Data COMPLETE: Marth Hitboxes and Frame Data

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,023
Location
Southampton, UK
#1
Part of the on-going Stratocaster's Hitbox Project
Credits:
Frame data: SuperDoodleMan
Image compiling: Stratocaster
Image Editing + Uploading: X1-12

All gifs are at 1/3 game speed, all aerials are while falling, and therefore the hitboxes stretch up. If you want to see a still image of any frame, post in this thread and I'll upload it for you.

Jab

Total: 27
Hit: 4-7
Window of the second slash: 3-27
Second slash starts: 20
IASA: 26

Jab 2

Total: 28
Hit: 5-9
IASA: 27

F-Tilt

Total: 35
Hit: 7-10

D-Tilt

Total: 49
Hit: 7-9
IASA: 20

U-Tilt

Total: 39
Hit: 6-12
IASA: 32

Dash Attack

Total: 49
Hit: 12-15
IASA: 40

F-Smash

Total: 49
Hit: 10-13
Charge frame: 3
IASA: 48

Up-Smash

Total: 54
Hit: 13-16
Charge frame: 7
IASA: 46

D-Smash

Total: 64
Hit: 5-7, 20-22
Charge frame: 3
IASA: 62

N-air

Total: 49
Hit: 6-7, 15-21
Auto cancel: <5 25>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

Up-Air

Total: 45
Hit: 5-8
Auto cancel: <4 27>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

B-air

Total: 39
Hit: 7-11
IASA: 35
Auto cancel: 32>
Landlag: 24
Lcanceled: 12

D-air

Total: 59
Hit: 6-9
Auto cancel: <5 48>
Landlag: 32
Lcanceled: 16

F-air

Total: 33
Hit: 4-7
IASA: 30
Auto cancel: 27>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

Grab

Total: 30
Grab: 7-8

Dash Grab

Total: 40
Grab: 10-11

Counter

Total: 59
Counters: 5-29

--when it counters--
Total: 46
Hit: 14-20 (or 1 frame later for real
strong moves)
Invincible 1-16

Sword Dance (1, Side)

Total: 29
Hit: 6-8
Window for attack 2: 9-26

Sword Dance (2, Neutral/Side/Down)

Total: 40
Hit: 14-16
Window for attack 3: 17-33

Sword Dance (2, Up)

Total: 40
Hit: 12-15
Window for attack 3: 17-32

Sword Dance (3, Side/Neutral)

Total: 46
Hit: 11-14
Window for attack 4: 16-37

Sword Dance (3, Up)

Total: 46
Hit: 13-17
Window for attack 4: 18-38

Sword Dance (3, Down)

Total: 46
Hit: 15-18
Window for attack 4: 19-35

Sword Dance (4, Side/Neutral)

Total: 50
Hit: 23-26

Sword Dance (4, Up)

Total: 50
Hit: 20-25

Sword Dance (4, Down)

Total: 60
Hit: 13-15, 19-21, 25-27, 31-33,
37-38

Shield Breaker

Time to get to charging: 11 frames
Hit (from release of B): 5-10
Max charge time: 121 frames

Dolphin Slash

Total: 39
Hit: 5-10
Invulnerable: 5
Landfallspeciallag: 34

Air Dodge

Invulnerable 4-29 out of 49

Spot-Dodge

invulnerable 2-18 out of 27

Roll Forward

invulnerable 4-19 out of 35

Roll Back

invulnerable 4-23 out of 35
2nd longest roll (thx M2K)

Jump: airborne on frame 5

Air time: 59
Earliest FF: 31
FF air time: 45

SH air time: 38
Earliest FF: 20
SH FF air time: 26

2nd jump earliest FF: 26

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright thats all for now, tell me what other moves you would like to see (techs, techrolls, missed techs, get-up attacks, etc) as well as what is good and what should be better about this (gif speed, other stuff...)

all of gifs are free for anyone to use as well as the images (to be uploaded and posted here soon)

part of a series for every character hopefully - Stratocaster's Hitbox Project
 
Last edited:

_wzrd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
438
Location
Waikoloa, Hawaii
#2
Very cool and informative..Marth's hitboxes are pretty straightforward, but I already see a couple things I could mess around with in here cause of the odd hit/hurtboxes
 

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
#3
could you hit marth out of his counter? small parts of his hurtbox seem to stuck out of the blue bubble

i support this project btw, i learned a lot about my mains by looking at their hitboxes
 

_wzrd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
438
Location
Waikoloa, Hawaii
#5
could you hit marth out of his counter? small parts of his hurtbox seem to stuck out of the blue bubble

i support this project btw, i learned a lot about my mains by looking at their hitboxes
I seem to remember seeing m2k counter a falco fsmash and the counter going off but m2k getting hit and the falco not... I could be wrong though, and I don't remember who he was fighting...I just know it was on the left side of yoshis LOL.

