COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Almas]

The Grav Mod and Link's Up+B Mod won't stack.

 

[kupo15]

my bad about my tech roll testing. I was using mario and didn't realize that his is quite fast to begin with. Dumb me. Im up to 1.1. SGX, does 1.0 speed up the roll any?

 

[Alopex]

Also Alopex, if you wanted to request it, you should have just done so in our thread for it. And if you haven't tested it yet, you should, because its awesome.

With all due respect, the request was made in that thread many times by many other posters. No one really got a response. I didn't really see the need to repeat a request that had already been made by others.

And I will test out the Beta builds, but only after the OP in the Brawlplusery thread includes the variables for the codeset. Like I said above, I don't like going into things blindfolded. I can only properly test and give feedback if I know what I'm working with. That is what allows me to make note of specific things in the build and thus give more accurate feedback. Without the values, I can only test and suggest arbitrary things like "maybe less of this or that". I'd rather test out the build knowing all the values so that I can then test alternate values and give feedback with suggested values.

Good communication like that allows the Brawlplusery to hone things a lot faster. But I'm not going to indulge in that kind of feedback until the Brawlplusery people give me the same courtesy and present the variables openly. I mean, yes, I could find that values on my own, but that just allows the Brawlplusery to get away with poor communication.
That's not something I can support, so on principal I won't give the Betas a whirl until that oversight is addressed.

I don't mean to appear arrogant, I just hold any Back Room to high standards,


On topic:

So once those codes you listed are out Kupo, then all that remains are:

Grab release fix, Tech window, Bounce lock fix, Ledge invincibility, Damage-only decay, and fixes to the No ASL and Shieldstun v8 codes.

Anything else? Have people starting messing around with the knockback of character-specific moves? I noticed the code in the OP, has anyone had much success in altering Sheik's Ftilt or Snakes Utilt?

Also, I'm going to look for the post where spunit mentioned the difference between the v8 shieldstun and the old shieldstun code. Then we can decide if the v8 is really necessary over the old no-NPS code.

 

[plasmatorture]

With all due respect, the request was made in that thread many times by many other posters. No one really got a response. I didn't really see the need to repeat a request that had already been made by others.

And I will test out the Beta builds, but only after the OP in the Brawlplusery thread includes the variables for the codeset. Like I said above, I don't like going into things blindfolded. I can only properly test and give feedback if I know what I'm working with. That is what allows me to make note of specific things in the build and thus give more accurate feedback. Without the values, I can only test and suggest arbitrary things like "maybe less of this or that". I'd rather test out the build knowing all the values so that I can then test alternate values and give feedback with suggested values.

Good communication like that allows the Brawlplusery to hone things a lot faster. But I'm not going to indulge in that kind of feedback until the Brawlplusery people give me the same courtesy and present the variables openly. I mean, yes, I could find that values on my own, but that just allows the Brawlplusery to get away with poor communication.
That's not something I can support, so on principal I won't give the Betas a whirl until that oversight is addressed.

I don't mean to appear arrogant, I just hold any Back Room to high standards,

I feel much the same way. I might not matter all that much for the project as a whole, and while I don't mind that being the case, having questions in "Back Room" threads go blatantly ignored is just obnoxious. As long as they fix their act it'll be okay, I suppose, but back rooms in general, especially ones with so little info (I still want to know who decided there'd be a Brawl+ back room, who's in it, and where it's hosted) are something I have an inherent problem with. And they have the audacity to claim it's still a "community project" yet even the minimal effort to answer questions isn't being put out. If it was just a group of people who put together the codeset and were posting it to get advice but had some communication issues, that's one thing, but they're doing that plus claiming to be the official backroom of brawl+ and not communicating well. Doesn't sit right with me.

 

[SGX]

Kupo: actually, yes 1.0 does speed up the roll quite a bit.

Almas: it seems to work...

