Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Thinkaman]

I doubt is terribly happy with Pyra/Mythra's existence, and would probably prefer everyone forget about Byleth. This patch doesn't seem especially meaningful to him.

In other news, that janky can/smash hitbox-doubling bug was fixed.

Remains to be seen if 's generous new toy is destined for a similar fate.

 

[PK Gaming]

Pikachu not getting nerfed is likely due to Japan not really giving a **** about the character, but it really is a bummer they didn't touch him

Not because I think he's particularly oppressive I'm just tired of Pikachu whining

Edit:

is super happy they nerfed ZSS too

 

[Nobie]

Mythra has really bizarre aerial mobility because she's fast as heck in the air, but she has a hard time changing directions. One thing I'm having to get used to is not being and to fade in and out while throwing out aerials the way you would with other characters, including Pyra.

Mythra also reminds me a lot of Melee Fox in the sense that it feels like you can accidentally SD at any moment. Ultimate buffer is gonna cost more than a few Mythra's a stock or two.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Can't say much about Steve's down smash change until I see a hitbox visualizer for myself. I personally don't think the change will be that big, and hopefully they don't change too much of this character going forward, Steve strikes a delicate balance where he can either be garbage or notoriously OP depending on how the team handles him.

I feel like Steve is in a pretty good place at the moment. A mix of great stuff, but also some bad stuff. I feel like I'd need offline to return to really gauge how I feel about him. Which is kinda weird, because for the other DLC characters we've gotten, I don't feel like I need offline back to say they're all around the border of top tier. But for now, I'm not wanting any buffs or nerfs for Steve. He seems like a solid character all around.

 

[Thinkaman]

ZSS up-b went from f4 to f6. Byleth up-b went from f11 to f9.

Pyra side-b is really rough to be reflected, because it dramatically extends the amount of time she can't attack--and unlike Pyra herself, they can combo you out of the move. At least it cannot be Pocketed.

Mythra has really bizarre aerial mobility because she's fast as heck in the air, but she has a hard time changing directions. One thing I'm having to get used to is not being and to fade in and out while throwing out aerials the way you would with other characters, including Pyra.

Speed Shulk!

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Anyone have their stats up?

 

[StrangeKitten]

Anyone have their stats up?

Going by the scale in Mushroom Kingdom, Mythra seems like either same weight as Lucina or close to, and Pyra is heavier

 

[Kiligar]

Ike.
ZSS nerfs, Palutena nerfs, Min Min nerfs, insignificant joker nerfs but we take what we can get. Literally all of his worst matchups have been nerfed.

Chrom.
Palutena is easier for him, he already beat ZSS so now he beat her harder, everything else we take those. Pichu matchup is probably slightly harder, depends on how significant that nair change was. As for Roy, Pichu is even more unwinnable RIP, and none of his losing matchups got nerfed (the joker nerfs were a joke).

Corrin got some of her poorer matchups nerfed and they’re a decent character but have no rep with cosmos using Pyra.

Lucina is more or less the same.

Byleth is too slow. But will be very annoying online. Maybe they’re high tier at this point but may still be in upper mid tier.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Looking like Mythra is 92 units of weight, and Pyra 97. This could be off by 1 but that doesn't really make much difference.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Corrin got some of her poorer matchups nerfed and they’re a decent character but have no rep with cosmos using Pyra.

Yeah, although Pyra/Mythra might be a losing MU for her: Obviously it's very early meta but my initial thoughts is that Corrin loses the MU. Losing Cosmos as a main really hurts Corrin though, with her currently best active main is Ly in Japan. Corrin is probably doomed to be underrated unless she gets buffed, or some top player decides to pick her up (seems unlikely unless she gets buffed). I imagine many Corrin mains will be tempted to switch to some other character instead.

