Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Ziodyne 21]

Pfft they nerf , I cant have anything can I?

 

[Untouch]

Yea they nerf . I cant have anything csn i

It's not a nerf, the hitlag was changed not the hitstun, nair functions the same.

 

[KakuCP9]

RIP Chromcide.

Yet they kept Ike's?

As it was already said, Chrom has practical ways to combo into suicide kill while the closest thing Ike has is a situational confirm off his cheater n-air. 'Cides, it's not much of a pracital match ender to begin with and can still be used to trade stocks mid-game rather than in a last stock situation.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Seems like Nintendo wants Ken to be a nair spamming rushdown character.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

It's not a nerf, the hitlag was changed not the hitstun, nair functions the same.

Nope its nerfed watch it combo intp nothing anymore it will happen. Fate wants to kicl me down in every way. Yea lets keep ikes the same and npt change the likes pf Fpx or Wario who are better. F*** my life

 

[Zinith]

's fair has his time not being able to grab ledges shortened. That seems to be his only change...

 

[J0eyboi]

Nope its nerfed watch it combo intp nothing anymore it will happen

Can we have a "no doomsaying" rule?

Anyway, another change I find interesting is that Shulk got his landing lag on Fair reduced. This may seem like a buff, and it's possible that it is one overall, but Fair having 10 frames of landing lag was actually quite useful for Shulk, as it meant you could hold B during Fair's landing lag, buffer an action right afterwards, and automatically get a fully charged dial. Reducing its landing lag messes this up. Now, using Fair lag to buffer a dial charge will result in 1-2 less frames stored, which could very much be the difference between a lot of combos requiring dial storage working or not working. I don't think this is too big a deal for Shulk, as a lot of dial storage based stuff wasn't super practical anyway, but I can't help but wonder if the devs meant to mess with dial storage by reducing Fair's landing lag or if that was an unintended side effect.

 

[Lavani]

I will caution right away to not look at the amount of Brawler buffs and say 'wow this is the most buffed character.' Remember that he, being a Mii, has more special moves to buff than other characters, so the volume of buffs isn't the same as they would be for a 'normal' character. I wish they would specify which special moves they were talking about in the notes though, because if they don't make it clear by mentioning a 'kick' or something, they're too ambiguous.

Even with caution and careful reading, though, Brawler is still getting away with a truckload of buffs to normals and even the useful specials, so good for him. Few needed it as badly as he did.

The English notes didn't specify which special numbers were used, but the Japanese ones did. Notes adjusted with specified specials:

RIP Chromcide.

Yet they kept Ike's?

Ike's upB received a nerf to the spike as well. It's possible it wasn't enough to change who dies first, but it's also possible they only bothered making that clarification on Chrom. It'll be something to check after the patch.

 

[TTTTTsd]

K. Rool Up+B hitbox feels like it is marginally worse. It still hits super far above his head so i assume all they did with this was remove the janky ladder. D-Throw bury nerf isnt substantial either since you only ever used it for post-bury pressure.

All of his changes are basically nerfs that don't affect how he functions at a high level rn. Sure feels like it anyways lol.

 

[Y2Kay]

Luckily for you all, the Hydro pump nerf won’t allow him to abuse the hell out QAC esque HP cancels on Yoshi’s Island Brawl. Low key was one of his best stages because of it.

 

[Lord Dio]

It's not a nerf, the hitlag was changed not the hitstun, nair functions the same.

"Shortened hitstun time. "
nope, def nerf
this makes me irate that they nerf one of the best tools of a character who was low tier last game,, but won't do the same to ike, who was in the same tier last game and got buffed just like palu.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Ness actually got a couple “buffs” in reduced landing lag for uair which could lead to new combos possibly and more damage for dair. The biggest nerfs to Ness would be if Shiek and Rosa’s changes make them viable

Still have nightmares of Rosalina taking away your recovery?

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Can we have a "no doomsaying" rule?

