CorruptFate's Pit match up (Dead go to Master thread)

[DarkShadowRage]

How about Falco, and R.O.B.?

 

[CorruptFate]

How about Falco, and R.O.B.?

I'll put them up at the end of the list. The order of who is next is on the OP at the bottom.

We move onto Ic's once we are done with pikmin, then PT then we came get them. (Ill be able to give some input on R.O.B)

Anyway we still need to get some info up on dealing with grabs.

Thx kupo and for bringing Protoman in and thx Protoman for extra the help.

 

[Dotcom]

Delfino is a crazy counter for Olimar.
When we are in deep water(meaning swimmable water) all of our PIkmin die except for blue. Not only that but you guys can come unders through the flying stage and Nair or Uair the hell out of us. On top of that there is not much we can do about it but try to Dair or Bair you, but that doesn't work alot.

Rainbow cruise. If our Pikmmin are seperated away from us for too long without us pressing Down B they just die. There's almost nothing to grab on to this whole time. Plus through more than half of the stage you are air born.

 

[kupo15]

why does the blue survive? What do most olimars ban, Delfino?

 

[FzeroX]

why does the blue survive? What do most olimars ban, Delfino?

Have you ever played Pikmin? Cuase that game explains all the phenomena of the pikmin, why each do what they do (for the most part).

 

[Dotcom]

they brought some of the traits from the actual Pikmin games for example. If I throw a white out and it is walking back to me, say Charizard does his fire breath. That Pikmin will automatically die. But If I throw a red out and the same thing happens the red will continue to come back. Same thing with Snake's mines. he plants a mine the red will walk back to me because he is elementally resistant to fire.

If i latch a yellow onto Ness and he does his Pk Thunder trying to get back onto the stage, the Pikmin will just eat the Thunder(doesn't work on Lucas because his PKt passes through stuff.)Yellow(when latched in the right place) will even stop falcos lasers.

Blue is resistant to water so when we end up in water Blue will survive because it's water resistant.


Olimar's usually ban Delfino against characters that have a great time one that stage. Meta,D3, and Meta Knight. Same thing for Rainbow but that's just always a ban because we suck there.

 

[kupo15]

i should play rainbow more often ^_^
I thought it was something easy like that. How do pikmin die? By killing them when they are thrown i no but is it true that pikmin can get stuck on levels and die? Like in delfino the three island part. If olimar grabs the ledge, do the pikmin just fall and die? What is the best way to kill pikmin. Also, why would you use superarmor to block instead of an air dodge?

Yes I have played the game but never got into the story and such

 

[Dotcom]

Never played the game honestly, and I still don't know why I play Olimar.

Pikmin die when they are away from Olimar for a extended period of time, or attacked with something other than a weak projectile when they are not by Olly's side.

When Olimar grabs the ledge Pikmin just dissapear. They reappear when Olimar get's himself off of the ledge, but when OLIMAR has his hands on the ledge they just dissapear(btw why am I telling you all this when I have to play you later lol)

Air Dodge usually outranks a WAC(Whistle Armor Cancel) but Wac is something to fear. Rolling or Air dodgin are usually better than a Wac because the WAC takes time and precision to use it effectively. The SUper Armor of the whistle is only in the first few fromaes of the attack. If an Olimar was to perform a whistle and you attacked after those frames you would hit him just as you would if he did not perform a whistle.

WACing is more used in the air and more of a last resort or something to mind game with. if we spam whistle in the air your more likely to not try to attack us and just grab the air or loop an arrow at us than a BAir or a FAir, which at the time we start WACing would probably kill us.

 

[kupo15]

lol

I think the best use for the WAC over air dodging is if you want to dodge an attack and line your pikmin or retrieve your pikmin at the same time. So are you saying that if olimar grabs the ledge for a while, his pikmin will still be there when he gets up? I thought they just fall and die.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I played both Pikmin games and so here are their traits. Note that White and Purple Pikmin only came in Pikmin 2.

Red Pikmin are resistant to fire.

Yellow Pikmin are resistant to electricity. In the first Pikmin game there was no electricity, so their specialty was to carry bombs and they are thrown higher than other Pikmin.

Blue Pikmin are known to have Gills, and are resistant to water.

White Pikmin are resistant to Poison, and move the fastest. They themselves are poisonous when a creature eats them. How they do a lot of damage when they latch on to you I'll never know. They are the fastest, but also the weakest meaning they cant take much hits like the others, or so i think.

Purple Pikmin are fat, heavy and slow, but 10x stronger than other Pikmin. They are thrown at the least distance due to their weight. They can stun some creatures because of their power and weight.

