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Let me know when this character releases cuz i want to grind my baby pyra
— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) March 4, 2021
Neither seem to have super-great recovery options (depending on the air speed, however) and they might be susceptible to gimps. There's also the question of how light / heavy they'll be, Myhtra will likely have the better recovery since she has Photon Edge in conjuction with her Up B, but Photon Edge could be reactable to depending on how much shield damage it deals.
mid screen at 100%, and he isn't even a lightweight), she almost always seems like the preferred choice for those last-hit trade situations.
Pyra obviously doesn't look as fast but have some perspective - this looks like a character with Ganon tier power and hitboxes with all around better normals and an Up B that would make Ike blush.
Oh, how I wish this were true... Lots of people tier them separately. Also in MU charts. It's going to happen.
I did mention in a post later on with similar observations: Pyra/Mythra does indeed solve a lot of the issues that plague the transformation characters prior to Ultimate.
You just keep spittin facts and I am here for it.
It's going to depend on whether she can recover after or not, but if she can just walk off the ledge and use this (similarly to how ROB can, though often doesn't because of his onstage options) that's something to be scared of.
NairWizard
Mythra's startup on moves seems somewhat comparable to Lucina/Corrin/Roy/Chrom, Pyra's somewhat comparable to Ike's. Given that Mythra has great speed and Pyra probably kills well that sounds somewhat promising. Probably better than Lucina, probably one of the best sword characters overall would be my guess. She'll drop soon so we'll see more then. Looks like a potential top 10 character to me, although it's of course possible that she got nerfed since the Sakurai reveal build.
The most distinctive thing about ZSS compared to the rest of the cast isn't Flip Jump.Can you name something comparable to Flip Jump in Mythra's tools?
Not every stronger-but-slower semiclone needs to do twice as much damage as the weaker-but-faster character. Different fighters get balanced in different ways.
The duo looks busted. Mythra's supposed issue is that she can't kill. But she can just go Pyra and get a kill. So long as Pyra is not unusable garbage and you are stuck using Mythra (which with those moves I doubt), the two of them are High Tier for free. Maybe top tier.
I agree they look strong but this logic is simplifying it a bit too much. Pokemon Trainer has the same logic "rack up damage as squirtle/ivy then kill as ivy/zard" which is strong in theory but more difficult in practice. Pyra standalone does look better than Zard, but she looks like she has pretty exploitable defenses. Mythra looks solid all around except for lacking kill options, and probably has similar defensive issues as Pyra with a better disadvantage from being faster. As we've seen with other characters like Pichu and Sheik, good frame data is nice but does not automatically propel a character into top tier.
Besides low killpower, low damage per hit is an issue if you wind up trading or facing characters your combos are not as consistent on. She is also a faster faller which means, unless Mythra's weight is significantly lower to offset it (which would open another issue of frailty), she may actually be more susceptible to getting comboed than Pyra is. Finally, while her mobility is an asset in this department, Mythra doesn't seem to have any particularly good answers to camping; we've seen how easily a projectile can stuff Photon Edge, Lightning Buster takes a full charge to get good range, and both her up specials could be blocked by platforms used as shelter. Pyra, at least, can use Blazing End to keep zoners honest at a reasonable distance, while her greater range and power help with projectile clashing.
Comparing Charizard to Pyra is weird, I don't see their playstyles being similar most of the time. Sure, they both have not so good frame data that limits how much pressure they can exert in neutral, but Charizard actually moves very fast and has very good recovery on his own, the former encouraging him to make the most of any openings he manages to get and the latter enhancing survivability even more, making him a character prone to snowballing with the right reads, especially at high rage percents. Pyra does not really do anything like that; she seems more designed to work in tandem with Mythra, patiently conditioning and defending against opponents to wait for openings for Mythra to exploit, and vice-versa providing strong finishers to combos Mythra starts.
I wasn't trying to directly compare Pyra to Charizard. I was just trying to argue that Pyra/Mythra isn't necessarily broken just because she can rack up damage as Mythra then close ko's with Pyra, because Pkmn trainer functions on a similar premise and isn't broken.
I mean, the Nair might have a weakness we just haven't see yet. It could be like Pit/Ivy's Nairs and be laggy and unsafe if you don't do it rising, in which case it'll still be really good but still uncomparable to Smash 4 Cloud's.
That's definitely true. Guess I'll have to start labbing once Pythra comes out.
That would kind of run counter to the notion of Mythra having better frame data on everything, wouldn't it? I think it's more likely that the move has a worse hitbox than it appears, or at least has trouble connecting properly if not close enough. Meanwhile Pyra can just barely graze someone at the tip of her nair and they still take a full hit; remember, the other thing Pyra has over Mythra is range.
