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There's a footnote at the very bottom that says "Falling in place means when the fighter gets hit with a certain attack and falls down to the ground slowly in that spot." So...crumple, I guess? File that under "I didn't even know this was different among characters."
| Ganondorf | Up Special | Reduced vulnerability after hitting an opponent. |
And a nerf to
's arsene counter as well as 's standing grab (both of which were pretty dumb). There wasn't much to this patch overall, but at least on paper, I definitely think this was a solid one as well!
I kind of expected this would be the patch to nerf top tiers. Shulk and Pikachu managed to avoid nerfs though, and a few others.
Not near it. F-tilt still nerfed, f-smash still nerfed, several moves still have more self-damage. These buffs are nice but Pichu is still pretty far from where he was back before 3.1.0. Still, the buffs help him so that's cool. As someone who likes watching Pichu I approve of these buffs.
What a shock! G&W too.
player, she's going to be SCARY. DAir/Dsmash were already plenty powerful. Side special having less vulnerability removes its big weakness that keeps players from spamming it. Buffing up special might let it bounce opponents off the ground for more followups or even KOs.
Dash Attack: FAF 38 -> 41 Forward Air: 7 frames of landing lag -> 9 Eiha: FAF 50 -> 53 Tetrakarn (Whiffed): FAF 54 -> 57 Neutral Air: 6 frames of landing lag -> 8 Boost Kick: frame 4 -> 6 Wario Waft (Max Charge): frame 9 -> 12 Wario Waft (Level 3): frame 5 -> 8
Weaker lasers mean the positional advantage Min-Min gets from them on stage is not as big, and makes it harder to dislodge ledge defenders. Curious about cutting fsmash hold time though, was it longer than others? Does it mean she can't build up as much power from it? I suppose that change was made to make on-stage edgeguarding less flexible.
I do wonder what the air dodge change's about as well. If it's a nerf she's going to wind up relying on N-Air more, and honestly, that's possibly a nerf in itself since people will from now on know what to expect in disadvantage situations.
That one sounds like it was done to make it a bit more risky to use (whether using it from a bury or an up-air string). I could be wrong, though.
gets the raw deal again after watching characters like Ness, Sonic and Cloud get buffs Testing out some of the frame data nerfs; changes I'm finding so far:
Didn't test out UTilt nerfs, but the Waft changes on their own already look huge. Eiha and Palu dash attack nerfs also seem pretty noteworthy as well.
Boost Kick nerf feels really random tbh lol.
was easily one of the best characters in the game and boost kick was one of the best KO moves. F4 BK, faster than many characters can jab, was ridiculous. It's still a great move but this hurts ZSS quite a bit. OoS went from amazing to very good and she can't BK to follow up paralyzer and bury as fast.
Her new shortened FSmash is uniquely different from other characters. She has to commit to an FSmash about two whole seconds sooner compared to the rest of the cast.
It doesn't neccesarily go against the design philosophy - a character with good frame data can still have small weak points where they're not as safe. And it seems I was right - Mythra's got just enough landing lag on a landing Nair to keep her from spamming it.
Bruh...
