COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

you are correct. It should be

 

[grim mouser]

Basically, say what is good/bad about Peach given the current Beta set. Jump/gravity/etc. is modified accordingly.

 

[PanzerOceania]

How do you want me to rep Peach on this?

well sticking around generally would be nice. Basically if there are changes that affect all characters, you would be someone who would know if it would break peach, either for the good or that bad. I don't think there is gonna be any more specific changes to peach but you never know, eventually there will probably be something, and it'd be nice if you could say "hey wait a minute" if someone is suggesting a change that really doesn't fit her or makes her feel not like peach.

Also, after this update today, you could even state if there is anything wrong with how she plays, we might think everything is "just fine" but you might notice something we don't. All characters are meant to be better and more fun in this version and we are trying to get rid of lame broken moves. Peach as far as I know is doing well right now but if there is anything too bad or too good about her, or even just changes what you think peach should play or feel like, let us know. If everything is perfect then I guess you don't have to say much at all, just say "Peach is good to go".

 

[grim mouser]

Another question, Kupo. xD What is the value you're using for the Ledge Invincibility Duration?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Dark pch, which code file did you play? I have a feeling you will soon be playing a considerably better code set in a few hours

I used the one from this link that Shanus PM me:
http://shanemulliganphotography.blogsite.org:6111/~shane/Smashcodes/3-8-2009/Beta3.3/

Basically, say what is good/bad about Peach given the current Beta set. Jump/gravity/etc. is modified accordingly.

Alright. So far I have no problems with her. The only think I am a lil worried about is her being a floaty and mixed with the longer hit stun in the air. Characters like Meta can eat hair alive like that. Worst than before.

Then again, this is all when you get launced with a strong blow. So by the time meta comes to me, I can already do something. This I have to look into some more.

But the problem with Peach in general was that she was easy to kill due to her weight and had trouble killing. That is a bad commination. I say a lil more K.O power would be fine. But don't do this just yet. moves don't get weak anymore from what I hear? So I'm gonna put this to the test and see just how she kills. if she kills on average, throw buffing her on power, she is fine. if anything was to really be buffed, it be her Fthrow IMO.

I'll try to get friends over or if people have the same codes as me on thier wii, I'll play them online and see how this goes.

 

[grim mouser]

The set from the link you posted contains the No Decay code. Your moves shouldn't lose any knockback or damage with use.

Right now I don't think KB/damage can be modified, but Almas is working on KB modification I think?

 

[Finns7]

Yep, but I feel he needs one more buff...lower kb on the raptor boost. Then he will be set. But we don't have that code though

If falcon gets that then link better get lower KB on his dthrow...

Idk it still feels like certain chars (not just link) grabs have just a tad bit too much kb. With proper DI alot of **** can be DIed out of ;p

 

[Revven]

I used the one from this link that Shanus PM me:
http://shanemulliganphotography.blogsite.org:6111/~shane/Smashcodes/3-8-2009/Beta3.3/
I'll try to get friends over or if people have the same codes as me on thier wii, I'll play them online and see how this goes.

Two things I thought you should know Drk.

1. You can see what's been changed by going to the site shanus linked you to and clicking on the file called "changelist" and see what has changed in the code set. You can also take a peek at the file called "beta 3.3.txt" to see what codes are activated/on in the set. In Brawl+, moves don't decay in knockback or damage (though we DO want damage decay) so, everybody has an equally better chance at killing with their KO moves if you've already used them.

2. You can send people the code set you use (in this case, the official plusery set) to play them online. In fact, if you go to the IRC I bet you could find someone to play right now (irc.gamesurge.net/BrawlPlus incase you wanted the link).

 

[Dark.Pch]

The set from the link you posted contains the No Decay code. Your moves shouldn't lose any knockback or damage with use.

Right now I don't think KB/damage can be modified, but Almas is working on KB modification I think?

What does KB mean?

 

[grim mouser]

KB is knockback.

Jiggly would like modified KB on several moves as well. ;]

 

[Finns7]

KB knockback, and I would see peaches stage game (matchup) and edgegame at the over 9000 lvls.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I wanna fight a cheap meta knight as Peach now with this.

