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Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

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Sensai

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Guys, you must realize that Nintendo is not cognizant of the tiers when they create the game. They honestly believe (somehow) that the game is near balanced.

It's impossible to predict tiers until you know the movesets of characters and the exploits/glitches that can be performed in-game.

Except Metaknight. Who looks to be broken as all ****.
 

Devastlian

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There's still a lot of Meta Knight we haven't seen. We haven't seen any moves of his with very high knockback, we haven't seen if he has a meteor smashing move or not, nor him getting attacked, grabbing, one could very well be able to DI out of his moves (the people playing in the trailer could be not DIing on purpose), he might not have any ranged attacks (his sword isn't exactly very long), and we haven't seen any sort of vertical recovery move besides his aerial jumps. They could just be making him look better than he might be since he was featured in a whole section dedicated to him and they wanted to advertise the new characters and downplay the veteran fighters. And stuff. ;)

It'd be kinda funny if the characters appeared really unbalanced at first glance and then, after we discover some exploits and "glitches" and test out the characters with the stuff we used in SSBM, they become almost perfectly balanced.
 

Fawriel

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..what Devastlian said.

I have no idea why everyone is all over Metaknight like that. Unless Sakurai hasn't learned anything since Sheik, he apparently won't have any moves with very high knockback, and his multi-slice attacks leave him open like hell. I predict middle tier.
 

Zinfandel

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I predict nothing considering I haven't seen nearly enough.

Perhaps he is a technical, evasive type, using the cape to close on campers, zoom in with a slash storm and then fly away to escape harm.
 

Legolastom

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Hey because of metaknights height you think that he will be a bit annoying to hit with ranged weapons? (i hate pichu my arrows just go over his/her head and my bombs)
 

LukeFonFabre

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Looks like there are others that don't think Meta Knight is guaranteed top tier. That's a relief.

While what we've seen of Meta Knight is quite impressive, I find it odd that people jump to the conclusion he's already broken. His moves seem to revolve around combos rather than knock back, and depending how his sword combo's work, they may leave him incredibly open to attack. True he does seem to glide and have multiple jumps, but part of me feels that this is at the cost of a recovery ^B move (unless the glide is the result of that), not to mention he's probably as easy to knock away as the other puff balls. Granted, there's still a lot left to see of Meta knight and he may prove to be as broken as people expect, but I personally don't think we've seen enough of him to conclude that, and what we have seen of him doesn't really suggest that.

I think I've said this before, but at the moment I'm still more impressed with Pit than I am with Meta Knight (which is why I'm glad that Sakurai decided to reveal more about him first).

I find it odd though that we've seen little of ZS Samus (and normal Samus for that matter) and Snake in the blogs. Granted, Snake probably isn't there because he's meant to be an unlockable, but I would've ZS Samus would've made an appearance by now.
 

Rhyme

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Yeah, I was thinking something like that too Devastlian. MK's ariel attacks at least have stunning capability, so we know he won't be Roy, but as we found out with Marth, a character doesn't need killing ariel moves to be good. That being said, I also can't even see Metaknight as High tier, I'd say he'll wind up being Middle. If you think about it, he probably will have only slightly overpowered smashes, but all the power in this known universes, coupled with that of several others, can't make up for a lack of range. Not to mention, even at low percents like in the trailer, his ariels had too much knockback to combo into with a smash of some sort, so unless his grabs are uber week, MK isn't going anywhere fast. Remember Y. Link from melee?...or perhaps Pichu?...who had decent comboability but few options for closing out the combo with a killing move. If MK's game relies on a lucky single strike, that will hurt him. His Dsmash could have the knockback of Pichu's Fsmash, but if he can't hit you with it than that won't make the least bit of difference. Also, a Dsmash like Fox's or Mario's will destroy him if he lacks vertical recovery. Once you are hit out of the multi-jump midair jump MK has, you will be forced to upB recover, which looks like Peach's float but without the damage. Go look at the trailer, right before Pit drops in, if you don't believe me. MK is gliding across the screen, and he does the same when recovering to that breakable-platform stage, after a small flap skyward. A nerfed upB from Peach won't work as a recovery, so one smasher thinks.

I personally see Mario as being High tier, if not top tier, but not god tier. His attacks, from what we've seen, look like they have very workable knockback, so assuming Mario's grabgame doesn't get nerfed, he'll come back stronger than in Melee. Kirby will probably wind up being the Space Animal Slayer, destroying all fastfallers with cheap juggling Utilts/grabs, but doing very badly against floaty characters. Nintendo most likely gave Kirby better knockback on his moves, all except the spike. Although, if we can still meteor cancel, maybe giving Kirby his godly Smash64 spike wouldn't be so overwhelming? As for Zamus, I see her as being fairly low tier. Her tilts from the trailer didn't stun very well, and while we havn't seen the total effectiveness of her gun/whip, since we all agree that Shiek would be nerfed, and we all seem to agree that Zamus will be a luigified Shiek, isn't it safe to assume that Zamus would take Shiek's natural place in low tier? Her jumps also look to be about the same ratio of Luigi's from Smash64, large first jump and even larger midair jump, and no falling speed. Slow falling speed really kills a character's ariel game if they can't maintain that ariel presence, so unless Zamus has the ground game of ICies, she won't do well.

