CorruptFate's Pit match up (Dead go to Master thread)

[CorruptFate]

lol i didn't mean it like that i ment its good to keep your distance as he has high priority and i think all of his attacks beat yours. But like i said i haven't foughten to many Wario's so im not sure

But yes i agree with you arrows are nothing compaired to what you can do with your blades at close range.

 

[CorruptFate]

What are your problems with D3 and how can we fix them?

Some things to start with:

1. Chain grab
2. Recover
3. Weight
4. Reach

 

[Admiral Pit]

I think it's his reach, and chaingrabbing that gets me. His Chaingrabbing might force me to use Up-B which might help me escape, but then, I dont think it actually helps trying to push him back.
I dont want to use Angel Ring since I am vulnerable to a Dedede Fsmash, and its hard to take him out because of his weight. He does make a good chaingrabbing target though, and is a big target for arrows.
I am afraid of those who may try to Dededecide as well, even though I did that when I was using D3. That's why I never approach them when I knock them off the ledge. Sometimes I think I do pursue them, but I forgot.

 

[Ryazan]

When I knock a Dedede offstage, I always go above to attempt either a Dair spike or a Glair. Most Dededes will use Up-B to recover if they get spiked, and gimping that is pretty simple. I never approach at an angle where I'm vulnerable to Inhale. Wingdashing is a good approach for this one, since it seems to make evading his chaingrab easier.

 

[Doctor X]

I dunno... I've only played against 2 good Dedede's in tournament and they beat me real bad. I don't think there's a way to escape the chain grab since, if he does it right, he'll git you before you come out of histstun. His recovery is tough to gimp due to the superarmor on the way up. Besides, a good DDD will seldom use it, and he's really tough to beat in the air even with Pit's disjointed boxes.

I'd say.. play really cautious with this one. Think playing Fox vs. Marth from Melee. You're faster, yes, but he's able to punish you really bad if you let him.

 

[sagemoon]

1. You can roll or spotdodge out of the chain grab

2. his up b has a lot of landing lag, bair him when he returns to the stage (it sets up nice) if hes far below the stage, set yourself up at the apex of the up b (the top height) and bair him there. Never hit dedede while hes falling down or coming up, you will lose.

3. Weight is a problem. Camp the hell out of him to gain percentage. Nair is good up close (always land behind the shield or you will get grabbed) arrows are good far away. Watch for waddle dees, they eat arrows. Basically you're gonna have to have the percentage advantage. Save at least one kill move (not glide attack, killing dedede up is nearly impossible)

4. His reach isnt the main issue here, it's his priority and knock back. His bair has really good priority, it eats through arrows and is pretty spammable, it doesnt have knockback though. His uptilt comes out insanely fast and has knockback. Much like snakes... Watch out for uptilts out of shield. f-tilt and d-tilt, they have range, priority, but lack speed. These can be punished imo. The fair has slow speed and high knockback. A good dedede player will land this to kill you though. watch out when he approaches you in the air facing towards you.

5. Stage choice: You want to choose stages with either A) Floors that you can jump through (delfino, halberd) B) very little ground space (norfair, hanenbow) Or stages with high ceilings (jungle japes, hanenbow). Hanenbow fits all three in case no one else noticed. Japes is my 2nd fav stage to pick, norfair is my 3rd choice.

 

[Ryanarius]

1. You can roll or spotdodge out of the chain grab

Are you sure? I thought you can only roll or spotdodge if he messes up.

Also on the note of counterpicks. Also be smart about what map you restrict. If there is any walk off stages (mario circuit or to a lesser extent delphino and castle siege) consider banning these or be ready to play defensively at sections. Also watch out for maps with walls (corneria or to a lesser extent delphino) getting grabbed by a wall equals 1 less stock for you.

 

[kupo15]

not necessarily ryanarius. Pit can get out of the chain grab at any percent so a walk off stage doesn't hurt pit. Walls are bad though. DDD isn't too tough. He is fun to play against. I think we should discuss Olimar next 100%. Verrry hard. I have some matches I will upload later for reference.

 

[Doctor X]

not necessarily ryanarius. Pit can get out of the chain grab at any percent so a walk off stage doesn't hurt pit.

You're in New Jersey? See if you can get a match against M2K's Dedede offline. If you can record a video of you getting out of his chaingrab, then you may be on to something.