 

[Me_Aludes]

I've just noticed that shanus codeset has "No AD during Tumble v3". This has been probably discussed before, but I don't see why should we remove all the defensive options when you're in tumble. Learning to predict what your opponent is going to do is very important in vB, and that should remain in B+. Moreover, it's not like AD is a broken option or something.

Also, I don't think it balances characters, but makes chars with faster aerials even better than they already are.

Just wanted to see what you guys think.

 

[Eaode]

YAY beta 3.3 got leaked ^__^

 

[Dark Sonic]

I've just noticed that shanus codeset has "No AD during Tumble v3". This has been probably discussed before, but I don't see why should we remove all the defensive options when you're in tumble. Learning to predict what your opponent is going to do is very important in vB, and that should remain in B+. Moreover, it's not like AD is a broken option or something.

Also, I don't think it balances characters, but makes chars with faster aerials even better than they already are.

Just wanted to see what you guys think.

You can get out of tumble by tapping the control stick once while you're not in hitstun. In other words, you still have all your options from before (they come one frame latter of course), but now of also have the option to tech instead of airdodge when you're close to the ground.

It really doesn't nerf the defensive game at all (assuming that you actually...practice a little so that you air dodge immediately after tapping the control stick), but rather buffs it by simply giving you more options to work with.

It also puts a little more skill into escaping combos, since now instead of spamming the shield button when trying to escape, you have to time it to coincide with a control stick tap (and you'd better not spam control stick taps, unless you want to have the worst DI ever in the case of you still being in hitstun when you get hit)

 

[trojanpooh]

YAY beta 3.3 got leaked ^__^

Leak really isn't the right word, I myself have had access to it for quite awhile now. As long as you were on the chat at the right time, he gave you the URL of the Brawl+ beta 3.3 beta

 

[Dark.Pch]

Two things I thought you should know Drk.

1. You can see what's been changed by going to the site shanus linked you to and clicking on the file called "changelist" and see what has changed in the code set. You can also take a peek at the file called "beta 3.3.txt" to see what codes are activated/on in the set. In Brawl+, moves don't decay in knockback or damage (though we DO want damage decay) so, everybody has an equally better chance at killing with their KO moves if you've already used them.

2. You can send people the code set you use (in this case, the official plusery set) to play them online. In fact, if you go to the IRC I bet you could find someone to play right now (irc.gamesurge.net/BrawlPlus incase you wanted the link).

I typed that link. it says site can't be found.

 

[Revven]

I typed that link. it says site can't be found.

Haha sorry, this is it: http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

 

[Me_Aludes]

You can get out of tumble by tapping the control stick once while you're not in hitstun. In other words, you still have all your options from before (they come one frame latter of course), but now of also have the option to tech instead of airdodge when you're close to the ground.

It really doesn't nerf the defensive game at all (assuming that you actually...practice a little so that you air dodge immediately after tapping the control stick), but rather buffs it by simply giving you more options to work with.

It also puts a little more skill into escaping combos, since now instead of spamming the shield button when trying to escape, you have to time it to coincide with a control stick tap (and you'd better not spam control stick taps, unless you want to have the worst DI ever in the case of you still being in hitstun when you get hit)

I see... but that's not good if we want to make Brawl+ more n00b friendly. It's easier and more "natural" to press a button in order to dodge than tapping the control stick+button. And some combos are already hard enough to escape without the proper DI. It's not like they need to be harder. Not everything should demand X skill, not when AD'ing it's your only defensive option.

I feel that Brawl+ should be the more competitive possible, but this is just unneeded. Maybe changing the input for teching would be a better solution? (dunno if that's viable).

 

[Dark.Pch]

Haha sorry, this is it: http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

Freaking awsome. I am gonna record some of these matches and post them in here. be back in a few hours.........yea its that serious.

 

[shanus]

I see... but that's not good if we want to make Brawl+ more n00b friendly. It's easier and more "natural" to press a button in order to dodge than tapping the control stick+button. And some combos are already hard enough to escape without the proper DI. It's not like they need to be harder. Not everything should demand X skill, not when AD'ing it's your only defensive option.

I feel that Brawl+ should be the more competitive possible, but this is just unneeded. Maybe changing the input for teching would be a better solution? (dunno if that's viable).

