Copy Ability Tricks and Tactics

[fromundaman]

And they do pretty ****ty damage.

 

[|RK|]

Some people say it helps to gimp Olimar.

It's a shame, fman's right. The highest damage is 5%, with a white.

This doesn't seem to be such a great ability, besides providing Kirby with a projectile.

I do have some things that I hope you guys will cooperate in testing.

Firstly, Olimar's Pikmin Pluck has invinciblility frames, right? So would Kirby's ability start off with those minor frames? Are these frames still usable in midair even though a Pikmin isn't being plucked?

Also, do the Pikmin that Kirby plucks have any kind of order, at all?

Thank you all for your help.

 

[Percon]

Some people say it helps to gimp Olimar.

It's a shame, fman's right. The highest damage is 5%, with a white.

This doesn't seem to be such a great ability, besides providing Kirby with a projectile.

I do have some things that I hope you guys will cooperate in testing.

Firstly, Olimar's Pikmin Pluck has invinciblility frames, right? So would Kirby's ability start off with those minor frames? Are these frames still usable in midair even though a Pikmin isn't being plucked?

Also, do the Pikmin that Kirby plucks have any kind of order, at all?

Thank you all for your help.

I don't see how an attack with no knockback or stun can help gimp someone.

I'm pretty sure it's Oli's whistle that has invincibility, not his pluck. Plus, even if that were true, you can't use it in the air, where it's most useful.

The Pikmin Kirby pulls is slightly influenced by the terrain, but that's it.

 

[fromundaman]

Neither have invul. Whistle does have SA though.

 

[|RK|]

No, I mean the Olimar's say his pluck has about 2 frames of invincibility, last I checked.

And it may just be CPU's, but last I tried (today), it gimped excellently. You should try it with someone.

 

[|RK|]

Well. Again we'll have to switch up it seems. This topic doesn't get much discussion ;_;

Ah, well. Bowser's up next.

 

[RoflWafflez]

Im pretty sure Kirby's Pikmin are better than Oli's...even tho he can't use them anywhere like Oli can, they beat his and go straight thru them, and they ALL act like purples, meaning they all knock Oli back, none of them cling to him.
Apparently, Pikmin is one of Kirby's best way to avoid grabs, and just overall space better against an Oli, which we all know is essential against that little Captaint with the amazing range.
I have come to the conclusion that u should ALWAYS suck up Oli for his power, cuz they **** against Oli. If u dont like em, or theyre not working for u, then ur using them wrong...

 

[|RK|]

And that was the kind of response I was looking for. Thank you.

But geez, it'll still be hard to write about Olimar's ability...

 

[RoflWafflez]

Lol yea...i think what I've learned is that u can't alway listen to the Character boards, because many/majority of the ppl here either have differing opinions of things, even if others know for a fact that the exact opposite is what is the correct thing.

I guess we should just go on to a copy ability that is simple and we can all agree on.

 

[fromundaman]

I am currently awaiting a response from the Oli boards, but from the look of their guides, pluck does not have invul frames. Not sure where you got that idea...

As for it's actual usefulness... Not really sure, haven't played Oli enough to know.
However, if you want to gimp Oli, it's easy enough to do... you don't really need that... I mean it can help, but meh, for it to hit, he has to be at an angle where a simple edgehog would gimp him.

 

[|RK|]

From the Lucario vs Olimar discussion.

 

[fromundaman]

Okay, turns out I was wrong. It does in fact have invul frames from the time he plucks to the time the pikmin hit the ground apparently. Sorry for doubting you RK.

That being said, since Kirby's don't really hit the ground until much later, either he gets different invul frames, or none at all.

 

[Piety the Diety]

my favorite kirby hat is game & watch

 

[9Kplus1]

No Ivysaur? Bullet Seed is pretty fun but, whatever.

TBH, there aren't many more copy abilities that can be considered useful. Olimar is definately top priority for the next ability seeing as how Kirby's Pikmin help with spacing and can screw up Oli's recovery. DK's ability is pretty useful since Kirby can pull off a few combos with it... oh and the SA frames are pretty nice, too. Oh wait... Falco's Laser isn't up there? Kirby can abuse that ability pretty well >.>. Maybe Kirby can pull off a few Falcon Punches, but that's beyond sitational.

