COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Frogles]

Has anybody else tried playing with items? I don't know which codes are doing it, but one or more of them are making some items useless. Screwattack, assist trophies, and hammers don't do a thing anymore. You can't pick up another item if you pick up an assist trophy or hammer until you drop them or until time runs out in the hammers case.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Has anybody else tried playing with items? I don't know which codes are doing it, but one or more of them are making some items useless. Screwattack, assist trophies, and hammers don't do a thing anymore. You can't pick up another item if you pick up an assist trophy or hammer until you drop them or until time runs out in the hammers case.

noticed this too. not sure what's causing it, but since I don't play with items I haven't cared enough to check.

 

[kupo15]

Simply most people like yourself diddn't know that powershielding in melee was applicable.

You never saw me play. I never said it wasn't applicable because PSing falco's lasers were not hard and I was pretty good at it.

Of course being able to shield during a dash or PS during one became quite useful. Not just here though but if you watch japanese matches many of their top players like CJ will PS to not have shield lag and instantly aerial.

Lets review smash:

64 allowed shielding during the initial dash but had no PSing so doing this wasn't really beneficial.

Melee allowed shielding during the ID and had PSing but it was really difficult so not many players did it.

Brawl does not allow shielding during the ID but has a very forgiving PS window that is better than melee's in several aspects.

Don't you think that having a very forgiving window combined with good movement like this is a little too good for DDing? I think so mainly because PSing is too easy to do.

The point I was making is that the initial dash animation in vanilla brawl is shorter and that's why you don't notice too much that you can't shield, and it doesn't matter too much as almost anytime you are dashing you are not in the inital dash animation and thus can shield. Now with the dash dancing code on the initial dash animation is greatly lengthened leading to a much larger portion of the time you are dashing being taken by time that you are unable to shield. This is very different than vanilla brawl and makes dashing very unsafe.

This is very wrong. The initial dash animation has not been changed with the dash dancing code at all. The code merely allows you to DD throughout your entire initial dash animation.

I'm trying to point out that the dash dance code is nice and does add plenty of options but at the same time turns dashing in itself into something very dangerous that puts you in a bad position and I can easily see peoople shy away from even doing a dash as it will leave them open and good players don't like to leave themselves open at all.

How does dashing become any more dangerous than it was before the code? We have not modded dashing at all. This does not address how being able to shield during a DD could be too good given how forgiving PSing in this game is.

This can be likened to tripping. Due to the chance of tripping from dashing many people in vanilla brawl opt to simply walk in many situations as they don't want to leave themselves open for an attack. Of course they will still dash when they want to follow up something or to do other things but it's not something they can just do as it has a risk to it. As I recall we took out tripping as we didn't want to be limited.

I don't see how you can compare tripping to shielding during the initial dash. There is also a fine line between more options and too many good options. This was the problem with the beta Wave dashing code. It doesn't limit you but its too good that it makes other options useless. By not being able to shield while DDing, you have some limits with what you can do.

 

[Starscream]

A problem with 0 buffer is it destroyed Falcos dash cancel upsmash and as KayJay is saying lots of things become impossible/hard. Would putting the buffer to 1 still cause you to crouch after a fast fall? That was the biggest reason why I wanted to get rid of buffer.

First of all, it doesn't. It just makes it harder. And last I tried 1 frame of buffer I still crouched after fast fall with Falco, Fox and Marth's nair. I'll try it again later though.

 

[Frogles]

Yeah I tried it a few times after i posted that and I started getting it. 1 frame buffer also makes Falcon crouch after fastfalling uair and nair. Peach also crouches after nair.

 

[KayJay]

Yeah I tried it a few times after i posted that and I started getting it. 1 frame buffer also makes Falcon crouch after fastfalling uair and nair. Peach also crouches after nair.

How about you do fast fall with C-Stick, you won't ever get a crouch if you jump -> press attack button -> immediately move your right thumb to the C-stick and move it downwards, i do Link sh nair ff like that all the time, works perfect.

 

[Revven]

Hey guys... I discovered a bug with the new shieldstun code, I don't know if anyone has noticed it yet but...

Anyway, so, I was playing against a CPU Falco on Lv. 9 with CF. And, he shot a laser at me, I perfect shielded it and then... I COULDN'T LET GO OF MY SHIELD!! And then my shield lit up and I could not, at all, press it to let go of it or even when I let go of the button it didn't go down. It wasn't until the Falco hit my shield was I able to let go.

I'm gonna get a video up of it soon.

 

[leafgreen386]

See, unlike melee, aerials can actually finish before reaching the ground in brawl. You're holding down too long. It should take a good 6 or so frames for most characters to go from the top of their sh to the ground (probably more). As long as you aren't holding down on that last frame, then you will not encounter any problems. And the fact of the matter is, I've rarely ever had problems with buffering screwing up my shffls in brawl, simply because I buffer another action before I reach the ground. Sheik's fair -> ftilt was a favorite "combo" of mine even in reg brawl, and I never ever crouched from it, even though I ff'd the fair. Or if I hit someone with a stronger aerial and wanted to follow up, I could buffer a dash to begin dashing asap. Honestly, the crouching complaint is on of the worst complaints I've seen with the buffer system in brawl. If you know how to use it, it helps you more than it hurts you.

