COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[abcool]

yea kupo i wanna try out the character size mod for teams matches

 

[kupo15]

yes the boundaries would change.

Leaf, post that code when you get it

Size Modifier (P1)
4A000000 90180F20
140000D8 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Size Modifier (P2)
4A000000 90180F7C
140000D8 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Size Modifier (P3)
4A000000 90180FD8
140000D8 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Size Modifier (P4)
4A000000 90181034
140000D8 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

1 is default

 

[abcool]

kupo there is another problem with the momentum. when i use fox i usually run away sh double laser, but with the momentum i sometimes go flying off of the sides and we all know with lack of ledge tech that is an auto ko. can u make a code to allow DI*ing during neutral B like it was in melee and n64. it feels weird to not have that option in brawl+

 

[Shadic]

I love the momentum code, despite its glitches. Sonic is freakishly fast, however. I was short hopping across Smashville.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

Wait, Kupo, is it true you stopped working on your codeset?

Is the Brawlplussery one really taking over?

 

[Dan_X]

Wait, Kupo, is it true you stopped working on your codeset?

Is the Brawlplussery one really taking over?

Yes. It only makes sense to unify the Brawl+ effort... it's really not a problem. The Brawl plussery is the best set available anyway.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

Yes. It only makes sense to unify the Brawl+ effort... it's really not a problem. The Brawl plussery is the best set available anyway.

There's still some personal preference involved, and I liked kupo's best. But I will switch over and hopefully with further upgrades this "unified" one will start to meet my liking more and more.

 

[Revven]

There's still some personal preference involved, and I liked kupo's best. But I will switch over and hopefully with further upgrades this "unified" one will start to meet my liking more and more.

Listen to the podcast as to why we made this decision. The Cape puts it best and I think we don't need splits in the community.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

Listen to the podcast as to why we made this decision. The Cape puts it best and I think we don't need splits in the community.

I don't need to listen to anything. Kupo's set was the most fun set for me, but far from perfect. If there's no more updates and another codeset is being worked on (quite intensively from the looks of it) I pretty much have no option BUT to switch over (ESPECIALLY if it's supposed to be the unified one).

I already said I would be making the switch in the post you replied to. I'm not really happy about it, but hey, it's not that big of a deal, and future updates should definitely help me accept this code.

I also don't think we should have noticeable splits within the community, and this was of course bound to happen (people unifying to accept one code). I knew it was coming, and alas, now I have to make my switch.

 

[kupo15]

You guys are going to love me. I just sent a very detailed PM to spunit describing exactly how to work the momentum code. I have 100% confidence in what I said will work and fit this game seemlessly and it is be much less lines then the current one.

 

[cAm8ooo]

can you tell us what you sent

 

[MuBa]

I'm in the mood to cause some havoc.

http://www.codecrater.com/brawlplus/USA/muba/


Balanced version of Fun Speed Activate.

Enjoy!

 

[cAm8ooo]

Muba came out of the dark alley!!! This is against the law

 

[kupo15]

can you tell us what you sent

I guess but some of you won't like it. This is the only way IMO that this code will ever fit like a glove to this game well enough for us to use it in the final set. The truth hurts.

Hi,

I didn't have time to explain my changes so here goes. I also have some interesting ideas that I would like to try. I have outlined exactly what I believe needs to be done with this code to make it absolutely perfect

Here are the conditions that the momentum code should work based on my melee testing:

-Momentum is a set (specific) force applied that is not adjusted by dash speed. Proof:

Mario had the same momentum speed from a fast walk and a dash.

-You get this momentum as long as your character moves a minimum speed or higher regardless of what animation he is in.

Proof: Melee Mario's fast walk met this requirement which is why he got momentum from his fast walk. Falcon did not met the required speed with his fast walk thus receiving none.

If you meet the required speed AND hold in that direction at the time of the jump, then you get momentum in that direction.

Not only is this how melee worked, but this condition will remove the bugginess of getting momentum from a fox trot.