They both have less endlag after hitting opponents after up B, which helps out against anti-check teching attempts. A good bunch of its attacks got less recoil damage. This includes forward smash, forward air, forward throw, Skull Bash, and Agility. Gordo Toss got a nice buff. It has received less endlag, now has a greater chance of sticking to the walls, and Gordos reflected by the opponent can now be reflected back at a greater speed. Since Gordo Toss is a big part of Dedede's gameplan, any adjustment to it is nice. Byleth got some nice adjustments. They made down smash and down air even stronger, as if it they weren't already strong enough. Down air deals even more shield damage, which I guess it's cool? They once again increased the amount of time it takes for Diddy to pull out another banana after throwing one. I don't really see the point of this change considering that the infinite was already removed. I don't see this doing anything. They made Mii Gunner's forward smash have more range. Thanks, I guess? His down smash now has slightly more range. His counter now has better multi-hit consistency. I have seen a few strange instances of his counter acting weird, so I guess this should help out in that regard. Neutral air now has more landing lag and Boost Kick has more startup. Nair by itself without landing is -2 on shield, so I don't really see how 2 more frames is going to affect things too much (frame 9 landing lag is still fast). Boost Kick going from frame 4 to frame 6 is a bit more notable, but I think it is still going to be a solid OoS option. Wario got a HUGE nerf this patch. Up tilt's hitbox doesn't linger quite as much. I don't really know how significant this change is, but I personally don't think it affects things too much. The Waft nerf, however, is more significant. Waft now has more startup for both half-charge and full-waft, which pretty much neuters a lot of the traditional combos into Waft. Up air still combos into it, but up tilt no longer does. Palutena got a few nerfs. Dash attack got quite a bit more endlag (FAF 38 -> 41). It makes the move slightly more risky to throw out, but considering that the move is already -21 on shield, I don't really see this changing too much. Similar to ZSS, forward air got two more frames of landing lag. Fair by itself without landing is -3 (pre-patch). I could see some niche scenarios play out differently, but I don't think this changes too much. Joker's counter (Arsene) has more endlag. Smart change considering how ridiculous the counter is when landed, so increasing the risk of using it is nice. I would've preferred if they instead nerfed Tetrakarn's hitbox size instead. But overall not very significant. Min Min's forward smash has received two changes: she cannot charge it for as long as other forward smashes, and the Dragon's lasers deal less knockback. Again, I don't really how this really affects the character. Most Min Min players don't even use max charge forward smashes.I don't think
and especially were performing that well in tournaments to warrant nerfs, and online has put in the backburner for now. did not get any nerfs.The Ganon up B buff is for tech-checking and that alone. It is still only a ok OoS option at best, since it is still frame 14 with an awkward hitbox to land.
Up B change is far more significant than I expected. Thankfully upon further testing, I don't think the Wario nerfs isn't quite as severe as I initially thought. (sadly no Mythra stock icon yet), she seems very exciting. As I anticipated, the two possesses their own glaring weaknesses, but the two covers eachother's weaknesses exceptionally well, leading to such a fresh dynamic. Overall pretty positive on the character competitive wise so far.
The_Bookworm
The fsmash buff for Gunner got rid of the blind spot right in front of Gunner. It's a good quality of life buff. With Palutena's grab nerf, Gunner has the best standing grab in the game without question.
Nerfing a move that has no easy visual meter or cues, requiring a ton of game sense to rely on, a combo in DAir to Waft that is situational from requiring rage and/or high percentages, a combo you could already mash out of without it being buffered with sweetspot UTilt to Waft and UAir hitbox being as tight as it is making it hard to fastfall or land with all on a character with no range, no approach tools like they used to have, no more projectile options like they used to have and an overall very high skill ceiling that only a handful of players reliably won with the character.
Comboing into Waft was never that easy unless you landed the soutlrspot of UTilt, which wasn't that easy. Calling it braindead is extremely out of line.
compared to mythra, which is actually the opposite of how I thought it would be. The slower movement speed really doesn't matter so much when everything just hits like a truck, and it makes her a blast to play.
From the perspective of someone who only rarely plays as Wario, and more often plays against him, he's been one of my more dreaded characters to face. While he does have an eh neutral, he makes up for it with his fast airspeed, robust combo game, and heavy weight in combination with a very good recovery. You ain't killing Wario any time soon, which pretty much guarantees him at least one Waft per game, if not two. Wario also had loads of true setups into Waft, a move that kills ridiculously early. Also no, it wasn't just a handful of players winning reliably with the character. He was one of, if not the most-picked character among top competitors. For as much as people complain about Pika and Joker, before quarantine forced us into online, you typically only saw ESAM and kinda Captain L for Pika, and MkLeo and Zackray doing well with Joker. Meanwhile Wario had Kameme, Abadango, Tweek, Glutonny, and kinda Mata-door. I've also heard Wario was picked very often in Japan prior to things being mostly online. Do you only play online? Because if so, Wario is a character who gets hurt a lot by online, but is a menace offline. If it seemed like only a handful of players played him, that speaks more to Ultimate's diversity and less to Wario not being that good.
So it'll be like Cloud and Chrom, where you expect their recovery to be really bad, but good air stats saves em.
; he has been far and away the most overperformant character relative to his usage for this game's entire life--at one time, arguably 3 of the top 10 players used him in a majority of their sets. They must REALLY be targeting the tippy top of the player base to go after Wario. Then again ZSS is statistically comparable, and this is the second time she has been lightly chided.
are all low-key winners this patch. possibly too nerfed, and honestly I think Palu and Wario's nerfs are signfigant enough to drop them down in the tier list.
