Copy Ability Tricks and Tactics

[Aurasmash14]

I can challenge that.

 

[Jeet Kune Do]

A good Olimar is actually quite difficult to gimp. With good upwards DI, well timed 2nd jumps, well timed up-B's, and well-timed whistles, Olimars have shown that they have plenty of recovery options. I did say "well timed" on all of them, but yeah, Olimars can usually time them well and pull em off.

 

[|RK|]

I guess, but if they're too far, they can forget about it. You can hang there w/out invincibility. While unwise, sue to spiking, if you can get this perfectly each stock, and/or kill them prematurely, you win.

 

[fromundaman]

If you want to just hang at the ledge, you'd better be prepared to do the get-up animation. A well timed UpB will stage spike you and result in you dying first.

 

[|RK|]

That's why I said premature kills One of those, and Olimar loses, if you get to him. And he has enough damage.

 

[|RK|]

Well, I assume I'll be doing Snake Kirby next.

 

[Lythium]

Great guide. I look forward to reading the rest.

 

[|RK|]

Geez, I am SO lazy... I'll try people. Maybe I'll give you extra since I am now officially on Spring Break.

 

[fromundaman]

Heh. What power are we on now anyway? I kind of assumed this thread died (glad to see it hasn't though.).

 

[|RK|]

I think Snake. But they already have a crazy detailed guide, and I hate paraphrasing. If I feel lazy enough, I'll just copy+paste.... but, *sigh*

 

[Blue Flash]

I think you should do Pit next, just so I can show it to my scrub friend and rub it in his face. He doesn't think Pit's arros have any use for Kirby.

 

[KingKirb]

I find that swallowing Olimar and getting his ability is very helpful for the Kirby vs Olimar matchup.

Kirby can use his pikmin against him to defend, pressure, and gimp.

If you're good enough, you can even out-camp an Olimar.


EDIT #1:

Also, I saw earlier that you said that almost everything gimps Olimar.

I'm an Olimar main, and I'd have to disagree with you. While I do admit that he gets gimped VERY often while fighting Kirby, I also know that a good Olimar usually gets back to the stage. People always under-estimate Olimar's Recovery, but if you use purple pikmin and aerials to punish edge hoggers, then you usually can get up easily. Also, you can learn to manually stage spike with his Up+B.

But, when I fight kirbies, I find that when they copy my pikmin throw ability, I get gimped HARD. Not only do I get gimped hard, but it is extremely annoying as they can out-camp me, and ruin my approaches. Seriously, Kirby's pikmin throw copy ability stops aerial approaches, grab approaches, EVERYTHING. It's so annoying -_-

Please consider doing Olimar's Copy Ability next.

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

DThrow > Bullet Seed = Sex.

Fthrow > Fireballs/AS = God.

Fthrow > Uair > FlameThrower/Fire Breath = Win.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Olimar or Snake would be good. If not, I'd like to see Bowser. Its really fun to use fire-breath in that match.

@RK Joker: Go ahead and just post the guide for Snake's nades if you want to do that power. We can start discussing the Kirby specifics afterward.

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

I don't like Snake's 'Nades...I can't use them at all... and...is there a difference b/w Kirby's and Snake's Grenades?

 

[sonickirby31]

i think RK Joker should do Sonic and CAPTAIN FALCON next.

 

[A1lion835]

If/when you do falcon, remember that the PAWNCH increase the height of all of our jumps.

 

[|RK|]

I. Grenades
Fire in the hole!

Grenades are possibly Snake's most used special, and for good reason. They have nice explosive damage and knockback, along with a surprisingly large blast radius and a lot of versatility in usage. Using the different angles of throwing (you also get a more horizontal angle and faster throwing speed if you shield drop your grenade and throw it like an item), you can usually contend well against other projectile users.

