit stun to it he loses smash attacks, kill, recovery, and friends with them gone. The best way to do this is hit him as he is coming back to the stage. It looks like they only have one jump so if you hit him as he is coming back to the stage they fall to there death and he can't recover that way.

The same stupid rule applies to pikmin as IC's don't get grabbed. Its not as bad with him but he can combo his grabs very well into fair and many air attacks.

As kupo said grab the edge after he has used his jump his up B will hit you and miss the edge. This can easilly stage spike you so be ready to tech it.

If you are trying to recover from either bottom corner of the stage watch out as he can use his over smash off the stage. They remain hit boxes until they touch the ground.

Also if you don't know his side B will not hit you out of your WoI even with it nibbling on your loins.

arrow spam for sure I think.
The problem with the grabs is each one has a different range. So if he misses with one, thinking you safe is not good. Unless you pay attention to the pikmin next and know there ranges, spacing yourself against his grabs are tough.

Hi there.
I came to the rescue(Kupo's Olimar friend.)

Okay for you guys arrow spam is nothing to be ashamed of we may not like it, but i doubt you like getting tiny creatures latched on to you one of which can send you from 0 - 42 . Then spending the time to get them off of you only to grabbed out of no where.

GIMPING works. But there's always a catch especially with Olimar me and some Olly friends of mine have come up with a tech but this requires a lot of precision. This involves us having enough time(or keeping up with our line which is not as easy as it sounds, but i'm getting better at it everyday)to organize our line to have a purple up next. Over B (the purple smacks you away) and then grabbing the ledge. But you will not see this alot especailly on wifi so GLF(Gimp Like :D)

Try to spend your time off of the edge when we are on. You may think your safe but *cue horror music* you are not. You can either have a yellow latched on to you(which you won't see coming because of the wierd angle it flies at) or just grabbed off the stage.

DO NOT RELY ON AERIALS.
Especially if we have a blue up next our aerials OUT PRIORITIZE YOURS. I am not saying dont use aerials but don't make aerials the only thing you do. You guys have great aerials but depending on what Pikmin we have next(blue and yellow) we out prioritize you guys.

Gliding.
For us gliding sucks. But for you guys you have two options. Okay the first is the regular gliding attack. It out prioritizes everything including our U Smash(One of the Best in the game,well except for white). So that's a good bonus. But there's also glide canceling. play ALOT! of matches oagainst Sir Lucario and he's really good. SOmething that always trips me out is gliding. If I try to predict a glide and attack him he glide cancels to an immidiate F Smash or F Tilt, so if I try to attck where I think he's going to be he just regular glide attacks. One thing though, when gliding DO NOT GLIDE DIRECTLY TOWARDS AN OLIMAR AT A DIAGNOL ANGLE! Our Pikmin chain at certain precents kill, by you gliding diagnolly your just helping out your own death.

If you have any more questions for me go to the Olimar boards and find my video thread and ask me to come here(comment my videos while your at it por favor...or just look at the ones inKupo's thread vs.Com same thing)
Hope I helped
wow I got a wall of text going on here.

Oh yeah.
great stages. Rainbow,and Delfino.

Smashville or Yoshi Island aern't the best stages for you.
and definitely don't do Luigi's Mansion(shoud be Olimar's mansion.)

Delfino is a crazy counter for Olimar.
When we are in deep water(meaning swimmable water) all of our PIkmin die except for blue. Not only that but you guys can come unders through the flying stage and Nair or Uair the hell out of us. On top of that there is not much we can do about it but try to Dair or Bair you, but that doesn't work alot.

Rainbow cruise. If our Pikmmin are seperated away from us for too long without us pressing Down B they just die. There's almost nothing to grab on to this whole time. Plus through more than half of the stage you are air born.

^ Most definitely. I mean it's not a gret approach to dash attack an Olimar, nor are many of your moves on the ground. Pit's gorund game is pretty good but it's not even close to Olimar's

No. Pirate Ship is a pretty good counter pick. Imagine we had 3 Pikmin and none of them are blue, then we fall in the water. We have to immidiately jump out of the water and try to get it back to safe land so we can pluck. This isn't very easywhen a good Pit player is near you tearing you up with aerials. Besides we are more likely to fall into Pirate ship' swimming waters than Delfino Plaza, because throughout almost the wholse stage we are surrounded by it.

Also you guys also pretty much avoid all chances of a spike, because even if we connect we still have to fall in water.We mostly spike with red, so we automatically use that.

:random:~Break to figure out who has the advantage and disadvantage in the fights above. I would like to start getting that up in here as well.: p. 10-11

~Ice Climbers: () p. 11-13
Dojo-Ice Climbers

AR works well always against them esp at the edge and Uair separates them. Utilt is also very good like Sidestep>Utilt

Chain Grabs: this is easily solved, simply don't get grabbed. The Ice Climbers a.k.a. the grab wh0r3s have the second lowest traction, one of the shortest grab ranges, and are very light weight. All that this means is that they can't shield grab most attacks. They will be knocked to far. If you do get grabbed make sure that you were able to hit Nana away before you were grabbed. With out her none of the grab combos are possible.
Thats all I can think of at the moment, hope this helps.

Here is how I try to see it just to play it safe. If a good Ic's gets the grab your dead they have a few chain grabs that works on any1 and can be turned around so that they don't run out of room on the stage. They can get you to as high of damage as they want then smash so the safest way to think is grab=dead. So lets go with the age old idea of "don't get grabbed" its sounds stupid and is a pain to hear but its true. So instead of thinking "it may be hard to do and they could mess up" lets think, "don't get grabbed" and "grab=dead" because thats what a good Ic's will do. So for talk about grabs how do we avoid them/ keep Nana away so they can't chain grab.

If grab is envitibly gonna happen, a looped arrow can help.

Also m2k litterly said this to my face when i hit him in the head with a pillow.

Sorry bout off topic Cfate. May Palutena Guide You.

Ice climbers your best bet really is the don't get grabbed. Watch your spacing don't dash attack unless its a gaurenteed hit and make sure you finish your aerials before you land. Also ice climbers have something similar to laser lock where if they catch you on your back they can trap you with there icicle things until you hit an edge. Although its not as painful as laser lock its still a pain that you can generally avoid by just making sure you don't land on your back after a hit. If all else fails and you get grabbed on your final stock you can always try pause comboing out but for some reason this is frowned upon :-p.

edit: to clarify pause combo was a joke.

I really think that your best bet is to force them to approach you.
The ice climbers have a weak aireal game which means that they will be approaching from the ground. This makes them predictable.

~Poke'mon Trainer: (), (), () p. 13-14 (not much)
Dojo-Poke'mon Trainer

I missed the character change. My main opponent plays PT as a for fun character or to be more precise he plays charizard as a for fun character and complains while playing the other characters that he can't just play as a dragon.

PT isn't a very good character so pit already has that going for him in the matchup. Still he does seem to matchup surprisingly well against pit.

First thing you need to get over is some of the pokemon moves are just kind of odd. Playing a couple games against just to understand there range and attacks is useful.

Charizard first because he's dragon. Charzard tends to be pretty strong straight in front of him but if you get at an angle he's considerably weaker. Rock slam is a move you need to watch out for just because its weird. It hovers a bit longer then you think it should if you shield it don't let your shield down to early. The fire breath is a bit annoying but you can di out of it without taking much damage. His fsmash moves him and is deadly so watch out for that. His glide attack isn't very good so just because you see him glide don't expect a pit level of glide attack. He's a bit heavy but once you get him in the air he juggle-able.

squirtle. The main thing I find with squirtle is you have to change your mindset against him. Both ivy and charizard tend to be more hard hitter type while squirtle is the fast hit and run type. My opponent hates squirtle's play style so I can't give you to much input on him. His recovery isn't very good so edge guarding him is a very good option. On the opposite side of the spectrum he has a decent edge gaurd game. As we're playing pit as long as you don't get to arrogant shooting arrows while recovering you should be alright.

ivy. I personally think ivysuar is the weakest of the three. He suffers from having teather recovery. So once you get him off the edge if your edgehogging he will not be able to recovery using his up b. He's also larger then olimar thus easier to juggle with slower attacks. Some of his attacks do hit really weird though so understand what he can do before you go into this matchup.