I still maintain that she could be top 30, but it's hard to keep excited about a character no top player seems to care much about. Kept put her in top 30 in his recent tier list, so that's cool, getting some respect at least. Cosmos said he thinks she's top 20, but he's focused on Pyra/Mythra now (who are looking pretty top tier, not gonna lie).

Seems MkLeo is interested in Pyra/Mythra. I kind of want grand finals of a major to be Tweek Sephiroth vs MkLeo Pyra/Mythra (although I suspect Tweek might go Diddy Kong, assuming Diddy beats Pyra/Mythra, Diddy is usually good vs swords though). Would be fun to see two of the recent DLC characters in grand finals at a major. Although at that point we might've gotten the final two DLC characters as well...

Anyway, overall the patch seems pretty good to me. Wario will probably fall off a lot, but he'll probably be high tier still? Still has great air speed and waft is hardly useless, even if he can't combo into it as easily. Or get raw kills with it, I suppose, slower startup applies to that too. Oh well, I think he's probably still good! I guess we'll see though.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I doubt is terribly happy with Pyra/Mythra's existence, and would probably prefer everyone forget about Byleth. This patch doesn't seem especially meaningful to him.

In other news, that janky can/smash hitbox-doubling bug was fixed.

Remains to be seen if 's generous new toy is destined for a similar fate.

Byleth was never really much of an issue for if MKLeo's and Maister's thoughts are anything to go by (heck both think G&W wins the MU). And aside from the Side B's shield stun change, there doesn't seem much about the MU that's changed.

Now Pythra? I have no clue, but based on my short time experimenting with them and - to be completely honest - a hunch:

They're gonna be scary. Like, very scary.

Them having to work around their recoveries is going to be a problem, but for me, what's selling Mythra's advantage isn't just the combo potential or her juggles, but the fact that so much of it seamlessly sets up into Pyra shenanigans. Just off of a landing (or even a rising) aerial, Mythra either:

• Pins the opponent above which lets Pyra take full advantage of her massive AoE aerials that kill (and in the case of her UAir, auto cancel in a short hop, cause why not).
• Tosses them offstage via Throw-into-Dash Attack, which lets Pyra take full advantage of her ledgetrapping and edge guarding options between her side B, neutral B, and her generously large DAir.

I feel like Mythra would be perfectly content with pressing her advantage. But I do have to wonder if switching to Pyra in advantage might be the way to go cause the girl's got a looootttt of tricks up her sleeve.

 

[Kokiden]

People reaaallly be vying for those Joker nerfs huh?

Sephiroth's Scintilla works better, so there's that at least.

 

[DougEfresh]

People reaaallly be vying for those Joker nerfs huh?

Sephiroth's Scintilla works better, so there's that at least.

Surely there are people who are "vying" for Joker nerfs (though these are typically the same folks who would rather be salty and complain for nerfs in general rather than adapting to the character(s) and learning those matchup(s)), but my impression is that most of us here in this thread have just wanted him to get a few small "slaps on the wrists" to tone down certain parts of his kit rather than being nerfed into competitive irrelevance.

Making Joker just a little more vulnerable on eiha and tetrakarn when he already has so many potent strengths and safe moves are nice QoL improvements to his opponents when fighting him, but hardly severely detrimental. There are arguably similarly small but meaningful changes he could still use (main one being a hitbox reduction size on tetrakarn/makarakarn imo), but I'd say that he's very close to being in a good spot as is if he's not there already and I doubt I'm alone in this sentiment.

 

[Thinkaman]

and had an overall claim to "best character" in the trifecta: usage, results, and theory.

Contrast with:
, the only character more used (smash.gg) than those two, but with relatively dismal results and widespread skepticism on teir lists.
, who as we all know has all the theory points but usage and results comparable to Luigi.

There is no character with top results but poor usage and widespread low tier placings. But and do have unique amazing results despite low/very low usage, and are consisted placed as top tiers by the community. Peach does too, but her numbers have been in a gradual decline? I would have been surprised by Peach nerfs, despite her being similar data-wise.