Tech window isn't an issue with that button, we actually don't need the No AD during tumble to fix teching at all. The reason we use this code was to make it so the player needed more skill to get out of combos. However, you still do have another option, you can still buffer in an attack during hitstun and instantly leave hitstun doing any aerial. So you have a choice, wiggle AD, or instant aerial. You still have plenty of options, it just makes it so the player can't supermash AD and instantly leave it. I'm still not entirely sold on the cold, but the benefits seem nice thus far.

 

[kupo15]

I used the one from this link that Shanus PM me:
http://shanemulliganphotography.blogsite.org:6111/~shane/Smashcodes/3-8-2009/Beta3.3/
[/COLOR]

Ok great, then you should be updated

If falcon gets that then link better get lower KB on his dthrow...

Idk it still feels like certain chars (not just link) grabs have just a tad bit too much kb. With proper DI alot of **** can be DIed out of ;p

I feel throws have too much kb also in which I will be experimenting with when the kb code is made so don't you worry

I see... but that's not good if we want to make Brawl+ more n00b friendly.

This game IS more noob friendly and it will always be (using melee as a comparison) I don't want a game that puts noobs over good competitive play. I'd rather not see us make an easy game over depth and even this change isn't challenging anyway and it benefits the game as a whole over all in a positive way from my matches.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I'm not the best technical player in the world, so I can vouch for the less skilled players that easy to play but hard to master has always what made Smash so addicting, taking away some of the depth and the mastery makes the game more shallow to everyone, not just the pros, so what brawl+ is doing is best for EVERYONE.

 

[Rikana]

Freaking awsome. I am gonna record some of these matches and post them in here. be back in a few hours.........yea its that serious.

So we got a Peach representative for Brawl+ now? :D Awesome. Glad you're enjoying Brawl+. Brawl+ is spreading pretty quickly.

 

[TokiDoki]

I know you guys didn't want to include wavedashing but do you think you guys may reconsider? It adds more control and the like. Maybe when the community gets bigger we can take a poll? And yea brawl+ is the way to go. Good work

Edit: ah okay thanks for the response grim.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok so I played online with Finnz. Could not record cause my PC was acting up. hate this machine.

Peach is a monster. And her edgeguarding.....I dare not get into details.

I also used Zelda. yet another quick monster, One problem though. When you get launched, the hit stun is longer. Zelda can take full advantage of this. You can lock mutiple F-Bs on the enemy. It can reach them before they can do anything. I did this a few times to Finnz. Once I started the F-B lock, he could not do anything and I got easy kills or too much damage from it.

There could be other characters that can do stuff like this and it can be a pain. I would not know. But for now, Zelda is the biggiest issue on it. You boys might wanna discuss some stuff about this.

 

[wazgood]

waiting for brawl hacks > waiting for brawl last year

lol

 

[grim mouser]

I know you guys didn't want to include wavedashing but do you think you guys may reconsider? It adds more control and the like. Maybe when the community gets bigger we can take a poll? And yea brawl+ is the way to go. Good work

Can't fit it ATM anyway. If/when Gecko 2.0 releases, anyone who wants it can just add it in.

One problem though. When you get launched, the hit stun is longer.

I *think* hitstun is always the same length of time. It's just that a harder hit makes you go faster, so you go farther before the hitstun ends. Confirmation, please?

 

[Almas]

Hitstun is proportional to launch speed, and is multiplied by a constant depending on the character. It is generally believed that there are three categories for this constant (one for floaties, one for heavies, one for normal people).

I'd be surprised if you could reproduce chain-Fair comboes. It sounds like a case of very poor DI. I'd definitely have to see it to believe it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Can't fit it ATM anyway. If/when Gecko 2.0 releases, anyone who wants it can just add it in.



I *think* hitstun is always the same length of time. It's just that a harder hit makes you go faster, so you go farther before the hitstun ends. Confirmation, please?

I am talking about from regular brawl and brawl+. In the old version when you got lanuched by a strong attack, you could do anything in the air like a sec later. thus why momentum cancelling was good.

Brawl plus when you get launched, it takes you about 2-3 secs for you to do anything. You can't move at all. And Zelda F-B can take great advantage of that as I stated before. She can lock you in her F-B. Around Mid Percent and higher She can lock you really easy in the move. Off the stage done right, she can just get easy K.O with that F-B lock. And snce characters fall faster now in the game, this also helps with the lock.