Again my friend only plays pokemon trainer as a fun character and thus he doesn't play PT in the most effective to win style more the most fun style so I can't really say what a really good PT player will do its more just observations from my matches against the character.

With the exception of some large targets (Wario, if he counts as a large target), I find myself having the easiest time picking off big hitters (Ike notwithstanding). Charizard is only a threat to Pit if you let it become a threat. One simple strategy I use, and I'm sure this is not new, is to pluck Arrows after Arrows after Arrows and force Charizard to approach me. Its side-stepping and roll dodging isn't that great, so you still have a bit of an advantage. Its BAir is like a slower version of Pit's, so approaching an airborn Charizard with its back to you is risky, unless you space you attack (very easy with Pit's glide attack and FAir). If you take Charizard on face-to-face, watch out for Rock Smash; that hurts like hell.

Ivysaur has some powerful aerials as well as its USmash. Spacing won't work well here because if the opponent knows what they're doing, they too will be spacing, and Ivysaur's attacks already have great range to begin with. Being a tether-recovery dependant, I like to gimp Ivysaur every chance I get. Repeated BAir (or FAir since that's easier) to hit them further away from the stage (or completely out of the stage's boundry, resulting in a KO, but anyway), then make sure Ivysaur cannot grab the ledge afterwards. And don't worry about Ivysaur gimping you during a WoI recovery...Ivysaur doesn't have many options there.

Squirtle...hmmm...fast attacks, nice combos, a hard to stop BForward, nice aerials, and its a small target. For Pit, Squirtle may be the more difficult of the Trainer's three Pokémon. You can't really rush this battle, unless Squirtle makes a dumb move, and camping isn't effective, what with Squirtle's BFoward, small size, and speed; more so than any of the other Pokémon, Squirtle can approach you with no promblems.

I hope no one minds if I pop in for a little bit?

I honestly haven't played many Pit's since North American launch date, but I'll try to post what I thought at the time. Some of these strategies might be a little dated, though (Pit's).

I find Squirtle having the easiest time, here. Squirtle doesn't really fear the arrows in the slightest (His dash avoids them if you don't bend them and his pivot makes it difficult to aim them since he can move backwards so quickly) so I wouldn't really try those as often as normal. Pit's range is also really small, and Squirtle really likes that, since it's usually his main problem. From what I remember, Pit has a hard time getting kills without Bair, so Squirtle's doesn't mind his weight as much.

Ivysaur is mainly ground based, and Pit can outcamp it. At close range, however, I think Ivysaur doesn't fare so badly. Ivysaur will beat Pit out for range, and generally will try to keep you farther with Bair and Ftilt. Ivysaur's aerials aren't particularly strong, though. Ftilt kills if fresh, although Uair has good kill potential. Ivysaur's most reliable killer is Fsmash though, so watch out for that. Ivysaur hates being put into the air, though, so that's probably what you should do. Ivysaur WILL gimp you if you use WoI, as even the lightest attack will knock you out of it. Bair is a humongous semi-circle that executes quickly, and then it'll just tether back. Pit should do his best to get Ivysaur off the stage and then provide a good edge-guard with his multiple jumps if he wants to get rid of Ivysaur quickly.

Charizard doesn't really like arrows because they can bend and he has low jumps. Still, Charizard has larger range than you once he closes in. Charizard's Bair has more range than Pit's Bair if I recall correctly, and the sweet-spot will kill. Charizard is going to attempt to edgeguard you and force you to use WoI as well, and then he's going to hit you, if he doesn't outright kill you with Fair, Bair, or Dair. I think the one thing that you guys have failed to mention is that Charizard's grab range is HUGE, and Charizard likes to take advantage of both of his grabs to send you over the edge.

~Falco: () p. 14-14 (not much talk going on here)
Dojo-Falco

well I'm relatively new to the pit game, but I will definitely say you must absolutely avoid that chain grab at all costs, it will destroy you. I played a pretty good falco today and struggled. You have to make sure you take advantage of how miniscule Pit's lag is in comparison to Falco's. For me it was all about keeping him busy and on his toes with quick attacks that had little to no lag and taking advantage with a grab or regular A attack...also its really easy to catch falco trapped up in his AAA and holding it. (the one that stays out) It can trap him kinda easily)

For me, the arrow game is kinda destroyed by a falco user who knows how to use his reflector. However, I found his arrows good for mind games and making a falco predictable. Jumping into an arrow attack almost encourages a falco to use his reflector. I coerced the falco player into over using his reflector, which while it was useful to him, made him a little predictable and gave me opportunities to apply pressure by running in.

the laser is something you must be aware of. Being really good with the down be is a must in my opinion. Personally I'm not fantastic with this yet, but I'm trying to get better. I can imagine that if you are a great Pit player, you will easily be able to reflect those right back with your quick reaction time. It wasn't worth being hit by a laser for the sake of getting off an arrow either. just to put that out there. and I never use my side B to reflect because with falco's speed in getting to me i was punished every time...and usually into the devastating chain grab.

I'm not sure what DLX combo is exactly, but from the parentheses I think I got killed by this...every time today. This is just downright scary. At low percentages it just starts into a nasty combo and at high percentages you are pretty much a goner. I found that you must avoid that first hit and make sure your always moving away from falco. moving into him gives him an opportunity to use his fast up smash which is pretty much his main kill move. his fsmash is really easy to avoid imo. Just avoid the first hit however possible. Haven't really developed anything yet since I am new to pit. I'd be interested to see how someone avoids being set up by that combo because as a newbie I found it difficult even reacting pretty well with shielding and dodging.

his recovery can be nasty, but can also easily be punished. its risky going after him at short range because his side b spikes you down. didn't know that till today. so if hes got an easy recovery and can make it back with his side b I'd recommend picking a spot and if your quick at reactions jump and aerial down a immediately and you'll hit him since his trajectory is straight across. if he's far away I usually just go after him with arrows for the safe side and if i'm trying to get a KO I just got at him as I would any other character. Not really sure of a strategy here.

either way, don't blast me. Like I said...I'm new to Pit and brawl in general to be honest, but I thought I'd put in my two cents.

This is the third chain grab we've covered.... It's the same strat the post above this pretty much covered it. It's a nasty chaingrab. At low percents don't get grabbed. Around 40% he can no longer chaingrab you but I believe he can still combo an attack out of it. So uhh try not to get grabbed. But, the effectiveness of his chaingrab does deplete when your at higher percent so be willing to trade damage with him. By that I mostly mean try to projectile fight him. He can reflect it and spam projectiles as well so theres a good chance you'll take some damage but if you curve your arrow right you can get it over his reflector and you can reflect his lasers. If you can simply trade damage in the low percent thats a small win for you.

To say that again you can beat his reflector by curving arrows.

He can lazer lock you. This is annoying to the point I've seen it banned but don't land on your back or theres a good chance you'll take a ton of damage.

DLX is a pain. Keep an eye out for it.

Meteor- its worth watching out for but pit has the maneuverability off the edge that its not to bad. They'll often try to set this up with there chaingrab just di away and airdodge works. I haven't tried to attack him before he can hit the spike but it may be possible. If he goes for it while you are off the edge keep in mind your much more maneuverable off the edge so I'd recommend going for the gimp but still don't get spiked.

Also canceling it is important. If you tap up set to jump thats your best bet to cancel it. Just keep using that to jump until it cancels. There is a certain distance it'll hit that you can't jump cancel it but if you just spam up on the joystick you'll be able to jump pretty much as fast as possible. Unfortunately most pit's have tap up to jump turned off for arrow looping.
You can cancel with the normal jump button but theres a catch. If you press the jump button to early then you won't be able to cancel it with a jump. If you press it to late you'll die.
The third and option is it can be canceled with your up b. You can spam up b as fast as you can and it will activate as soon as it can. This has the downside that your down b is tremendously gimpable.

One of your biggest advantages is that his recovery is gimpable. I tend to be really agressive against falco's off the edge. His side b recovery is more of a pain. But its completely horizontal and an arrow can hit him out of it. This will generally force your opponent to use there up b. Mirror shield turns around falco's up b even if you hit it while its charging.
His side b tends to be pretty easy to edge hog so keep that in mind. Really I haven't decided whether going for aerials or arrows are better generally mixing it up seems to work just depending on the spacing.

