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Data COMPLETE: Marth Hitboxes and Frame Data

Discussion in 'Marth' started by X1-12, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. X1-12

    X1-12
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    Smash Champion

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    Part of the on-going Stratocaster's Hitbox Project
    Credits:
    Frame data: SuperDoodleMan
    Image compiling: Stratocaster
    Image Editing + Uploading: X1-12

    All gifs are at 1/3 game speed, all aerials are while falling, and therefore the hitboxes stretch up. If you want to see a still image of any frame, post in this thread and I'll upload it for you.

    Jab
    [​IMG]
    Total: 27
    Hit: 4-7
    Window of the second slash: 3-27
    Second slash starts: 20
    IASA: 26

    Jab 2
    [​IMG]
    Total: 28
    Hit: 5-9
    IASA: 27

    F-Tilt
    [​IMG]
    Total: 35
    Hit: 7-10

    D-Tilt
    [​IMG]
    Total: 49
    Hit: 7-9
    IASA: 20

    U-Tilt
    [​IMG]
    Total: 39
    Hit: 6-12
    IASA: 32

    Dash Attack
    [​IMG]
    Total: 49
    Hit: 12-15
    IASA: 40

    F-Smash
    [​IMG]
    Total: 49
    Hit: 10-13
    Charge frame: 3
    IASA: 48

    Up-Smash
    [​IMG]
    Total: 54
    Hit: 13-16
    Charge frame: 7
    IASA: 46

    D-Smash
    [​IMG]
    Total: 64
    Hit: 5-7, 20-22
    Charge frame: 3
    IASA: 62

    N-air
    [​IMG]
    Total: 49
    Hit: 6-7, 15-21
    Auto cancel: <5 25>
    Landlag: 15
    Lcanceled: 7

    Up-Air
    [​IMG]
    Total: 45
    Hit: 5-8
    Auto cancel: <4 27>
    Landlag: 15
    Lcanceled: 7

    B-air
    [​IMG]
    Total: 39
    Hit: 7-11
    IASA: 35
    Auto cancel: 32>
    Landlag: 24
    Lcanceled: 12

    D-air
    [​IMG]
    Total: 59
    Hit: 6-9
    Auto cancel: <5 48>
    Landlag: 32
    Lcanceled: 16

    F-air
    [​IMG]
    Total: 33
    Hit: 4-7
    IASA: 30
    Auto cancel: 27>
    Landlag: 15
    Lcanceled: 7

    Grab
    [​IMG]
    Total: 30
    Grab: 7-8

    Dash Grab
    [​IMG]
    Total: 40
    Grab: 10-11

    Counter

    Total: 59
    Counters: 5-29
    [​IMG]
    --when it counters--
    Total: 46
    Hit: 14-20 (or 1 frame later for real
    strong moves)
    Invincible 1-16

    Sword Dance (1, Side)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 29
    Hit: 6-8
    Window for attack 2: 9-26

    Sword Dance (2, Neutral/Side/Down)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 40
    Hit: 14-16
    Window for attack 3: 17-33

    Sword Dance (2, Up)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 40
    Hit: 12-15
    Window for attack 3: 17-32

    Sword Dance (3, Side/Neutral)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 46
    Hit: 11-14
    Window for attack 4: 16-37

    Sword Dance (3, Up)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 46
    Hit: 13-17
    Window for attack 4: 18-38

    Sword Dance (3, Down)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 46
    Hit: 15-18
    Window for attack 4: 19-35

    Sword Dance (4, Side/Neutral)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 50
    Hit: 23-26

    Sword Dance (4, Up)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 50
    Hit: 20-25

    Sword Dance (4, Down)
    [​IMG]
    Total: 60
    Hit: 13-15, 19-21, 25-27, 31-33,
    37-38

    Shield Breaker
    [​IMG]
    Time to get to charging: 11 frames
    Hit (from release of B): 5-10
    Max charge time: 121 frames