Shield-dropping
If you shield while you're holding a grenade, you will drop the grenade on the floor as Snake shields. You can proceed to roll away and let it sit there, or immediately pick it up to give it throwing properties similar to any item. Picking up a shield-dropped nade allows for more versatility, being able to throw it up, down, backwards, or forward, and at a greater distance. You are also not restricted to the standard grenade stance, giving you more mobility. In addtion, by shield dropping grenades, you can put up a formidable defense for yourself. This technique can aid in controlling the stage by providing temporary grenade barriers between you and your opponent, or placing quick grenade edgeguards on the ledge. It's also a cruicial technique to set up for Grenade Cooking, Grenade Stripping, and Grenade Countering. More on that in a bit.

Grenade Cooking
A very important skill to learn is "cooking" grenades, basically holding back a throw long enough so that the nade explodes near or upon impact once you do throw it. Experiment on your own to figure out your own method of cooking. There's the simple method where you just pull a grenade out, shield drop and pick it up again if you want for a quicker throw, and then just stand and wait until your desired time and chuck it(that's me ). Some people go so far as to air dodge/drop & re-catch with an aerial. In my opinion, it's your preference really. Varying your cooking times helps to prevent the opponent from avoiding the blast or throwing it back.

For a wide variety of Grenade Cooking techniques, checking out gammonwalker's guide is a must:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165922

For more info on aerial cooking and some other neat stuff, check out Psychomidget's Snake "tricksies" thread & vid:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157093

Grenade Stripping
Another useful trick is grenade stripping. After throwing a nade, you can time a shield drop of the second nade so that when you do so, it stops the first nade's travel in midair. I don't know how the heck this works, but it's pretty **** cool and very useful at preventing your nades from being thrown back. Watch the suprise on your opponent when they pick up a nade and you time the grenade strip just right so that the instant they throw it, it hasn't moved an inch. By then, it blows up in their face.

Lots of kudos to Thechene and WarriorJ for this discovery and sharing it, original thread here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157592

Grenade Countering

Simply put, if you're holding a grenade and the opponent hits you, in turn hitting the grenade, the nade will explode and hurt both you and your opponent. If you're shielding, the blast only hurts the opponent after and you come out unscathed, so essentially you can dub it a grenade counter. This nade trick is invaluable. It can help get you out of tight situations when you're being overwhelmed, and can cause hesitation in your opponent, making them think twice about attacking when you've got a nade on hand. This hesitation can either give you a breather or give you an opening to start being aggressive. There's a few variations of grenade countering. If you see your opponent approaching with an attack, pull out out a nade and roll out of the way at the last moment. They'll get hurt by the nade, and you're free from shield stun to follow up with an attack. As an approach, you can also pick up the grenade through a dash attack at your opponent, then immediately shield at the end as the nade explodes.

More misc. grenade tricks, contributed by Ruuku:

Hey abit_rusty, here's some of my grenade strats if you happen to be interested. These mostly are about edge guarding.

- you can drop a grenade by the edge, roll back and drop a second. Watch what your opponent does and hit him with an aerial, u.smash, or u.tilt if he jumps.

- from a safe distance, "cook" a grenade then throw at your recovering opponent. Use grenade stripping to make it drop with more accuracy.

- drop a grenade, catch it, then edgehog. The invincibility frames you get from grabbing the edge protect you from the explosion. I call it explosive edge hog, hahaha.

- drop a grenade by the edge, catch it, then throw it down. Roll back and drop another. Rinse and repeat while mixing it with tilts and u.smashes in between.

Did I mention the fact that I love grenades??

By the suggestion of thrillagorilla, let's do this! Here is the Snake Grenade Guide, above. How can Kirby use these tricks against Snake, and just how can he use them in general?

 

[thrillagorilla]

Thanks for posting this, RK Joker . For those of you who don't want to read the first link in the guide, the important information is that nades have a 3 second timer on them. Everything else is just a listing of what Snake can do to kill time to do whatever it is he is planning on doing with the nade.