 

[shanus]

I feel much the same way. I might not matter all that much for the project as a whole, and while I don't mind that being the case, having questions in "Back Room" threads go blatantly ignored is just obnoxious. As long as they fix their act it'll be okay, I suppose, but back rooms in general, especially ones with so little info (I still want to know who decided there'd be a Brawl+ back room, who's in it, and where it's hosted) are something I have an inherent problem with. And they have the audacity to claim it's still a "community project" yet even the minimal effort to answer questions isn't being put out. If it was just a group of people who put together the codeset and were posting it to get advice but had some communication issues, that's one thing, but they're doing that plus claiming to be the official backroom of brawl+ and not communicating well. Doesn't sit right with me.

A lot of the back room members have jobs or go to college, etc, and I know I frequent these boards a lot. Despite that happening, some times is hard to keep up with these threads. I was gone all of last weekend when Beta1 went public and did not get tp respond (or read in depth) a lot of the responses in that thread. However, with the inputs I did get to read and further inputs from the very active IRC (which both me and other BR members are quite active in) and I think we put out an excellent codeset for Beta2. I'll try and take as many questions as I can, but I'm only one person who can post in these forums only so much .

In terms of your questions, the roster for the backroom is ever expanding. Its currently about 10 members but I think invitations will soon put it in the range of 15 or so. The backroom houses all of the coders, as well as noteable contributors to Brawl+ in addition to competitive melee & Brawl players interested in balancing the project. It was formed in multiple conversations with the Mods and is actively growing based on user contributions. In terms of hosting location, it is a hidden forum here on smashboards that only the members can see.

Our goal is not meant to be viewed as some hostile leadership hellbent on dictating the direction of Brawl+, but to try and take high level players opinions to try and best balance the game. We hope our opinions and codesets will be viewed as standard as we are all ears on trying to make this as competitive and fun of a game as possible. I know I've kept track of every suggestion made to me so far for Beta2 and hope to use that to make the codeset even better.

I've asked Almas to update his OP with the settings earlier, but he has gone missing as he is a crazy englishman.

 

[Alopex]

My main issue is the fact that the Brawlplusery doesn't really explain why they are making the choices they are making.

I don't think it's enough to just put out the character balance values without explaining what the vision for that character is in the eyes of the Brawlplusery.

It's that kind of explanation the lets us understand what the Brawlplusery is trying to achieve with its Betas. Just saying that the Betas are an attempt to create a Brawl+ standard is completely dishonest, because we don't know what the Brawlplusery's vision for the final Brawl+ is.

For all that's been explained, the Brawlplusery could very well be wanting Brawl+ to be "like Melee" and could be tailoring character specific changes to make characters "more like Melee".

That may not be case, but how would I know considering nothing has really been divulged?

Not only that but I've seen more than one person in that thread respond to characters changes with "it makes them more like Melee and I think that's good".

How am I supposed to get the confidence that the Brawlplusery ISN'T composed of Melee 2.0 enthusiasts if I don't see them communicate their overall vision to me?

Do they even have a unified vision? Because if not, then why is there even a Beta 1 codeset? That would be even worse.

When the SBR-B decides on the official ruleset and stage lists for the competitive vBrawl game, they explain every decision in detail so that everyone in the vBrawl community is aware of why things are the way they are.

The way the Brawlplusery is working, they're just kind of wanting people to take their word that their vision is the ideal Brawl+ vision without explaining to us what that vision is.

Do you see why that would make me hesitant, Shanus? An organization like the Brawlplusery needs to maintain great communication in order to attain credibility.

 

[plasmatorture]

A lot of the back room members have jobs or go to college, etc, and I know I frequent these boards a lot. Despite that happening, some times is hard to keep up with these threads. I was gone all of last weekend when Beta1 went public and did not get tp respond (or read in depth) a lot of the responses in that thread. However, with the inputs I did get to read and further inputs from the very active IRC (which both me and other BR members are quite active in) and I think we put out an excellent codeset for Beta2. I'll try and take as many questions as I can, but I'm only one person who can post in these forums only so much .