Everyone else I'll just leave out of this for now, I've got no strong argument propared either direction at this time. No tier list from me, not until we've got a few more characters. The only way we make a tier list is by comparing the character to all other character's metagame and in-game strategies, character-specific advantages and whatnot. With only eleven characters it's neigh impossible to say how they might be countered.

Later<
 

Legolastom

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He is most probably saving the more interesting things till later on (Like metaknight,snake and zamus).
 

Legolastom

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Yhea but they seem to be adding a how to play section to most items they might add a how to play to each character to by the looks of it.
 

X-x-Dyce-x-X

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Not impressed with today's update.

I mean it's new and pretty cool. But it isn't "WOW"ing me nor was it even a good amount of information like the Mario and Link update or the Final Smash update (which had both a "WOW" factor and a lot of info.

I think I figured out the pattern.
Decent news, Decent news, BIG NEWS, Disappointing news..., Decent news.
 

PIMPSLAP

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- Predicted Tier List-

Top: Meta Knight*, Fox
High: Meta Knight*, Zamus
Middle: Snake*, Pit, Mario, Pikachu, Kirby
Low: Snake*, Wario, Link
Bottom: ?
i think top fox falco sheik marth
high samus snake
don't now about the rest

(assuming that falco sheik and marth return)
also i don't think the high tiers will be downgraded but the low tiers will be upgraded to equal the field to a equall playing field off course some things will still suck ... (on a side note it would be awesome if mario's various costumes was dr. mario)
 

Legolastom

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i think top fox falco sheik marth
high samus snake
don't now about the rest

(assuming that falco sheik and marth return)
also i don't think the high tiers will be downgraded but the low tiers will be upgraded to equal the field to a equall playing field off course some things will still suck ... (on a side note it would be awesome if mario's various costumes was dr. mario)
That would be awesome and i doubt sheik or marth are returning (But are getting replaced).
 

PIMPSLAP

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iono i heard the fire emblem charecter base would extend... also i'm almost possitive zelda won't get cut due to popularity:) i personnally think she zamus will play like sheik fast grapple ***** what not (combo hitter:))
 

Legolastom

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Lol Yoshi... so annoying and im not good with those fast characters im much better with link and Mario like characters!
 

Legolastom

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Yoshi is almost certainly in brawl anyways seeing as we have one of his stages.

He was obviously gonna be in it anyway.
 

Evil E.

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umm im not sure marth is a definent becasue he really wasnt eve suppose to be in brawl cuz he is not a original character and he was only famous in japan at the time..
 

X-x-Dyce-x-X

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What the fvck are you talking about? Marth is an original character 100%. Roy is the clone. You can't get Roy without Marth, therefore Marth is the first and original one. Roy's the one that isn't coming back. Plus Marth is more popular.

Look at the Fire Emblem stages. The castle wall level and the throne room levels are both from FE3, the second game Marth starred in.
 

PIMPSLAP

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i agree with dyce on these and the cast of fire will expand i think also if i lived near your area Depster i would mm you in a hartbeat sheik against yoshi hell yes:) sheik will return because from various sites i been to the he/she was not mentioned i'n being droped iono lol but marth has a better chance then roy just based on popularity :)
 

PIMPSLAP

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lol the hate for the grab hoe lol if shes back awesome if not i will still have melee lol so it won't be that bad. There is all samus...
 

Legolastom

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I really want ike to make it into brawl (to replace marth) and Dark knight seeing as he is kinda like an anti-hero (To become a heavy version of roy).
 

Stryks

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I want black knight in too, perfect enemy for marth, but im hoping he wouldnt be a heavy marth as u say, since his moves arent fire-based, he should have powerful moves like nightmares from SC, after all he is too using a 2 handed sword on one hand (uber strenght XD)
 

RWB

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- Predicted Tier List-


High: Pit, Mario, Zamus
Middle: Link, Snake, Pikachu, Kirby, Wario
Low: Fox, Meta Knight
Bottom: --
 

Deathcarter

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- Predicted Tier List-


High: Pit, Mario, Zamus
Middle: Link, Snake, Pikachu, Kirby, Wario
Low: Fox, Meta Knight
Bottom: --
You put metaknight BELOW Kirby!?!? I doubt Kirby will reclaim his SSB glory.
 

Legolastom

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I want black knight in too, perfect enemy for marth, but im hoping he wouldnt be a heavy marth as u say, since his moves arent fire-based, he should have powerful moves like nightmares from SC, after all he is too using a 2 handed sword on one hand (uber strenght XD)
Yhea but maybe dark knight could be an minion of master hand or something and he is the main villian in the (200 hour : p) story mode... or something
 

Sensai

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Sensai said:
Guys, you must realize that Nintendo is not cognizant of the tiers when they create the game. They honestly believe (somehow) that the game is near balanced.

It's impossible to predict tiers until you know the movesets of characters and the exploits/glitches that can be performed in-game.
Man. This guy sounds like a genius!
 
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