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I don't agree with that in SSB4. Spin attack was f8 in 4, now it's frame 7 so it got a 1 f buff. T was using spin in 4 to do things like punish Fox's Utilt. Link's OoS isn't bad at all but there are faster. Marth's dolphin slash, for reference, is invulnerable f4 and hits 5.
His throw is really slow for a set of throws that is so bad. With that said, his down-throw is actually... pretty good? It gets them off stage at a low angle where BJr wants them.
I honestly think Jr. and Kirby belong in the third category. Have a good gameplan, but is a little undertuned.
Doesn't have combos? Uthrow is a combo throw and nets you a free 50% from uair strings at 0%. Kart still combos really well, kart > dair/fair being true at 0%, kart > fair being used after that, kart > uair after that. Utilt's hitbox starts in front of him, now hitting smaller characters like Kirby, and leads into more uairs and can finish with fair/bair.
Zero Suit Waifu has a more reliably-linking up-b now, at the trade off of a smaller initial hitbox and its up-air setup's having exactly one frame more of ending lag. Also down-b and side-b depending on the situation.
Bowser Jr. upthrow? "Guaranteeing" anything?
Most recoveries are pretty linear within the cast though. He just has an extra option available to him to recover which is pretty noteworthy for anyone imo. Link himself is VERY good at gimping and edgeguarding in general, which you already know - and I'd argue that ironically Link's a huge threat to himself offstage.
ok
— zac (@niersighted) January 29, 2019
But that's Ridley, who is tied for 40th when it comes to air speed and 16th for fall speed and one of the largest characters in the game. I've played Iggy since the launch of Smash 4 and there are no free 60% strings. You have to work for combos with Bowser Jr.
His quote said that it wouldn't work on anyone.
But ok, here's Jiggs then. Not quite 50%-- only 44%. But it's like floatier characters are harder to combo.
— zac (@niersighted) January 29, 2019
UpB also got a distance reduction from SSB4. I agree Ultimate Link's recovery isn't terrible but it's on the lower end of the cast. It's still a lot better than Roy or Belmonts.Most recoveries are pretty linear within the cast though. He just has an extra option available to him to recover which is pretty noteworthy for anyone imo. Link himself is VERY good at gimping and edgeguarding in general, which you already know - and I'd argue that ironically Link's a huge threat to himself offstage.
Of course, I'm sure we've both known Link's recovery was probably better overall in Smash4 due to tether which would have been a big help in a game that really seems to make edgeguarding very relevant. But i do think he at least has the means to defend himself in that situation and at least has another option besides up-b to mix things up. Air dodging is also an option too but i personally always seem to forget that
I really dont think his recovery is that bad though, even in this game.
I feel up bs in general took a hit. Papa Bowser, my main got a reduction in up b distance. Literally the way i lose most stocks now cause he's insanely heavy...
I think one of the main problems with Link’s recovery is it’s really easy not just to drop down and spike it but also drop down on it with a counter (and with so many of the top characters in this game being FE characters they have counters). It’s like DK’s in that way. Of course it’s better than the Belmont’s (who get gimped at like 40%) and maybe Chrom’s and is probably about on par with Wolf’s or Ness’s. Probably a little better than those two actually. It’s a functional recovery though which is enough in Ultimate
Uh, Link's up b did not get a distance nerf. It's the exact same as smash 4.
Repli.Cant
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Whenever I play PT I have a habit of always underestimating Charizard (I’ve been hit by stray Flate Blitzes an embarrassing amount of times not to mention Usmash). I always underestimate his air options and how good he is at edgeguarding, I’m learning not to do that quick. He definitely gives me more trouble than Squirtle and a lot of the time more trouble than Ivysaur because people get predictable with Ivysaur’s approaches, edgeguards, and projectiles. Definitely making a mental note to respect Charizard moreI stand corrected on the Bowser Jr. combos, lmao. I really was out here just waiting after the throw, assuming it still had the old endlag. Thank you for going out of your way to enrich everyone's knowledge and prove me wrong
Anyway
I've been playing PT some more, and I'm actually starting to think much more favorably of Charizard. Not only does he have the really good attributes that we've already discussed (run speed, weight, jumps) but his buttons, like Sm4sh, are really dumb in neutral. Jab, bair, usmash, nair, fair, dtilt.... they strike so much fear and damage into the opponent. Especially upsmash -- that move is BUSTED. Insane out-of-shield, insane anti-air, minimal startup and endlag, kills, what more could you want? He's really a massive benefactor of the new dash FAF in general, especially with jab and usmash. I think there are relevant matchups where Charizard is actually more useful than his two cohorts, even before percent gets high. Cloud is the first one that comes to mind: whenever I play against him, Squirtle gets outranged, and Ivysaur is against a character who does everything she does but better (except throw razor leaves but cmon), leaving Charizard to handle the matchup well. His approaches are solid, the usmash covers too much jumping, well-placed nair can prevent Cloud's aerial approaches as well, and Zard can easily force an edgeguard situation with a grab, which is guaranteed to get good damage and can definitely convert into a gimp.
Yeah man, all good. I like the character a good bit! Feels good to let people know about some the cool stuff he can do.I stand corrected on the Bowser Jr. combos, lmao. I really was out here just waiting after the throw, assuming it still had the old endlag. Thank you for going out of your way to enrich everyone's knowledge and prove me wrong
Let’s hope for the best and that nobody gets nerfed into the ground
I think Isabelle is just worse than Villager overall. Without the rocket to mix up her recovery she gets edgeguarded super easily. The bowling ball two frame and ledge drop also really helps villager as well as the tree and axe. I’ve never had trouble with the fishing rod and it’s slow and punishable and I just PK Fire or dtilt the mine with a disjoint and it goes away. Villager just seems better to me
's hopeful tourney success!
Super happy that this update wasHere's hoping to many rousing discussions of
Corrin needed those buffs, and Finishing Touch had a weird quirk where it would completely whiff against smaller characters for no reason.
Those are both buffs, but not really big buffs.
changes don't seem significant. Better luck next time?
The only listed change for Bayo.
again, looks like he got quite a handful of buffs. Jigglypuff got some changes too! Faster bair being the best most likely, perhaps fthrow combos?
Ness actually got a couple “buffs” in reduced landing lag for uair which could lead to new combos possibly and more damage for dair. The biggest nerfs to Ness would be if Shiek and Rosa’s changes make them viable