Anyway, another change I find interesting is that Shulk got his landing lag on Fair reduced. This may seem like a buff, and it's possible that it is one overall, but Fair having 10 frames of landing lag was actually quite useful for Shulk, as it meant you could hold B during Fair's landing lag, buffer an action right afterwards, and automatically get a fully charged dial. Reducing its landing lag messes this up. Now, using Fair lag to buffer a dial charge will result in 1-2 less frames stored, which could very much be the difference between a lot of combos requiring dial storage working or not working. I don't think this is too big a deal for Shulk, as a lot of dial storage based stuff wasn't super practical anyway, but I can't help but wonder if the devs meant to mess with dial storage by reducing Fair's landing lag or if that was an unintended side effect.

I wi say what want, I bet your main did not get nerfs at all that will ruin them. I must siffer. Life wants me to suffer. There all laughing at me ALL LAUGHING AT ME

 

[Luigifan18]

K. Rool Up+B hitbox feels like it is marginally worse. It still hits super far above his head so i assume all they did with this was remove the janky ladder. D-Throw bury nerf isnt substantial either since you only ever used it for post-bury pressure.

All of his changes are basically nerfs that don't affect how he functions at a high level rn. Sure feels like it anyways lol.

Please tell me the recovery distance wasn't changed...

 

[KakuCP9]

umm...guys, this is post-patch Luigi

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[trickroom]

umm...guys, this is post-patch Luigi

There was a problem fetching the tweet

here it is on a normal stage, if its easier to understand on FD instead of the wonky training stage.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[J0eyboi]

umm...guys, this is post-patch Luigi

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Thought that might happen. Grounded Dair was only ever the ender for the combo, and didn't seem hard to replace.

I wi say what want, I bet your main did not get nerfs at all that will ruin them. I must siffer. Life wants me to suffer. There all laughing at me ALL LAUGHING AT ME

Can no longer tell whether or not you're joking. If you are, it isn't funny. If you aren't, I recommend seeking professional help.

Anyway, another change I find interesting is that Shulk got his landing lag on Fair reduced. This may seem like a buff, and it's possible that it is one overall, but Fair having 10 frames of landing lag was actually quite useful for Shulk, as it meant you could hold B during Fair's landing lag, buffer an action right afterwards, and automatically get a fully charged dial. Reducing its landing lag messes this up. Now, using Fair lag to buffer a dial charge will result in 1-2 less frames stored, which could very much be the difference between a lot of combos requiring dial storage working or not working. I don't think this is too big a deal for Shulk, as a lot of dial storage based stuff wasn't super practical anyway, but I can't help but wonder if the devs meant to mess with dial storage by reducing Fair's landing lag or if that was an unintended side effect.

So about this: Shulk's landing lag on Fair is apparently unchanged. "Landing time" may refer to autocancel window instead of landing lag, or possibly both.

 

[Untouch]

"Shortened hitstun time. "
nope, def nerf
this makes me irate that they nerf one of the best tools of a character who was low tier last game,, but won't do the same to ike, who was in the same tier last game and got buffed just like palu.

It's not hitstun.
It's hitlag.
It'll make reacting harder, but the move functions the same, it's all visual.

 

[Lavani]

"Shortened hitstun time. "
nope, def nerf
this makes me irate that they nerf one of the best tools of a character who was low tier last game,, but won't do the same to ike, who was in the same tier last game and got buffed just like palu.

The English game tips/patch notes uses hitstun to refer to hitstop/hitlag. The Japanese patchnotes refer to it as hitlag. If you see "shortened hitstun", it's only a nerf on projectiles (in 2.0.0's case, Duck Hunt's sideB) and otherwise just serves to make the animation less sluggish on hit.

If that weren't the case, one would have to wonder what hitstun on 's pummels could possibly be doing.

 

[MG_3989]

Still have nightmares of Rosalina taking away your recovery?

*shudders*

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh. Luigi community is intent on having their character nerfed into oblivion.

Stop posting your toys as soon as you find them guys.

Nintendo will take them away.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Just a reminder I guess: Chromcide is still a thing. Its just not an option for him on his last stock anymore. If he wants to open up the game with a Chromcide he still can.

 

[Yonder]

Eh. Luigi community is intent on having their character nerfed into oblivion.

Stop posting your toys as soon as you find them guys.

Nintendo will take them away.

Bound to happen eventually. Itll be a few months till it's gone now at least less it becomes polarizing and controls rhe meta. The last one sure didn't, who played Luigi besides Elegant/Concon/sometimes Stroder?