 

[Dotcom]

(Don't know why i'm telling you all this when I have to play you later.)

Admiral's correct, I know just by looking on wiki when I first started playing Olimar.

Also i forgot another great use for a WAC is that if we do cancel the attack we can perfor a smash or any move right after, so look out for that.

 

[CorruptFate]

here is a link to the dojo where the creater updated it. It has the info on all the pikmin and how they react to everything it may come in handy. http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/pikmin.html

The WAC is would also be good for grabbing the edge and get super armor, where as an air dodge would miss the stage wouldnl't it?

Also Kupo again great job bringing in a pikmin player for this!!! Lets try to get som1 in for every guy we talk about from now on (I have talked 2 1 for IC's he'll do it)

 

[kupo15]

^_^ your welcome. ill see what I can do for the future ones. Does anyone have anymore questions? I think we realized that Olimar is too weird of a fighter (if you call him that) and shouldn't have been in the game lol. I don't like versing fighters with unorthodox styles lol IC also falls into this category. XD

 

[CorruptFate]

What about other stages with water like Jungle Gappes or pirate ship would you think those are good stages for us to pick because of water or are there other elements that help to make it more nutral for pikmin?

 

[kupo15]

jungle japes is banned. idk about pirate ship

 

[CorruptFate]

O I thought the offical list wasn't out yet. If so Utah rules suck.

 

[Ryanarius]

jungle japes is banned. idk about pirate ship

map bans depends on tournament host. Jungle japes and pirate ship are both often on although also often banned.

They don't seem like your best option for a counterpick though. I mean olimars biggest weakness is his recovery is a joke right? Now if we counterpick a map like pirate ship instead of getting the kill because he can't recover we just force him to land in the water and inconveince him in losing pikmin.

Also in my little experience against oli players I found I spot dodge and roll more then I do against most characters. He tends to be grabby and as you can't powershield a grab you got to be ready with the dodge I've found.

 

[CorruptFate]

map bans depends on tournament host. Jungle japes and pirate ship are both often on although also often banned.

They don't seem like your best option for a counterpick though. I mean olimars biggest weakness is his recovery is a joke right? Now if we counterpick a map like pirate ship instead of getting the kill because he can't recover we just force him to land in the water and inconveince him in losing pikmin.

Also in my little experience against oli players I found I spot dodge and roll more then I do against most characters. He tends to be grabby and as you can't powershield a grab you got to be ready with the dodge I've found.

Thats true but if Jungle japes is allowed I think it would be a great stage. 1st it kills his pikmin, 2nd the water drags you away fast if he has no pikmin then he has an even harder time getting out right?

 

[Ryanarius]

Thats true but if Jungle japes is allowed I think it would be a great stage. 1st it kills his pikmin, 2nd the water drags you away fast if he has no pikmin then he has an even harder time getting out right?

Maybe but on a normal stage if he misses the ledge he'd be dead. You stand a good change of getting the kill on japes but normally its a guarenteed kill. Still japes always tends to be a good pit map and I suppose he may be caught in the water more easily then he would miss a ledge but it seems like you could just do better then jungle japes against him.

 

[kupo15]

i wish skyworld was legal. destroy the ledges.

 

[CorruptFate]

You make a good point it would be easier to get his pikmin but the kill works better in there ill do some matches later today and see how it looks.

@Kupo The offical list isn't up yet (as far as i know) I pick that stage all the time. I heard of it being more of a counter pick

 

[Dotcom]

uhh Pirate Ship is mostly used as a counter pick for teams. but don't think because yo guys knocked us in the water, we are screwed out of our boots.

lue Pikmin can be hella scary:
Grab range is ridiculous
Top priority out of all our pikmin
Very solid smash attacks.

But it is a good counter pick for Olimar, if just because of the water.

 

[CorruptFate]

Thats what I thought I knew it wasn't way bad. But I figure because of your stage bans you would bann Delfio and Rainbow so I wanted some other choices.

 

[Ryanarius]

Thats what I thought I knew it wasn't way bad. But I figure because of your stage bans you would bann Delfio and Rainbow so I wanted some other choices.

Most tournies they'd only get one ban. Also the more I think about the more pirate ship strikes me as a bad map as it takes away their biggest weakness of dieing to an edge hog. Are you olimar players trying to trick us :-p.

 

[kupo15]

Just to let you know, we know the best way to kill an olimar is by edge hogging, but getting them off the stage in the first place is a challenge.