My personal favorite is Kirby's Nado. I just love lifting up MK into the air or just using Kirby's Tornado to recover from under the stage (...okay, I rarely use it against any of my friends who ***** around with MK unless my jumps are gone).

 

[fromundaman]

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again here: Kirbynado sucks. Really really hard. You get punished for hitting if the MK is good. He can easily swat you out of it with any of his moves, except maybe glide attack and *MAYBE* jab. Also, if you do hit him, he can sweetspot Nair you out of it.

On top of being able to punish you for swallowing him, it's a ****ty power.

 

[9Kplus1]

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again here: Kirbynado sucks. Really really hard. You get punished for hitting if the MK is good. He can easily swat you out of it with any of his moves, except maybe glide attack and *MAYBE* jab. Also, if you do hit him, he can sweetspot Nair you out of it.

On top of being able to punish you for swallowing him, it's a ****ty power.

Hence why I never suggested it as one of the copy abilities that are useful. I merely said that it was my favorite of all of Kirby's abilities. I even said that I rarely use it at that :/.

 

[fromundaman]

Just saying... you'd be surprised at the number of people who have thought it was a good move...

 

[9Kplus1]

Just saying... you'd be surprised at the number of people who have thought it was a good move...

:/ I guess people are stuck on that mentallity, "If -this- char can spam -this- move and get away with it, Kirby can, too". To me, it just looks too cool when I actually get it off without being punished.

Anyway, I've found Samus' Charge Shot and ZSS' Blaster to be a bit useful. Kirby's fast enough to actually use uncharged shots (Samus) to setup for grabs and a few combos while a fully charged shot can be used right after Fthrow at early %'s, which is great if you want to stack up a bit of damage after a KO and look cool doing it (screw anyone who has a Samus hat on and still does the Fthrow-Uair combo). ZSS' Blaster can be used to setup for combos or if you jsut want to get a quick grab off.

Then there's D3's Swallow, which basically gives your Swallow and increased range and oh, it's much easier to Kirbycide with that ability for some reason. I'm surprised that no one even mentioned that ability as a joke :/.

 

[fromundaman]

To be fair, while what you say is true, all of those characters are footstoolable out of an aerial inhalebreak (except maybe Samus, I forget.), which could be an incentive to not take that power. Also, can't FS anyone out of an inhale break with D3's power.

 

[9Kplus1]

To be fair, while what you say is true, all of those characters are footstoolable out of an aerial inhalebreak (except maybe Samus, I forget.), which could be an incentive to not take that power. Also, can't FS anyone out of an inhale break with D3's power.

Hm, never realized it >.>. I guess it's pretty much a toss up whether to keep that ability or spit it out. Footstools are definately a good reason not to take the power (even CPUs love footstooling!) while the combo potential from the abilities themselves would be great at early %'s... this is really tempting me to try both out. Spamming Kirby's Taunts at high %'s is the perfect mindgame for an Inhale.

 

[Delta Z]

Just saying... you'd be surprised at the number of people who have thought it was a good move...

Yeah, Mach Tornado is one of the few abilities that is literally worse when Kirby has it.

D3's Inhale has slightly more range, but Kirby's normal Inhale has more priority.

 

[|RK|]

D3's Swallow on Kirby... Kirby's still has more priority, so if you want the extra range, power, and a bit more lag, take it anyways.

Good point. I'm doing D3's now.

 

[|RK|]

June 06, 2009 - Dedede Kirby added

Betcha thought I was gonna write a joke article.

 

[9Kplus1]

June 06, 2009 - Dedede Kirby added

Betcha thought I was gonna write a joke article.

A decent joke article would be Kirby's ability :/.

PK Freeze is decent when I need to keep Lucas off the stage or when I just want to catch my opponent off guard for a second. It's not that useless against Lucas himself >.>. Oh and Pit's arrows help nicely against his recovery.

 

[|RK|]

Eh, they're still pretty useless, the PK abilities. You see, unless their PK Magnets have some serious end lag, there is nothing to do. In fact, since it takes so long for either of the PK Flash/Freeze to end, it can't even work as a distraction. Warlock Punch is more useful, and that says something. I'll attempt to do those two at the end, since they are useful in doubles.