I'll need to try out the new shieldstun code.

This is very wrong. The initial dash animation has not been changed with the dash dancing code at all. The code merely allows you to DD throughout your entire initial dash animation.

No. He's right. The initial dash had two phases to it - the DD frames and the post-DD frames. In the post-DD frames, you could shield just like in the regular dash, but you couldn't fsmash. In the DD frames, you could fsmash but couldn't shield. All PW's code does is extend the DD frames into the remaining dash animation frames, which stops you from being able to shield during them.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Hey guys... I discovered a bug with the new shieldstun code, I don't know if anyone has noticed it yet but...

Anyway, so, I was playing against a CPU Falco on Lv. 9 with CF. And, he shot a laser at me, I perfect shielded it and then... I COULDN'T LET GO OF MY SHIELD!! And then my shield lit up and I could not, at all, press it to let go of it or even when I let go of the button it didn't go down. It wasn't until the Falco hit my shield was I able to let go.

I'm gonna get a video up of it soon.

you're using an old version of it.

 

[GPDP]

Hey guys... I discovered a bug with the new shieldstun code, I don't know if anyone has noticed it yet but...

Anyway, so, I was playing against a CPU Falco on Lv. 9 with CF. And, he shot a laser at me, I perfect shielded it and then... I COULDN'T LET GO OF MY SHIELD!! And then my shield lit up and I could not, at all, press it to let go of it or even when I let go of the button it didn't go down. It wasn't until the Falco hit my shield was I able to let go.

I'm gonna get a video up of it soon.

Aw, snap. Shield stun sure has turned out problematic, hasn't it?

Edit: Are you sure you're using the latest code? There was a "beta 4" code that was almost immediately replaced with a "beta 5" code.

 

[Revven]

Edit: Are you sure you're using the latest code?

Yeah, pretty positive. Kupo updated his .gct file and I edited the shieldstun values with 3/2. It felt good indeed, but, yes I am using the latest code possible. It only happened ONCE out of all the matches I played but, it's a bug. >_>

It's the one on the first page if I'm not being clear enough.

 

[MookieRah]

I never saw anything wrong with the last shield stun code to be honest. The "sliding" that people were mentioning was nothing extreme.

 

[K1T3]

No. He's right. The initial dash had two phases to it - the DD frames and the post-DD frames. In the post-DD frames, you could shield just like in the regular dash, but you couldn't fsmash. In the DD frames, you could fsmash but couldn't shield. All PW's code does is extend the DD frames into the remaining dash animation frames, which stops you from being able to shield during them.

Ahhh thanks for that. I knew there was a longer period that you were dashing and could not shield but was not sure exactly how it worked and what was causeing the new vulnerability.


What happened with that Perfect shield code. Is anyone working on it? That seems to be the main reason you don't want to be able to shield while dashing, so if that comes out then it should be cool right? Though I still think it should be in either way...

 

[Shell]

@MookieRah re. infinite DD

I understand your point about a technique being too powerful if you can't mess it up. While it likely has no place in competitive play, I encourage you to try it, if only for fun, and tell me about it.

 

[kupo15]

Ahhh thanks for that. I knew there was a longer period that you were dashing and could not shield but was not sure exactly how it worked and what was causeing the new vulnerability.


What happened with that Perfect shield code. Is anyone working on it? That seems to be the main reason you don't want to be able to shield while dashing, so if that comes out then it should be cool right? Though I still think it should be in either way...

I must have misunderstood what you said. I'm sorry.

*goes to reread that post*

 

[K1T3]

I must have misunderstood what you said. I'm sorry.

*goes to reread that post*

That was my bad I explained the whole thing completely incorrectly as I didn't know the real mechanic behind it that leafgreen pointed out. The result though from the actual mechanic still leads to the things I pointed out though.

Sorry I wall of text like that I know it makes things really hard to read --;;

 

[kupo15]

I still don't think we should enable shielding during the DD though

Ok updated codes

http://rapidshare.com/files/181575238/Brawl_.txt.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/181575239/RSBE01.gct.html

Buffering is 1 but not on as a default

 

[kupo15]

Hitlag codes are out to test!

I would try half hitlag as an initial test

so maybe??

HitLag Modifier(Division): Phantom wings (3 lines)
C2771EC0 00000002
39C00002 7C8473D6
90830010 00000000

Im not sure


DAM N IT I NEED MY WII NOA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MBlaze]

Nice, but has anyone tried the new fast fall code that's up there to see if that's any good?

And that pause code is ******** btw.

 

[kupo15]

idunno how to work that code and I can't test either so ppl figure it out -_-

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

I'll test it and get back to you kupo

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i set mine to 3 and its pretty hilarious lol

the character is still in hitlag, but your character isn't. i kneed DK, and then i was able to jab combo him hahaha


edit: i was ike. did upB to DK. both of us are frozen now.