Kirby doesn't have a way to travel across the stage nearly as well as Snake (DACUS) so I see the nades as a bit more of a defensive tool. Nade countering can be handy against tilting snakes at higher percentages, as well as potentially screwing up his gab game if he doesn't get rid of us fast. I think techs like Toon Link's invisi-bombing are also viable with nades, and are more useful for us due to our good air movement.

 

[A1lion835]

What's invisi-bombing?

 

[thrillagorilla]

Invincibomb (ibomb)
Probably the most versatile AT that Toon has.
How to Perform: Pull out a bomb, Jump, use airdodge then hit A instantly after (Almost at the same time).
Effect: Toon will do an air dodge and drop the bomb at the same time. This means that you can hit them with the bomb and avoid the blast and any other attacks at the same time.
Note: This can be used in almost any situation. Whether you’re attacking, defending, falling or rising, this is always a good option and should be used by all Toon Links.
Stages: All
Credit: CaliburChamp

I miss-quoted the name, sorry about that . I haven't tried it, but it should work if Kirby has picked up a grenade he has already dropped.

 

[Asdioh]

I think techs like Toon Link's invisi-bombing are also viable with nades, and are more useful for us due to our good air movement.

You know, I hadn't thought about that. That's a good idea.

Holding a grenade and using Stone is sometimes a good idea, if you're smart with it. I guess. I haven't actually done it in a match, but it's not something I've practiced much.

One thing I like to do with Snake's power is, when he's at a high percent, pull a grenade, drop it, grab it without letting go of the A button, and then C-stick (release A) for a surprise Fsmash KO.

:D

 

[thrillagorilla]

I hadn't thought of using the smash attack trick. Nice, Asdioh.

I haven't tested any of the Link tricks out with anyone other than Link or Tink. What other ones would be viable?

 

[fromundaman]

Quick thing that I'm sure you all know, but is best to keep in mind and in the summary: shield droped grenades get dropped behind us out of grab range, so we need to turn around to pick them up.

 

[|RK|]

My, that's quite limiting.

 

[|RK|]

April 29, 2009 - Snake Kirby Added

Dreadfully sorry about the hiatus, gang, but, at least its done, right? I would like some critique, on anything (besides my timing >_>).

 

[Shuzaku]

first of all RK Joker I'd like to show my gratitude for making this thread, it is extremely useful for Kirby players. If you don't mind I'd like to give some of my thoughts for GW and Snake

GW-
when i look at this power i think there's a lot more risk reward against a GW. however it could be useful in certain situations. Like you mentioned on the OP chef allows kirby for safer KO's. First thing a GW wants, when he see you taking his power, is a bucket. However a GW needs an empty bucket if they want to bucket brake. keep this in mind when the GW is at high %. still really risky though.

in my opinion swallow if the opportunity presents itself (i wont force the suck)

Snake-
kirby can't use nades exactly like snake. One thing snake can do with nades is trade damage with his opponent, kirby is super light so we have to avoid trading damage especially with a snake.

However kirby as alot more air options with the nades. such as spamming nades from off the stage to get rid of a spammy u-tilt snake.

The one thing i love about the nades is it gives kirby a lot of stage control, so knowing how your nades work on each stage is key. Keep in mind of slopes (halbred, yoshi, delphino, brinstar,etc.) cause when you throw straight down it changes the trajectory of the nade. Also objects will cause your nade to bouce off such as the statues in Castle siege, the tendon thingy, and bubbles in brinstar, blocks in green greens,etc.

Rock+ nade is also fun as well. while using rock from the air and holding a nade, when the nade explodes it stuns kirby a little bit in the air. (punishes air/spot dodge?) also it hides the nade, so if they want to grab you they get a surprise =D.

in my opinion a definitely must swallow.[/FONT]

 

[A1lion835]

Quick thing that I'm sure you all know, but is best to keep in mind and in the summary: shield droped grenades get dropped behind us out of grab range, so we need to turn around to pick them up.