One thing I've noticed that's note worthy is he has trouble dealing with edge stalling. I'm not saying hit an arrow and then stay on the edge for 7 minutes to win on time he'll probably be able to punish you for that. I'm more looking at the senario where there is 15 seconds left in a tourament match. Your at 0% he's at 35%. A chaingrab would probably give him the game. If you go on the ledge and up air when he approaches falco's tend to have problems punishing that. So you can wait out the remaining time on the edge and get a win. I should note that if you do this everyone will hate you and your a horrible person but good at smash.

Falco is too good. Everytime I go up against a Falco player, I automatically assume they're a good player. So I know two things going in:

1) Keep my distance from chain grabs, which leads into...

2) while keeping my distance, prepare for Blaster spamming.

It's saying something with a Pit mainer of all people has to complain about projectile spamming. But that's the corner you might find yourself in. Staying close leads Falco into using chain grabbing and that running attack/USmash combo of his; getting your distance provokes Blasters and Reflector-approaching Falco. Because Falco's blaster comes out more rapidly than Pit's Arrows (the 2nd best projectile in the game, only compared to Falco's Blaster), in a spam war, Falco will always win. And even still, Falco's Reflector can easily f*ck you over. Angel Ring < Falco's Reflector in regards of approaching while 'defending'. This is one case where I find myself preparing my Mirror Shield more often than against any other character (although the Angel Ring is great at gimping a Falco trying to get back to the stage using his Fire Bird special). If there was ever a character where Pit's Arrows won't do well against, its Falco.

If Falco Meteor Smashes you at a moderate percentage, you better hope its on your first or second jump. Otherwise, you'll be trying to resurface with your WoI too early, and now things get really tricky; I find the few Falco players I know personally (IRL) to be very effective at gimping Pit during his flight (It sets up for ANOTHER Meteor, too). When trying to get back to the stage, my best bet is to get as much height as I can, saving my last jump, and go into a glide. And if Falco Meteors you at a higher percentage, you're most likely KO'd, or very d*mn close to the bottom boundry of the stage.

Well, that's all I've got; Falco's close-fighting, Blaster, and Meteor. Hope it helped.

~R.O.B.: ()-() p. 14-17
Dojo-R.O.B

R.O.B. is a tough match up. I think the match up is pretty even only if you have a great handle of pit.
ROBs laser is like wario's waft except it charges faster. Watch out for this to be the first move of the game. The key is to pay really close to ROBs animations to warn you when he is using his projectiles. Good ROBs also know how to use their Gyro very effectively which is why its important to reflect them before the damage is done. If you miss the gyro reflect when it comes out and it is spinning, Use AR over it if you can.

ROBs aerials are beastly and pit cant match up with them no matter what. Three that really stick out are the Nair, Uair and the Dair. The Nair is an Amazing move. It has a huge range and stays out forever (until the fire is no longer there) The Uair also has a huge range which makes it hard to space your self while you are in the air. So either a Dair if your quick enough or an air dodge are the best options to fight the Uair. The Dair is a powerful spike move that you have to watch out for.

Recovery: ROB can stay in the air LONGER than pit can. He can also use his up b AND any aerial at the same time which is very effective. It is hard to stage spike him with a Bair because ROB will use Up B and the Uair to defend the ledge which will hit you if you are not really careful.

Another option if they are not close to the ledge is the Up b with a Nair. I find the best thing against this is the Mirror shield. This will knock turn him around putting him in more danger because his fuel is running out. Go for the multiple mirror shields. ROB does NOT get his fuel back by grabbing the ledge like Pit does. He must touch the ground.

When you are recovering, watch out for the Dair spike. This usually isn't a problem because you can avoid it by using WoI to push him out of range. Also, you can NOT use WoI to go under the stage like any other enemy because his laser is fast enough to hit you out of it.

When dealing with the ground, watch out for the sidestep to down smash. It is too effective and fast. If he sidesteps your attack, you better shield as fast as you can. Another thing to watch out for is the Dtilt. It is very fast and has tripping capabilities.

This is one of the more interesting match-ups. Both have great recovery. Both have projectile. Both lack some KO potential. R.O.B. is a heavy character, so don't expect him to be finished with you. At the same time, you don't have to worry too much about R.O.B., since he has a hard time defeating his opponents.

From my experience, in the beginning of the match, R.O.B. will often use his Robo Beam (neutral B), so what I do in the beginning, whether it is one-one-one or free-for-all, I use the Mirror Shield (Down+B). Even if R.O.B. does not use his Robo Beam, I still have enough space to put away the shield and perform any other offense or defense that I desire.

Now, while Pit does have two kinds of reflective abilities, R.O.B has one of his own. His Arm Rotor (Forward+B) can reflect projectile, believe it or not. What is more, he can alter his position by simply holding forward. This may or may not have any affect on your gameplay as Pit, though. After all, you can angle your arrows, and if R.O.B. decides to use the Arm Rotor, you are always able to use the Arrow Loop just to have it hang there until R.O.B. is finished. Or, you can just jump and then angle the arrow you fire.

R.O.B. has two types of projectile. The first is his Robo Beam. As noted above, you can reflect this. What you should be aware of is that R.O.B. is able to angle his beam upward or downward. If it hits the ground, it'll ricochet off of the ground and fly up. Always be aware of R.O.B.'s head. If that blinker is flashing pink, it means that R.O.B.'s Robo Beam is fully charged. He can also fire a stream of energy, even when it is not fully charged, so be on the look out.

I think his other projectile, the Gyro (Down+B) is easier to notice. Both of his projectile attacks take a bit of time to charge, and the Gyro can be fired if R.O.B. thinks that you're approaching him faster than he wants you to. Always be cautious of getting close to R.O.B. If R.O.B. is busy charging up the Gyro, fire Palutena's Arrow at him. If he doesn't notice this quickly, he'll leave himself open. At the same time, he can cancel the charge by shielding or rolling out of the way and charge it up again.

Now, onto R.O.B.'s recovery. He practically has the best recovery in the entire game. However, I have learned from Gum, a fellow SWF member and Samus main, that R.O.B.'s Robo Burner (Up+B) is limited. What I mean by this is that his recovery runs on fuel. If you hit him, and if he decides to use the Robo Burner again, he is wasting fuel. The only time this fuel ever recharges is when he touches the ground. In Gum's video, he had R.O.B. at the bottom of the left side of Final Destination. He continued to spike R.O.B., but R.O.B. kept on using his Robo Burner. Eventually, his Robo Burner gave out.

If you do decide to get into close-combat with R.O.B. while grounded, be on the look out for his d-smash. It can KO you if your percent damage is high. It'll cause you to fly upward, which will allow R.O.B. to position himself on the stage where he thinks it is best to be at. He can also recharge his Gyro if it hasn't been charged or used. Also look out for his n-air. It has a bit of start-up lag, but it is powerful and lethal if it connects.

I have a lot of experience with this particular one. Aside from some of the stuff that's already been said, I'll just describe my general strategy.

Use multi-hit moves as much as you can, otherwise you'll have a hell of a time with spot-dodges. Nair, uair, and AR work well, as does the jab infinite if he's shielding a lot. Once you've got him on his toes (basically letting him know he can't just spot-dodge everything you do), it's cool to start mixing in some smashes and fairs or bairs.

Use the mirror shield. A lot. It increases the damage and knockback of the projectiles it reflects, so if he slips up and fires one off it will seriously injure or maybe kill him. There's not a whole lot a R.O.B. can do to punish you if you've got it out besides run up, and you can almost always drop it in time to stop his approach.

Bair is your best kill move in this matchup by far so don't spam it for damage. He's heavy enough to survive most of your smashes, but a good bair at or near the edge towards the nearest boundary will get him at relatively low percents. A key thing to remember with this strategy is that once he uses his up-B, he cannot airdodge or fire projectiles again until he either gets hit or touches the ground. Use this to your advantage by forcing him to use it, wing-refreshing to chase him, then bait out an aerial attack and punish it.

Here's a match I had with OS's rob last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpM_HZ5uLDc

i play Nacker every ****ing day i think i can help with this.