From the looks of it, it is slightly possible, but highly improbable cause most hit boxes (even well spaced) will overlap with the hitbox for the counter. Itd be better to just wait back and grab the marth who is counter happy...

Very nice. Is there any way you can make these even slower?
I'd like that too!
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,023
Location
Southampton, UK
#9
Very nice. Is there any way you can make these even slower?
I'd like that too!
We are thinking about it, If we did make the .gifs slower we would have to start again though, and make each animation again but with a different delay. If anyone knows how to make them run slower without doing this would be a big help.

If there is one specific move you want slower then I can do that for you, but with 23 more characters to go, I can't go starting the whole thing again. I can also put up frames of specific moves, so you can ask for a picture with the furthest extending box on his D-tilt I'll find it and post it for you.

I seem to remember seeing m2k counter a falco fsmash and the counter going off but m2k getting hit and the falco not... I could be wrong though, and I don't remember who he was fighting...I just know it was on the left side of yoshis LOL.
If you are right inside counter when it triggers it the hit goes past you and whiffs, for example, try countering a jiggs' rest. The rest hits your (but you are invincible) and the counter misses, so the jiggs stays asleep

do you have reverse dolphin slash?
I believe its the same as the regular dolphin slash, as you are required to turn around before the hitbox comes out anyway. I will ask about it, and if its different upload it over the next couple of days, also when I will upload his second jab which was missed
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
10,261
Location
England, South London
#13
Marth's dash grab range behind him is utter bullcrap!!!

Also I never knew marth actually spins around during his Nair lol, I always thought he just did two slashes even though I know the hitbox went slightly behind...

Good stuff anyway.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,024
Location
Orlando Florida
#14
The rest hits your (but you are invincible) and the counter misses, so the jiggs stays asleep
That's because Jigg's is invincible, not because of the counter missing <_<. Your statement better applies to a Fox firefoxing under you when you're teetering over the ledge. In that position your counter will miss because Fox is behind where the slash actually hits even though he's triggered the counter.


I believe its the same as the regular dolphin slash, as you are required to turn around before the hitbox comes out anyway. I will ask about it, and if its different upload it over the next couple of days, also when I will upload his second jab which was missed
It's actually VERY different from normal dolphin slash. Most important is that the initial hitbox (the strong one that you want to hit with) is issolated at the front while most of (if not all) the others happen after Marth turns around.

Marth's dash grab range behind him is utter bullcrap!!!
Every character's dash grab range is like that.
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,023
Location
Southampton, UK
#17
Well all the images for this project are being compiled using Dolphin emulator with built in AR. I believe G&W is done so he will be edited + uploaded soonish. I don't know of anywhere else that include G&W's hitboxes I'm afraid so you'll just have to wait a while. I'm currently working on Roy, but I'll request to do G&W afterwards.

EDIT: G&W is not completed, I think the images were corrected incorrectly so if you wanted to help out gathering his data check out this thread Ignore that it says G&W is done. And if you do want to do it post in that thread and I can send you the stuff in order to do it
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,024
Location
Orlando Florida
#18
I'll ask about the reverse dolphin slash and the counter, please bear in mind that we are tying to do the whole cast in this project



Some aren't and the ones that are its not to the same extent
It was an exaggeration.

Wanna take a look at Falcon's or Sheik's dash grabs? Or Link's/Young Link's?

Not to mention that even though Marth's dash grab is still huge, it's not very disjointed anyway so it's not a big deal (although that low grabbox is what lets him grab a crouching Jiggs :p)


Anyway, reverse up B and counter are important.
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,406
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
#23
The most useful thing about this I find is showing how much bigger Marth's hitboxes are than his sword (except for usmash). His range is even bigger than you think lol. His head even has some huge hitboxes (bair, fair) lol. I wish there were slower gifs to show it better though...:/

Look at the bottom of fair for example. Thats a falling fair (hitbox stretched up), and there is still a huge hitbox under and past the sword. Marths soooo goood lolz.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
#26
Thanks. This makes me want to ask another question concerning auto-canceled nairs. The data is as follows:

Total: 49
Hit: 6-7, 15-21
Auto cancel: <5 25>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

People keep saying that auto-canceled nairs are so good or whatever. But a perfect auto-cancel nair will end on frame 29 (land on frame 25 + 4 frames normal jump landing lag = 29). However, a perfect l-canceled nair that includes the entirety of the second hitbox up until frame 21 will also end on frame 29 (land on frame 22 + 7 frames l-cancel landing lag = 29). Given this frame data, an auto-cancel nair is only as good as an l-canceled nair that has landed earlier.