I wasn't sure about this when I read it, but you're partially right. You know how when you land right on where someone is, they slide a little so you're not standing in the same spot? Well, if you drop a 'nade, it eventually goes too far behind you for you to grab it, but you can grab it in a relatively large window.

 

[|RK|]

So, I wanted to surprise you guys with a quick update on ZSSs Paralyzer due to my lack of updates recently. However, I haven't gotten much responses on the ZSS boards. Not all boards have guides as helpful as the Snakes and Pikachus. Nor are people as kind and helpful as the Mario boards. So, then. What can ZSSs Paralyzer do for us? What can it help us with?

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, I wanted to surprise you guys with a quick update on ZSSs Paralyzer due to my lack of updates recently. However, I haven't gotten much responses on the ZSS boards. Not all boards have guides as helpful as the Snakes and Pikachus. Nor are people as kind and helpful as the Mario boards. So, then. What can ZSSs Paralyzer do for us? What can it help us with?

Same way they help ZSS; grabs, fsmash, tilts, and aerials (especially bair). I wouldn't be surprized if you could easily set something up after fthrow at lower percentages too to help with even more Paralyzer set ups.

 

[|RK|]

Ah, but ZSS has no guide (as far as I can see, anyways)

 

[|RK|]

May 09, 2009 - Lucario Kirby mistake edited

 

[Xivii]

So far the copy ability which has helped me the most is Olimar's. Those pikmin have save my skin twice in a tourney and a few times during ladder play. Once you start spamming, the opponent completely has to change up their game style(over-b spam/grab spam).

 

[|RK|]

Hmmm... so you people want me to do Oli next, rather than ZSS?

 

[thrillagorilla]

Hmmm... so you people want me to do Oli next, rather than ZSS?

Don't see why not. Though I personally would like to go over characters that are more likely to be seen in tourney play such as Metaknight, DeDeDe and Diddy first.

 

[|RK|]

MK and Dedede... both of their abilities aren't that great. Dedede's is better than MK's, but is still an advanced (sorta) Inhale.

Falco, on the other hand... well, you can laser lock people as they're on the ground (after they've fell) due to being able to shoot lower than Falco, who can only lock them as they bounce. If they're flat, Falco can't do it.

However, you are likely (sorta) to see an Olimar in tournaments. He is B Tier, dontcha know.

But, I will need your (Kirby boards) help on this, since Olimar doesn't have a move like this. We'll have to figure this one out on our own. So I seriously need some discussion here, please.

 

[RoflWafflez]

I would love to see some Olimar ability talk, ive heard around that his Pikmin are very valuable in battle (and i think so too), but i have also heard some contradictory info saying to never suck him up.
Some clarification with the masses would be lovely.

 

[|RK|]

Hello? I would very much enjoy some discussion on Olimar's Copy Ability, otherwise I will very likely be unable to write about it.

 

[Percon]

I've said it once; I'll say it again - Olimar's copy ability is WORTHLESS. It might be useful against other characters, but not against Olimar, who has better range since he can do it in the air + can chose which he throws + can throw six of them.

 

[Asdioh]

I would love to see some Olimar ability talk, ive heard around that his Pikmin are very valuable in battle (and i think so too), but i have also heard some contradictory info saying to never suck him up.
Some clarification with the masses would be lovely.

I've said it once; I'll say it again - Olimar's copy ability is WORTHLESS. It might be useful against other characters, but not against Olimar, who has better range since he can do it in the air + can chose which he throws + can throw six of them.

There's someone telling you to never suck him up.

Here's me telling you that it's worth it:

Kirby with Olimar's ability has a projectile =D

This is a good thing, since you want to stay outside of Olimar's grab range and put pressure on him.

It's worth a try. If it's not working at all on the specific Olimar player you're facing, then change up your tactics. I would always at least try it though, this ability does have its uses.

I don't really know how much discussion there can be on this though....you have to be on the ground to use it, and you pick up random Pikmin and throw them.

That's it.