Disable momentum during Fall 01
This will remove run off momentum

Important discoveries

In melee, not everyone had momentum contrary to what we all thought. Luigi did NOT have momentum at all. Guess what else didn't give Luigi momentum:

Momentum Capture: Phantom wings
048669D8 60000000

Other characters like Sheik, Zelda, ect did not have momentum in melee and didn't have momentum in Phantom wings code either. This means that Phantom wings actually used the true momentum in the game and everyone else who wanted these characters who didn't have momentum (sonic, luigi) to have them were wrong. We were all wrong. The characters who don't get any momentum from Phantom wings code were never designed to have it in the first place.

RARing
I tried to do a RAR in melee to see if it will still give you momentum and it does. Now, melee didn't have RARing because of how the game processed skids but if you do the steps to RAR, it will work without giving the effects of RARing

Solution to momentum

So here is my solution to the momentum code that I strongly believe is the correct solution:

1. Build upon the momentum code Phantom wings used instead of the new place you used now.

Not only will this enable RARing, but it also takes care of when this code should work and whatnot. This code phantom wings made takes care of the first 3 out of 4 points I described above.

2. Disable this code during the Fall 01 state

This will remove walk offs

3. Add a modifier

That's it. All you have to is two changes to Phantom wing's momentum code and it should be complete. I highly doubt we have to make it character specific.

Thank you very much!

kupo

 

[abcool]

Are u gonna ever gonna answer me kupo. I mean i thought u was adding what was in the old smash games to brawl+ DI'ing with neutral B is one of those things and i think it is needed with the momentum code.

 

[kupo15]

Are u gonna ever gonna answer me kupo. I mean i thought u was adding what was in the old smash games to brawl+ DI'ing with neutral B is one of those things and i think it is needed with the momentum code.

sorry, it took me almost an hour to write that up. No. We don't need any additional momentum control. Falcon at 82 feels like melee in the air control department. Try it yourself. Falcon brawl at 82, and melee falcon. The air control is almost identical

 

[abcool]

So umm if i got fox and i wanna laser and Di back like melee and n64 i am basically stuck to get punsih by a running cc forward smash or upsmash. That is why i mainly want it for the spacies to not get punished so easily when using lasers. falcons metagame doesn't require lasers spacing like mario and the spacies do. i see on the other hand falcon is pretty decent overall now. But sometimes just because fox can combo, ppl think he is great, but it was the laser spacing DI control that made fox beastly.

 

[kupo15]

abcool, if you noticed from my big post, I feel the direction of the momentum code needs to go in a different direction. Since I think pws code uses the correct location for momentum, we will not know if this problem still exists when we find an appropriate level with a new momentum code. This is why I didn't respond to you. We need to see what the new momentum code does.

EDIT: I also added to the list "FF Non chargable Neutral specials"

 

[abcool]

ok now i understand where u are coming from. I'll wait and see what changes are brought about then. But u do know fox in brawl lacks because of laser spacing.

 

[leafgreen386]

ok now i understand where u are coming from. I'll wait and see what changes are brought about then. But u do know fox in brawl lacks because of laser spacing.

I know this quite well from trying to play him today and yesterday. He wants to be a campy and controlling character, but without precision lasers, he really can't. I think that we'll be able to fix that, though. We'll be getting a new momentum code and the ability to fast fall neutral specials, and if we do go through with shrinking the characters/increasing the size of the stages then it would also give him slightly more room to play around in, so I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[CountKaiser]

So wait, some people are going to get shafted with this new code? I'm not comfortable with that.

This seems like it will give the people who will have the momentum even more options, and thus leave the others in the dust. Drastic analogy, but you see what I'm saying. Even if characters weren't designed for something, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have it. Bowser isn't designed for thick skin, nor was MK designed to be really light. Why should Falcon get the benefit of momentum and not Sonic? He needs it as much as Falcon does, probably more.

What I'm saying is, it should affect either all the characters or none of them. Momentum threatens the balance of the current codeset we have in the first place.

 

[goodoldganon]

Wait, when did it change that Sonic isn't getting momentum? Christ, so much SF4 and I've fallen behind.

 

[CyberGlitch]

BTW, abcool, the recommended value for the size modification is 0.93. This will make the characters approximately Melee sized.

 

[goodoldganon]

Doesn't the size reduction mess with the hitting through platforms thing? I haven't tested the code, so I have no idea if that's good or bad.