I'm going to really look into this next time I get the chance... Tuesday at the very latest. I should have videos by next week of Overswarm brings his camera to my smashfest again.

 

[kupo15]

ok, ill try to get a match with M2K, I should be able to. And I know for a fact that Pit can get out. Ill let you know when I get that vid And that isn't a pretty sig lol..

 

[CorruptFate]

I think Kupo is right about the chain grab we had this talk a few weeks back it takes exact timing and if he changes his timing up even slightly he can get you again. Its very hard to do and you shouldn't count on it, think of it as a "if he grabs me i can try this and it might work" kinda thing like when you get grabbed and start mashing buttons on your controller. ;p So thats all you can do about the chain grab.

@kupo Sure we can talk about olimar next lets wait tell talk slows down about dedede though then ill change it.

On his recovery and how I deal with it (again I dont play D3 much so may not be the best advice) but and i know kupo will kill me for saying this but i don't go after him as his air game is bad *** I stay back hitting him with arrows then punish his Up B like Sagemoon said.

We all know pit has trouble with the heavy ones and D3 has great recovery to match so how do you guys handle that? Just hit him with attack after attack? It does make him a big target for arrows like sagemoon said.

 

[kupo15]

lol CF. Don't be afraid of DDD. You can match his air game. He is such a big target which makes for so much fun and protection. His recovery is soo easy to gimp as long as you can force him to up B. Leave the spammy arrows for olimar. That is a match up no Pit should be ashamed of arrow spam. XD

 

[CorruptFate]

Doesn't his air game beat Pits almost every time they hit? I do agree on the rest he is A huge target and that makes him fun to fight (who doesn't wanta hit a penguin after watching happyfeet) And his recovery is easy to deal with if you can force him to use his Up B.

 

[Doctor X]

I finally got a chance to try it and so far I stand corrected. Either that, or I can't use Dedede's chaingrab fast enough on my friend. I do remember trying to spot-dodge away from Joshu and it never worked... maybe I was messing something up?

I'll look into it more on Tuesday, maybe....

 

[kupo15]

Also I might add that DDD's chain grab is not hard to do once you get it down. Being that it is easy, M2K's chain grab is not any better than anyone else who has it down.

 

[Ryanarius]

According to the dedede forums he can chainthrow pit. The only time I've escaped dedede's chainthrow is when he messes up. Maybe with the right di and a perfectly timed spot dodge you can get out of it but I don't think that's the case.

 

[kupo15]

I don't think the DDD players know about the WoI. My friend was confident that he can chain grab me. After several break outs, he and his friend said, "Well I guess that doesn't work"

 

[CorruptFate]

I change my vote i played so D3 today and just kick his *** in the air with your nair and up air he is such a big target that you'll get most if not all the hits off arrows are good too but like its been said before swords hurt worse.

Also on the chain grab you can't get out of it with spot dodging noone can that way but with your WoI you might be able to because it can push him back or clink attacks but thats how hard the timeing can be is you need to match there timing to the dot.

 

[Doctor X]

I change my vote i played so D3 today and just kick his *** in the air with your nair and up air he is such a big target that you'll get most if not all the hits off arrows are good too but like its been said before swords hurt worse.

Also on the chain grab you can't get out of it with spot dodging noone can that way but with your WoI you might be able to because it can push him back or clink attacks but thats how hard the timeing can be is you need to match there timing to the dot.

If you can WoI you can do any other move... So I really don't see what stops you from spot-dodging out yet allows you to WoI.

I'll have more on this by tuesday...

 

[sagemoon]

if you can up b, you can spotdodge.

 

[Aminar]

And I think he can regrab you from your spotdodge, whereas wings pushes him away and launches you into the air.

 

[CorruptFate]

I've never done it so this is all from what i've heard but what I thought people ment buy his Up b can get you out is before you hit the ground you use your up b (this should stop landing lag, and regrab right after the spot dodge) it'll push him back away from you and give you the time you need to fly away or attack out of the WoI.

 

[Doctor X]

Alright, so after discussing the issue and playing with Kel a bunch tonight.... As it turns out, the only reason my friend was able to escape me, and the only reason any Pit should be able to escape in general, is because I (or they) is (or are) doing it wrong.

Dedede needs to shield-cancel his dash to do a standing grab, which has more reach than his running grab. Tell your Dedede-playing friends this at your own risk.