No, I understand the issue of having lives. People (not to name names, although it's very easy to skim and see) answered some questions and not others that were repeatedly asked at around the same time. Not to mention, some of the first replies to the post were people asking for the general values that weren't provided. Everyone else has always included values and descriptions in their codesets or along with them, so to see this monolothic chunk of code and being told "sort through it yourself" (actually, not even told that) was an issue. Because you guys are taking on the role of an official group, you'll have to start being more accountable - and I'm glad to see that you're definitley moving that way, it was just off putting at first.

In terms of your questions, the roster for the backroom is ever expanding. Its currently about 10 members but I think invitations will soon put it in the range of 15 or so. The backroom houses all of the coders, as well as noteable contributors to Brawl+ in addition to competitive melee & Brawl players interested in balancing the project. It was formed in multiple conversations with the Mods and is actively growing based on user contributions. In terms of hosting location, it is a hidden forum here on smashboards that only the members can see.

And why do we have it? Competitive melee and brawl players already had many means to discuss character balance (this thread, the brawl+ forums). The fact that you and The Cape and possibly others have made their own, different "backroom" codesets and released them to the public is disonconcerting. Are you guys an entity? Or just an exclusive discussion group, even though we've already got venues to do so?

Our goal is not meant to be viewed as some hostile leadership hellbent on dictating the direction of Brawl+, but to try and take high level players opinions to try and best balance the game. We hope our opinions and codesets will be viewed as standard as we are all ears on trying to make this as competitive and fun of a game as possible. I know I've kept track of every suggestion made to me so far for Beta2 and hope to use that to make the codeset even better.

Well I hope it works out well, and I do understand that a place such as that can be very viable for moving the game forward. I know you guys aren't trying to be an evil leadership - none of you ever acted that way pre-backroom (at least, those who I know have access ) and you all are good folk. I still haven't gotten a chance to try out Beta2 but I look forward to giving it a shot.

I've asked Almas to update his OP with the settings earlier, but he has gone missing as he is a crazy englishman.

Thanks!


Edit: Alopex does bring up some good points which I totally agree with and was going to bring up until they slipped my mind. We definitley need to know the why. I still want to know the justifications for what stages are frozen (and I've created a thread over on the other board to discuss such things as I felt another B+ thread here would be cluttery), for instance.

 

[shanus]

My main issue is the fact that the Brawlplusery doesn't really explain why they are making the choices they are making.

I don't think it's enough to just put out the character balance values without explaining what the vision for that character is in the eyes of the Brawlplusery.

It's that kind of explanation the lets us understand what the Brawlplusery is trying to achieve with its Betas. Just saying that the Betas are an attempt to create a Brawl+ standard is completely dishonest, because we don't know what the Brawlplusery's vision for the final Brawl+ is.

For all that's been explained, the Brawlplusery could very well be wanting Brawl+ to be "like Melee" and could be tailoring character specific changes to make characters "more like Melee".

That may not be case, but how would I know considering nothing has really been divulged?

Not only that but I've seen more than one person in that thread respond to characters changes with "it makes them more like Melee and I think that's good".

How am I supposed to get the confidence that the Brawlplusery ISN'T composed of Melee 2.0 enthusiasts if I don't see them communicate their overall vision to me?

You bring up a good point. Next time Almas is on I'll have him put in an official explanation behind the value changes I've made which ill include in this post here. Also, hopefully ill get him or someone else to write more regarding our vision and goals and why it was formed. However, I'll tackle the values question first and then I need to go study for an exam some more.

Character Specific Balance Changes for Beta Set 2:

Currently the changes I've made to the set have been to get rid of that Lead Boots feel which plagued Beta Set 1 while enhancing the aerial options w/ faster jumps and character specific gravity modifications. Here is how the reasoning worked.

