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Not one bit, I don't think. Because I'm pretty sure what they meant by that was, getting hit by attacks like Focus and Skewer that send you into a slow knockdown. I watched Beefy Smash Doods video on it and it looks like the characters affected can now act the slightest bit sooner, but it's not enough to make any difference.
It's about crumple, you know, when getting hit by Focus Attack or Skewer. Apparantly not every character had the same length of the animation so they just standardized it, the fact nobody seemed to notice there was a difference suggests that it doesn't change much, if anything
I've been mainly playing Pyra for a while. Surprisingly, I think Pyra is actually pretty good in the Snake matchup. Side B is nice for limiting Snake's options due to popping grenades and controlling space on the ground. It also makes the Min Min matchup tolerable to an extent. I wouldn't claim she wins by any stretch of the imagination, but Side B makes the matchup go from hellish to at least workable, although you'd likely just go Mythra against her instead.
I'd just like to mention some of the interesting behaviour on Blazing End; it seems the move is only considered a projectile while it is moving forward, and the moment it stops in place it instead seems to become a stationary, transcendent hitbox. During the travel time it hits rather low, and I've noticed that the shotos Ryu & Ken seem to be able to fly over it with their hurricane kicks. And as a final tip mentioned in the game, there's a Wolf-like melee hitbox at the start.
I went online with villager yesterday, and the matchup was brutal for me. pyra's side b pretty much walled me out completely due to me not being able to get in with lloids, and having my slingshots eaten up wasnt much fun either. In addition to this, my stubby range on things like u tilt, nair, and f tilt made it near impossible to start combos or set up for jab locks
Speaking of, were you not able to pocket Blazing End at all? Obviously you can't when the move stops being a projectile at it's destination, but what about during it's travel? I could also see this being an exception so as to not leave Pyra completely defenceless for long periods of time...
Come to think of it, Villager/Isabelle do probably hate them. Buzzing around at slingshot range isn't a winning plan, and while most ranged characters have either dominant projectiles to answer Pyra side-b -OR- a reflector, Villager/Isabelle's normally superior "reflector" does not apply. Timber is also of no help, and Lloid trap I'm assuming gets eaten by a number of options for either of them.
The more recent tier lists by pros with Wario not in the top tiers anymore suggests otherwise and they responded in a horrible way to boot as said 40% kill setup wouldn't even be as much of an issue if they removed the stupid crutch mechanic of rage and reduced the knockback, and charge time to make it more of a pseudo Smash attack combo akin to Project M since the Smash attacks he has in Ultimate currently suck so hard on top of the setup still requiring a ton of skill and game sense to properly make use of with less convenient UI than characters like Villager and Robin that for whatever reason get the privilege of more convenient UI for their unique abilities.
Buff KO Punch to not be lost at the drop of a feather and the character is more justified and less terrible and if the game had edgehogging instead of autosnapping letting so many recoveries come back for free safely, edggeguarding would be less of an issue. No reason for both characters to be more frustrating and unenjoyable than they already are in a game where so many characters are already frustrating and unenjoyable.
Tried out with my Cloud. Of course, I'm just an Elite Smash player at the 9,1 million GSP range (I face those at the top, 9,2 million, pretty often), so what I can say will not say much at all - it's WiFi at the end of the day. Still:
Speaking of that, I found Pyra difficult to use against Hero. He just finds a lot of opportunities to get Bounce up and he just walls you out easily with superior mobility and Zap spells. I'd definitely leave the heavy lifting to Mythra for that matchup.
Of course. I need to test it out a bit more, but as a
main I’ve noticed Wonder Wing come out a bit faster when challenged during free fall. Probably is nothing.
). He softlocked the game if we won a game in Classic mode with his final smash. His final smash had the potential to KO the opponent twice and potentially create zombie characters with no stocks. He had a Freeze Glitch with Nana by using Buster Wolf. She had the ability to be stuck in T-Pose on command. His blocks sometimes caused opponents to fall through the stage (+ much more). Shadow Flare in conjunction with Pokemon Trainer broke every single visual animation in the game. This might still be in the game. Fully-charged Waft received a fairly significant buff to its super armor. As we all know, Header pretty much got all of its landing lag removed, now only having the universal 4 frames of landing lag. Not a shadow change, but there is something I like to mention.