BUT, you don't need the entirety of the second hitbox frames to get the actual hit out, do you? So you can be slightly faster than an auto-cancel nair with an l-cancel nair if you fall earlier.

In the end, I guess the difference is that the l-canceled nair (that's as fast as the auto-cancel nair) will be much lower to the ground than the auto-cancel nair, which will hit higher at almost the same speed.

Dunno, I always questioned how much better auto-canceled nairs were compared to just regular l-canceled nairs. To auto-cancel you have to wait a little longer before you land, but would that wait time really made up for by only 3 frames less lag upon landing? The frame data helps answer this question I guess.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,134
#29
Man Marth is such a beastly prince. Shield Breaker has a hitbox on his firm ***. :012:

At some point it might be nice to add the get-up attacks too. The ledge ones especially (since they supposedly suck). Random quenching of thirsts for knowledge right? *shrug*

Thank you X1-12 for being a hero. An Altean hero. :048:
 

Signia

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
1,157
#32
One of the best uses of frame data in other FGs is that it helps you understand what beats what after your opponent blocks your attack. However, this "frame data" doesn't list the frames of hitstun or blockstun for each attack. Without these, it's impossible to determine who has frame advantage in any given situation.

All the startup and active frames tell us is how fast attacks are or how long they last. This is useful in an "even" situation (like after a clash maybe?) but when moves don't start the same time (i.e. when frame advantage is NOT even, which is almost all the time) this information is useless until we determine just how uneven the situation is.

In order to illustrate my point, consider the situation when Samus's utilt hitbox hits your full shield near the end of its animation. Will her jab beat your shield grab? Sure, jab is faster than the grab but the blockstun and the attack animation makes it so attacks will start at different times. Does the blockstun end sooner than the attack animation or vice versa? How much sooner? Unless you know, you're just guessing what the best course of action is, with only past experiences to go by.

I understand that the stale moves and shield hardness can affect hitstun and blockstun, and each move has many different hitboxes but a ballpark range for each would be very useful in determining who has the advantage in a given situation.

Idk about you guys, but I'm sick of trying to just "feel" when it's safe to shieldgrab, attack someone's shield, or wavedash out of shield. Not knowing what beats what makes me think I still don't know how to play the game yet. Like not knowing that paper beats rock.
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,563
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
#34
Thanks. This makes me want to ask another question concerning auto-canceled nairs. The data is as follows:

Total: 49
Hit: 6-7, 15-21
Auto cancel: <5 25>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

People keep saying that auto-canceled nairs are so good or whatever. But a perfect auto-cancel nair will end on frame 29 (land on frame 25 + 4 frames normal jump landing lag = 29). However, a perfect l-canceled nair that includes the entirety of the second hitbox up until frame 21 will also end on frame 29 (land on frame 22 + 7 frames l-cancel landing lag = 29). Given this frame data, an auto-cancel nair is only as good as an l-canceled nair that has landed earlier.

BUT, you don't need the entirety of the second hitbox frames to get the actual hit out, do you? So you can be slightly faster than an auto-cancel nair with an l-cancel nair if you fall earlier.

In the end, I guess the difference is that the l-canceled nair (that's as fast as the auto-cancel nair) will be much lower to the ground than the auto-cancel nair, which will hit higher at almost the same speed.

Dunno, I always questioned how much better auto-canceled nairs were compared to just regular l-canceled nairs. To auto-cancel you have to wait a little longer before you land, but would that wait time really made up for by only 3 frames less lag upon landing? The frame data helps answer this question I guess.
You can get the hitbox out earlier, it's safer upon landing (3 frames less is significant, yes), and also importantly you have more control of your aerial spacing while doing the move autocanceled. (For example, moving forward slightly on someone's shield and drifting back before you land, baiting a shieldgrab or something.) It's not strictly better, but those are a lot of upsides.
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,161
Location
Vienna, Austria
#35
I request aerial Shieldbreaker. I wonder if the hitbox really goes as much farther downwards as the normal animation suggests.
 

Signia

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
1,157
#37
U have to love marth's hitboxes.
Not really, they don't last very long, and the last bubble for the tipper is small.

Takes serious precision to get the hits you want.

Could you guys list the unstaled damage done by each of the moves? Damage correlates to hitstun, and with that and Strongbad's hitstun calculator we can actually get somewhere.
 

toastbread

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
21
Location
Mason, Ohio
#40
Hey this is like my first post, so ok I was wondering if theres any guide/ any person who knows how the knock back for Marth's forward air work. Like which part sets up for Ken combo, juggling etc.
 
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