Lowering the Up-Down Combined Gravity Settings:
Characters are generally grouped into three different categories:

Normal Gravity, 1.05x, 1.1x

What this serves is it makes characters with a certain weight feel to them which I'll call Floaty, Standard, and the Fast Fallers. The Combined Up–Down Gravity settings in this beta are substantially lower than in Beta Set 1 to enhance recovery options & edgegame options and make it feel more floaty again more akin to the Brawl feeling. Other members in the backroom have preferred even less gravity intense settings such as the Cape and we will be examining those very closely for future iterations.

To balance out the lower upgravity settings, we still wanted to preserve the SHFFL and juggling game and wanted to up the strict downgravity setting. This setting does NOT multiply with Fast Fall, so it only has effects on when a user is falling without the FF. Another three groups were made and applied with the same Floaty, Standard, Fast Fall group with values of 1.15, 1.175, and 1.2. This values when combined together, should give a feel which has a speed analogous to Kupo / Mookie's codesets but trying to optimize each character for their own strengths/playstyles.

Next comes Fast–Fall speed. As this multiplies with the Up–Down Combined Setting, this was done to try and give all the characters a good FF to chain moves together. So the floats, who have the lowest other settings, get the highest multiplier on their FFs, then standards another FF speed, and the Fast–fallers the lowest FF multipler. This multipliers range from 1.3 or 1.4 to 1.2 to 1.15.

Full–Hops and Short–Hops: The values chosen for these are specific to each character. For instance, falcon needs ledgedrop to nair, marth needs SH double fairs, etc. We tried to preserve as many attributes as possible to give the characters their whole metagame available to them. Certain characters such as wolf are not able to AC his fair right now but that was a decision I've currently made after discussion with several wolf mains. They feel his ability to use a low hitting fair and short enough SH bairs to hit players is very useful and better overall.

Certain values are not perfect right now, and thats why we want to hear your opinions. I try and keep track of all the comments.


Also Captain Falcon plays perfectly. Just putting that out there.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

This is cool and all, but I've been thinking:

What if we wanted to keep all the physics and gameplay mechanics that Brawl already has, but try to balance the fighters? You know, make it so tires rally don exits?

 

[Revven]

This is cool and all, but I've been thinking:

What if we wanted to keep all the physics and gameplay mechanics that Brawl already has, but try to balance the fighters? You know, make it so tires rally don exits?

Uh no. That would be impossible due to the limitations we have and there can never be a perfect roster especially with the way vBrawl works and how Sakurai created it.

For Brawl+, we ARE doing char specific things, but, not until we have everything sorted out.

 

[shanus]

This is cool and all, but I've been thinking:

What if we wanted to keep all the physics and gameplay mechanics that Brawl already has, but try to balance the fighters? You know, make it so tires rally don exits?

Char Specific balancing codes are going to be examined shortly after the other last codes are done.

 

[Almas]

I agree to an extent that the actions performed so far haven't been top-standard. Let me try and justify our actions:

Most of the codes currently in the Brawlplusery set are accepted as standard or at standard values. It doesn't seem necessary to justify why we've opted to enable ALR, or why we're using Shieldstun 22/10/5. I'll be sure to note the exact values being used in the post, though.

Of the new codes, we can't really offer a full justification of each setup. Our numbers are limited and we don't have comprehensive knowledge of every character. Instead, we're relying on ballpark figures which have been lovingly crafted by The Cape and Shanus, to make every character feel 'about right'. It's impossible for us to get everything perfect the first time round, and we never planned to. Our first set was regarded as being very heavy, and we corrected that, but trying to explain the setup for every character is rather time consuming, especially when it's partially founded on guesswork. Now we've got a decent starting point out, we can tweak more specifically, justifying each change more accurately.

