Copy Ability Tricks and Tactics

[choknater]

Hm, I see your point Percon. Good insight on each one

I still especially love the way Kirby is still able to use some of them because of his air mobility (Pika, Snake, Mario, Falco) but I can see why you'd disapprove of many of the other ones.

 

[|RK|]

Every power is worth taking. Think about it: Why would I have a "how to use" and then "how to use against (original holder)"? And Mario's fireballs are only worse because Mario is taller. Shorthops are the way to go!

EDIT: And I'm pretty sure G&W can't absorb close range attacks.

EDIT 2: That is, the pan.

 

[fromundaman]

Actually, here's another use in G&W's power:

By now G&W players generally don't expect us to take this power, and as such rarely ever key. Therefore, the first time you inhale him, take his power. Doesn't matter if you use it or not, it's just to make him think "Oh ****, he wants my power, I need to key next time!".

Of course, throughout the match, you're going to lose the power (It's actually really easy to lose, especially since the wind from his Uair can knock it out of you), and when you do, it's time for an inhale starshot. If they fell for it, they should give themselves quite a bit of lag to be punished (preferably by aerial hammer).

Yeah... Not really a use for the power itself, but a use for taking it occasionally.

EDIT: RK: G&W has the worst projectile in this game (except maybe our FC), and ours is worse in that it's absorbable! It is a bad power.

 

[momochuu]

Attempt.

Half of that stuff you said was really wrong. Olimar's pikmin tossing is better because he can actually short hop his, while you're stuck on the ground throwing Pikmin at a set distance. ICs have really good recovery, and one Ice Block isn't gonna stop it. Marth's sword is longer, and while MK's tornado is "slower", Kirby's has a lot less priority.

 

[choknater]

In fact, Kirby's tornado moves at the same speed, it just looks faster because the tornado looks smaller in proportion to the distance ^_^

(Nado is still a good move to absorb though, lmao. It's the ****ing tornado.)

 

[fromundaman]

Whoa, you can shoot jolts faster than Pika? I did not know this. Also, I thought both Kirby and Rob's lasers went nearly infinite distance... I'll check that out later, I guess.

yeah, you have to do an empty FH then keep hitting jump and B to get rising bolts and you'll pull out quite a few more than Pika does. I can dig out an old video where I do it if you want to actually see it.

For ROB, I'm sorry, I kind of mistyped that. I meant it has a much better range than the Gyro. The laser range is the same (only difference being you're closer to the ground so less room to angle it unless you jump).



Oh wow... I hadn't seen Gangsta Kirby's post...

No... just no...


I think I'm going to write a guide to inhale, because seriously, no one seems to give it enough credit. It's useful for more than just Kirbiciding...

 

[DFat2]

In fact, Kirby's tornado moves at the same speed, it just looks faster because the tornado looks smaller in proportion to the distance ^_^

(Nado is still a good move to absorb though, lmao. It's the ****ing tornado.)

I would Take Nado if it weren't for the fact that Inhale absorbs Shuttle Loop. It has to have started already but, it's still useful.

When I take it, I take it to recover better. Getting on the stage with Nado is too good.

 

[fromundaman]

I would Take Nado if it weren't for the fact that Inhale absorbs Shuttle Loop. It has to have started already but, it's still useful.

When I take it, I take it to recover better. Getting on the stage with Nado is too good.

Except just about every MK attack breaks it...

 

[DFat2]

Except just about every MK attack breaks it...

Meh, If it's not expected, it could get you in Safely. Kirby has moves that break the Tornado as well. Does that mean it's useless against Kirby?

 

[Percon]

Hm, I see your point Percon. Good insight on each one

I still especially love the way Kirby is still able to use some of them because of his air mobility (Pika, Snake, Mario, Falco) but I can see why you'd disapprove of many of the other ones.

Yeah, though I prefer fall speed to air mobility where projectiles are concerned, I can see merit off floats lasers/jolts and such.

(It's actually really easy to lose, especially since the wind from his Uair can knock it out of you)

Oh, wow. That's pretty weird. 0_0

Half of that stuff you said was really wrong. Olimar's pikmin tossing is better because he can actually short hop his, while you're stuck on the ground throwing Pikmin at a set distance. ICs have really good recovery, and one Ice Block isn't gonna stop it. Marth's sword is longer, and while MK's tornado is "slower", Kirby's has a lot less priority.

Thank you Kawaii. Gangsta's post bleeds with false info.

In fact, Kirby's tornado moves at the same speed, it just looks faster because the tornado looks smaller in proportion to the distance ^_^

(Nado is still a good move to absorb though, lmao. It's the ****ing tornado.)

Metas have 0 trouble with the tiny tornado.