    Dolphin Slash
    [​IMG]
    Total: 39
    Hit: 5-10
    Invulnerable: 5
    Landfallspeciallag: 34

    Air Dodge
    [​IMG]
    Invulnerable 4-29 out of 49

    Spot-Dodge
    [​IMG]
    invulnerable 2-18 out of 27

    Roll Forward
    [​IMG]
    invulnerable 4-19 out of 35

    Roll Back
    [​IMG]
    invulnerable 4-23 out of 35
    2nd longest roll (thx M2K)

    Jump: airborne on frame 5

    Air time: 59
    Earliest FF: 31
    FF air time: 45

    SH air time: 38
    Earliest FF: 20
    SH FF air time: 26

    2nd jump earliest FF: 26

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Alright thats all for now, tell me what other moves you would like to see (techs, techrolls, missed techs, get-up attacks, etc) as well as what is good and what should be better about this (gif speed, other stuff...)

    all of gifs are free for anyone to use as well as the images (to be uploaded and posted here soon)

    part of a series for every character hopefully - Stratocaster's Hitbox Project
     
    #1 X1-12, Aug 29, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  2. _wzrd

    _wzrd
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    Very cool and informative..Marth's hitboxes are pretty straightforward, but I already see a couple things I could mess around with in here cause of the odd hit/hurtboxes
     
  3. john!

    john!
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    could you hit marth out of his counter? small parts of his hurtbox seem to stuck out of the blue bubble

    i support this project btw, i learned a lot about my mains by looking at their hitboxes
     
  4. JesiahTEG

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    Very nice. Is there any way you can make these even slower?
     
  5. _wzrd

    _wzrd
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    I seem to remember seeing m2k counter a falco fsmash and the counter going off but m2k getting hit and the falco not... I could be wrong though, and I don't remember who he was fighting...I just know it was on the left side of yoshis LOL.

    From the looks of it, it is slightly possible, but highly improbable cause most hit boxes (even well spaced) will overlap with the hitbox for the counter. Itd be better to just wait back and grab the marth who is counter happy...

    I'd like that too!
     
  6. TheCrimsonBlur

    TheCrimsonBlur
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    Very, very useful. Great work!

    Sticky this ASAP.
     
  7. Cosmo!

    Cosmo!
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    nerf zelda's dsmash

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    yea it happens when u try to edgeguard fox's upB, ur foot gets burnt.
     
  8. L/A/W

    L/A/W
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    do you have reverse dolphin slash?
     
  9. X1-12

    X1-12
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    We are thinking about it, If we did make the .gifs slower we would have to start again though, and make each animation again but with a different delay. If anyone knows how to make them run slower without doing this would be a big help.

    If there is one specific move you want slower then I can do that for you, but with 23 more characters to go, I can't go starting the whole thing again. I can also put up frames of specific moves, so you can ask for a picture with the furthest extending box on his D-tilt I'll find it and post it for you.

    If you are right inside counter when it triggers it the hit goes past you and whiffs, for example, try countering a jiggs' rest. The rest hits your (but you are invincible) and the counter misses, so the jiggs stays asleep

    I believe its the same as the regular dolphin slash, as you are required to turn around before the hitbox comes out anyway. I will ask about it, and if its different upload it over the next couple of days, also when I will upload his second jab which was missed
     
  10. X1-12

    X1-12
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    Thanks for the support guys!
     
  11. Elyssa Xey Hexen

    Elyssa Xey Hexen
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    Broken!

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    Too bad this hadn't been around sooner. You have my support, good work!
     
  12. Emblem Lord

    Emblem Lord
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    The Legendary Lord

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    Well done.
     
  13. Professor Pro

    Professor Pro
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    Marth's dash grab range behind him is utter bullcrap!!!

    Also I never knew marth actually spins around during his Nair lol, I always thought he just did two slashes even though I know the hitbox went slightly behind...