 

[CorruptFate]

K so I told the guy incharge of the match up chart to change the link for the Pit match ups to this thread (its getting used more and more up to date).

Any way because I would like this thread to have everything you could ever wanta know. So if you looked at the OP at the bottom I said we are having a break to talk about who has the advantages in these fights between the to fighers. so We are going to take a quick break before we move on to the Ic's to talk about who counters who from the fighters we have gone over so far.

If you look at the top of the OP it has a key (big disadvantage, disadvantage, nutral, advantage, big disadvantage) that I will be using. So please leave a quick post about who has the advantage over who for the fighers we have gone over so far and why you think that. This should only last a day or 2 then we can move onto the IC's.

 

[Dotcom]

^ Most definitely. I mean it's not a gret approach to dash attack an Olimar, nor are many of your moves on the ground. Pit's gorund game is pretty good but it's not even close to Olimar's

No. Pirate Ship is a pretty good counter pick. Imagine we had 3 Pikmin and none of them are blue, then we fall in the water. We have to immidiately jump out of the water and try to get it back to safe land so we can pluck. This isn't very easywhen a good Pit player is near you tearing you up with aerials. Besides we are more likely to fall into Pirate ship' swimming waters than Delfino Plaza, because throughout almost the wholse stage we are surrounded by it.

Also you guys also pretty much avoid all chances of a spike, because even if we connect we still have to fall in water.We mostly spike with red, so we automatically use that.

 

[CorruptFate]

So here is my input on the matchups I have requested:

Snake- Its either neutral or advantage, because at a far you win if he tries to pull out his granade your arrow can stop the pull and if he throws it your arrow will stop it dead in its tracks. You have faster attacks, and better reach on most attacks. He can kill you at a very low % but if you can space right and block/dodge its ok most don't have to much reach.

Wolf: I do thing Pit has the advantage like the chart says. You have more reach, better air game and is recovey can be very easy for a good down B to gimp.

G & W: Pit I do feel is at a disadvantage here as he can't spam arrows as much, G & W has fast attacks with not much lag more of duration on it, strong kill moves and good recovery. Which btw can be gimped just like gimping snakes or sonics, grab him out of his up B don't attack or throw.

Wario: Pit has the advantage here you out reach him, out range him, Wario's love there Dair and a pit up air beats it every time. We might have to come back to him later.

King Dedede: I feel pit has the advantage here yes Dedede has his chain grab but if we were to go by that the Ic's counter every1. From a far you can spam to get damage up, its easy to land a hit on him and gimp his jumps with arrows because he is so big.

Pikmin: I feel Pit is at a disadvantage here if not a big disadvantage, maybe its because he is so different to fight from the rest of the cast but as we just went over he can tie you in most situations if not win the best thing we seem to have is water.

 

[-: Trey :-]

=o I await a metaknight guide!
xD this thread is win btw, great pointers and stuff.

;D I'm not sure if this is even needed but my favorite little gift to all metaknights is my shields. The little Side B recovery happy metas are mah fav! xD just mirror shield and grab the ledge lol. o.o yea it might already have been here but I love it.

 

[Aminar]

I would say nuetral with wario, and nuetral with snake(just because nobody will believe counter.

Otherwise you are correct.

 

[Doctor X]

Snake- If you play smart I think Pit does indeed counter snake. Your projectile game beats his, no contest, same with your air game, and as long as you're very careful with your approaches you don't have to worry too much about his ground game. It's hard to think of a situation where Snake has the advantage over Pit, honestly.

Wolf- Similar to snake, though his ground game is faster with much more reach, and his air game still has the ridiculous bair that can beat most of your attacks, even the glide attack. He's much more difficult to approach, I think, but off the edge he's in trouble. I'd say Pit has the advantage, but I wouldn't call it a counter.

G & W- Wingdashing can really mess with his spacing, so unlike most characters I feel Pit can at least do something about G&W's bair and smash spam. Other than that, he's really hard to beat in the air and on the ground, and he can hinder Pit's projectile game a bit. Advantage to G&W, though by a small margin, I think.

Wario- Not really sure what to say here.... I'll go by what I know from playing him myself. I do know that a good Wario will seldom give you a chance to run away and spam, and the projectile game is the only place I'd really give Pit the advantage. You have to be very careful against him in the air and on the ground. Yes, you have disjointed boxes, but he has some very powerful moves, a lot of maneuverability, and an extra grab that he can start in the air. I'd call it about even for now... I need to actually play a good Wario in tournament.