And yeah, inhale is pretty useful as a general mixup and whatnot, plus the aforementioned Kirbycides/Starspikes

EDIT: Dfat... Kirby has like one or two moves that effectively override Tornado. Metaknight has many more (which can be initiated in the air, to boot)

 

[Uffe]

lucas/ness: really screws with their recovery options, they have to go lower putting them at a disadvantage consider pk thunderis easily messed up

False. If you know how to deal with Ness or Lucas using Ness or Lucas as far as returning goes, then Kirby with PK Flash or PK Freeze is nothing but useless. We can absorb in mid-air, you know? You're better off doing what you'd normally do to gimp Ness or Lucas instead of using their specials against them. And because there is no ground for either projectile to land on, the attack itself will eventually release itself and may possibly give health back to either Ness or Lucas. You can use it on yourself to make an edgeguard, but it doesn't mean they won't have their second jump which by the way makes it a whole lot easier to return.

As far as Inhale goes, a lot of attacks for Kirby are useless. Here are the ones I find useless against his opponents.

Mario:
Fireball can be Caped. It'll hit eventually, yes, but still.

Donkey Kong:
Giant Punch lacks range.

Wario:
Chomp leaves you open.

Zelda/Sheik:
Zelda's may have some use, but if you swallow Sheik, she can turn into Zelda and reflect the Needles.

Ganondorf:
Again, another attack that not only lacks range, but is very situational.

Pit:
Better learn Arrow Looping. Even if you do, you lack a Mirrior Shield.

King DeDeDe:
This is just totally useless unless you're trying to Kirbycide someone.

Fox:
Fox has a Reflector, something Kirby doesn't have.

Falco:
Not as useless, but not that great, either.

Wolf:
See Fox.

Captain Falcon:
See Ganondorf.

Jigglypuff:
Basically this is situational. And if your opponent has multiple jumps, then it makes the attack even more worthless.

Ness:
They weren't thinking when they made this one. They should have stuck with PK Fire. At least that made a difference.

Lucas:
See Ness.

So not all is lost, but most copy abilities aren't very useful for Kirby.

 

[DFat2]

EDIT: Dfat... Kirby has like one or two moves that effectively override Tornado. Metaknight has many more (which can be initiated in the air, to boot)

Guess that's a no then. lololololol

 

[fromundaman]

Dfat1, We have 3 moves that deal with MK's tornado: Inhale, Bair, and Fsmash. Inhale and Fsmash have startup lag, and Inhale and Bair need to hit from a certain angle.
MK, on the other hand, can hit us with anything except maybe Nair and Glide attack to break it (yeah, I think even jab breaks, not to mention even if we do hit him, he can hit us after about 2% with any aerial, including a sweetspotted Nair.

Yeah Percon, wind and water effects can knock powers out.


Usse, while you're right about the Ness/Lucas powers, I disagree with your list. For one, just because a character has a reflector doesn't mean they won't be hit (and arrow looping is easier for Kirby for some reason), and some powers have to be used differently. IE: Fireballs are used as gimping tool or for their hitstun.
Also, D3's is just a better version of your own inhale. Why wouldn't you use it?

 

[Asdioh]

You guys are underestimating so much stuff :]

Essentially every power has uses if you're smart. PK Thunder/Freeze are two of the worst because they can be absorbed, but even then, you could do fakeouts with them and make your opponent more predictable (they put up their Magnet to try to absorb it, you detonate the PK shortly after starting it, you just controlled their action.)

I like to take Warlock Punch against Ganondorfs on wifi, and spam Reverse Warlock Punch. You can control Kirby's direction SO MUCH with WP and Falcon Punch, it's not funny. I can seriously spam it, and it will eventually hit or break their shield. Probably wouldn't work as well offline though XD

Only take it for the lulz. You really can't do much with it from what I've seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1EgIUqX59s

I took his power. He was like "Oh, you can have that."

I lured him into a KO with it at :52.

Not useless. Even if he does absorb it, I don't care. G&W kills at ridiculously low percents anyway, you take what you can get. It gives you a way to control their actions.

I'm most likely going to play some G&Ws this Friday/Saturday, I'll see what I can do with it.

edit: my Kirby is so sexy in that video.

>_>

I wish my computer didn't lag so much when watching it

 

[A1lion835]

EDIT: Dfat... Kirby has like one or two moves that effectively override Tornado. Metaknight has many more (which can be initiated in the air, to boot)

I'd like to say right now that I've beaten out a whorenado with both my nair and bair (nair from top, bair from top or side). But that was once. >.>

So yea, you're right, but I just wanted to throw out that it's possible to use more aerials than bair.

Edit:

Also, D3's is just a better version of your own inhale. Why wouldn't you use it?