 

[kupo15]

ok if that is the case that would be why the DDD I faced wasn't able to do it. He always did a running grab

 

[CorruptFate]

K so again im lacking in experance against this guy, but from what I can tell you can't stay mid range or he'll just **** you.

Here are a few things to start talk:

-His smash attacks

-His Grab

-How to gimp

-his air game

 

[Ryanarius]

K so again im lacking in experance against this guy, but from what I can tell you can't stay mid range or he'll just **** you.

Here are a few things to start talk:

-His smash attacks

-His Grab

-How to gimp

-his air game

edit: this is all for against dedede didn't realize the topic changed.

smash attacks:

His smash attacks are generally slow and not your main concern. Watch out for the wadle dee doo w/e thing that shoots lasers as if you get caught in that he can hit a foward smash for a low percent kill. He can chain grab you into it so watch out for that. His best kills are probably utilt and bair (best as in most practical). Watch out for those. He has a good edge game with the bairs but your playing pit so just be smart and you should be fine fighting that.

His grab is the annoying chaingrab which you can't escape until he screws up or gets to an edge (you guys had me thinking I was insane earlier in this thread). They naturally like to grab. To avoid this watch your spacing. Keep track of where you are on the map. For example realize if he lands a grab will he be able to throw you all the way across final d or just one dthrow until you end up on the edge. On the same note be very cautious of walls and walk off maps. The common candidate is delphino which has walls and walk off ledges getting grabbed into either those are basically a kill for him if he knows whats he's doing. Also to avoid his grab game I tend to jab a lot and just be very mindful he really wants to grab you.

gimping.... He's not really that gimpable he's quite fat so it tends to be difficult to kill him. I'd recommend keeping a kill move reasonably refreshed and even baiting him to be over aggressive off the edge is often a worth while risk. His up b is fairly punishable. It has super armor on the way up and spikes on the way down so be mindful of that. It has a lot of landing lag if you spot dodge the landing attack you can punish with pretty much anything you want. He may aim for the edge to beat this landing lag if so your best bet is just to beat him there.

air game. He has a good air game. One thing I've noticed a couple dedede players do is if they get up a bit they'll get on the edge and fair to keep you from approaching. You can arrow loop and hit him but the most that will accomplish is showing off how awesome arrow looping is. I've found your best bet is going for a bair stage spike.

Also use a lot of arrows. He's a big target so take advantage of that.

 

[kown]

olimar n pikman heh? no idea really.

all i kinda know is too grab the edge but he will try to take you down with him so be careful of the stage spike.

The problem i ahve with olimar is that he sends his pikman out while hes sidestepping or shielding.
all his grab are DIable depending on percent. you just gotta make sure u DI the right way.
i dont reccomend attacking from above.

should we worry about the pikman dealing damage to us?
i say no because eventually you are going to attack them off and when you do think about it, it creates an oppurtunity for an olimar to grab you.

you can reflect the pikman back at olimar with AR and they will do damage to olimar IF they hit him.
hes small so curved arrows are best.
when he spawns they immediately grab for pikman. theres a really tiny oppurtunity to get an AAA move in or a grab.
i dont think mirror shield is any good in this match up.

i dont know his smash attacks well so someone else help.

EDIT: ryanarius i think were on olimar now. heh lol good points tho it should be added with all the other d3 info on the first page

 

[CorruptFate]

edit: this is all for against dedede didn't realize the topic changed.

smash attacks:

His smash attacks are generally slow and not your main concern. Watch out for the wadle dee doo w/e thing that shoots lasers as if you get caught in that he can hit a foward smash for a low percent kill. He can chain grab you into it so watch out for that. His best kills are probably utilt and bair (best as in most practical). Watch out for those. He has a good edge game with the bairs but your playing pit so just be smart and you should be fine fighting that.