And I'm ok with Nintendo taking away 0-death things if he is nicely compensated. Increased down b power and a better u smash and less vulnerable side b was nice.

If he could mash that down b then I'd be set.

 

[MG_3989]

Plant is really weird and I don’t really like the way it plays. Kind of clunky, but it’s specials seem really good and it’s recovery is ridiculous

 

[Ziodyne 21]

The English game tips/patch notes uses hitstun to refer to hitstop/hitlag. The Japanese patchnotes refer to it as hitlag. If you see "shortened hitstun", it's only a nerf on projectiles (in 2.0.0's case, Duck Hunt's sideB) and otherwise just serves to make the animation less sluggish on hit.

If that weren't the case, one would have to wonder what hitstun on 's pummels could possibly be doing.

No its beem nerfed. I will not belive otherwise. Nothing but bad things ever happen tp me.

 

[Gleam]

So just playing for a few minutes, you can already see both some positives and negatives. It's easy to see Neutral B as being a nice edgeguarding tool. Side B is another move I can easily see just putting pressure on edgeguarding and forcing different approach while racking up damage. Down B is the same, why risk getting to the edge when I can just sit back here in the corner to make certain moves though much like Ridley's Skewer I can see Down B as being very situation.

You can true combo Dthrow to Fair and Dtilt+Fair each one can be true comboed to as high as 130%...like go easy Plant. You can true combo a few early percentage Utilts which could probably be comboed into a few other moves. Right now, from testing (and that's what this is, just testing) Plant doesn't have a lot of combos but the ones he does last a long time.

Like a true combo as high as 130%, that's nice.

Plant feels like a character who is going to rely on his minimum but lasting combos and utilizing his specials to force different approaches, edgeguard and rack up damage. I can easily see Plant as a character who can provide a decent level of pressure when it comes to offstage control. Side B for example seems to pretty much cover all options in damage racking while keeping Plant at a safe distance.

If you hang on the edge, you take damage. If you try to roll or attack, you take damage, if you try to jump you take damage. It's, as I play, a decent damage racking move. It's a move I can see forcing different approaches and aggression. Like if you want to get to me, you're going to be taken a few licks whether you like it or not.

Plant's recovery is nice distance wise but with no options out of it makes it easy to intercept.

Those are what I've found out right now.

 

[The_Bookworm]

The K. Rool nerf isn't really significant, but it does beg the question why they did it.
Kirby's changes aren't really significant, but helpful and it is definitely a step in the right direction.
Something that made me curious is that they made 's missiles improved. However, they didn't list in the same change for . Is it an error in their part, or they are actually making another difference between the two?
What they did to his combo game is genius. They removed the stupid 0-death due to the down air change, while at the same time, retaining his down throw's inherent amazing combo ability. The small buffs to his up smash and recovery also helps him.
Got interesting changes. The down tilt and back air change interests me the most. Down tilt is now an even more scary semi-spike. The back air change gives me Melee flashbacks, but then I remembered that back air now auto turns it around, so I am not too worried.
The Ice Climber change has me excited. "Nana and Popo will follow each other more when separated." Does that mean Nana AI is fixed, or at least competent? I think this is a huge change some people are overlooking.
His forward tilt change interests me. "This move will now always launch forward." Is this a new tech chase move on his hands?
Kind of saw the suicide up B change coming. It still KOs at 0%, and can still be reliably combo'ed into (at least for Chrom's case), so this is still a very potent option when you are in a stock lead. Thank goodness this essence of jank is removed tbh.
He got his f-air attack range improved. Does this mean it travels faster to improve it's range? Or does it mean it simply takes longer to detonate it to improve the range? I am curious if this is actually a buff.
I am kind of confused on the forward smash change. Kind of a shame Flip Kick footstool got nerfed, but it really isn't significant at all. You should have stayed quiet Choco.
The Dedede nerf barely affects the character, but why would they nerf Dedede again in a patch? Guess they have to keep tradition...
Not sure if the Mega Man change will affect anything involving his special combos, but there is something to note.
Really nice to see Rosa get recognized. Nintendo must've realized they went overboard with her nerfs. Still... time will tell if these changes will actually make her viable, or at least more interesting to pick up.
Speaking of lower tiered characters getting some love, Nintendo seems to realize that Mii Brawler is simply underwhelming. Steps in the right direction, but unsure if this will be the fire to make him viable (probably not tbh).
He got quite a bit of love as well, by buffing his recovery and him a few other QoL changes. Not a bad character to start with, but his slow speed held him back quite a bit, so cool to see some buffs.
Both got an interesting buff with their forward air. Could the reduced landing lag make it a viable approaching and pressure option that his back air has as well? If so, a huge buff to Ryu specifically considering his power, as well as his slower speed than Ken.
The reduced n-air is interesting. Is another Ike n-air in the works?
We all saw the Splat Roller nerf coming. Thank goodness they made that change. Still very good characters despite this.
Got one very negligible buff, while her other low tier brethren, Rosa, Kirby, Mii Brawler, and ICs, got some buffs. She pretty much got bodied harder than at the Bayonetta 3 teaser trailer.