I would be curious what modern numbers look like for , who along with Palu and Joker I regarded as the 5 modern "spike characters", disproportionately played by the competitively-minded.

 

[Kokiden]

Surely there are people who are "vying" for Joker nerfs (though these are typically the same folks who would rather be salty and complain for nerfs in general rather than adapting to the character(s) and learning those matchup(s)), but my impression is that most of us here in this thread have just wanted him to get a few small "slaps on the wrists" to tone down certain parts of his kit rather than being nerfed into competitive irrelevance.

Making Joker just a little more vulnerable on eiha and tetrakarn when he already has so many potent strengths and safe moves are nice QoL improvements to his opponents when fighting him, but hardly severely detrimental. There are arguably similarly small but meaningful changes he could still use (main one being a hitbox reduction size on tetrakarn/makarakarn imo), but I'd say that he's very close to being in a good spot as is if he's not there already and I doubt I'm alone in this sentiment.

He's fine as is. I'd say even before the nerf tbh but I guess I'd be in the minority for that.

Well, as nice as it is that some would want small slaps on the wrist, pretty much none of it is within our control.

I don't play Wario or Palutena, but I heard that their's was pretty harsh. Not sure if true or not, since I don't play as them, but I'm basically bracing for the day when they gut Joker lol. It's only a matter of time I'd say.

I don't particularly trust the balance team all that much, but like I said, none of it is within our control so shrugs

 

[Thinkaman]

Minor frame data fun:

Mythra neutral-b is invincible f3-7, inclusive. Swap is 33 frames (super fast! much faster than PT's 39), invincible on frame 6 for around 12 or so frames.

Mythra has a f2 jab, Pyra is f3. Mythra standing grab is f6, Pyra is still f7.

Pyra neutral-b is fun as an ledgeguarding wall. You can footstool people out of Pyra side-b, for what little that's worth.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I don't really think Joker needs further nerfs. He's good, but imo very fair for a top tier as well. He also lacks pretty heavily in the killing department if you don't get his tight fair 1 confirms, an edgeguard that can definitely put you at risk, or a raw smash attack. I mean, even Pika will kill you at 140 but Joker's one of few characters who will have to wait a while beyond that. Of course, Arsene remedies this, but you can find yourself in a situation where you lose Arsene right when your opponent got to 110, giving them a good shot at getting a rage comeback. And none of what I've said is based solely on my own Joker play - it happened to MkLeo plenty of times back in the offline days.

Honestly, now that they've done the one nerf I've been wanting (make Waft have less true combos into it), I hope they don't touch the top tiers too much. Maybe hit Pika a bit just because it still gets so many complaints, and maybe hit GnW up B. Other than that, I'd vastly prefer buffs to the characters who aren't considered top tier.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Low tier chars like Zelda might like this patch as two of her worst match-ups got nerfed.
Maybe not significantly but at that point you gotta take what you can get.

 

[DJ3DS]

Edit: People continue talking about extremely-average-character Pikachu while ROB is burninating the countryside, both a year ago and still today. The real "winner" who escaped this patch's nerfing of his peers is our robot overlord.

Fun piece of information; the nerf to ZSS' Up B (4f -> 6f startup) has made ROBs down tilt (-5 on shield) safe. Beating her Nair with parry without getting stuffed out by jab should be much easier too. She still probably beats ROB in my opinion but these will make the matchup less frustrating. The same is true for Palutena, who was far and away his most common counter.

It remains to be seen how he feels about Pyra/Mythra. My gut feeling will be to throw them in the list of "a hassle onstage, but ROB is very good at bullying them off it" alongside the likes of Min Min and the species. They're also reasonably tall, which is bad against ROB in particular because it gives him access to item throws out of shield that are substantially faster than his usual options but won't hit the really short characters (or medium height ones who pancake a bit on their aerials).

Probably the most exciting patch for ROB since the one they accidentally gave him a wobble.