King Dedede- His weight combined with his recovery is a major factor here, making him very difficult to kill using Pit's usual methods. His air game is very dangerous and his ground game no less so, and both generally have more reach and knockback than Pit's. Waddle Dees can make spamming arrows difficult by basically blocking the way, and the chaingrab goes without saying as a strong advantage. Advantage to Dedede by a small margin.

Pikmin- Not much I can say here... I've only played one Olimar capable of beating me in a tournament match. I'm inclined to give the advantage to Olimar if only because Pikmin win the projectile game against arrows and he can easily grab you out of either of Pit's reflectors. On the ground and in the air he almost invariably has more reach and priority, but if you can get him off the stage arrows, possibly followed with an edgehog, should be able to gimp him real good.

 

[kupo15]

lol no DDD is a pushover. Maybe not that much but it definitely is in Pits favor.
Olimar is tough and anyone who is faster than Pit is tough and ROB

 

[Doctor X]

lol no DDD is a pushover. Maybe not that much but it definitely is in Pits favor.

No offense, but seeing as you never played a DDD that shield-cancelled his chaingrab, I'm also led to wonder if you've played a DDD who really knows his character before. Honestly, aside from G&W he's one of the only matchups listed here I've had a real hard time against.

 

[kupo15]

its true I may not have played the best DDD player, but his up b is way easy to gimp. He is a big target, and his aerials ****. I know that DDD is in pits favor. I will be playing M2k soon so hopefully that confirms my thoughts. Hopefully I play his DDD since he is breaking DDD off and MK is his main in tourneys.

 

[Doctor X]

its true I may not have played the best DDD player, but his up b is way easy to gimp. He is a big target, and his aerials ****. I know that DDD is in pits favor. I will be playing M2k soon so hopefully that confirms my thoughts. Hopefully I play his DDD since he is breaking DDD off and MK is his main in tourneys.

If you ask him to, he probably will. Especially if you make it a money-match.

 

[kupo15]

lol im sure I can get a DDD match if I ask but, jw how much are money matches usually? like the standard?

 

[Doctor X]

lol im sure I can get a DDD match if I ask but, jw how much are money matches usually? like the standard?

There usually isn't a standard... I'd say $1 or $5 is common. The more you pay, the more likely you're going to get a really serious match. I tend to do $1 against people who place well, cause I'm pretty sure I won't win, but I want to make sure he doesn't sandbag.

 

[Ryanarius]

No. Pirate Ship is a pretty good counter pick. Imagine we had 3 Pikmin and none of them are blue, then we fall in the water. We have to immidiately jump out of the water and try to get it back to safe land so we can pluck. This isn't very easywhen a good Pit player is near you tearing you up with aerials. Besides we are more likely to fall into Pirate ship' swimming waters than Delfino Plaza, because throughout almost the wholse stage we are surrounded by it.

Also you guys also pretty much avoid all chances of a spike, because even if we connect we still have to fall in water.We mostly spike with red, so we automatically use that.

Still isn't the equivalent of falling in the water on pirate ship dieing on other maps unless the olimar play is just being reckless.

Snake - disadvantage, I just can't give pit the advantage here. You can arrow him but he can powershield and keep pressure on easy enough. The match is even until you get to like 110% each. Then you realize that snake has no problem killing you while your going to struggle killing him. Also his grenade pulling can render most your kill moves useless. You start a fsmash he pulls out a grenade and shields if your lucky you'll hit him early enough to blow you both up if your not the shield will block your attack and the grenade explosion while you take some damage. That's probably the most annoying thing snake does but he has lots of advantages.

wolf - advantage, pit fairly even on the stage but when he's off the stage its pit's win.

G&W - Neutral, he has a lot of really annoying things he can do but pit tends to be able to handle him better then most.

wario - slight advantage, definitely not an easy matchup but from my experience I felt pit has the advantage here.

dedede - advantage. Pit matches up really well against dedede. He can generally out spam the dedede at least significantly enough to force the dedede to approach. Pits jab can make it difficult for dedede to land a grab. Aerials are a pain but still pit plays smart he has the advantage.

olimar -I don't really have enough olimar experience to say. I don't think anyone plays olimar in my region :/.

 

[kupo15]

I played M2k's DDD today and I got out of his chain grab. If the DDD does it wrong, then the result is them doing a running grab miss animation. If the DDD player does it correctly, then the wings Cancels the grab animation as if you were to cancel a melee attack.

This has been proven before idk y ppl were doubting. If you can't get out then your timing is wrong. Experiment.

 

[kown]

duh you can get out of his grab, hes a fat penguin with a kirby factory inside. lol

but yea at least its settled now.