 

[|RK|]

Okay, let's transition a bit... how can we reliably set up a Swallow to Copy?

 

[fromundaman]

Isn't that covered in the inhale guide for the most part?

 

[ThreeSided]

Dthrow > Utilt > Inhale works at low percentages for me if my opponent isn't expecting it.

 

[TechnoMonster]

F-throw -> Inhale works on a lot of characters at very low %. Its actually quite good on Falco (f-throw, u-air, f-throw, inhale) and Grenadesnake.

 

[momochuu]

Yeah, I prefer FThrow to Inhale. Or B Reversed Inhale.

 

[|RK|]

Isn't that covered in the inhale guide for the most part?

4) I already gave you 3, figure some out for yourselves! Mess around with inhale during friendlies and see what works for you, then come back here and share it with me/other Kirbies.

No offense here at all, but the three you gave involved mindgames, which isn't reliable on paper. Your guide is good; I'm just trying to find a safer way to copy so that it can actually be used reliably in our matches and matchup discussions. And then you could edit these ways into your guide too! Cool?

OK, lower percentages covered. F-Throw is the best beginning... however... what about at higher percentages? Because should you lose your Copy Ability at a higher percent, how are you getting it back?

 

[thrillagorilla]

No offense here at all, but the three you gave involved mindgames, which isn't reliable on paper. Your guide is good; I'm just trying to find a safer way to copy so that it can actually be used reliably in our matches and matchup discussions. And then you could edit these ways into your guide too! Cool?

OK, lower percentages covered. F-Throw is the best beginning... however... what about at higher percentages? Because should you lose your Copy Ability at a higher percent, how are you getting it back?

I'm of the opinion that inhale is almost always a better option to have at higher percents due to Kirby-cides, star-shot gimps and other little tricksies.

As for none of them being reliable... Nothing we do with inhale is reliable, RK. Its a move with little range, long start-up and lots of ending lag if we whiff. Any additional ideas as to how we might spring a surprise on the opponent is good, though. More options means we can do it with a higher success rate and without as great a chance of being punished due to a lower chance of prediction on our opponent's part.

 

[|RK|]

I'm of the opinion that inhale is almost always a better option to have at higher percents due to Kirby-cides, star-shot gimps and other little tricksies.

Nah, Kirbycides are too situational. You'd get off like, one a match, possibly. I prefer copy abilities. Especially those that can kill well.

As for none of them being reliable... Nothing we do with inhale is reliable, RK. Its a move with little range, long start-up and lots of ending lag if we whiff. Any additional ideas as to how we might spring a surprise on the opponent is good, though. More options means we can do it with a higher success rate and without as great a chance of being punished due to a lower chance of prediction on our opponent's part.

Yep, and more reliably. The focus is the BEST setup.

 

[Kewkky]

Zajice's Original Post

Snake Kirby is my absolute favorite Kirby, but they have to know how to use the nades well. A lot of this is stuff I've done before, because I love messing with Snake Kirby.

Whenever I play as Snake Kirby, I start playing a lot like I do when I'm Snake. I have a nade out at every opportunity. Kirby has great control of the nades with his aerial mobility, so he can jump and move in just the right spot to throw it. Don't forget he can do every trick we can do too. Shield dropped grenades, grenade stripping, grenade grabbing, everything really, with the added bonus of being able to use them in the air and off stage far better than we can. I've actually floated off-stage as Kirby and thrown nades until Snake gets blown away by one. Snake can throw one while trying to get back to the stage. Kirby can throw a bunch.

Kirby also has some fancy tricks he can do with nades that we can't. He can do a down B, with a nade in his hand and it'll explode without doing anything to Kirby. So if it's timed right, Snake gets hit with a down-b that explodes in his face. Also, if Snake grabs kirby out of this, he'll still get hit with an explosion, so port priority can be important for that. As long as Snake is 4th, he wont get hit away, but Kirby will.

I doubt you'll ever see this, but they can hit you with an up-b, and then a nade in their hand can explode at the end. And here's one I did by accident once when I was Snake Kirby. I had a nade in my hand, did an up-b and spiked with it. I was going to end up self-destructing with it cause I moved to far off the stage, but the nade exploded me out of it while Snake got spiked. This seems highly situational, but I'm throwing it out there.