 

[Nate1080]

Initial thoughts on Plant: he seems like a good character.

In the first 30 seconds of playing him, I thought otherwise. Then I started thinking outside the box.

F/D Smash seem to be disjointed. I could be wrong, but I didn’t take damage nor did my Smash stop when ROB threw his gyro at me for example.
Amazing recovery. Can kill on the top platform of battlefield and fake combo with up throw at low percentages.
Neutral B seems like a good ledgetrap/edgeguard tool. Not just using it on stage, but running off stage with it and even holding B is really good imo. If they hit you out of it, it just falls on them for an easy kill (especially if they don’t tech).
Fully charged Poison plus rapid jab does a ton of damage, up to almost 90% in an actual game (roughly between 60-85 on average in my experience so far).
Poison seems to be a good tool to hide your inputs since you can run into it, useful for ledgetrapping situations and forcing your opponent to guess.
Fully charged Down B reaches so far and kills at just over 100%, sometimes slightly less.
Dair spikes and is totally safe to just throw out off stage, just like Megamans Dair.
The best win animations.

Atm, he seems to be a ledgetrap/edgeguard character, like the Belmonts. I can see good things in the future for Plant.

 

[KirbySquad101]

The changes to Kirby - from what I can gather from the Discord group anyhow - are the following:

Dash attack does more damage (10%/7%/4% -> 12%/9%/6%) with knockback compensated.
F-Tilt has less endlag (FAF 28 -> 24).
Stone (aerial) now has super armor starting on frame 19 (the actual move itself still comes out on frame 28).

Out of all these, I'd say Stone is probably the biggest one; it makes trying to juggle Kirby in the air a riskier option as it's possible he'll now just eat up whatever attack you throw at him.

FTilt is a good change. Nothing fantastic, but it is funny to note that Kirby can spam the move almost as quickly as he can U-Tilt now lol Overall, it makes F-Tilt a better spacing tool that's become harder to punish.

I found it odd that they decided to buff his Dash Attack, considering that the move is actually one of his better attacks, but it's definitely appreciated, the 2% can add up.

Overall, nothing too great, but it's nice that they are giving Kirby some attention. It's certainly a right step in the direction.

 

[Terotrous]

Plant feels like the heaviest character in the game to play, likely a combination of low airspeed or air accel and high gravity. His specials also seem kinda nuts, but I'm not too sold on his kill moves. He looks like he'll be pretty reliant on gimps, which might give him bad matchups against characters that are hard to edgeguard like Palu and Pika. The real question of course is going to be his neutral. Low airspeed is typically considered a bad trait for neutral, and with that gravity he could be very easy to combo. I also don't see his specials being that great in neutral play. Tons of nair spam?

Definitely looking forward to seeing what people do with this character since he seems so unconventional.

 

[Kellojolly]

Ike still dies after the victim during chromicide

I was told Cloud got buffed so I checked it out to be disappointed. He's still solid.

I honestly thought they'd nerf Ike's NAIR (and hopefully buff some of his other moves).

 

[bc1910]

I think Plant is supposed to feel clunky. It's a freaking potted plant.

Its combat persona appears to have been built from a close range brawler (f2 jab gives it away) with some random "wtf" specials thrown in... perhaps mirroring its status as this iteration's "wtf" character. Specials seem really good overall.