 

[kupo15]

So wait, some people are going to get shafted with this new code? I'm not comfortable with that.

This seems like it will give the people who will have the momentum even more options, and thus leave the others in the dust. Drastic analogy, but you see what I'm saying. Even if characters weren't designed for something, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have it. Bowser isn't designed for thick skin, nor was MK designed to be really light. Why should Falcon get the benefit of momentum and not Sonic? He needs it as much as Falcon does, probably more.

What I'm saying is, it should affect either all the characters or none of them. Momentum threatens the balance of the current codeset we have in the first place.

Tell that to melee sheik. She really is sucky and imbalanced without momentum. I'm pretty sure she gets some momentum, but not a lot.

 

[CyberGlitch]

The size code Kupo linked is an old one, poorly coded, and has it's own quirks.

I believe Sputnit just released a new size code that's only one line and modifies all items along with characters.

As for the platform issue, I cannot attest one way or the other.


And yeah, Kupo, Shiek was one I noticed who got CRAZY with the older momentum code, not necessarily crazy good, though. She's a bit out of control.

 

[Finns7]

Im not feeling falcon on this setting, it seems like too much. And why do we need a size modifyer code I missed that.

 

[Revven]

IIRC, I think that someone said it was impossible to change stage sizes because there's nothing that changes stage size in the game thus, there's no variable or anything of the like that indicates that change. I wouldn't be too hopeful about stage size modification.

If we don't wind up getting something like that, we shouldn't use the size modifier because then people will definitely start to call this project "Melee 2.0" because then we'd be aiming to make them the same size as Melee's characters and... that's a little much. I really don't think we should change their size at all.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Bravo, Kupo. Seriously, that sounds perfect.


And seriously, I wish we could change stage size. Corneria just feels wrong, and Battlefield could stand to be a bit bigger as well.

 

[Eaode]

yea its kinda stupid when ROB gets murder choked by ganondorf on battlefield and falls on top of the platform xD

 

[Adapt]

I still don't see what was wrong the the previous momentum code... it gave momentum to the faster characters, properly, and all we needed was to balance the characters so they didn't get an easy 0-death combo.

If we don't wind up getting something like that, we shouldn't use the size modifier because then people will definitely start to call this project "Melee 2.0" because then we'd be aiming to make them the same size as Melee's characters and... that's a little much. I really don't think we should change their size at all.

The reason this gets called melee 2.0 is because in many aspects you are trying to bring things to be more like melee. Look at Kupo for example... he had falcon at a value for momentum that (imo) was too high because "he feels like melee". Now he went on and scrapped the old momentum code because this one should be more like melee...
Also the justification for removing ASL is given as a melee video (and some as**** GaW stalling, which is banned anyway). I recently saw an awesome match that about a full 40 seconds took place on the edge or very near it, and it was a normal brawl match.

Those examples are just in the last couple pages... I'm sure there are tons more.

 

[zxeon]

Momentum V11 is better than this garbage. I'm sticking with the older code.

 

[KayJay]

Here is a 2on2 Brawl+ video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW0esiGPACM&fmt=22
there was no air momentum code yet, and the hitlag is reduced to 30%.
It's my first Brawl+ upload with the changed encoding to upscaled HD resolution.

 

[ShortFuse]

Here's the Momentum CaptureV3 in Brawl+ Tweaker format for all you lazies

Momentum Capture: V3
Made by (phantom wings, spunit262)
1
C28669D8 00000007
807D007C 80630038
2C03000B 41820010
2C03000E 4182001C
4800001C 48000005
7C6802A6 C1C30020
C03B0008 EC2103B2
D03B0008 00000000
20000000 FADEF00D
ZZZZZZZZ 00000000
E0000000 80008000

Save it as a b+ file and keep it in the Brawl+ Tweaker folder

 

[RyuReiatsu]

IIRC, I think that someone said it was impossible to change stage sizes because there's nothing that changes stage size in the game thus, there's no variable or anything of the like that indicates that change. I wouldn't be too hopeful about stage size modification.

If we don't wind up getting something like that, we shouldn't use the size modifier because then people will definitely start to call this project "Melee 2.0" because then we'd be aiming to make them the same size as Melee's characters and... that's a little much. I really don't think we should change their size at all.