    Good stuff anyway.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic
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    That's because Jigg's is invincible, not because of the counter missing <_<. Your statement better applies to a Fox firefoxing under you when you're teetering over the ledge. In that position your counter will miss because Fox is behind where the slash actually hits even though he's triggered the counter.


    It's actually VERY different from normal dolphin slash. Most important is that the initial hitbox (the strong one that you want to hit with) is issolated at the front while most of (if not all) the others happen after Marth turns around.

    Every character's dash grab range is like that.
     
  15. X1-12

    X1-12
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    I'll ask about the reverse dolphin slash and the counter, please bear in mind that we are tying to do the whole cast in this project

    Some aren't and the ones that are its not to the same extent

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. john!

    john!
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    the whole cast? i have been looking for g&w's hitboxes for a while... some of them are pretty crazy. seanson's files didn't include him. do you know where i could find those?
     
  17. X1-12

    X1-12
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    Well all the images for this project are being compiled using Dolphin emulator with built in AR. I believe G&W is done so he will be edited + uploaded soonish. I don't know of anywhere else that include G&W's hitboxes I'm afraid so you'll just have to wait a while. I'm currently working on Roy, but I'll request to do G&W afterwards.

    EDIT: G&W is not completed, I think the images were corrected incorrectly so if you wanted to help out gathering his data check out this thread Ignore that it says G&W is done. And if you do want to do it post in that thread and I can send you the stuff in order to do it
     
  18. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic
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    It was an exaggeration.

    Wanna take a look at Falcon's or Sheik's dash grabs? Or Link's/Young Link's?

    Not to mention that even though Marth's dash grab is still huge, it's not very disjointed anyway so it's not a big deal (although that low grabbox is what lets him grab a crouching Jiggs :p)


    Anyway, reverse up B and counter are important.
     
  19. painlord k11

    painlord k11
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    I found it neat how roll back has more invincibilty frames then roll forward legit info k thx!!! =D
     
  20. X1-12

    X1-12
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    Updated with his second Jab
     
  21. *P*L*U*R*

    *P*L*U*R*
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    I've heard that Marth's Dtilt was only IASA-able by dashes, jumps and other Dtilts. Is that true?
     
  22. X1-12

    X1-12
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    its not true, I just tested it to make sure
     
  23. TheCrimsonBlur

    TheCrimsonBlur
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    The most useful thing about this I find is showing how much bigger Marth's hitboxes are than his sword (except for usmash). His range is even bigger than you think lol. His head even has some huge hitboxes (bair, fair) lol. I wish there were slower gifs to show it better though...:/

    Look at the bottom of fair for example. Thats a falling fair (hitbox stretched up), and there is still a huge hitbox under and past the sword. Marths soooo goood lolz.
     
  24. MT_

    MT_
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    Can someone explain exactly what the frame numbers for the auto-cancel sections mean?
     
  25. X1-12

    X1-12
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    Auto cancel: <5 48>


    If you land before frame 5, or after frame 48 you land with only the normal landing lag (~4 frames)
     
  26. MT_

    MT_
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    Thanks. This makes me want to ask another question concerning auto-canceled nairs. The data is as follows:

    Total: 49
    Hit: 6-7, 15-21
    Auto cancel: <5 25>
    Landlag: 15
    Lcanceled: 7

    People keep saying that auto-canceled nairs are so good or whatever. But a perfect auto-cancel nair will end on frame 29 (land on frame 25 + 4 frames normal jump landing lag = 29). However, a perfect l-canceled nair that includes the entirety of the second hitbox up until frame 21 will also end on frame 29 (land on frame 22 + 7 frames l-cancel landing lag = 29). Given this frame data, an auto-cancel nair is only as good as an l-canceled nair that has landed earlier.

    BUT, you don't need the entirety of the second hitbox frames to get the actual hit out, do you? So you can be slightly faster than an auto-cancel nair with an l-cancel nair if you fall earlier.