Y'all have to consider I'm 5 hours ahead of you, too. Often I'll get given a request to modify my post when it's 2AM for me, and I'm honestly not in the mood - I want to just watch my TV shows and go to bed. This wouldn't usually be an issue, but the Brawl+ project is constantly moving forwards at race speed. It doesn't help that I'm meant to be hacking at some point, too.

Finally, I don't want to seem too fascist by saying this, but at times I fear explaining the exact mechanics of the codeset could be a bad thing. Generalist statements like 'Link should have a better recovery' are perfectly usable to us, provided they are justified. But if people have the tools to easily modify codes, then you run the risk of errant codesets flying around, and the concept of a 'standard' never really develops. The concept of a private room is to be able to discuss how the game should be altered with a truly neutral viewpoint, focused on improving balance and gameplay. When, the moment a codeset comes out, everyone begins thinking of how THEY can modify it to suit THEIR specific preferences, the concept of a standard falls apart.
I'm also somewhat unmotivated to explain things out of sloth - I must confess. The beauty of a code for me is the innovation behind it - y'all don't know this, but I managed to trim 60 lines off my character specific code with a flash of insight inspired by a talk with a friend. Once I have solved the problem I honestly don't care about it any more - to the point where even writing the code can sometimes feel uneccessary to me.

Anyway, I'll work on updating our OP to include more details. But you have to understand the ideas that are present.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

But what if I like playing Brawl the way it is? I like the floatiness, I like the lack of directional air-dodging and wavedashing, I like how powershielding is really really easy; but I want my fighters to be more equal?

Maybe MK's uB and TLink's dSmash can't kill at 30%, and maybe Gdorf can have some invincibilty frames for being so slow? Stuff like that?

 

[Almas]

To an extent, dyce, I agree with you. I mean I hate Brawl, but I can definitely understand the desire for such a codeset to balance out the game without changing it. That kind of thing would be a product towards the end of this one, though - mainly because the codes which would do the things you would want simply don't exist though. We're at the tip of the iceberg of character specific stuff.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Thank you Almas. THAT was the response I was looking for.
I will be staying tuned, just to see all of what really can be done with Brawl.
Good luck to all of you who are tweaking the game.

EDIT:
And thank you shanus. I didn't see your response. Haha.

 

[Revven]

To an extent, dyce, I agree with you. I mean I hate Brawl, but I can definitely understand the desire for such a codeset to balance out the game without changing it. That kind of thing would be a product towards the end of this one, though - mainly because the codes which would do the things you would want simply don't exist though. We're at the tip of the iceberg of character specific stuff.

This AND because you couldn't get everyone to mod their Wii JUST for changes to Brawl. There are TONS of people out there that are vehemently against the idea of changing Brawl even the slightest, it was hard as hell to get people to accept No Tripping. It's even harder to get people to accept Brawl+.

Dyce, you should look at SamuraiPanda's thread about it (it's in GBD), you should definitely give it a read and see ALL the ruckus it caused. In the end, SP had to close it simply because of all the immature people whining about a HYPOTHETICAL (yes, HYPOTHETICAL, the whole thing was a HYPOTHETICAL idea) idea just because of the mere word of "hacking" being mentioned.

It's sad really.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Hey, I'm just curious as to whether or not what I'm asking can be done: changing the characters individually without changing the game.

I'm not against modding your Wii for Brawl, and I know there will never be any universally accepted standard for Brawl other than the one released by Nintendo. Modding your Wii for this purpose is just like choosing to buy chunky peanutbutter, or buying smooth to add your own peanuts, or adding skittles or something else crazy like that. Whatever you choose comes with its own personal risk, and its own personal reward. It's just what your into, I suppose, and I'm pro-choice+.

Also, just out of curiosity, has there been a mod that allows Melee tether recoveries? Like where you can tether to any part of a stage wall?

 

[Alopex]

I understand everything you're saying Almas, but the one issue still remains:

You said Shanus and The Cape lovingly crafted the character specific changes so that every character feels "about right".