 

[WatwatBreton]

Very interesting nerfs overall, and arguably the roughest nerfs we've seen so far? We had some projectile nerfs (wolf, ivy) and a bunch of what i'd call "toning down dumb stuff" (wolf dsmash) where they adjust the numbers on some moves to make them less rewarding, but increasing landing lag and startup frames on moves feels like a new direction. Especially on spammable neutral game moves like zss nair, palu fair and palu grab, this will actively make their neutral slightly worse instead of "your reward out of a neutral win is now slightly worse", which is how most nerfs happened so far (except Pichu, who just got buffed for some reason lmao).

• seems like he'll be fine overall, Arsene counter nerf is barely relevant - it's still frame 4 and not a move you see whiffed often, partly because you're arsene you've got other things to do. Seems like a QoL change for lower players who had trouble punishing the move/toning down an arguably overtuned counter while keeping its strength. Eiha nerf seems more impactful but the move should remain safe to throw out in neutral overall (fading back eiha is such a gross neutral option), but it'll make it a bit easier to punish if you see it coming. Deserved nerfs but the character still has options for every situation and even more lol.
• man this grab range change is insane lol, especially for such a grab centric character (at least how nairo plays her). That coupled with her neutral being a tiny bit less safe overall should have interesting repercussions - it hurts more to have 3 of your main buttons nerfed when your character has like, 5 to begin with.
• nair change seems big, especially since it might affect combo potential. The core of the character (camp camp camp) still functions though and flip kick is still an abomination so she might be fine.
• heck they didn't go half handed on this haha XD absolutely deserved though that character's results were absolutely indecent and I don't think having guaranteed waft combos is healthy game design (it'd be so much cooler as a read tool like mac). Seems like the harshest nerf of the bunch and they didn't even go the palu route of giving him a few tools to compensate (like a dsmash buff or sth), curious to see where he'll end up - especially for a character with that much top player representation.

A good patch for overall. While not hard losing matchups by any mean Wario and zss were amongst his most suspicious top tier matchup (tl,dr they can camp better than him and he hates that). Palu being less safe overall is amazing for a character that thrives on punishing whiffs (even though that matchup was very decent already).

Also I'm happy to see that they nerfed the 4 chararacters who had the best shot at the "#1 character" throne. Unless you still think that pika 0 -> 50 loops are any more impressive than insert top tier character 0 -> 50 bread and butters because they feel worse to play against ( Thinkaman I love what you do please keep posting anti-pika propaganda it's very refreshing).

 

[Spinosaurus]

The waft changes would've been enough, not sure why they gutted utilt like that.

ZSS is gonna play way campier now and that sucks, actually.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

From the perspective of someone who only rarely plays as Wario, and more often plays against him, he's been one of my more dreaded characters to face. While he does have an eh neutral, he makes up for it with his fast airspeed, robust combo game, and heavy weight in combination with a very good recovery. You ain't killing Wario any time soon, which pretty much guarantees him at least one Waft per game, if not two. Wario also had loads of true setups into Waft, a move that kills ridiculously early. Also no, it wasn't just a handful of players winning reliably with the character. He was one of, if not the most-picked character among top competitors. For as much as people complain about Pika and Joker, before quarantine forced us into online, you typically only saw ESAM and kinda Captain L for Pika, and MkLeo and Zackray doing well with Joker. Meanwhile Wario had Kameme, Abadango, Tweek, Glutonny, and kinda Mata-door. I've also heard Wario was picked very often in Japan prior to things being mostly online. Do you only play online? Because if so, Wario is a character who gets hurt a lot by online, but is a menace offline. If it seemed like only a handful of players played him, that speaks more to Ultimate's diversity and less to Wario not being that good.

I don't touch Ultimate online because it sucks.

That kinda just suggests they only noticed it because of Japanese players where Ultimate's online sucks less.