    In the end, I guess the difference is that the l-canceled nair (that's as fast as the auto-cancel nair) will be much lower to the ground than the auto-cancel nair, which will hit higher at almost the same speed.

    Dunno, I always questioned how much better auto-canceled nairs were compared to just regular l-canceled nairs. To auto-cancel you have to wait a little longer before you land, but would that wait time really made up for by only 3 frames less lag upon landing? The frame data helps answer this question I guess.
     
  27. TheCrimsonBlur

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  28. Metal Reeper

    Metal Reeper
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    The shieldbreaker looks real pretty :D
     
  29. VietGeek

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    Man Marth is such a beastly prince. Shield Breaker has a hitbox on his firm ***. :012:

    At some point it might be nice to add the get-up attacks too. The ledge ones especially (since they supposedly suck). Random quenching of thirsts for knowledge right? *shrug*

    Thank you X1-12 for being a hero. An Altean hero. :048:
     
  30. Teczer0

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    Also, if you can add the Shield Breaker in mid-air.

    Its supposed to have a ridiculously low hitbox.
     
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  31. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic
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    Edit, nvmind I'm dumb

    Still missing the reverse up B and counter slash though.
     
  32. Signia

    Signia
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    One of the best uses of frame data in other FGs is that it helps you understand what beats what after your opponent blocks your attack. However, this "frame data" doesn't list the frames of hitstun or blockstun for each attack. Without these, it's impossible to determine who has frame advantage in any given situation.

    All the startup and active frames tell us is how fast attacks are or how long they last. This is useful in an "even" situation (like after a clash maybe?) but when moves don't start the same time (i.e. when frame advantage is NOT even, which is almost all the time) this information is useless until we determine just how uneven the situation is.

    In order to illustrate my point, consider the situation when Samus's utilt hitbox hits your full shield near the end of its animation. Will her jab beat your shield grab? Sure, jab is faster than the grab but the blockstun and the attack animation makes it so attacks will start at different times. Does the blockstun end sooner than the attack animation or vice versa? How much sooner? Unless you know, you're just guessing what the best course of action is, with only past experiences to go by.

    I understand that the stale moves and shield hardness can affect hitstun and blockstun, and each move has many different hitboxes but a ballpark range for each would be very useful in determining who has the advantage in a given situation.

    Idk about you guys, but I'm sick of trying to just "feel" when it's safe to shieldgrab, attack someone's shield, or wavedash out of shield. Not knowing what beats what makes me think I still don't know how to play the game yet. Like not knowing that paper beats rock.
     
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  33. Wo1f

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    What do you mean by IASA frames?
     
  34. Winston

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    You can get the hitbox out earlier, it's safer upon landing (3 frames less is significant, yes), and also importantly you have more control of your aerial spacing while doing the move autocanceled. (For example, moving forward slightly on someone's shield and drifting back before you land, baiting a shieldgrab or something.) It's not strictly better, but those are a lot of upsides.
     
  35. Kadano

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    I request aerial Shieldbreaker. I wonder if the hitbox really goes as much farther downwards as the normal animation suggests.
     
  36. HeaDachE

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    U have to love marth's hitboxes.
     
  37. Signia

    Signia
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    Not really, they don't last very long, and the last bubble for the tipper is small.

    Takes serious precision to get the hits you want.

    Could you guys list the unstaled damage done by each of the moves? Damage correlates to hitstun, and with that and Strongbad's hitstun calculator we can actually get somewhere.
     
  38. Strong Bad

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    didn't I already include shieldstun in my Excel?

    Shieldstun = floor(Damage+4.45/2.235)
     
  39. juiey2

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    up smash is FAIL
     
  40. toastbread

    toastbread
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    Hey this is like my first post, so ok I was wondering if theres any guide/ any person who knows how the knock back for Marth's forward air work. Like which part sets up for Ken combo, juggling etc.
     
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