1.rob is ****ing huge.
wen at far distance its easy to get multiple arrows on rob in the air seeing how hes hard to miss.
this bigness is also a bad thing. when trying to recover robs Bairs become his whole body so air dodging sometimes doesnt work. robs long range ftilt is also a proplem if trying to aproach
2.rob hurts in the air
rob can do his Fair just as fast as pit n can do it multiple times if u try 2 fight back. robs neatrul-air is also a move that is very tricky n can kill pit if your not paying attention. if a rob is ledge camping n u aproach pit can get Uaired easily
3.robs ground game
when fighting rob close combat its realy anyones game.pit's jab is very fast and is his best choice.grabbing rob is im****ingpossible, his spot dodge is way to fast n trying to grab will result getting Dsmashed.
all and all this is either a neautral fight or rob has some advantage. i have alot more but my wii wont let me type nymore

~MetaKnight: ()-() p. 17-18
Dojo-Metaknight

-His Up B is godly

His up B is a pain he already has one of the better recoverys in the game and his up B just tosses him up more. Don't arrow spam to edge guard MK they want you to. His up B brings him up a good distance then give him a glide if you hit him out of the glide then he can up B again. So you don't wanta give him that again so arrows are out. Mirrior works well here, fair might but you have to have perfect spaceing and timing.

-people have trouble with a tornado spammer (don't just put how to stop it but other things as well)
Most Mk's don't tornado to much I put this up here because many people seem to have a problem with it.

If he takes you into the air with him you can get out of the hit stun faster then he can get to the ground so use that. Mirrior the tornado just to through him off, stop it with attacks that have been stated and just avoid it in general.

-his speed and low/no lag, reach, size

As the good dr. said there isn't much you can do about his speed, reach, and size. You just have to find an opening and take it. For the reach its all spacing but with his reach and yours being very close and him being faster then you might not be able to do much. Size is a problem as it makes it harder to hit with arrows, and attacks in general.

-side step down smash

Grab him or AAA if you are ever next to him in this situation.

In genral I would say pit is at a disadvantage for sure, I would even go as far as to say a major disadvantage here.

You best bet in this fight is to spam your nair, and upair as the are multi hitting, auto canceling, high priorty, and fast... All things MK has on most of his attacks, so its not a for sure thing but the best I can see.

Up-B, Godly!?
It pretty much has good vertical killing ability when used from the ground, and if u r right by him, and it comes out fast, but not as fast as Marth's. This is perhaps the best Up-B when it comes to killing.

Tornado spammers
Seeing how this moves pretty much cancels out almost anything that Pit has, (Pit's arrows, Pit's Angel Ring, Rapid A, basically almost all of Pit's attacks), it really gives Pit a hard time when noobish players spam this. Ways to counter it is to use arrow looping and aim the arrow into the "mouth" (from above) the tornado, shield it (NOT Mirror Shield) until Meta finishes, then quickly attack, or try a D-air from above.
Some say that a timed Mirror Shield will reverse Meta's direction.

Sidestep Dsmash
Similar to the annoying ROB's, just say more painful and spammable. It may be predicable if u were facin a noob who would spam this. You could just try to predict it and counter it.

Speed with low/no lag
The one move that I see with the least lag is the Usmash, but even that is somewhat fast. Obviously his U-air is the U-air with the least lag and therefore makes it the most spammable U-air. I should know since I use MK myself. Pit may have to sometimes rely Shieldgrabbing or an attack outta the shield to land some hits. For my experience, you really must have patience.

Reach
F-tilt outprioritizes Pit's Rapid A, and Angel Right, and even rivals the range of some of his other good-ranged attacks. However, Pit's D-tilt barely outprioritizes Meta's Rapid A thing. Basically this poor angel has less range than Meta. You're pretty much done for if a Meta pursues you off the edge while you are using the Up-B to recover... his air range is just, long.

Size
Hard to hit him with arrows, or basically with any attack, and Meta's speed doesnt help.

Im pretty sure a Pit with great Meta experience (like me) would be able to counter many of these, and learn from both spamming and decent MKs. Facing speed chars are annoying anyways, especially when they got some KO moves... In this case, Meta gots too many of them, compared to other light chars.

I don't want to go to deep into metaknight because I know I won't be able to control myself so just a couple quick points.

His up b is really deadly. One of his primarily gimping tools is reverse crazy loop to hit you with the part where he's upside down. This can gimp you around 40% depending on how far off the stage you are. Be ready to airdodge it and just watch for its spacing. In addition metaknight has his fair to keep you off the edge and his dair is perfect for stage spikes. The point being don't be careless off the edge. A lot of matchup you can snag some free damage while your off the edge but against metaknight your goal needs to be to simply recover.

Also against the tornado. Ftilt is probably your best bet but it has a bit of slow start up so if the spacing isn't right just shield it. Mirror shield sort of works but its unlikely you gain any advantage by using it and metaknight can just keep pressing b to go over the shield and hit you. Even if you do reflect the tornado he can turn it back around at you fast enough to hurt you. Arrow looping to punish is the definition of impractical. Even if you pull it off its unlikely you'll take less damage then him. Your best bet is to simply shield it then try to punish. If metaknight lands on the ground he won't have any lag so often they will move to a platform a rasied point or simply some place on the ground after they've gotten there damage. Although because they land with no lag you can't really realibly punish it with one move I've noticed mk tend to just muscle memory a move they do after the tornado. So watch to see if the mk generally dsmash, shields, spot dodges or whatever. Predict what he is going to do and punish.

Almost forgot to mention the di for the tornado is important. Di up and the opposite direction he is going and airdodge you can generally escape it with about 4% damage.

~Ness: () p. 18-18
Dojo-Ness

mirror shield ness's recovery. That is all

Yoshis island is a counter since he cant charge his smashes at certain places. Sage also told me the shy guys cause trouble

Learn to smash DI out of his PK fire and be very, very careful against him in the air. His forward air will take you out of almost anything so you have to make sure to space it properly.

I say Pit has the advantage here, mainly due to Ness's recovery. Even without the mirror shield (which *****), you can pick him out of it with arrows until he's too low to come back at all.

Yeah ness has a huge weakness in his recovery. Ive never used the mirror shield tech against him though. What i found to work better is to either:
1. Jump in front of his pk thunder and take the hit.
2. Shoot out the pk thunderbolt itself before it has a chance to hit him. Ive done it several times. Just shoot it with an arrow and he falls to his death. Thats a time for a big victory dance cause u are awesome. woot. Mad props for anyone who can hit a tiny and somewhat speedy pk thunderbolt. (i have a replay of this, oh i was laughing so hard lol)
(Edit: It was a lucas that i have in a replay, oh well same difference.)

Pk fire does cause problems, but thats what ur 2 reflectors are for. U should be able to see it coming and pull out ur shield. If not the safest way is to just try to jump out of it. Though be aware that it does eat up ur jumps so dont attempt to jump while off the stage.

The thing u have to worry about most with ness, is his b throw. Most people are at a disadvantage when thier back is at the edge, unlike ness who does extremely well.

Last thing that is somewhat bothersome. Is his aerials. Fair bair and dair. They will all most likely out prioritize you unless u time things perfectly. best thing to do is when u are approaching him and hes air borne. Shoot an arrow in his direction. Doesnt really matter if u aim well, he will probably air dodge and thats when u go in for a melee strike.

Well anyway thats my 2 cents on pit vs ness.

~Sonic: () p. 18-19 and 25-30
Dojo-Sonic

Actually I think I agree. I wish I had more to contribute back then. I've had some more experience against him recently since Anther picked him up and EarthHero mains him.

I still think Sonic is bad and I revise none of my previous statements about him. However, I will add that arrows are generally not so great against him. He may not be able to out-prioritize you, but if there's one thing Sonic can do well is rush at you. Most of the time firing an arrow against a good Sonic will result in getting dash-attacked-- straight underneath the arrow punishing the lag-- which in itself is not usually that big of a deal but it does sacrifice control of the match which is really the main advantage you have against him.

Watch out for homing-attack edgeguards. They aren't particularly hard to avoid, but if you aren't used to them they can really mess you up-- taking you out of a glide from underneath, for example. There's really nothing you can do about that if he's below you already charging it, so if you're in this situation do not glide. You may be tempted to try to beat it with the glide attack but it almost never works and there's no reason to risk it most of the time.

Another thing... if he's on the stage above you and you have to use your WoI? You're dead. The spring from his upB will see to that if his homing attack or aerials don't. If he can't hit you with it he's a complete failure of a player. It's seriously impossible to evade. You simply can't move fast enough in WoI. As against every character, try to avoid being forced to use your Wings in this situation, but with Sonic make special note... yet another reason why not gliding when he's using his homing attack is important.