If it's about diversity, then 3 and a half top players is not that many either. Fox is oversaturated by that logic.

• heck they didn't go half handed on this haha XD absolutely deserved though that character's results were absolutely indecent and I don't think having guaranteed waft combos is healthy game design (it'd be so much cooler as a read tool like mac). Seems like the harshest nerf of the bunch and they didn't even go the palu route of giving him a few tools to compensate (like a dsmash buff or sth), curious to see where he'll end up - especially for a character with that much top player representation.

Not really. Little Mac can still guaranteed combo into KO Punch, KO Punch has way better and more convenient UI that doesn't demand a ton of game sense to keep track of and at least he has way more moves that aren't outright useless like Smash attacks and jab. Half of Wario's toolkit is already unusable and they did nothing to compensate losing something that requires a high skill level to make use of.

 

[Lacrimosa]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[SKX31]

Very interesting nerfs overall, and arguably the roughest nerfs we've seen so far? We had some projectile nerfs (wolf, ivy) and a bunch of what i'd call "toning down dumb stuff" (wolf dsmash) where they adjust the numbers on some moves to make them less rewarding, but increasing landing lag and startup frames on moves feels like a new direction. Especially on spammable neutral game moves like zss nair, palu fair and palu grab, this will actively make their neutral slightly worse instead of "your reward out of a neutral win is now slightly worse", which is how most nerfs happened so far (except Pichu, who just got buffed for some reason lmao).

• seems like he'll be fine overall, Arsene counter nerf is barely relevant - it's still frame 4 and not a move you see whiffed often, partly because you're arsene you've got other things to do. Seems like a QoL change for lower players who had trouble punishing the move/toning down an arguably overtuned counter while keeping its strength. Eiha nerf seems more impactful but the move should remain safe to throw out in neutral overall (fading back eiha is such a gross neutral option), but it'll make it a bit easier to punish if you see it coming. Deserved nerfs but the character still has options for every situation and even more lol.
• man this grab range change is insane lol, especially for such a grab centric character (at least how nairo plays her). That coupled with her neutral being a tiny bit less safe overall should have interesting repercussions - it hurts more to have 3 of your main buttons nerfed when your character has like, 5 to begin with.
• nair change seems big, especially since it might affect combo potential. The core of the character (camp camp camp) still functions though and flip kick is still an abomination so she might be fine.
• heck they didn't go half handed on this haha XD absolutely deserved though that character's results were absolutely indecent and I don't think having guaranteed waft combos is healthy game design (it'd be so much cooler as a read tool like mac). Seems like the harshest nerf of the bunch and they didn't even go the palu route of giving him a few tools to compensate (like a dsmash buff or sth), curious to see where he'll end up - especially for a character with that much top player representation.

A good patch for overall. While not hard losing matchups by any mean Wario and zss were amongst his most suspicious top tier matchup (tl,dr they can camp better than him and he hates that). Palu being less safe overall is amazing for a character that thrives on punishing whiffs (even though that matchup was very decent already).

Also I'm happy to see that they nerfed the 4 chararacters who had the best shot at the "#1 character" throne. Unless you still think that pika 0 -> 50 loops are any more impressive than insert top tier character 0 -> 50 bread and butters because they feel worse to play against ( Thinkaman I love what you do please keep posting anti-pika propaganda it's very refreshing).

Hell, I'd argue it's a pretty good result for characters like and I'd argue who do decently vs. two or three of the characters but lose versus one or two of them. It's not going to affect their matchups that much, but Cloud not having to worry as much about Tetrakarn or Link not having to worry about Palu's grab as much is going to make those matchups at least a bit more tolerable. And now they have slightly more options vs. characters they do decently against.

The waft changes would've been enough, not sure why they gutted utilt like that.

ZSS is gonna play way campier now and that sucks, actually.

That I can agree with, but my hunch is that the up tilt nerfs were probably targeted at the more casual side of things. A lot of whom might not have much of a clue how to react to Wario Up-Tilting their shield or whatever.