The issue is, about right based on what? About right compared to their Melee counterpart? About right based on how they played in vBrawl? What makes them feel about right? What's the point of comparison?

That's the main thing. You don't need to explain every change in detail, in fact that was never what I asked for. What I was asking for was just for an explanation of the vision for the character to go up along with the changes.

I don't need to know why you specifically chose x value for Falcon's gravity, but I do want to know what you want his fall speed to achieve.

You know what I mean?

In terms of the general variables, I don't need to know why you use .485 hitstun, but I do want to know explicitly that you are, in fact, using that value for hitstun.

It's just things like that.

The more you divulge to me about your intentions and your values, the more comfortable I'll be with whatever you guys put out.

Also, you're an Englishman. Why do you say "ya'll" as often as someone from South Carolina?


EDIT:
Shanus, your post was very informative and very well written.

That's exactly the kind of stuff I need to get behind the Betas. Thanks for that.

You should find a way to include that in the OP of the Brawlplusery, as I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate that level of explanation of what you guys intended.

 

[Shadic]

I'm with Alopex, I believe. Knowing the "What," and the "Why" would help. I mean, I like the codeset, but having the entire game be decided behind closed-doors when it's supposed to be an open-community project is a bit off.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I think the purpose of Brawl+ is to make it feel more like Melee, but there's got to be problems with that.
Main point: How do the characters that weren't in Melee feel "about right"?

I never like the name "Brawl+". I always thought it should be called "Melee+" if the purpose of the project was to make Brawl play more like Melee.

 

[Shell]

I truly believe that there is a value for all of the jump / gravs that is "best" for the character. I don't mean best in the opinion of the user, but really in the interest of the character's metagame. I think that by and large, this is what the back room has been striving for. I thought this was common knowledge.

Short hops, for example. There really is a value that is most useful for the character, offering the best options for each character's unique arials.

Gravity, also. The gravity must compliment the character's gameplay strategies, as well as being appropriate for their recovery.

If this is close to the melee versions, then so be it. Likewise if it happens to be near vBrawl settings.

I think it's worth mentioning to the back room that they could be a little more up front, but I think some of you guys are blowing this out of proportion.

 

[shanus]

I understand everything you're saying Almas, but the one issue still remains:

You said Shanus and The Cape lovingly crafted the character specific changes so that every character feels "about right".

The issue is, about right based on what? About right compared to their Melee counterpart? About right based on how they played in vBrawl? What makes them feel about right? What's the point of comparison?

That's the main thing. You don't need to explain every change in detail, in fact that was never what I asked for. What I was asking for was just for an explanation of the vision for the character to go up along with the changes.

I don't need to know why you specifically chose x value for Falcon's gravity, but I do want to know what you want his fall speed to achieve.

You know what I mean?

I terms of the general variables, I don't need to know why you use .485 hitstun, but I do want to know explicitly that you are, in fact, using that value for hitstun.

It's just things like that.

The more you divulge to me about your intentions and your values, the more comfortable I'll be with whatever you guys put out.

Also, you're an Englishman. Why do you say "ya'll" as often as someone from South Carolina?


EDIT:
Shanus, your post was very informative and very well written.

That's exactly the kind of stuff I need to get behind the Betas. Thanks for that.

You should find a way to include that in the OP of the Brawlplusery, as I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate that level of explanation of what you guys intended.

Check it out now, i think everyone will be pleased!

 

[Revven]

I think the purpose of Brawl+ is to make it feel more like Melee, but there's got to be problems with that.
Main point: How do the characters that weren't in Melee feel "about right"?

I never like the name "Brawl+". I always thought it should be called "Melee+" if the purpose of the project was to make Brawl play more like Melee.

That's not the point of the project.

It is to take all the things that made the two previous Smash games successful competitively and apply them to Brawl. Not only to make Brawl a better game competitively, but, to rid it of its campy nature and defensive strategies always seemingly triumphing (unless you play MK).