I had no idea Anther was using Sonic. Interesting.

And yeah, arrows against Sonic generally won't work. Spinshot, dash attack under it, generally closing the gap to safetly arrow spam is easy for Sonic due to his spinshot and his high ground speed.

A few of the things that annoyed me were that "there was lag from his dair." That'd be a pretty fail Sonic, as it autocancels from a specific height, and Sonic's won't use that attack much anyways because it's not that great.
Where dair does excel is in gimping. If you're WoI ing then a dair will kill you, and Sonic can safetly make it back to the stage afterwards because unlike ZSS', he can do things after it, so springing back to the stage is pretty clever.

Another thing that annoyed me was "Sonic is lighter and weaker than Pit, so use that to your advantage"
I don't get the notion that Sonic is light, he's in the upper half weight-wise and is infact heavier than Pit.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162374
Weaker is an interesting subject. I don't really see what area Sonic is weak in myself.

There's probably more made up things, but I don't care to go back and check.

One pretty important thing is Sonic's ground game. I think his ftilt outranges everything Pit has, which is pretty problematic for you. Also his ASC combos are a great way to rack up damage. If he's not racking up 30%+ each time, then they're doing it wrong.
I think both characters have a fairly hard job killing each other, none have really pronounced killing moves (Sonic's killing problem is MASSIVELY overexaggerated), Sonic being able to gimp Pit helps him, though.

Personally, I don't think this is a Pit advantage at all. IMO, it's 55:45 in Sonic's favour. The only thing stopping it being 60:40 and being an actual advantage as opposed to neutral is Pit's SH aerials, they've always screwed me over.

Yea, I know about the spring tricks and that is to be assumed. While your up there, its kinda predictable whats going to happen next. I mean, I have several options to try and counter your spring:
-Roll
-Shield
-Wingdash
-Run
-other options

Im not entirely sure what the best option is. I need to play a good sonic and experiment. But what usually comes after the spring is a dair. I could run away and pivot grab. It would have to be precise because of the no Dair lag tech. But besides the dair, he isn't really any faster than the majority of the characters.

You're right on that kupo. However, a good Sonic will use his spring sparingly onstage because they are aware of the threat of being landing camped.


That's the thing though, it's difficult to reason because there's little between the two.
The way I see it :

Pit > Sonic in the air
Sonic > Pit on the ground.

Factor in that Sonic can gimp Pit, and that Pit can kill very slightly earlier, and I think it's neutral (55:45 Sonic's favour)

I've actually read every single one of my posts in this thread. How many times have I mentioned the spring in gimping?
0
The spring isn't really all the great against Pit, he can avoid it. You just have to be only just above Pit or have great predicting skills to hit him with it. There are other options for gimping too. Homing Attack, spinshot -> fair/nair as they both have good knockback, dair (a semi-spike if the opponent DI's incorrectly, useful even if they do) and more.
The spring has a really nice knockback angle, particularly at higher percents though.
I'd advise to never ever use WoI though. That + Homing attack = death.

There really isn't that much use for the spring really offstage other than it being a straight falling projectile.
Onstage, it can be quite nice.

Dash attack late hit -> Up B -> uair -> death
The spring takes them both upwards, lol.

Well, I might as well take a stab at it.

dtilt has bad range, and although it sets up for aerials nicely, it's still hard to land. Decent move I guess, but mostly as a punisher because Sonic's f-tilt will just outrange it if you try to use it on approach.
ftilt has great range yes, but is also fairly slow. I admit it is a very nice ground option.
side B-I still don't get what the hype is about this move. Yes it is hard to punish if used correctly, but it really doesn't do that much damage and the opportunity to use it safely rarely comes up.
Pit's grabs-I agree.

Now for Sonic's ground game
ftilt-great range and very little startup. It is a great spacing tool.
dtilt-may be a little unsafe, but sets up nicely for uairs, grabs, utilt, jab, ect.
jab-zomg 3 frame startup goodness.
side B-invincibility frames during the hop (which tears through arrows), and chains into Sonic's aerials for quick damage building
grabs-getting grabs with Sonic is rediculously easy, and his d-throw sets up for tech chasing quite nicely.

Also, I'd just like to point out that tier placement/tournament results have absolutely no place in a matchup discussion. DDD, who is tied for third in tournament results, has several large disadvantages. Marth, who is 7th by a wide margin), has one disadvantage.



If they're using the up B to escape aerial punishment, they're likely going to be facing away from you and dairing away from you, leaving the spring as a sort of cover (it's not going to do much, but it's keeping you away from me).

~Lucario: ()-()p. 19-20
Dojo-Lucario

Little info on his aura:
-It caps for most moves at 167 but the cap for any move is 170.
-if he is down a stock he gets a 20% buff if he is down 2 stock 40% (not sure past that but I would think its the same patteren)
-if he is up a stock he gets a 10% neff if he is up 2 its 20% (not sure past that but I would think its the same patteren)
-He gets no aura buff for damage until he is above 25%

Ill have info on this in a later post.

A pretty tough matchup seeing as he's one of the few characters who can consistently challenge Pit in the air, and his hitboxes on the ground generally outrange all of Pit's as well. His down-air is very dangerous and since it stops him in the air briefly it can really mess up your attacking strategies.

If you Mirror the Aurasphere when it's fully charged and he has any significant amount of damage, he's 100% ****ed, so keep that in mind and play defensively if you have to. You don't wanna get hit by that thing and you want to make the most of it when he throws it.

Lucario's recovery is easily one of the most gimpable in the game. Not only does his up-B lack a hitbox making it ridiculously easy to edgehog, it also has a bit of startup lag before he moves, similar to fox and falco. You can hit him out of this if you're fast enough. Arrows work very well for this purpose and can easily set up an edgehog.

I give Pit the advantage here cause of gimping, but don't take this matchup lightly.

pit def has the adv. i have played a couple of lucarios. Always watch for the Dair like he said. They like that move esp after a Dthrow. Good Lucario players can Extreme Speed into a wall cling if the edge is taken. Predict the Ball and reflect. They have crazy priority with basically everything. The Fsmash range is insane and bigger than you think. There goal is to hit you with the tips of the hitbox. You can easily escape the Side B CG with a jump. Wing refresh FTW

You play very silly Lucarios lol.

A lucario generally is going to stay airborne in every match he possibly can. He can space well on stage, but none of his grounded attacks are relatively quick, and his running speed is kind of meh, which makes it hard for him to do anything on the stage regarding combos.

I haven't played any Pits with Lucario yet, though (I always use ROB against him >_>) but don't understimate Lucario's recovery. I know every cool kid is doing it, but it not dealing damage is irrelevant. Why? Because he's rarely ever going to be using that Extreme Speed anyways. Yeah. Lucario has decent aerial DI, a great midair jump, and is floaty. Aurasphere, fair, and dair help him immensely on getting back to the stage. Honestly the only characters I've seen that have any hope on gimping Lucario so far would be Metaknight, Marth, ROB, and Ness. I'm not doubting Pit. He probably has the best game suitable for gimping a Lucario. It also allows Pit to land really his only good killmove; the bair. ES does no damage, and it does have startup. Like I said I don't have much experience with Pit, but being able to aim arrows is certainly going to hassle Lucario's recovery even more than Metaknight or ROB or somethin.

But like I said, I can't really make any verdict on the match yet. I'll play more Pits in the upcoming week and post here again I guess.

Okay, so I went on the lucario chat to help them with the Lucario/Fox Match up. So after that, ours changed to Lucario and I was like hey, you guise should come post stuff over here. And Timbers, being the beast that he is, came over and told all the false theories that were brought about here. Anyways on to what I have found.

The biggest problem I have found when fighting a Lucario is dealing with his Fsmash. None of our moves out range (cept arrows, but they are out prioritzed by it anyways), if they are using it alot back of and camp, and use arrows to force them to use a real approach. Any good Lucario will more than likely make contact with the Fsmash, and unless you Powershield it or he is touching you with his hands I would avoid trying to punish it because they have little ending lag and a pretty fast jab

Aerialsl: NOTE: I will put Pit's aerials first so I can type less: There are a few things about Lucario's aerial priority that will help Pit immensely. nair beats fair all the time, abuse that. Also fair will trade hits with fair and bair, still a better deal for us becasue we do more damage* for fair, probably even for bair. utilt beats dair 99.9999% of the time, theirs only wins if we time ours imporperly and they space it right at the same time. Dair beats Uair with proper spacing but is hard to do, so I suggest you airdodge instead. uair loses to dair when coming from directly below, but wins when skewed of to the side (hit with the blades). I have never seen a lucario approach with nair, so I wouldnt worry about it.