Huh, thanks!
This is theory based on playing as the Ras and against them as lv9 CPUs, which are much worse than people.
Wolf's blaster is extremely useful but this is bad for Wolf for the same reason Chrom is hard for him. Wolf is usually good vs swordies due to his great airspeed but Mythra is faster. She basically can create a circle around her representing hitboxes that is extremely hard to get past. Wolf's usually good at midrange but Pyra and Mythra's side Bs both control this area extremely well. It's very hard for wolf to get in. probably does the best of all my characters because he has projectiles that Mythra has to get around. Up close she out ranges and out buttons him hard. I can see this as even or slightly in Ra's favor. loses. His projectiles and mobility aren't enough to keep Mythra out and she out buttons him. Seriously, who thought giving Myth amazing mobility and frame data with a sword was a good idea? Like I said with Wolf, she basically is this fast moving circle of pain. She destroys Link in disadvantage. get bopped around like beach balls; there's not much else to say. Although K.Rool does have much better tools than the other 2. has the same problem as Link; Mythra is faster in both mobility and frame data. Byleth by nature can explode her advantage with strong kill power off a good read.
), one good character () and three somewhat underwhelming characters. When offline comes back the meta is gonna look quite a bit different than it did a year ago and I'm excited to see it.I'd argue thatI know there's still two characters to go but I must say that I'm impressed how much better on average the Fighter Pass 2 characters are viability wise compared compared to the first. You can make a case for all of them being at least high tier while the first pass only had one great character (
's a good character as well
He's a rough one to place. His neutral is somewhat rough because he doesn't have great mobility and the frame data on his normals is bad, but his projectiles are really good and he can get a lot of great stuff from his Menu. And he severely lacks representation, so we have little data to go off of. Hope to see Salem's Hero when offline comes back, because he's the only one I've seen push the character and demonstrate his strengths to their fullest.I'd argue that
Prominence Revolt feels stronger than that to me, though at times I wonder if the edge of the pillar is less powerful. Oftentimes you will have the assistance of platforms.
Seems I've been out of the loop pretty long and only went by Tweek (The one that actually plays the character) putting him in #10 so that's my own fault for being ignorant towards a game I haven't had any reason to play and still don't.
's low-grade armor on tilts is enough to tank a single Photon Edge swipe and punch Mythra in the face, should the two collide within those 3 frames. Not very important. bombs can interrupt Photon Edge; most important for Snake. can side-b through both Photon Edge and Blazing End. This isn't something they would be doing in the neutral, but it's an alternative option to shield or down-b I suppose. (And a lethal one, so worth noting) Flare Blitz should similarly destroy either move, though I haven't tested it yet. now we're getting to the good stuff: is also a star. Kart armor beats both Photon Edge and Blazing End cleanly, a big win for him. What's more, Mechas on the field interrupt Photon Edge, which is great. Two moves that Jr. wants to be doing all the time anyway are super applicable. has it rough. Other projectiles beat Photon Edge, but the dog is not so lucky. Can is not made for this at all, nor Gunmen--you can make them work, but it's not great. Disc is the saving grace, but it's not a consistent win and you have to be ahead of them for any hope of winning the interaction. crown armor shines--sure, any projectile normally wins here, but K Rool can be late and still win. wins more than you might think. Only the final hits of either side-b can destroy trap--Photon Edge will otherwise get interrupted! With Pyra, at the range to destroy the trap, Isabelle will be unable to Pocket the sword; she'll have to call it out and jump forward past the safety of her mine with Pocket as Pyra goes for it. And of course, Fishing Rod beats Photon Edge cleanly, just like Wonderwing and Buster Wolf and Octoslash and... Revenge works against Photon Edge, what did you expect. I've used Cross Chop armor to beat both Photon Edge and Burning End in actual play, but that's more of a hard read than these other things being discussed. Ptooie will typically fall on Mythra during Photon Edge, as it does to many aggressive approaches. Nothing unique, but relevant. Wonderwing behaves as duh, obviously a lethal callout to anything. deserves special mention as someone whose normal moves break the rules of mid-range to begin with.
frame data in his Pyra video.
docs.google.com
I'm not saying that she should be stronger than that or anything considering her range and how safe certain moves. It's just a general trend I noticed playing as or against her. Neutral B is really good for intercepting certain recoveries and is good enough in those cases. But there's a lot of matchups where it feels like either I can't kill with her at 150%, or I'm surviving against her at around 150% or higher.