He can throw us into nades with his throws too. Up-throw, if timed right, can slam Snake right into a nade. In fact, he can do this with any throw, depending on the placement of the grenade. B-throw when it's behind him, D-throw when it's right under him, and F-throw when it's in front. The downside for Kirby, is that he gets hit by the nade too, and he's far easier to kill than Snake is. The upside, is that it can put you in a perfect position for him. I once slammed him into a nade with up-throw, it exploded us both in the same direction, and I was in the perfect position to hit Snake with a b-air. Even if that doesn't happen, it still puts Snake in the air, where we don't want to be.

4TH PORT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE THROWS
Fight for the 4th slot. If Kirby has 4th and the nade explodes before the throw is finished, Kirby won't get any knockback, and Snake will still be flung into the air. If Snake has 4th, it's the other way around, and at lower percents, puts Kirby in the perfect spot to get hit. Usually with an up-tilt or n-air. Kirby is put right in front of Snake no matter which way Kirby throws from what I've noticed. However at higher percents, Kirby will be blown too far away to reach. Kirby can still throw Snake into nades, but it's less effective without a lower port. He pretty much HAS to time it so both of you are knocked back by the nade, since if it explodes too early, it won't help Kirby much. If it's timed so both of you are hit, it puts Snake in the air with Kirby (where Snake doesn't want to be) but otherwise Kirby just throws himself in the air and leaves Snake safely on the ground.

Snake should be fighting for 4th anyway, but this gives Kirby all the more reason to not let him have it.

It's probably worth mentioning that Kirby can jump-cancel throw grenades too. You know, that thing like a glide toss, only it's done by canceling a jump by throwing something instead of canceling a roll by throwing something. Kirby goes a decent distance and it's WAAAY better than his glide toss, which barely goes anywhere.


So there's my 2 cents on what Kirby can do if he takes your power. So don't let him do it.

This is good info.

 

[|RK|]

June 11, 2009 - Added Zajice's quote about Snake Kirby

 

[A1lion835]

I just realized you forgot something about DDD kirby: if D3's inhale times out, the opponent is automatically spit out instead of breaking out. This means you always get % on them, but it also means inhale breaks are gone.

 

[fromundaman]

I just realized you forgot something about DDD kirby: if D3's inhale times out, the opponent is automatically spit out instead of breaking out. This means you always get % on them, but it also means inhale breaks are gone.

Not true, they inhale break far above you though (like a little farther than where they would after our Swallow.).

No offense here at all, but the three you gave involved mindgames, which isn't reliable on paper. Your guide is good; I'm just trying to find a safer way to copy so that it can actually be used reliably in our matches and matchup discussions. And then you could edit these ways into your guide too! Cool?

OK, lower percentages covered. F-Throw is the best beginning... however... what about at higher percentages? Because should you lose your Copy Ability at a higher percent, how are you getting it back?

All right then. As long as you're not covering the same thing again, go for it!

And sure, I can get around to editing them in eventually.
Haven't read them yet, but have you put Dthrow>Inhale in there? It works wonders when they AD to the ground.

 

[|RK|]

June 12, 2009 - Added info about auto-star shot for Dedede Kirby. Credit for info goes to A1lion.
-Inhale Break far above you added. Credit to fromundaman.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... I don't see your section on safely getting swallows...

Also, didn't read the entire OP (That's a lot of info!), though I did skim through it, and I have one thing to add on grenade Kirby:

When you grenade drop then grab it again, if you pull out another grenade, you drop the one you picked up. This can be used to just drop grenades on your opponent and/or trick your opponent into thinking you are no longer carrying a grenade.

That being said, it you don't have the timing right, you might just blow yourself up with two grenades.

 

[|RK|]

Hmmm... I don't see your section on safely getting swallows...

Also, didn't read the entire OP (That's a lot of info!), though I did skim through it, and I have one thing to add on grenade Kirby:

When you grenade drop then grab it again, if you pull out another grenade, you drop the one you picked up. This can be used to just drop grenades on your opponent and/or trick your opponent into thinking you are no longer carrying a grenade.

That being said, it you don't have the timing right, you might just blow yourself up with two grenades.

I don't have enough info on higher percentages yet :/

And thank you, I'll quote that.