Data COMPLETE: Marth Hitboxes and Frame Data

[TheCrimsonBlur]

....

quoting X1-12 so he gets the alert

 

[Crawfish]

So how does reversing up b make it any better? What exactly does it change?

 

[Mahie]

Nothing. It's just way easier to get the proper hitbox that way, and most of the time when you do it you are airborne and thus you need to come back to the stage, but I use dash/run --> Frontal upB to punish missed techs at higher %s. You just have to do it from way further away than you would in reverse.

 

[.K1]

If possible could someone tell me if Marth is at frame advantage or disadvantage in these situations:


falling fair (as late as possible on opponents shield)
First hit of side B on shield (just need to know how much hitstun it does)
Shffl Nair (second attack hits as late as possible on the opponents shield)


I imagine marth would be at slight frame advantage on the falling fair. I just need to know how many frames of shield stun each move does really.....that in itself would help a lot.

Also, do B moves have IASA? For example, can Marth do f+B IASA Jab? I dont mean having the second hit come out of DED....I mean an actual jab swipe....or does marth have to finish the side B's full recovery THEN do Jab ?


Could someone provide some insight?

 

[Kadano]

Nothing. It's just way easier to get the proper hitbox that way, and most of the time when you do it you are airborne and thus you need to come back to the stage, but I use dash/run --> Frontal upB to punish missed techs at higher %s. You just have to do it from way further away than you would in reverse.

To be (overly) precise, this is not true. The reversal happens after the strong hitbox is already gone, so reversing cannot make landing the sweetspot easier.

If possible could someone tell me if Marth is at frame advantage or disadvantage in these situations:


falling fair (as late as possible on opponents shield)
First hit of side B on shield (just need to know how much hitstun it does)
Shffl Nair (second attack hits as late as possible on the opponents shield)

Also, do B moves have IASA? For example, can Marth do f+B IASA Jab? I dont mean having the second hit come out of DED....I mean an actual jab swipe....or does marth have to finish the side B's full recovery THEN do Jab ?


Could someone provide some insight?

Falling fair and nair are −1 (the opponent can act one frame earlier than Marth). FYI, autocancel nair on shield is −2.
B moves have no IASA frames in general, no. There might be exceptions, but not for Marth.

 

[Mahie]

Really ?

It felt like I had to space myself differently in order to use reversed or not reversed upB, but they're actually the same ? I always leave more distance for a frontal one.

 

[Kadano]

Really ?

It felt like I had to space myself differently in order to use reversed or not reversed upB, but they're actually the same ? I always leave more distance for a frontal one.

I just checked it again so I could rule out my memory being faulty.
The strong hitbox is only out on frame 5. Between frame 5 and 6, control stick position is read and the attack’s orientation is determined accordingly. Interestingly, Dolphin Slash’s angle is determined earlier, between frames 1 and 5. It seems like the average of the analog values between these frames is used for the angle calculation.
What really surprised me is that holding backwards during these frames (but not between frame 5 and 6, as that would cause a reversal) will make the Δx increase instead of decreasing compared to neutral or straight up/down analog inputs (those all cause the exactly same angles). Of course, holding forwards will cause even greater Δx.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Oops, wrong thread

 

[jacobpilawa]

Okay, I have a question. For Marth's U-Tilt, the hitbox is behind him as well right? Does it have the same trajectory if you hit the same way on backwards and forwards?

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

Can anyone else not see the gifs?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah they were all hosted on photobucket and have ran out of monthly bandwidth. Someone should reup on imgur.com

 

[Bones0]

You can still check them individually by going to the actual Photobucket, but yeah, getting them reuploaded on imgur would be the best idea so this doesn't happen again. I'd do it myself if my internet wasn't such ass.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

You can still check them individually by going to the actual Photobucket, but yeah, getting them reuploaded on imgur would be the best idea so this doesn't happen again. I'd do it myself if my internet wasn't such ***.

So if I put these all in an imgur album OP will just replace the links?

 

[Bones0]

So if I put these all in an imgur album OP will just replace the links?

The OP or a mod will, yeah.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

Here it is, I didn't know which Jabs/Side B's were which so they all have a question mark next to them.

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

need more bandwidth! or can someone replace the images with the new imgur album

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

need more bandwidth! or can someone replace the images with the new imgur album

Read the thread

 

[goateeguy]

Are there any similar animations or at least frame data for dash-dance turnarounds and/or pivoting?

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

If someone could re link the gifs in the original post, that would be useful.
having to look them up again then go to the first post to check numbers is a bit tedious.