For tilts: The only lucario that I have ever seen use dtilt extensively is Azen, so I doubt you will see it too much, but out ftilt and dtilt and utilt are all greater than it (utilt will dodge it most of the time). The Ftilt is the most commonly used tilt for approach, I know our Ftilt will out range it, but will clank the majority of the time, I dont know about dtilt but if it does have more range then it probably has more priority, but no gaurentees. For utilt, my suggestion is DI away and up and airdodge, nothing of ours will come out faster than (correct me if I am wrong). They rarely (even less than dtilt) use it as an approach so not much to counter if they only use it for comboing purposes. (if we have an aerial that comes out on frame 4 then we can beat it)

Smashes: the dsmash is again not very common. very slow and predictable but they use it time to time, watch for it and punish. Upsmash is a very big surprise move, has many invisable hitboxes that last forever you see them use this shield, dodge, just avoid going near this move. I suggest using an arrow becasue he has very little cooldown lag after the last hitbox is gone, even though it looks like he has a ton, there are still lingering boxes. I mentioned before the Fsmash and I'll say it again, that is by far the biggest advantage they have.

Specials: Force Plam (sideB) is rarely used unless after jab-jab and they can combo out of it so becareful if the get the grab, if they miss the grab there is another 1 frame hitbox that is rather weak so just watch out for the move, but dont really worry about it. Aura Sphere, is another thing to not worry to much about because we have mirror shield, not much to say here. Double Team, again just as rare as dtilt, follow the same prcedure for marf's counter, not much to say here either. Extreme Speed, one of the few revoveries we cannot mirror, but it also doesnot attack so we can use that for our advantage, just aerial it to give damage, fair or bair work best. Any good lucario will not get edgehogged becasue they can wallcling after ES, so just try to take them out during the startup lag of the move.

You want to try to kill as early as possible becasue his aura will build (not good for us).

I give this match-up a 55-45 pit advantage, just becasue of there Fsmash giveing us major problems as well as us not being abe to kill very well. aside for that, get early kills and this matchup will not be a big problem

~Zelda: p. 20-21
Dojo-Zelda

The Din's fire encourages me to stop using gliding to recover. This results me in airdodging, mirror shielding, or using angel ring.

Use arrows AFTER Zelda uses her Din's fire to get a free shot while she is busy.

Usmash will keep me from using aerial approaches. Even wing lunging with F-air is somewhat limited, and I have to resort to ground approaches which is one of my bad spots.
Dsmash is typical...
Fsmash gots range, just DI outta it.

Of the Tilts, I'd say U-tilt is more annoying since it can replace Usmash if used right. As for the D-tilt spammers... what can u do?

I got nothing for Sheik. She's fast and annoying yet, easy to gimp via arrows and edgehogging.
Gah, I havent faced a Zelda for like 3 weeks.

for zelda you should watch out for her f smash and also u smash

both of those attacks limit where you can go so you should always lure to using one of those attacks and dodge them then punish her . Now for dins fire you should almost never glide against her because of it and when she does use it use mirror shield or airdodge.
Oh and use lots of arrows but watch out for her reflector

Arrows needn't be limited, really. I did come across a Zelda recently, and while I was using Palutena's Arrows, she would use Nayru's Love to reflect them. Then I thought to myself, "I'll charge up my arrows. When she sees me bring them out, she'll feel compelled to use Nayru's Love." So, I hit her twice. She picked it up after that. Then I did what any Pit player would do against those who have reflective attacks. I jumped and used Palutena's Arrows. I hit Zelda a couple of times. The thing is, when you do it this way, Zelda will be busy reflecting, and you won't get hit.

:shiek:~Sheik: p. 21-21
Dojo-Sheik

watchout for shieks aerials and chain jacket but ive rarely seen that used cuz i dont play that many shieks

the needles are a problem but one thing is that most shieks dont change to zelda for the kill but you dont really need to worry about her smashes except usmash and if ind that dsmash is not that good of a killer so just watchout for usmash

Seconded, by a Sheik alt. When when uncharged, a sweetspoted U-smash is devastating. This poses some problems for Pit, since it makes his aerial approaches that much more difficult and risky.

EDIT: I can add so much more with this post.

Concerning the chain jacket, if you're ever in doubt of what Sheik is up to with that chain, just arrow peg. It's a very easy tactic to notice as far as I know.

The scary part about Sheik is that she can set you up for a sweetspoted u-smash SO EASILY. f-tilt to add elevation, and then she'll just DACUS you and do a vertical one-shot. As any Pit player should know, that which does not kill us is not a threat. If she doesn't feel like going for a kill at that moment, she'll u-tilt after f-tilt locks and create extremely predictable knockback, even WITH DI considered.

The needles CAN be quite a threat if you aren't careful with WoI. Beware of that 225* angle throw. Not only that, when fully charged the needles can 'last' quite a while and maintain a death zone. More on edgeguarding, as long as sheik doesn't get edgeguarded herself, she can pose a lot of threats to Pit's recovery with her teather and a few well-timed maneuvers. Even if you do make it back to the edge, you can't stay on the edge too long, or you'll be d-tilted and set up for more f-tilt locks. Just if Sheik got you to the edge to begin with, you'll probably have to worry about a DACUS or even a H-smash coming your way as you're about to escape.

That aside, Pit does have quite a bit of priority advantage in the situation. Sheik's priority has been nerfed considerably since melee, and while Pit may not have a lot of range for a swordsman, it's still enough to out-range most of sheik's moves, albit bairs (though those always violate laws of brawl so that says little).

When on top of Sheik, your best option is to find a way to NOT be on top of sheik. Being under sheik is by far the best approach.

~Marth: p. 22-22
Dojo-Marth

Im the one to hate Marth because of that disadvantage.
The Tipper is something I hate, and it tempts me to use F-air or the arrows.

Marth will beat Pit in reach, which is another thing I hate. While considering the range, the tipper is still something that has to be feared, regardless of what char you are.

His speed is very similar to Pit's, which gives Pit players pressure considering how they wont be relying on arrows as much as they would some1 slow, like a Ganon. I have problems vs speed anyways.

For F-air, hate it. A Marth is prone to use this move very often as a Spacer for tippers, and with his range, it's rediculous. F-air can set up comboes, spacing for tippers, and Idk, this might force me to either shoot an arrow or try to reverse him with Mirror Shield.

I have never been Footstooled to a spike before, but by all means I hate that spike! I look for some revenge by wishing to Spike a Marth, or kill him with a Mirror Shield KO.

Marth's edgeguard capabilities are one to be aware of. His options includes F-airs or even Spiking, which could pressure a recovering Pit. It really depends.

Overall, Im having to dislike Marth for range, speed, and tipper, especially the stupid Tipper. Marth may have good edgeguarding abilities, but so does Pit. Mirror Shield his recovery or edgehog him, if you can predict the Marth. You just really have to be careful when facing one. Should you try to space (even though you are outranged) you might get hit by a Tipper. I guess it is 50-50 here.

Marth falls at projectiles.

Well one of my friends has a pretty good marth. The thing that gives me the most trouble would be his Side B the "Dancing Blade" when used with the multi stab. Mostly because i like spot dodge rather then shield, and its pretty hard to shield grab since he can space it so u cant reach.

The Fair isnt all that hard to deal with. Most marths tend to be moving forward when they do the Fair. So all you really have to do is roll behind them and work ur magic. And well instead of trying to space really good, just always be up in his face so his attacks if they do land, they will be weaker.

~Fox: p. 22-23
Dojo-Fox

He kills at 95ish with usmash and at that percent, the drill to usmash is a true combo if it lifts you up. Take that away from him and he should be nothing. If he is below the stage, easily stage spike him with the Bair. He should be really easy to gimp due to the bair because it is really long hitbox. I would recommend using the weak Bair so it knocks him down instead of the sweetspot which brings him up. Keep weak Bairing until you can edgehog. Just be careful of the illusion recovery but you can weak bair that too. I feel as if the Bair is a replacment for Melee Links "boot of justice!!!!!"