His grab is the annoying chaingrab which you can't escape until he screws up or gets to an edge (you guys had me thinking I was insane earlier in this thread). They naturally like to grab. To avoid this watch your spacing. Keep track of where you are on the map. For example realize if he lands a grab will he be able to throw you all the way across final d or just one dthrow until you end up on the edge. On the same note be very cautious of walls and walk off maps. The common candidate is delphino which has walls and walk off ledges getting grabbed into either those are basically a kill for him if he knows whats he's doing. Also to avoid his grab game I tend to jab a lot and just be very mindful he really wants to grab you.

gimping.... He's not really that gimpable he's quite fat so it tends to be difficult to kill him. I'd recommend keeping a kill move reasonably refreshed and even baiting him to be over aggressive off the edge is often a worth while risk. His up b is fairly punishable. It has super armor on the way up and spikes on the way down so be mindful of that. It has a lot of landing lag if you spot dodge the landing attack you can punish with pretty much anything you want. He may aim for the edge to beat this landing lag if so your best bet is just to beat him there.

air game. He has a good air game. One thing I've noticed a couple dedede players do is if they get up a bit they'll get on the edge and fair to keep you from approaching. You can arrow loop and hit him but the most that will accomplish is showing off how awesome arrow looping is. I've found your best bet is going for a bair stage spike.

Also use a lot of arrows. He's a big target so take advantage of that.

I just changed it to Pikmin little late you were mostlikly typing that as i changed it.

edit: lol Sorry didn't realize you realized i changed it.

EDIT: ryanarius i think were on olimar now. heh lol good points tho it should be added with all the other d3 info on the first page

Ya I put it up there.

 

[kupo15]

Well, you can get grabbed from the ledge as well as from the AR. His grabbing is really fast and good. He does NOT have any lag from missing grabs at least from a standstill.

The hard part is figuring out what the heck is going on. The Pikmin make everything so confusing kinda like screening a Hockey goalie. I would say that approach with caution and this is a match up were spamming arrows may not be a bad thing. The important thing is getting him off the ledge because his recovery sucks. I wouldn't mind taking a hit trying to edgehog. But if you are good with timing, you can tap L/R before and get invincibility frames. Oli only has one shot at recovery unlike any other tether recovery person.

 

[CorruptFate]

Ivysaur can only use his Up B once as well btw.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Olimar is by far one of the chars I hate the most. Basically every Olimar I have faces loves to grab, and it prevents me from doing Angel Ring much since it is a disjointed grab.
The Stupid Pikmin are like the Shield and keeps my arrows away, but If i choose to make an attempt to reflect the Pikmin (side b move), Olimar can just use Down B to take them off, or he would just grab me again.
Because of this I may try to stay in the air, but then I usually get Shield-grabbed. "Let me go!" And the throws are what i fear to be stronger than Ness's B-throw.

The only thing I got that is quite threatening to an Olimar is the good old edgehogging, but that's just his common weakness. If only I was able to outsmart them without getting grabbed or hit by his annoying attacks... which can be hard to predict, and I hate his Spike.

 

[CorruptFate]

From what i can tell you need to watch the pikmin line as much as he does because that will help dictate what moves he uses. ie. if he uses over b with a white, or smash with a purple.

Pikmin players love to use the side B as much as we love arrows if not more and you can't blame them it racks up damage fast and causes you to focus on the thing eating your face instead of him. To stop this use your N air it will kill the pikmin on you and you can approch with it. This will keep your focus on him and not the nat on you. Or use Wing dashing to approach because it will send he pikmin flying if you time it right. Don't shield them they still grab you and if you spot dodge to early they will still grab onto you around you feet. If you think you can be read to reflect them back a mid/ close range this wont do much but it will cause them to loose a pikmin and have to deal with it on him, at what point as Admiral Bowser said they will most likely try to D smash to try and hit him high as he does that (if you hurry you can even keep the thing on him longer and rack up more damage).

Super Armor on his nutral B: It looks like its faster then air dodging and with less ending lag. Try to use your up air or N air, as pikmin will use this as the fall back to the stage.

He can through his pikmin and they will stop your arrows try to flip that around block his pikmin with your arrows thats how they see it anyway. So spaming could be good here.

I think the way to beat him is basicly the same as IC's kill nana=kill pikmin. This will not work quite the same as he can pull new ones fast, but if you can wip out several as he is still in hit stun to it he loses smash attacks, kill, recovery, and friends with them gone. The best way to do this is hit him as he is coming back to the stage. It looks like they only have one jump so if you hit him as he is coming back to the stage they fall to there death and he can't recover that way.

The same stupid rule applies to pikmin as IC's don't get grabbed. Its not as bad with him but he can combo his grabs very well into fair and many air attacks.

