Data COMPLETE: Marth Hitboxes and Frame Data

[OverLord]

Hey this is like my first post, so ok I was wondering if theres any guide/ any person who knows how the knock back for Marth's forward air work. Like which part sets up for Ken combo, juggling etc.

It's DI dependant. Most people will just DI away and avoid getting Ken-combo'd.

You have to guess how they're going to DI and choose the next move accordingly.

 

[toastbread]

Still today I tried to sweet spot Marth's forward air so my opponent goes up instead of away, and couldn't find an exact spot, any suggestions? Since im fairly certain that if you hit with a certain part of his sword, no matter what your opponent goes up

 

[X1-12]

In general the tip sends them up and the rest sends them forward and up, but both are still dependant on how they DI

 

[Mario Moonshine]

Frame data on standing and rolling techs would be useful, I think. Of course all get-ups should be covered frame-wise. Actually, this stat would be useful for all characters, because if a player is working on a certain match-up it can help them break down their offensive tech chasing options.

 

[PolishSmash]

Can someone just explain to me what each number represents? And which numbers I should study as a Marth main? Thanks. I'm a newcomer

 

[MaxThunder]

Can someone just explain to me what each number represents? And which numbers I should study as a Marth main? Thanks. I'm a newcomer

you would want to study all of them... kinda... i'll explain better how to read the stuff...
using fair as an example...

F-air

Total: 33 <--- this number tells you how long the forward aerial animation is,
measured in frames... one frame is 1/60th of a second...
So there's 60 frames in one second...
Hit: 4-7 <--- this tells you that the hitboxes for the attack comes out on frame 4 and
lasts until frame 7...
IASA: 30 <--- IASA means "interruptable as soon as"... so at frame 30 of the attack, you
can cancell the last 3 frames of the attack by doing something else...
Auto cancel: 27> <--- this tells you that if you land the attack on frame 27, you won't get
landing lag for the attack... you'll just get a few frames of lag that
you get anyways whenever you land from an empty jump...
Landlag: 15 <--- this is how much landing lag the attack has when not L-canceled...
Lcanceled: 7 <-- and this is how much landing lag it has when it is L-canceled...

so... hope this helps and stuff...

 

[PolishSmash]

you would want to study all of them... kinda... i'll explain better how to read the stuff...
using fair as an example...

F-air

Total: 33 <--- this number tells you how long the forward aerial animation is,
measured in frames... one frame is 1/60th of a second...
So there's 60 frames in one second...
Hit: 4-7 <--- this tells you that the hitboxes for the attack comes out on frame 4 and
lasts until frame 7...
IASA: 30 <--- IASA means "interruptable as soon as"... so at frame 30 of the attack, you
can cancell the last 3 frames of the attack by doing something else...
Auto cancel: 27> <--- this tells you that if you land the attack on frame 27, you won't get
landing lag for the attack... you'll just get a few frames of lag that
you get anyways whenever you land from an empty jump...
Landlag: 15 <--- this is how much landing lag the attack has when not L-canceled...
Lcanceled: 7 <-- and this is how much landing lag it has when it is L-canceled...

so... hope this helps and stuff...

Thank you for the help So like I would pick specific attacks that I would use in battle that have the least total frames for example? How do I incorporate this knowledge into my gameplay?

 

[Mahie]

Quite frankly, I don't think you're at the level where you need to worry about that. Trying to improve too fast won't help you, you should primarily focus on techskill for now, and by that I mean the basics, from Lcancel to SHFFL , wavedash and what comes from it (waveland, ledgedash...) until it's second nature to you.

And of course, as a marth main, you need to make sure you know what part of your sword is gonna connect, and what will happen from it.

Try to practice very basic combos against lv1 cpus, stuff like uthrow > utilt > tipper on a Fox for instance.

Once you've got all that down, you can start with the more advanced stuff, but really, knowing that the jab lasts for 27 frames won't help right now.

 

[PolishSmash]

Quite frankly, I don't think you're at the level where you need to worry about that. Trying to improve too fast won't help you, you should primarily focus on techskill for now, and by that I mean the basics, from Lcancel to SHFFL , wavedash and what comes from it (waveland, ledgedash...) until it's second nature to you.

And of course, as a marth main, you need to make sure you know what part of your sword is gonna connect, and what will happen from it.

Try to practice very basic combos against lv1 cpus, stuff like uthrow > utilt > tipper on a Fox for instance.

Once you've got all that down, you can start with the more advanced stuff, but really, knowing that the jab lasts for 27 frames won't help right now.

Oh ok thanks man I'll practice that then

 

[Soft Serve]

The tip of Marth's hair doesn't have a hurtbox? bull. DK's tie has a hurtbox, but not Marth's hair?

 

[t-iceman]

The tip of Marth's hair doesn't have a hurtbox? bull. DK's tie has a hurtbox, but not Marth's hair?

he styles the front of his hair all the time making it invincible duh

 

[.Chipmunk.]

he styles the front of his hair all the time making it invincible duh

Dat gel too good

 

[Soft Serve]

Marth's hair for top-tier.

 

[mexicanmax227]

Getting up from ledge frame data please.

 

[mexicanmax227]

L-cancel grab and dashing l-cancel grab. plz How many frames?

 

[.Chipmunk.]

L-cancel grab and dashing l-cancel grab. plz How many frames?

Dashing l-cancel grab? Do you mean a jump cancel grab? Or shield grab? If it's jump cancel, it's 1-4 frames slower than a standing grab (grabs frames 7-8) so 8/9 - 11/12. An l-cancel grab depends on the move of course, but most l-cancel moves have 7 lag frames and it would be a standing grab which is still 7-8 so 14-15 at the earliest. Bair has 12 lag frames and rising nair has 4. You can do the math from there I think.