I'm being an ******* right now, but because kirby's inhale beats out D3's. However, that's only useful if it's the last stock for both of you and you both try to suicide >.>

 

[A1lion835]

Edit: sorry, double post.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

Half of that stuff you said was really wrong. Olimar's pikmin tossing is better because he can actually short hop his, while you're stuck on the ground throwing Pikmin at a set distance. ICs have really good recovery, and one Ice Block isn't gonna stop it. Marth's sword is longer, and while MK's tornado is "slower", Kirby's has a lot less priority.

ics have a terrible recovery if one is gimped well enough the other cant save him/her especially since their likely to get split if u gimp them with it enough

kirbys poke still has the same reach as marths even tho it LOOKS like marths is longer, kirby like with the falcon and warlock punch, slides farther forward than marth when he pokes

the end lag difference from mk and kirbys tornado may not be alot, but kirbys is slightly faster and can go slighty longer

kirby still has the upper hand with pikmen cuz his suply never runs out, oli has to reload them every 6ish shots wich makes up for the short hoping becuase he cant pick up pikmen in midair

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, but Kirby's version of D3's inhale also beats D3's inhale.

 

[momochuu]

You're still wrong. Squall hammer is one of the highest vertical moves UpBs in the game. That's not bad recovery. If an ICs player gets gimped with ice block, they should sell Brawl. Everything else is just...wrong. I'm not gonna try to explain it, lol.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

You're still wrong. Squall hammer is one of the highest vertical moves UpBs in the game. That's not bad recovery. If an ICs player gets gimped with ice block, they should sell Brawl. Everything else is just...wrong. I'm not gonna try to explain it, lol.

._. then dont, videos speak louder than text.....

im going to make a video guide for how to use every characters powers with kirby in ways that are effective... expect it in a week or two


make videos that prove me wrong...

 

[Asdioh]

Marth's Shield Breaker is definitely worth getting, if you know how and when to use it.

I know how to use it, just not always when XD

I'll always remember the time a Marth and I killed each other at the same time with fully charged Shield Breakers...it was pretty great. Wish I could have saved the replay...or I wish I didn't delete it if I did save it, I don't remember @_@

And I can only see Ice Block gimping Ice Climbers if Nana and Popo are a good distance apart and you hit Nana right before Popo uses Up B...it would be hard to do, and very situational.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

unlike the above poster, not many of u r thinking of the mindgame and meta-game potential copying someones powers has, one thing that matters to the mindgame if u cant use ur opponents power well make them THINK you need it wether u do or not, also rember u can drop a power instantly with a simple HIIIIIIIIIIIII

 

[DFat2]

unlike the above poster, not many of u r thinking of the mindgame and meta-game potential copying someones powers has, one thing that matters to the mindgame if u cant use ur opponents power well make them THINK you need it wether u do or not, also rember u can drop a power instantly with a simple HIIIIIIIIIIIII

Almost every power that is worth taking can be punished with a D-air.

And, your putting a neutral B-move as a Game Changing Tactic that will win you the ****ing Game. Plz stop it with the Mindgame talk. I'm doubtful of you even knowing what it means. Taking a B-move does not in any way change the match up in a way that you could win it in an otherwise loose able situation.

And, the above poster knows a thing or two about Kirby. I don't see why you question his capabilities.

And Btw, why use Ice block to gimp the climbers while a Dair Gimp's squal hammer recovery better?

 

[Asdioh]

And, the above poster knows a thing or two about Kirby. I don't see why you question his capabilities.

He was complimenting me ^____^

And even if certain Copies can be punished with Dair, that's where Starshot comes in handy. Starshot once or twice, punish their Dair if possible, and then Copy the third time. You dealt a bunch of damage, gained a power, and tricked them into not punishing your Copy.

It's really stupid that Copy can be punished like that in the first place -_-

 

[Percon]

I'd like to say right now that I've beaten out a whorenado with both my nair and bair (nair from top, bair from top or side). But that was once. >.>

So yea, you're right, but I just wanted to throw out that it's possible to use more aerials than bair.

Yeah, a couple of his moves CAN beat 'nado, but fsmash is the only one that works every time from the top of my head. So unfair.

By the way, this is some nice discussion we have going on here.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

And even if certain Copies can be punished with Dair, that's where Starshot comes in handy. Starshot once or twice, punish their Dair if possible, and then Copy the third time. You dealt a bunch of damage, gained a power, and tricked them into not punishing your Copy.

thanks for proveing my point ^_^

this is a mindgame Asdioh posted right here ._. i do know what they are.... and not many people punish the copy if u use it sparingly and like Asdioh says make them expect starshot

 

[|RK|]

Um, again, no power is useless... obviously in a 2v2 scenario or FFA, the usefulness changes, in case you didn't get what I meant in my post about "why I have two sections".

 

[DFat2]

Um, again, no power is useless... obviously in a 2v2 scenario or FFA, the usefulness changes, in case you didn't get what I meant in my post about "why I have two sections".