You haven't touched on it, but ROB's gyro doesn't stop Photon Edge. It sadly gets carried with the move and thrown elsewhere, which makes it somewhat dangerous in this matchup as Mythra has a powerful callout for it..
I'm not really sure how K Rool is an appropriate parallel. He has subsequently been buffed to the point I'd argue that he's better than at release yet still doesn't have results remotely comparable to what Wario consistently gets.
Ridley seems to do just fine against them in my experience. Especially against Pyra.This is theory based on playing as the Ras and against them as lv9 CPUs, which are much worse than people.
First I have to say Mythra's advantage state is crazy; she's so fast and has Lucina like aerials in range making her one of the hardest characters to land against. Someone earlier said she has the best advantage state in the game.
I talk a lot about Mythra because she's by far the hardest one to deal with but Pyra's not bad at all. SideB is excellent for controlling midrange and hard to punish. She's also been described as Ganon with a sword and kills much sooner than she should. Using Pyra to seal stocks takes away the closest thing to a weakness Mythra has.
People who doubt this character's busted are in denial.
I'm pretty sure that Waft has been complained about at all levels of play, so I don't think that this is a case of like....whiny noobs cried until Daddy Sakurai gave them what they wanted. And personally, I don't think that moves like Waft and KO Punch and all that should even exist.
If Sephiroth was accurate to source material he wouldn't need to tag a target with a beam to get Shadow Flare orbs circling, and would be super-heavy to simulate his ridiculous boss endurance. Also Steve being great isn't a sure thing as of yet.
Yeah, I just assumed gyro, header ball, and Gordos lose to these things like they would to any hitbox. Cause for concern for all three characters, but ROB in particular is probably not impacted much.
Funny, I think it's actually the opposite - I feel often other sword characters do not deal well with Mythra's overall speed and juggling potential, often having to retreat to the corner due to a lack of good protective lower hitboxes. I've found it easy to get in on swords and force options out of them in disadvantage by mixing between empty hops, uair and rising fair.
She can spot dodge cancel. I think gimr just miscounted. Her regular spot dodge is around 31 frames, and she can cancel into an attack after around frame 25. She does have worse dodge data though.
Wouldn't Little Mac prefer to Jolt Haymaker over Blazing End instead? I already mentioned that it only hits low moving forward.I've been testing various interactions, perhaps to atone for my hasty error on Pocket.
Specifically I was looking for "things that interact (beat) either/both Mythra and Pyra side-b." We've talked about how Photon Rush can be a free 20% for simple callouts, but what characters have neutral tools (or potential neutral tools) that throw a monkey wrench into that?
Obviously, any projectile--especially meaty--stuffs Photon Edge, any reflector beats Blazing End, and there's always shield or jumping for both, when available. I'm talking strictly about other, unique options that might be overlooked.
Straight Lunge appears really good against Mythra, probably the best matchup in the game for this usually situational-at-best move. Mythra's entire deal revolves around low damage combo starters that Lunge's weak f1 armor covers. Of Mythra's entire moveset, almost nothing breaks Lunge! Uniquely, Photon Edge has such a long animation that it allows Mac to continue building armor such that he can armor the entire thing! (And then delete Mythra on release) The key is that unlike other characters who rely on lots of low-damage moves, Mythra doesn't have an attractive grab.
Lunge is also more usable than usual against Pyra, as it can tank her up-b, up-smash (grounded scoop hit), and is generally an answer against Blazing End.
If you've got your opponent scared, shielding and waiting for Mythra to make a move, why not swap to Pyra with the momentum-carrying swap to use something like Flame Nova and threaten that?
So wait, you barely even play Ultimate? I'm now wondering how much Wario you've played, and if you've ever had to play around the threat of Waft, because having to do so was not fun. My apologies if you know this already, but let's take a deep look at Ultimate Wario specifically:
DrCoeloCephalo
, I hope this all helps you realize what a strong character Wario is in Ultimate's meta. I'm sorry you don't love that he has lost strong tools he had in Brawl, but quite frankly, he's a menace in his own right in Ultimate.