 

[knightpraetor]

I use this page every week or two, yet I am often disappointed cause it doesn't have the stand on frame the ledge data/roll data/jump data from the ledge or the roll data/stand up data as followups for when you miss a tech. I feel like for completeness sake I would like for them to be here.

Finally I think the landing lag from an airdodge/wavedash should be posted. It takes so many frames for a wd to complete, which is useful for comparing wd down at the ledge to stand on in place.

It's not necessary that i have pictures. the numbers would be enough

 

[X1-12]

I use this page every week or two, yet I am often disappointed cause it doesn't have the stand on frame the ledge data/roll data/jump data from the ledge or the roll data/stand up data as followups for when you miss a tech. I feel like for completeness sake I would like for them to be here.

Finally I think the landing lag from an airdodge/wavedash should be posted. It takes so many frames for a wd to complete, which is useful for comparing wd down at the ledge to stand on in place.

It's not necessary that i have pictures. the numbers would be enough

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html

 

[knightpraetor]

thanks that's a lot of help. one more thing though that wasn't listed. How do i determine the lag I will have when i wavedash? i remember hearing once that wavedash lag is the same number of frames regardless of whether you go a short distance or go straight down. but i don't know how many frames that is.

 

[X1-12]

landing lag from a wavedash or waveland is 10 frames for every character. total wavedash time depends on how many frames it takes to jump which you can find here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=30064

 

[odinNJ]

Marth's hair for top-tier.

If only his hair was read and spikey, oh wait.

 

[knightpraetor]

so is there any place i can go to find the tech roll and tech get up frame data for the characters?

 

[X1-12]

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html

 

[knightpraetor]

I looked at those links..they only contained links for rolls and ledge roll, not for techrolls or tech get up.

 

[knightpraetor]

really wish the cooldown of shieldbreaker from release was listed

also, what can you do with IASA frames? am i right that you can't shield? but you can jump, and therefore JC grab? i remember hearing this but i always tap forward and grab and couldn't get JC grab to work.

 

[X1-12]

You can shield during IASA frames on nearly all moves (afaik, marth's D-tilt is one of a very small number of moves you cannot - but you can get round this by walking first then shielding) I believe you can do basically anything else.

During IASA frames I don't see why you would want to JC grab, why not just standing normal grab?

 

[knightpraetor]

z is technically hitting shield; i believe it doesn't work without moving first? not sure though..i've just always tapped forward then grabbed. i wanted someone to confirm it though

 

[X1-12]

just tested and don't seem to be able to grab out of marths D-tilt IASA, just hold to the side and delay the z a bit and you'll cancel the IASA into a walk then grab from that, its not that hard to do it so you don't even see your char walking

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah that's what i've always done.. just wanted to check to make sure that those two were the only things i can't do..

 

[Bones0]

You can't use B moves either. You can jump before using up-B or counter, and you can just buffer walk for side-B, but obviously neither of those will work if you want to grounded neutral-B.

 

[AustinRC]

Hey, how much shield stun does tippered uair do?

 

[X1-12]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=302275

 

[knightpraetor]

what determines whether counter works again? or more specifically when does it fail. If you know the fox can't sweetspot from his position but he does have the option to ride the wall can he ride the wall and hit you despite the counter?

cause marth's feet look awfully exposed and easy to target. I guess the rule is the hitbox must touch marth's foot without touching the counter box right?

it seems like the hitbox from firefox would always hit marth's foot before hitting the part that activates counter, but since that doesn't happen, there must some part of the mechanics I don't understand. Still right now i'm debating whether I should counter when the fox is close enough that he has multiple angles even though he can't sweetspot..basically when fox is really close to the ledge.

wd back and ftilt if he can't sweetpot isn't too bad except at low percents when the knockback isn't good..fsmash's angle sucks so I wouldn't use that if i had a choice of course.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

what determines whether counter works again? or more specifically when does it fail. If you know the fox can't sweetspot from his position but he does have the option to ride the wall can he ride the wall and hit you despite the counter?

cause marth's feet look awfully exposed and easy to target. I guess the rule is the hitbox must touch marth's foot without touching the counter box right?

it seems like the hitbox from firefox would always hit marth's foot before hitting the part that activates counter, but since that doesn't happen, there must some part of the mechanics I don't understand. Still right now i'm debating whether I should counter when the fox is close enough that he has multiple angles even though he can't sweetspot..basically when fox is really close to the ledge.

wd back and ftilt if he can't sweetpot isn't too bad except at low percents when the knockback isn't good..fsmash's angle sucks so I wouldn't use that if i had a choice of course.

Meh. Just be lazy and turn around. Marth's back foot isn't as exposed as his front and you'll probably get away with it.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I wish damage and frame advantage were added to these threads. Also techroll gifs...

Really handy reference overall of course, but it could be even better.

 

[Mahie]

I wish damage and frame advantage were added to these threads. Also techroll gifs...

Really handy reference overall of course, but it could be even better.

Yeah Hitlag / Shieldlag / Shieldstun etc would all be cool to know too.

 

[X1-12]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=302275

^That may help you, but you'll have to find out the damages yourself unless someone wants to update the OP (if they do any mods feel free to transfer the OP)

 

[knightpraetor]

it would be wonderful if your ledge options could be shown in gifs too. In particular i would die to be able to see the animation and hitboxes for get up attack from the ledge below 100% since I use it in edgeguarding.

Also it would be nice to more accurately understand the ranges of your get up attacks after failing to tech and falling on the ground.

 

[HellTyrant]

Hey please fix the gifs, they are now meaningless Photobucket messages

 

[felipe_9595]

Can anybody reupload this please ?