Now I totally agree with you!
Some characters would really suck when they get smaller, because for instance...
This fighter could BARELY hit anybody on a Pokemon Stadium Platform, what would happen if they get smaller? They wouldn't hit anything at all. Already that some characters' hitbox have shrunk drastically from Melee to Brawl.

 

[abcool]

The reason we are shrinking the characters/making the stages bigger isn't to make it more like *melee* We are doing it because TB feels to cramped, especially since the battles are more hectic and fast..with no room to run around and Friendly fire turned on it makes teams feel rediculously stupid to even wanna play. I for one don't wanna be limited to picking certain stages for teams. This rule also applies for FFAs

 

[kupo15]

I still don't see what was wrong the the previous momentum code... it gave momentum to the faster characters, properly, and all we needed was to balance the characters so they didn't get an easy 0-death combo.



The reason this gets called melee 2.0 is because in many aspects you are trying to bring things to be more like melee. Look at Kupo for example... he had falcon at a value for momentum that (imo) was too high because "he feels like melee". Now he went on and scrapped the old momentum code because this one should be more like melee...
Also the justification for removing ASL is given as a melee video (and some as**** GaW stalling, which is banned anyway). I recently saw an awesome match that about a full 40 seconds took place on the edge or very near it, and it was a normal brawl match.

Those examples are just in the last couple pages... I'm sure there are tons more.

Momentum V11 is better than this garbage. I'm sticking with the older code.

What you two don't realize is that the plussery was considering taking V10 and making everyone at 50%, falcon at a high value..ect but what you also don't know is that they were planning to not even include momentum because we asked spunit to find a different location to pull the momentum, thus making implementation of the code really horrible. I am pretty confident that with the method spunit had to do to satisfy peoples want for momentum towards all characters, there is no way to fix the buggy problems you see in V10. Thus it would be scrapped anyway.

This new code gives almost everyone their 50% even at a value of 95%. It acts like how the older one with char specifics would have acted and its implemented much better. I don't think that sonic doesn't get momentum, he just gets 30% momentum because based on what I'm seeing, it looks like 30% from the old code. So we might be able to make it char specific to accommodate other chars if we want to or adjust the strength of the code so that its twice as powerful. So quit *****ing until we know what is possible with this code.

 

[Alopex]

@Adapt

You know, I could take or leave the No ASL code.
On one hand, it makes edgeguarding a far-too-simple task that selectively damages some characters' recoveries and leaves others untouched.
On the other hand, it makes the recovering player need to put more thought into their recovery, its trajectory, and the time of UpB use. It promotes more careful use of recoveries like G&W's.

So I could take it or leave it. I still don't like what it does to Diddy, Ness, and Lucas though.

 

[abcool]

Anyway kupo can u link me to the size mod spunit fixed up? the 1 liner?

 

[Revven]

I just tried the new momentum code and everything felt pretty good. Only problem is we STILL have bugs with Ganon's side special and Falcon's side special. Also, apparently, you can double jump in any direction and the murder choke will still act as if you ran from it. I don't know if there's any way around these two specials but, it'd be nice if they were fixed (even if they are super cool).

Sonic doesn't get much momentum if any at all, which I don't mind that much, then again I am new to Sonic so lol. Captain Falcon still slides a little when you use a Dair from your momentum, which isn't much of a surprise. As far as I know, the characters listed below had either 0 to hardly any momentum:

ZSS
Marth
Ike
Sonic
Lucas
Ness
Jigglypuff
Samus
Bowser
Peach
Kirby
Luigi
Wario
Olimar
Snake
G&W
Sheik
Zelda
Wolf
Pit

That's 20 characters of 35 that don't gain very much momentum leaving us with 15 characters that DO have some momentum or enough to be noticeable. (i.e Ganondorf) I don't think this is a problem, it's almost half the cast which IMO, works out pretty well. Of course, some chars who have momentum may have the advantage over those that don't. And, some that even have momentum don't gain much from it other than a more useful Dair or Fair (i.e DK). At the end of the day, the code works well minus the three things I mentioned that still need to be tweaked.