Mirror shield his aerials which will force a recovery option to gimp. I seriously killed a Fox at 10% from constant Bairs. Too good.

I'm pretty sure this is useless in the context of the discussion, and here.

Fox is less of a threat to Pit than Falco, but still a formidable opponent. You have less to worry about being gimped with him, however you still have to keep in mind how well Fox can combo mid-heavyweights; Pit being the former. He also has the ability to put you in a rather awkward position of helplessness: keep your distance and he'll laser you and reflect your arrows, close up he can either combo, u-smash or d-smash you- and that can be lethal.

If you anticipate his aerial approaches, you can avoid many of the problems that the usual Fox player can impose on Pit. Just remember he has a reflector, and a good one at that, and it will not only reflect your arrows back at you if you don't go for chin or toe shots, but can also be used as a stall for edgeguarding. Also know that one of his best recovery options- the f-air boosted second jump, is an attack that just keeps coming, and will set you up for combos if you're not careful. However, his Up-B is easily reflected (you can reflect him while he's "chargin' hiz firez") and he's quite easy to f-throw chaingrab for a few easy percents.

mmkay, fox is going to be a hard match-up, no matter what type of Pit you play. Fox can have a slight disadvantage or can get the upper hand, so for now I would call it basically even.

In a nut shell Pit has quiet a bit more priority than Fox, but Fox is very fast and can manuever in between Pit's moves. Also fox can kill alot quicker than Pit can so becareful of that upsmash.

man I really dont feel like typing alot right now, so Corrupt Just change ppl, I will update this later and PM you about it. Reason: I just worte one essay, have two more to do. So I dont feel like embarking on another short one.

~Diddy: ()p. 24-24
Dojo-Diddy

Diddy...
I have some knowledge bout diddy, since i used 2 main him...
diddy is sort of a tricky situation for a pit, that is not good with arrows. you have to be able to space, to do well against his nannerz gamez. constant arrows is what is needed. If you can grab his nannerz and use them against him, than you pretty much get that stock (in my experience).
against his edge gaurding game, you have to stay above him!!!! or else he will spike you. trust me on that one. you won't want to stay to the side of him cuz he'll use diddy hump or below him cuz he will use dair or upb.
some advice from hb...

in pits favor... although a reely good diddy is hard 2 beat

Arrows can be pretty good vs diddy because it interfers with his banana momentum stuffs. Don't make reflecting the throws obvious either. Pit has an advantage though, and if you're accurate, you can really mess with his recovery through arrows. That's all I noticed when I faced the only good pit player I ever faced

I fight a lot of diddy mainers. I really havent found any that could beat my pit. Most diddy players tend to be banana heavy. Which is both his strength but also his greatest weakness. For a banana heavy diddy you will always know where he is going to go. Hes gonna head to his banana's, always. U just have to plan accordingly to what will hit him when hes on his way there. Also most diddy players tend to overuse his smashes so they will most likely so they wont kill u till high %. Also for this type of diddy player, you can just choose BF and ruin his banana game just with the platforms, as soon as u slip on them, they will end up on a platform above you.

Oh but something i just love to do, is to edge guard by using his own bananas against him. Throw them at his rocket barrel. lol. Sure u could just use an arrow, but its just more funny this way. Though i have had barrels run into me and then kill me as well.

~Yoshi: p. 24-
Dojo-Yoshi

A good yoshi wont let you footstool them. AR is a good recovery gimper. Thats all i no

CorruptFate, even though you already said that you know pretty much nothing on this matchup, I could already tell because almost everyone who doesn't says that Footstooling is a good way to eliminate Yoshi's Recovery. It doesn't work in reality, especially against good Yoshi's. Since it doesn't interrupt attacks or Airdodging (Which Yoshi will do almost always when you're close), It will just never work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arm
When does Yoshi have Super armor on his second jump?

Throughout his entire jump. It is Knockback based so you won't beable to gimp him with Arrows until the 120's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Bowser
Well I faced a Yoshi earlier this week, and I can tell you that he is annoying.
Yoshi is kinda heavy and is hard to KO because of that. Then we have that Super Armor Frame jump of his.

I agree that the Eggs, B-air and D-air are very troublesome, and watch out for the F-air spike when you're close to the ledge while trying to recover. A Yoshi can just walk off the edge and F-air for a Spike, and I know how that felt... My Poor Wings!

Yoshi does hate our arrows when he's trying to recover though, for a Yoshi should try to save his 2nd jump, and doing it too early can leave him vulnerable.

When a Yoshi is hanging on the ledge, try to be careful. In my experience, the Yoshi can use his Egg toss to camp, and we cant spike him if he does that, though we can spike a Yoshi that hangs on the ledge for too long. Yoshi can also drop down and come back up doing a D-air.

Everything up to this point is generally true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Bowser
At times try not to get close to a crouching Yoshi, for he might be waiting for you to approach and perform the Down-B. Just shoot arrows at him.

Up to here... Like really? Did you think he wanted you to pet and hug him?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Bowser
That's what I got for my experience.
BTW, Try to use Mirror Shield on Yoshi's Egg Roll. I KOed some Yoshis that way

Yeah, that's evil, but most Yoshi's don't really use Egg Roll that much anyways



Quote:
Originally Posted by hugglebunny
ok, I play Burntsocks so much that I am probably an expert against bloshi (imo)

Who are you calling Bloshi, Sit? >: (


Quote:
Originally Posted by hugglebunny
ok, AR is probably the best edge guard along w/ nair and arrows.

All true, but you want to be careful with Angel Ring unless you are sure it will trap.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hugglebunny
You should camp alot against yoshi. Now, the particular yoshi i play can camp w/ yoshi's eggs (i still don't get how he does it?!?!) but if they start doing that, then you run and nair them or dash attack them.

He...... Aims? >_>

Plus Yoshi should stop camping if you start to close the gap. Pit isn't exactly agile either. Plus I would say for Yoshi to be careful with projectile use due to Pit's reflectors


Quote:
Originally Posted by hugglebunny
ftilt is probably one of your best friends along w/ fsmash. (now, the people who have played me know i barely spam fsmash )

Ftilt... not really, I usually avoid that move usually. Fsmash is a Pain though


Quote:
Originally Posted by hugglebunny
fair is probably the best killing move
but, a well timed bair is reeeeeeeeeeely good, since most yoshi's try to bair a lot, so a well timed bair could be a life savior.

I personally find Pit's airs bothersome, but I can usually get around them just fine. I generally become careful in the air on dangerous percents


Quote:
Originally Posted by hugglebunny
A good Yoshi can be a beast, and realy hard to win against. (or i just suk and bsox is reely good *try playing him sometime)

Who comes out in top?... I would I would have to say pit

Socks doesn't play online anymore, I think. Plus I think he says that the Matchup is neutral. Some of the other mains say that it's actually advantaged to us...

My experience on the Matchup is rather limited. I played against a few decent Pit mains (Not the Arrow happy ones), and also basing off paper, I say it's rather neutral too.

Again, I don't really know that much though....

~DK: p. 30-
Dojo-DK

~Pikachu: p. 24-
Dojo-Pikachu

~ZSS: p. 24-
Dojo-Zero Suit Samus

~Kirby: p. 24-
Dojo-Kirby

~Ike: p. 24-
Dojo-Ike

Wanta suggest who is next PM me or post and ill add it on the list.

Here are a few good links that might come in handy

Pit as a teams partner
Brawl match up chart

 

[kown]

i personally think pit is a counter character to snake.
I think spamming arrows will win this game.
remember snake is a very defensive char and pit can play offense from a distance.
throw nades back at him.
and use arrows.
his recovery is a great bair oppurtunity.
and use arrows.

 

[CorruptFate]

does the b air knock him out of it? I think pit can be a counter I'm looking forward this because Utahs best is a Snake (duh) and Snake is top tier so good to start there and work our way down.

 

[kown]

well even it depends when you hit the snake. But even if you dont hit him out of the recovery it still hurts him.

 

[nevershootme]

There's already a topic about this matchup

 

[KuroX]

If you hit Snake in either the mid-section or the head with the sweetspotted BAir, it's going to knock him of the cypher, and with enough damage, out of the ring.