Yes, there are powers that are useless. Single's or Teams. There are Useless powers. You're just trying to make it look like you can give a use to every copied ability, but that's just plain stupid.

The odds are that, the person your fighting knows it's weak/strong points and knows how to effectively counter them. Plz, this discussion thread is good, but far from the original purpose.

Yeah, what he said...

How many inhales do you plan on getting? They'll probably expect the Inhale way before they think about expecting the star shot Boi.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

Yes, there are powers that are useless. Single's or Teams. There are Useless powers. You're just trying to make it look like you can give a use to every copied ability, but that's just plain stupid.

The odds are that, the person your fighting knows it's weak/strong points and knows how to effectively counter them. Plz, this discussion thread is good, but far from the original purpose.



How many inhales do you plan on getting? They'll probably expect the Inhale way before they think about expecting the star shot Boi.

i usually get 7ish in a 4 stock brawl also theres times wen inhale is unavoidable for most every character

 

[|RK|]

Name ONE useless power. A teammate can always help you by say, Sonic D-Throw to Falcon Punch, etc.

EDIT: I hope that didn't seem aggressive...

 

[Zori]

this thread it pretty cool i want to read more and i dont even main kirby :3

 

[|RK|]

Thank you!

 

[DFat2]

Name ONE useless power. A teammate can always help you by say, Sonic D-Throw to Falcon Punch, etc.

EDIT: I hope that didn't seem aggressive...

A Team Battle:

Player A is Captain Falcon; player B is Olimar; player C is Kirby; and player D is Sonic. Generally speaking, you will almost never team do a team attack combo on a player while his partner is alive. If you do, it's probably not worth mentioning.

Scenario:

Player B is dead. Player A falls into Kirby's inhale and you copy. Sonic uses D-throw and you Get the Falcon Punch in. Now, think about it. Why would you waste your time to copy and use Falcon Punch for anything else that inst for flashyness. It's really impractical, and the Match up between Captain Falcon and Kirby is like 65/35 or something. You could easily gimp him with D-air.

I call that a useless Ability in Team Battle.

A Single Battle:

Player A is Kirby and Player B is Captain Falcon.

Scenario:

Player A plays Player B normally, Gonzos into 45, Spaces B-airs and effectively Gimps to win the Match.

Or, lets say that Hypothetically, player A is a Scrub and Wastes his time in an already advantageous match and tries to get in a Falcon Punch. He get's punished, looses confidence and looses the match. (hypothetically speaking [there are no scrub Kirbies ]).
_______________________

Really, don't say that there aren't any useless abilities, please. Kirby has useless moves, let alone copy other moves from a character that can use them better than you/have no use at all. Chances are that in a situation where you can Falcon Punch the Opponent, you can Ground Hammer for a more effective and precise finish.

 

[A1lion835]

Dfat, you made an error.

If you ever play a captain falcon, you HAVE to take his power. It's just so ****ing awesome...

 

[DFat2]

Dfat, you made an error.

If you ever play a captain falcon, you HAVE to take his power. It's just so ****ing awesome...

It may be Awesome/Cool/FALCOUUUN PAAAWNCH/lololololol, but no where near practical.

 

[|RK|]

Nah, still don't think any ability is useless, some are just highly situational.

EDIT: And some times, the situation is so rare, you're better off with another power.

 

[A1lion835]

It may be Awesome/Cool/FALCOUUUN PAAAWNCH/lololololol, but no where near practical.

Kirby's voice doing it is just so awesome...

not to mention it gives you hovering skillz!

 

[momochuu]

Doing things for giggles and laughs won't really help much in a real match...

 

[DFat2]

Nah, still don't think any ability is useless, some are just highly situational.

EDIT: And some times, the situation is so rare, you're better off with another power.

Some thing that is useful in only a certain type of situation = useless. When that situation comes, you'll probably miss it seeing that it's so rare, you forget.

Doing things for giggles and laughs won't really help much in a real match...

Da Bunny H@z Sp0k3n

 

[Asdioh]

I got a 0-death combo on Falcon the other day. It was either 1. inescapable or 2. very nearly inescapable because it was done on Port Town Aero Dive (which, yes, is a legal counterpick in some places.)

(Inhale) and then Fthrow, uair, reverse utilt, Fair, Falcon Punch that hit him as he tried to get back onto the stage with Falcon Dive.

It was extremely sexy.

Spoiler

It was on wifi. And a friendly. Though he wasn't sandbagging (at least not much :D)

But still, the point is, once he was in that position, the Falcon Punch was nearly unavoidable.

Against Captain Falcon, you should be winning whether you take his power or not >_>
Also, Falcon Punch is useful sometimes against Falcon, since he has a number of laggy moves that can be punished if you predict.

And Warlock Punch has incredible aerial DI when you reverse it, like I said before. Plus it has good range, and ridiculous power...definitely has some uses if you know what you're doing