It's not going to be called "Melee+" because that would deter who we want this to appeal to and it's also NOT what the goal of the project is. Notice how we lack wavedashing and more mechanics from Melee (such as Crouch Canceling) and among other things. We can't match the true physics of Melee, period, and we wouldn't want to anyway as it ruins the characters.

You really ought to try the code sets out before assuming that we're turning this into Melee.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Ohhhhh. Good explanation. Thanks Falco400.

 

[Alopex]

I think the purpose of Brawl+ is to make it feel more like Melee, but there's got to be problems with that.
Main point: How do the characters that weren't in Melee feel "about right"?

I never like the name "Brawl+". I always thought it should be called "Melee+" if the purpose of the project was to make Brawl play more like Melee.

That's exactly why it's called Brawl+. Because the goal is NOT to make Brawl more like Melee, it's simply to enhance Brawl with mechanics that were lost in the transition.

Brawl plays distinctively different from Melee and we are trying to preserve that while adding to the diversity of Brawl gameplay.

A lot of us here get ruffled by the concept of "Melee 2.0" because that's not the goal of this project at all and indeed advertising it as such only causes the project to lose the support of the (frankly much larger) number of fans who prefer Brawl to Melee since its the "new Smash".

EDIT:
Falco400's Agility is clearly larger than Alopex's.
Falco400 goes first.
Alopex is beat to the punch!
Alopex has fainted.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Haha. Wow. I don't know about the rest of you, but I've learned a lot in the past half hour.

 

[the_judge]

May I ask what major purpose the air momentum code is for or what problem is it fixing?

 

[Shell]

Don't you find it strange that stand -> jump has the same arial speed / distance as dash -> jump?

 

[Revven]

May I ask what major purpose the air momentum code is for or what problem is it fixing?

Don't you find it strange that stand -> jump has the same speed as dash -> jump?

It also adds more options for characters, especially Falcon. It just flows well and will add to the combo game and speed of the game overall, that's another reason for it.

 

[GPDP]

May I ask what major purpose the air momentum code is for or what problem is it fixing?

You know how in Melee, Falcon could dash jump and clear half of FD?

Well, we want that back. It'll make the game feel faster, and add to combo potential. Plus, it just doesn't make sense that no matter how fast you're going, you always jump at the same speed without any added momentum. It feels awkward.

 

[the_judge]

Don't you find it strange that stand -> jump has the same arial speed / distance as dash -> jump?

I can personally blame that on vB. Since I was so used to it I didn't notice.

I've noticed most of my MK tricks and traps are somewhat gone in Kupo's latest set. (cries)

 

[Alopex]

I've noticed most of my MK tricks and traps are somewhat gone in Kupo's latest set. (cries)

Probably a good thing overall... >.>

 

[Problem2]

The recommended Ukemi roll is speed is .1 when 1 is the default? o.O I thought Ukemi was too slow in vB. I don't understand the logic behind doing this.

 

[Alopex]

The Ukemi code is additive. So you're adding .1 to the Ukemi roll speed.

 

[grim mouser]

Maybe the value in the code translates to a higher speed? Maybe it's like in the char. specific gravity codes.

I'm just speculating.

 

[Problem2]

oh snap, I nearly added over double the ukemi speed lol.

 

[Alopex]

You wouldn't be the first. Good ol' Kupo was having himself a headache with the code before it was explained that it was additive. He kept testing values from 1.2 down to 1.1 down to 1.05 down to 1.002... and the roll speed was always way too fast. Then we learned why. Good times, good times...

 

[spunit262]

Dash Cancel [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
C2764EBC 00000007
90810014 54846CFE
2C0417E5 41A00024
8081009C 80A4007C
80A50038 2C050005
40A20010 3C004F00
80840014 90040040
60000000 00000000

Split off.

 

[GPDP]

Very nice, spunit. Which of your other codes also need fixing up? Apparently they're holding off on adding jump speed on the beta codeset until you do.