 

[MBlaze]

idunno how to work that code and I can't test either so ppl figure it out -_-

It's basically a thing that automatically zooms in on the level when you begin the fight, and when you press pause to change it around, where ever you left the camera in whatever place is where the camera will resume the match at.

For example, say that I zoom out so far that neither character or even the stage can be seen, when I go out of pause the camera will stay like that.

ALSO, sorry to say this but I found a glitch with shield stun. When you hit someone with like a jab or something and with the right timing of you getting hit, you might stay in shield with no way to get out unless your opponent hits you at the right angle where the shield doesn't cover because the whole time your shield is up it wont decrease. So yeah.... back to beta again. >.> I don't know if that happens with just 4/2 but I'm going to try with 3/3 right now to see if it happens again and no buffer was on while I did this.

 

[GPDP]

Hmm, so the hitlag code is still incomplete? Did you try the other one, the subtracting code?

 

[Shadic]

ALSO, sorry to say this but I found a glitch with shield stun.

Are you using the newest code?

 

[MBlaze]

Are you using the newest code?

Sadly yes.

 

[Revven]

ALSO, sorry to say this but I found a glitch with shield stun. When you hit someone with like a jab or something and with the right timing of you getting hit, you might stay in shield with no way to get out unless your opponent hits you at the right angle where the shield doesn't cover because the whole time your shield is up it wont decrease. So yeah.... back to beta again. >.> I don't know if that happens with just 4/2 but I'm going to try with 3/3 right now to see if it happens again and no buffer was on while I did this.

I already said this two pages ago but, only two people paid any attention to me. I'm uploading a video of this bug right now actually and it can happen with Falco's lasers as well. My values were 3/2 and it happens only when you PS.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

With the division hitlag code on 2, Marth's tipper doesn't appear to have any hitlag at all, or at least very little. CF's knee does have hitlag still, but it appears to be reduced. And Pikachu's down smash has reduced hitlag as well.

 

[Shadic]

I already said this two pages ago but, only two people paid any attention to me. I'm uploading a video of this bug right now actually and it can happen with Falco's lasers as well. My values were 3/2 and it happens only when you PS.

I thought that's what the new (v.4) version is supposed to fix?

 

[MBlaze]

I already said this a page ago but, only two people paid any attention to me. I'm uploading a video of this bug right now actually and it can happen with Falco's lasers as well. My values were 3/2 and it happens only when you PS.

Crap..........

 

[zxeon]

i set mine to 3 and its pretty hilarious lol

the character is still in hitlag, but your character isn't. i kneed DK, and then i was able to jab combo him hahaha


edit: i was ike. did upB to DK. both of us are frozen now.

Any value over 2 on the division code causes multi-hit attack to freeze. On the up side when hitlag is reduced by half the game flows a lot faster and I like it.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Any value over 2 on the division code causes multi-hit attack to freeze.

only certain attacks are freezing tho. mario's B for example. it's too fast, but its still awesome.

 

[MBlaze]

Very strange... that bug doesn't happen to Mario at all.... Happens to Bowser but he gets out of it after a hit to the shield and not being damaged.... one weird *** bug indeed.

 

[Almas]

Currently in the process of uploading 22 videos recorded earlier today. We're not exactly super-skilled, but meh ;p. It'll provide -some- insight on the new codes, although we haven't really had time to learn how to utilise them well.

From playing, I've kinda come to the conclusion that the fastfall speed code isn't worthwhile. The increased downwards gravity code feels more natural to gameplay in general to me, and the combination of the two results in freakishly fast fastfalls with even small values.

I've noticed that ROB's recovery is really weird now. Trying to grab the edge with autosweetspots off is quite tricky. Ionno, I guess it balances out the fact that he had overpowered recovery before.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Ooh, give the subtraction code a go, I tried it with 10 (0A) and hit lag is reduced greatly. Multihit attacks, like Pikachu's down smash and Squirtle's down air happen instantly without that odd pause in between each hit. I'll test it next on FF to see if that will just simply subtract all frames without going into negative numbers.

 

[Revven]

Very strange... that bug doesn't happen to Mario at all.... Happens to Bowser but he gets out of it after a hit to the shield and not being damaged.... one weird *** bug indeed.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYBZlXwyEQ

 

[MBlaze]

Kupo I need the old Shield stun codes back, I can't bring this to the tourney with this bug...

Also, values in hitlag code please?

 

[zxeon]

Ooh, give the subtraction code a go, I tried it with 10 (0A) and hit lag is reduced greatly. Multihit attacks, like Pikachu's down smash and Squirtle's down air happen instantly without that odd pause in between each hit. I'll test it next on FF to see if that will just simply subtract all frames without going into negative numbers.

Metaknight's attacks look quite different at half hitlag too.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

With the subtract hitlag code set to FF all multihit attacks are uninterrupted with lag. Marth's tipper appears to be lagless(but I could be doing it wrong), as with Donkey Kong's giant punch.

Unaffected/little affected Attacks (tested so far):
CF Knee
Ness PK Flash
Zelda Lightning Kick (forward and backward)
Zelda forward smash

I've come across no glitches or issues, but a list of hitlag inducing attacks would be nice to test against.

 

[zxeon]

How much hitlag should attacks have?