That or they really wanted the Waft confirm gone for good. Considering they nerfed Diddy's Banana Peel for the second time - probably to beat and bury the dead horse known as the infinite - it honestly wouldn't surprise me.

 

[The_Bookworm]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Huh. That is a bit more significant than I expected.
At least it makes a lot more sense animation-wise. It is no longer disgustingly disjointed.
Does anyone know if dash and pivot grabs were affected? They feel the same as before.

 

[Untouch]

WFT's header has had 5 frames shaved off the landing lag randomly, opening up multiple TOD combos.
https://twitter.com/beni_ssb/status/1367736503686762496
It isn't even a glitch, but just something they didn't mention.
It's such a huge change the WFT discord is saying it's probably not going to stay.


edit: https://twitter.com/ideallyinvy/status/1367719269509828608
It is a glitch, or rather unintended side effect of fixing another glitch.

 

[Nah]

Huh. That is a bit more significant than I expected.
At least it makes a lot more sense animation-wise. It is no longer disgustingly disjointed.
Does anyone know if dash and pivot grabs were affected? They feel the same as before.

The patch notes specifically mentioned the "normal" grab, so I take it that means her dash and pivot grabs were untouched.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Those Wario hits hurt but like the character still has all those other traits that make him good. Top tier air mobility, good damage output with plenty of combo routes (don’t know how much the up tilt change affects things). Some of the best survivablity in Ultimate when you combine his weight, air speed and recovery methods and it’s not like he can’t kill without waft. I don’t deny making him fish more for kills doesn’t hurt a lot, it does, but like it’s not like he just can’t take stocks without it. Removing the ability to flat out win because you managed to land one of your many moves that lead into your 30% kill move is plenty fine. Other characters with “I win buttons” didn’t have anywhere near the ease of guaranteeing they connected like Wario did.

Those Joker nerfs really don’t hurt that much, if they wanted to actually do anything they should had shrank the size of Tetrakarn’s activation hitbox, just don’t think you should be able to stand on ledge and get free kills because the activation box is so large up b’s with hitboxes will hit it up there. Making whiffed counters a bit more punishable is fine and doesn’t change much. Eiha when used properly is still safe, a few added frames of lag won’t stop him from using it. (For reference it’s still faster than PKF on the ground and joker can position himself a lot better than Ness when using grounded side b) Eiagon is also still as good as ever.

Will be interested to see how the Palu and ZSS nerfs affect things more than anything. Her fair was honestly her best aerial but she still has her other just as strong aerials and can do all the usual Palu nonsense with them. Grab is finally reasonably sized, don’t know why they felt the need to give her a grab that much larger than everyone else’s in the first place for really no reason. ZSS is going to camp more so idk what the nair change was accomplishing when it’s still absurdly safe on shield. The boost kick change I liked more as the power on that move off a frame four activation was a bit much.

 

[duxx]

I'm honestly interested to see if void picks pichu back up again after the buffs

 

[Frihetsanka]

I'm honestly interested to see if void picks pichu back up again after the buffs

Doesn't sound like it.

 

[Thinkaman]

Let's put it this way. Using our last good data as a reference, Wario's aggregate results could be cut in more than half, and he would :

• Have similar usage and results as
• Have results that still surpass overplayed/underperfoming characters like
• Still make the top 20, or at least 25

He's on an extremely high perch, so high that a huge fall could still put him in the upper quartile.

Note that this is also true, results-wise, for Palu/Joker and to a lesser extent ZSS. It just stands out less on them because they have such higher usage. (Joker getting nerfed to "Ness level" is not the same as Wario getting nerfed to "Shulk level"...)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy's Banana apparently got nerfed. How bad was it? Haven't played yet. I don't think it will be too much of an issue, but it totally wasn't needed. Diddy is far from broken.