 

[Mr. $mooth]

This is great but could you get frame data of the reverse dolphin

 

[Kadano]

Okay, I have a question. For Marth's U-Tilt, the hitbox is behind him as well right? Does it have the same trajectory if you hit the same way on backwards and forwards?

I don’t believe you still care, but on the off chance you do, this picture should answer your questions:

This is great but could you get frame data of the reverse dolphin

What kind of frame data do you want? If you scroll up a bit, you’ll find a post in which I explained how the angle is determined and that the hitboxes are the same for reversals.

 

[worldjem7]

Could you add information to the first post like Ledge stand/attack/roll/jump under 100% and at 100%+, Landing lag, when dash becomes run, like how Sheik has it?

Thanks! And thanks for the frame data! It's a great resource!

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

Could you add information to the first post like Ledge stand/attack/roll/jump under 100% and at 100%+, Landing lag, when dash becomes run, like how Sheik has it?

Thanks! And thanks for the frame data! It's a great resource!

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html

 

[X1-12]

What's up, I don't check smashboards so didn't know the links were broken, only found out when I saw people posting about it on the MIOM podcast facebook group. Everything is now re-uploaded on my imgur and links are changed - enjoy

 

[Crawfish]

can someone help me with all of marths fairs?
like, what directions the opponent are sent?

 

[Kadano]

can someone help me with all of marths fairs?
like, what directions the opponent are sent?

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)/Forward_aerial

 

[Crawfish]

much thanks man
i feel kinda foolish seeing that it was on smash wiki, woops

 

[Crawfish]

oss \('.')/

 

[MistFist]

this helped a lot! thx a bunch lol ive never missed a ken combo after i studied the hit boxes

 

[Mister the Wizard]

I'd love to know how to tell apart sweet spots from sour spots. For example, where does his Dair spike and where does it just do regular Knockback? As far as I can tell in the Gif all the hitboxes are just red.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

You can find out by using the moves yourself.

Dair spikes on the bottom hitboxes

 

[Mister the Wizard]

You can find out by using the moves yourself.

Dair spikes on the bottom hitboxes

Thanks.
On another note, since I've always played P:M and I'm very new to melee, I'd love to know how to do all this move reversal stuff. I've heard a lot about Marth's reversed up B and Falcons, but I still have no idea what it is or how to do it.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

Press up b in the opposite direction you're facing

 

[Mister the Wizard]

Press up b in the opposite direction you're facing

Oh ok. Thats a lot easier than I thought xD I thought it was going to be some wierd complicated version of B-reversing for melee.

 

[THT Shadow]

could you hit marth out of his counter? small parts of his hurtbox seem to stuck out of the blue bubble

i support this project btw, i learned a lot about my mains by looking at their hitboxes

The Hitbox of the move to hit that tiny hurtbox in the counter must be amazing but i dont think unless someone gets a Frame perfect Firefox i dont see somebody hitting that tiny hurtbox

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

Anyone have a getup attack gif? I'm pretty sure if you space it right you can just stand on top of marth and his get up attack won't hit you

 

[DJ _ICE]

@ Mister the Wizard , a helpful tidbit about the Dair, the bottom hitbox (the tipper and spike) out prioritizes the other hitboxes, meaning as long as you hit that, even if all the others hitboxes connect, it will always be a tipper. I think its the only Marth move that does that

 

[Mister the Wizard]

@ Mister the Wizard , a helpful tidbit about the Dair, the bottom hitbox (the tipper and spike) out prioritizes the other hitboxes, meaning as long as you hit that, even if all the others hitboxes connect, it will always be a tipper. I think its the only Marth move that does that

Thanks a lot! Ken combos are still relatively difficult for me, but now I can at least get the D-air when I want to, e.g. when someone is trying to recover. This entire thread has been really helpful.

 

[harMoNiC]

Anyone have a getup attack gif? I'm pretty sure if you space it right you can just stand on top of marth and his get up attack won't hit you

Here you are:

Jigglypuff (not sure if any others?) can crouch on top of Marth and not get hit. Seems like a good rest setup.

Edit:

I did some rough testing. Some other top-tiers can crouch it, too. I only tested it with S/A tiers, but...

Marth can duck his back get-up at his feet (but not his head). Additionally, both Sheik and Puff can duck both of his get-up attacks at his feet only.

 

[Oddyesy]

Hey guys. I'd like to thank you for putting work into this great resource. I'm in the midst of a Liquipedia project, so this helps me out immensely.