Have people test this. you can ask Finnz as I was doing it to his Ganon and Falco.

 

[grim mouser]

Hitstun is proportional to launch speed, and is multiplied by a constant depending on the character. It is generally believed that there are three categories for this constant (one for floaties, one for heavies, one for normal people).

Thanks for clearing that up. Learned something new! =)

I am talking about from regular brawl and brawl+. In the old version when you got lanuched by a strong attack, you could do anything in the air like a sec later. thus why momentum cancelling was good.

Brawl plus when you get launched, it takes you about 2-3 secs for you to do anything. You can't move at all.

I know this, but I was incorrect in thinking that launch speed didn't affect hitstun.

 

[leafgreen386]

Almas is almost correct. Hitstun is calculated by the formula:

h = m*l / d

H is hitstun in frames. M is the hitstun multiplier constant (the brawl default is .4, and we're using .484 right now). L is the launch speed of the move (you can see max launch speed in the end game results screen). D is a character specific division constant, which can be any of the whole numbers 32, 33, 34, 35, or 36 (faster fallers have higher values and therefore suffer less hitstun).

As you can see, hitstun is linear. However, knockback is nonlinear. You start off going a distance equal to your launch speed, and then travel a progressively smaller value each frame. The rate of decay is believed to be a constant value (this is currently unverified), so moves with only slightly higher launch speeds will cause a drastically larger knockback at higher values. In regular brawl, most moves KOed players off the top of the screen when they reached a launch speed of 6200 to 6300.

This is why it's harder to combo at higher percentages. It's not that they're going too far away. It's that they're going too far away with a stun time that is proportionally smaller to that of when they stayed close.

 

[Ulevo]

Dark.Pch, which character were you doing Forward Special chains with, Zelda or Peach?

 

[tha_carter]

As a samus main, i was extremely disappointed in what was done to her. Buffering system messed up everything, and her overall appeal has dropped. Everyones aerials are virtually lagless, so its not like thats a benefit for her anymore. Not to mention she has the floatiness that makes her easy to juggle. She's extremely boring, and should be buffed or taken out of brawl +.

As for my secondaries, pikachu is incredible fun, and lightning quick. QAC is harder to do, but whatever, still works. And snake is broken. Nair and Dair 's last hit can be Lcanceled and combo'd into itself, Ftilt locks the opponent in hitstun so long that you can do another until kill percentage and then uptilt. He was TOO broken to be fun.

 

[cAm8ooo]

You can tech or DI the ftilt lock, this has been stated many times but its not a problem. Especially since teching is now easier. Snake is by no means broken.

As for Samus, she is much funner now in my opinion, especially with the sped up missiles. I dont see how buffer messed up just Samus either. Learn your timings. It shouldnt take long to get use to buffering.

 

[Rikana]

As a samus main, i was extremely disappointed in what was done to her. Buffering system messed up everything, and her overall appeal has dropped. Everyones aerials are virtually lagless, so its not like thats a benefit for her anymore. Not to mention she has the floatiness that makes her easy to juggle. She's extremely boring, and should be buffed or taken out of brawl +.

Sorry to hear that. But, in my opinion, she's much better. With the hit stun, she's a combo machine with dAir. *look at my sig for example*. I don't know what you mean by "taking Samus out of Brawl+" though. That seems impossible.

Just give it a bit of time to adapt to. Once we get knockback modifying code, the team may buff her Plasma Beam.

 

[cAm8ooo]

You could easily take out a character by adding a new CSS without her in it. But this would also take out ZSS and not to mention it would be completely ********

 

[GPDP]

You could easily take out a character by adding a new CSS without her in it. But this would also take out ZSS and not to mention it would be completely ********

I think he means to leave Samus untouched i.e. make her work exactly like in Brawl. Which I think would be stupid, and a waste of lines.

 

[cAm8ooo]

oo i c. Yea, that is even more stupid then what i thought he meant

 

[Yeroc]

You could easily take out a character by adding a new CSS without her in it. But this would also take out ZSS and not to mention it would be completely ********

Or just put ZSS in her place...