 

[Thinkaman]

Diddy's Banana apparently got nerfed. How bad was it? Haven't played yet. I don't think it will be too much of an issue, but it totally wasn't needed. Diddy is far from broken.

They just extended the banana rapid-repeat cooldown slightly again, not relevant to normal gameplay.

Clearly they just found some edge case where the infinite was still possible. No one is plotting to nerf Diddy Kong.

 

[Firox]

Looking like Mythra is 92 units of weight, and Pyra 97. This could be off by 1 but that doesn't really make much difference.

Huh. Imagine shedding a few pounds just by switching personalities. She's an inspiration to overweight DID patients everywhere.

 

[Thinkaman]

Pyra is 98, same as Mario, Mythra is 92, same as Villager.

Sword made of burning metal, sword filled with light.

 

[Kiligar]

I don't really think Joker needs further nerfs. He's good, but imo very fair for a top tier as well. He also lacks pretty heavily in the killing department if you don't get his tight fair 1 confirms, an edgeguard that can definitely put you at risk, or a raw smash attack. I mean, even Pika will kill you at 140 but Joker's one of few characters who will have to wait a while beyond that. Of course, Arsene remedies this, but you can find yourself in a situation where you lose Arsene right when your opponent got to 110, giving them a good shot at getting a rage comeback. And none of what I've said is based solely on my own Joker play - it happened to MkLeo plenty of times back in the offline days.

Honestly, now that they've done the one nerf I've been wanting (make Waft have less true combos into it), I hope they don't touch the top tiers too much. Maybe hit Pika a bit just because it still gets so many complaints, and maybe hit GnW up B. Other than that, I'd vastly prefer buffs to the characters who aren't considered top tier.

Tetrakarn is too big. What mattered was the hitbox not the lag. I shouldn’t be getting punished for using tipper Corrin F smash from that distance. Only Min Min can reliably beat his counter with long range attacks. That counter is too big. The joker nerfs were basically irrelevant. The counter is free edgegaurding against half the cast without so much as bumping two brain cells together.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Still want more nerfs for hope they nerf her into oblivion

 

[Diddy Kong]

They just extended the banana rapid-repeat cooldown slightly again, not relevant to normal gameplay.

Clearly they just found some edge case where the infinite was still possible. No one is plotting to nerf Diddy Kong.

They better wouldn't now he's finally actually viable again. I might actually quit Smash if they did. But thanks!!

 

[Thinkaman]

The Little Mac QoL-ish change is curious--u-smash remains active for 1 more frame.

The arm is still up at this point, such that it will never enable Mac to hit someone behind him. But it's past the apex, so it also won't provide any additional coverage of someone on a platform above Mac.

It's a very strange and weirdly specific tweak whose purpose is not clear to me. It's obviously not a "buff", but I can't guess what problem is being targeted.

Edit: And to be clear, it's also not a case of just "someone noticed it looked off, it bugged them, so they fixed it. That end of the strike motion is very clearly frame 14, and while extending it to 15 by no means looks bad or wrong, no one would go out of their way to extend the hitbox to it without a specific reason.

 

[Big O]

The Little Mac QoL-ish change is curious--u-smash remains active for 1 more frame.

The arm is still up at this point, such that it will never enable Mac to hit someone behind him. But it's past the apex, so it also won't provide any additional coverage of someone on a platform above Mac.

It's a very strange and weirdly specific tweak whose purpose is not clear to me. It's obviously not a "buff", but I can't guess what problem is being targeted.

Edit: And to be clear, it's also not a case of just "someone noticed it looked off, it bugged them, so they fixed it. That end of the strike motion is very clearly frame 14, and while extending it to 15 by no means looks bad or wrong, no one would go out of their way to extend the hitbox to it without a specific reason.

Hitbox interpolation would mean that at the very least, it hits where it used to for an extra frame. So if his last active frame pre-patch hit above the platforms, the buff makes it hit above the platforms for an extra frame.