 

[CorruptFate]

There's already a topic about this matchup

I know but this way it can be all in one spot and ill be going through every guy as time passes

 

[Ryanarius]

Theres already a big thread on fighting snake. Probably be a good idea to go into that thread and grab some quotes. I find the hardest thing in analyzing snake is snake players tend to play somewhat uniquely. Like kown mentioned them playing defensive while the main snake opponents I play aren't that defensive. for example one I play likes to use gernades, mines, c4 and what not to shorten the map then force the opponent into a bad position while another one tends to rely on predicting the opponent

 

[Undrdog]

Gah, you beat me to this. I've been conversing with some of the members of the SBR and we felt a thread like this would be good for back here. And here I was planning it all out too. v_v

 

[sagemoon]

I've already discussed what i think about snake. I'd say he counters pit, but most disagree...

 

[Ryanarius]

I've already discussed what i think about snake. I'd say he counters pit, but most disagree...

I tend to agree. One thing though, I think pit does better then most characters do against snake but the matchup still favors snake from what I've seen.

 

[sagemoon]

That is true...

 

[CorruptFate]

Gah, you beat me to this. I've been conversing with some of the members of the SBR and we felt a thread like this would be good for back here. And here I was planning it all out too. v_v

Ha I beat Undr woot mark this day people ya I was going to do it yesterday but my friend took the cords away. If you want undr you can write an over all review that ill put with the OP undr snake.

People keep telling me this and I keep getting confused. The only think I can see about Snake is his tilts. Powershield them and he's going to die. All I can suggest doing is learn to read his attacks and Powershield them. Then quickly follow up with a strong strike of your own.

Dry is right pits arrows cant take out his down smash. also most snakes fight on edge because they only attack in 1 direction powershield and unpredictable rolls will take snake out also use angel rings on his projectiles since you get closer they will return faster and yea back air his up b

Snake can only hit you with his f-tilt if you get close. The same is with his grabbing. I use grabs with Pit as well and throw in a few grab jabs here and there. Try out this technique: Grab Snake, throw him to the left or to the right, and use the Angel Ring in that direction.

For the aerials you have to take advantage that pits has disjointed aerials while snake doesn't. You can beat his aerial game with decent spacing although you have to be careful in the air because he can pull a nade out instantly and just blow you both up.

For throwing grenades back theres a glitch where he can make you drop the grenade (if only one nade is out) so watch out for that but its always refreshing to see snake own weapons hurting him.

Pit does counter Snake. But don't say it too loudly. 99.999% of Smashboards will go to the grave claiming that both "Pit sucks" and "Snake can't be beaten by anyone."

 

[Undrdog]

I've got a better idea if you want to go in 50/50 on this. lol I was going to make a webpage of sorts for each match-up after they've been discussed. Then link them each beneath a chart similar to the one in the Brawl Tactics forum.

 

[CorruptFate]

doesn't seem like im doing anything on that but I dont undrstand it all explain

 

[Undrdog]

My initial plan was the create a one page text dump outside of Smashboards that summarized everything we discussed about the particular character. Then link that page to the first post. Above the list of character match-up links would be a chart that showed the advantage or disadvantage Pit had against other characters.

 

[CorruptFate]

sounds good what do you want me to do?

 

[Undrdog]

I'unno. Lead discussion and update the first post? lol

And anyway I was told to get off my put and contribute to this. ^_^ So I will.

With Snake I see it as a matter of your playstyle. If you incorporate all things into your game, you have a 7 out of 10 advantage on him. If you play a reactionary hand-to-hand style against him it's roughly even. If you try to hold him off with arrows and rarely attack it's a 2 outta 10 disadvantage.

You can see how it varied this match-up is. I've stated my points various times around this forum so I'm sure you all know the points I'd make. Especially since a few of them have been quoted already.

 

[Crystanium]

You guys are more than welcome to take the format that I have created here in the Samus Match-Up Thread. Just quote me, copy what's there, and alter the information around to fit Pit.

 

[Undrdog]

Yeah I noticed that you'd made one a few days back or so. If CF wants to use my format though I've already got one ready to go. ^_^

 

[CorruptFate]

Will do. Undr's I mean sorry made a plan. From what I've seen (dont fight snake much) but they like to snake dash what I like to do at that point is either shART, or arrow to stop his movement

 

[kown]

With Snake I see it as a matter of your playstyle. If you incorporate all things into your game, you have a 7 out of 10 advantage on him. If you play a reactionary hand-to-hand style against him it's roughly even. If you try to hold him off with arrows and rarely attack it's a 2 outta 10 disadvantage.

if we include everything in our game im guessing thatd include spamming arrows. so ima agree with that.

 

[Undrdog]

Well not spamming, spamming. But occasional annoyance shots do help.

The Hyphen Dash should always be PowerShielded so that he passes by you. He's wide open for attack after he passes you.

 

[CorruptFate]

K so because we just went over snake in the other thread do you guys wanta just skip to MK now?

 

[Undrdog]

Hasn't MK been handled quite a bit too? I've already mentioned the fact that we have dealt with the three biggest pains to Pit numerous times to a few other people who aren't directly involved with this thread.

I'm sorry, did that sound suspicious?

 

[kown]

i want to go to wolf, falco, and i suppose MK, IC, and olimar.

 

[CorruptFate]

only because you said that now im confused again who do we want then?

Kown got there first I could go for wolf or Ic. Also we are like the only pits on the boards you guys go msn?

 

[kown]

wolf................

 

[Undrdog]

Nope, I don't like IM too much. Besides it's for the best that our conclusions be posted on the boards for those after us to see.

And I'm cool with Wolf. So long as you don't find my actions suspicious. ^_^

 

[CorruptFate]

K ill change the first post for wolf start debateing. and I ment Im for the random babble what not

 

[Undrdog]

Ok ya'll. Pop quiz. Which move of Wolf's causes Pit the most trouble? This is a very easy one so let's just get the ball rolling. ^_^

 

[kown]

f smash reflector my opionions and for rollers d smash.

 

[Undrdog]

Not was I was looking for. The Bair is probably the biggest issue Wolf gives Pit. Luckily it's not a big one. Once you learn Wolf's spacing he's just like any other character. Unfortunately hit Bair, and now his SJR Bair will start causing Pit users trouble as he can now traverse multi-tiered stages while spamming his fastest attack.

 

[CorruptFate]

So im no good a debating smash so most the time i stay out of it but because only 3 of us are on ill give it a go. If he is using his bair as an approch then you could just shield grab it right? If you side step then he can just get you with his low lag fast nair that lasts long enough to still hit you if you side step again.

 

[Undrdog]

True, Powershielding it is the best option. Grabbing him before he hits the ground though is a must as he can sidestep very quickly. However the first instinct of most players is to shield rather then sidestep so you might get the grab in if you're a little late anyway.

As for the Nair I find it rather easy to punish Wolf out of it. It seems to have very low priority. Just make sure you get him before he hits the ground.

 

[CorruptFate]

your right on the nair i ment if he is in you durning the side step animation. true you must get him before he hits the ground if Wolf is near you on the ground you get hit with either a mean u smash or a deadly f smash both are very fast attacks with good knock, reach and damage

 

[FzeroX]

Fair ***** Wolves. as well as wing dashing.

In my experiance fair will beat his bair and nair. I use it as a common approach. also Pit nair > wolf nair.

Wingdashing will get rid of those pesky lasers, as well as give you good mindgames.

I also tend to use mirror shiled more in this match, just because I can usually predict when my friend will fsmash. leaves him open for a AR to Dtilt which I abuse cause wolf is heavy. Also you can gimp his revoery like no tomorrow with the Mirror shield.

 

[CorruptFate]

true the mirrior shield does seem to pawn wolf and hes recovery is so bad and predictable if you can get him off the edge you know right where he is going so you can mirrior

 

[Aminar]

Iv'e never had much of a problem with wolf. Keep your distance, microangle arrows so they don't reflect straight back, gimp him alot, and Mirror the Fsmash/recovery. He's gonna have a hard time fighting you. Mirrorshielding a blaster close range gives nobody frame advantage but it damageshim and resets thegame momentum so it's usually a good idea. SH Angel ring can mess with his spam too, but it can be risky. Granted Iv'e never played against many wolves, but the ones I have played never bothered me.

 

[kown]

welcome Aminar. hmm wolf gives me problems for some reason but im developing a new style as we speak.