As kupo said grab the edge after he has used his jump his up B will hit you and miss the edge. This can easilly stage spike you so be ready to tech it.

If you are trying to recover from either bottom corner of the stage watch out as he can use his over smash off the stage. They remain hit boxes until they touch the ground.

Also if you don't know his side B will not hit you out of your WoI even with it nibbling on your loins.

 

[kupo15]

Unless it is the Purple. But only the really really really good Olimars look at their line to determine their next move. My friend eventually wants to get there but he says it is too tiring to think that hard and he just plays most of the time. But there are def instances where he will notice his next Pikmin and react accordingly.

 

[CorruptFate]

So the main problem that I see is getting grabbed. How do we deal with that? It has zero lag if he misses, great range, and good comb. Its not like we can try to space much because his reach on his grab and attacks are about the same as Pits for the most part. If we stay back and spam he can just toss pikmin, and its not like arrows can kill anyway. And at close range he can still grab, and good priority on the yellow pikmin.

 

[kupo15]

arrow spam for sure I think.
The problem with the grabs is each one has a different range. So if he misses with one, thinking you safe is not good. Unless you pay attention to the pikmin next and know there ranges, spacing yourself against his grabs are tough.

 

[CorruptFate]

Also stages like norfair or Hannbow can be great picks against him or any other tether because it sometimes messes with there tether recovery, causeing them to not grab onto any leadge.

 

[Dotcom]

Hi there.
I came to the rescue(Kupo's Olimar friend.)

Okay for you guys arrow spam is nothing to be ashamed of we may not like it, but i doubt you like getting tiny creatures latched on to you one of which can send you from 0 - 42 . Then spending the time to get them off of you only to grabbed out of no where.

GIMPING works. But there's always a catch especially with Olimar me and some Olly friends of mine have come up with a tech but this requires a lot of precision. This involves us having enough time(or keeping up with our line which is not as easy as it sounds, but i'm getting better at it everyday)to organize our line to have a purple up next. Over B (the purple smacks you away) and then grabbing the ledge. But you will not see this alot especailly on wifi so GLF(Gimp Like :D)

Try to spend your time off of the edge when we are on. You may think your safe but *cue horror music* you are not. You can either have a yellow latched on to you(which you won't see coming because of the wierd angle it flies at) or just grabbed off the stage.

DO NOT RELY ON AERIALS.
Especially if we have a blue up next our aerials OUT PRIORITIZE YOURS. I am not saying dont use aerials but don't make aerials the only thing you do. You guys have great aerials but depending on what Pikmin we have next(blue and yellow) we out prioritize you guys.

Gliding.
For us gliding sucks. But for you guys you have two options. Okay the first is the regular gliding attack. It out prioritizes everything including our U Smash(One of the Best in the game,well except for white). So that's a good bonus. But there's also glide canceling. play ALOT! of matches oagainst Sir Lucario and he's really good. SOmething that always trips me out is gliding. If I try to predict a glide and attack him he glide cancels to an immidiate F Smash or F Tilt, so if I try to attck where I think he's going to be he just regular glide attacks. One thing though, when gliding DO NOT GLIDE DIRECTLY TOWARDS AN OLIMAR AT A DIAGNOL ANGLE! Our Pikmin chain at certain precents kill, by you gliding diagnolly your just helping out your own death.

If you have any more questions for me go to the Olimar boards and find my video thread and ask me to come here(comment my videos while your at it por favor...or just look at the ones inKupo's thread vs.Com same thing)
Hope I helped
wow I got a wall of text going on here.

 

[Ryanarius]

I'm not that familar with this matchup but still I have a few tips that come to mind.

Olimar is super gimpable. Because of this your ftilt becomes a great move as it tends to have the most horizontal knockback.

Stage pick. I'd imagine you could really counterpick olimar I don't have any tournament experience but I'd assume moving stages like rainbow cruise and fzero (if legal which is rare) give him problems. Both those stages also have the benefit of not having ledges that can be grabbed so you don't even have to bother edgehogging.

 

[Dotcom]

Oh yeah.
great stages. Rainbow,and Delfino.

Smashville or Yoshi Island aern't the best stages for you.
and definitely don't do Luigi's Mansion(shoud be Olimar's mansion.)

 

[kupo15]

delfino is an olimar counter pick because the pikmin die at the part with the three (two?) islands