Aerials are disappointing but tilts and jab are super solid. Dash attack is unsafe but offers a decent burst option, will probably have similar application to Wolf's although it doesn't seem to combo. Throws seem pretty good as well; side throws launch decently, Dthrow combos until pretty late, Uthrow kills around 150 and seemingly offers neutral B follow-up shenanigans at 0%.

Nair > stuff works. You can get most ground moves out of it and Nair > Dsmash is a kill confirm (Nair Usmash will also work if they're really close to you).

So yeah. Clunky overall with some excellent tools and specials thrown in. Clueless as to how Plant's gonna fare.

 

[Nate1080]

I expect plants neutral to be kind of awkward tbh.

I can already tell that charging poison at the start is going to be a thing, just to rack up damage and as an area denial and such.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike still dies after the victim during chromicide

I was told Cloud got buffed so I checked it out to be disappointed. He's still solid.

I honestly thought they'd nerf Ike's NAIR (and hopefully buff some of his other moves).

They didn't really hit any character's universal go-to moves much (Palutena's Nair is barely a nerf, Wolf wasn't touched at all, etc etc). Seems for the moment they are fine with all of them.

 

[MG_3989]

I expect plants neutral to be kind of awkward tbh.

I can already tell that charging poison at the start is going to be a thing, just to rack up damage and as an area denial and such.

I do too, for me Plant as a character just feels really awkward in general. The specials are definitely good but it just feels so clunky almost like it’s supposed to stand in one spot for as long as possible

 

[boysilver400]

Plant’s side b is insane. A miniature poison does 29% f**king damage. Stupid. It’s pretty much the second coming of the Ink mechanic.

Although I expressed disappointment with Kirby earlier, I’m just glad they gave him something and buffed stone. But some air speed buffs and the RNG bs fix would’ve been nice.

 

[Nate1080]

Yeah, Poison does stupid amounts of damage.

Also, like I said before: you can run into it to hide inputs. That by itself is nuts imo.

 

[DJ3DS]

ROB Side B actually got a buff this time round - it links better now, most noticeably now hitting Pichu (who previously avoided the final hit, took no knockback and could punish a grounded side b that hit with any attack of his choosing) - which is nice.

I'm initially very sceptical on Piranha Plant. The character initially feels incredibly clunky, but I hope someone with more patience than I will put in the work, find some cool stuff and prove me wrong

 

[MG_3989]

Something that I actually find interesting is the way Plant’s up b drags characters. It can definitely score some kills dragging people out of small blast zones I think but it’ll probably be super situational. The down b spike is super interesting too. It’ll be hard getting back onstage against Plant

Also it feels like the longest recovery in the game to me pure distance wise

 

[Jgod]

The changes to Kirby - from what I can gather from the Discord group anyhow - are the following:

Dash attack does more damage (10%/7%/4% -> 12%/9%/6%) with knockback compensated.
F-Tilt has less endlag (FAF 28 -> 24).
Stone (aerial) now has super armor starting on frame 19 (the actual move itself still comes out on frame 28).

Out of all these, I'd say Stone is probably the biggest one; it makes trying to juggle Kirby in the air a riskier option as it's possible he'll now just eat up whatever attack you throw at him.

FTilt is a good change. Nothing fantastic, but it is funny to note that Kirby can spam the move almost as quickly as he can U-Tilt now lol Overall, it makes F-Tilt a better spacing tool that's become harder to punish.

I found it odd that they decided to buff his Dash Attack, considering that the move is actually one of his better attacks, but it's definitely appreciated, the 2% can add up.

Overall, nothing too great, but it's nice that they are giving Kirby some attention. It's certainly a right step in the direction.

All of Kirbys tilts have essentially the same disadvantage on shield now (atleast on first hitbox). The ftilt change is nice because it has more range between it and dtilt so he is safer in general with a spaced ftilt than a dtilt (but dtilt can trip). Technically this makes getting them off the ledge for an edgeguard situation notably more practical.

Edit: Nah they're all good. Ftilts bkb is changed. New ftilt changes going to require some practice to get more out of since it throws enemies into tumble a lot earlier.