COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Osi]

Falco's SHDL are amazing with this code. I also feel like the distance for the on stage jumps is not that out there. The really long one is falcon, but isn't that how falcon has always played? Tlink and pika are amazing... not to mention DK/ganon have nice momentum jumps. This code makes DI so important again giving a lot more air control.

I would like to see 80% or 90% on this though. The code is awesome, but a little too hard for recovering after the slide off stage airs. I would think this code at 80-90% would work a little better, and still add the needed speed.

I actually like the slide off speed thing a lot. It will add a lot more variety to the edge/offstage game, and works off all platforms. You can easily cancel a dash with down at the edge and it will not slide off, so I'm not too worried about doing it on accident off the ledge. I think this feature would be a nice addition at 80%. If it's still working as dramatically as it is now then it may need to go. Right now it is a bit much on some characters like fox.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ok here are some 'bugs' I found with the code:

If Lucario counters an aerial attack with double team he TAKES off. Assuming Lucario is in the air of course.

If someone is close to the edge of a stage Ganondorf can aerial over-b to take them OVER the edge and down. Absolute hilarity.

The 'hop' Falcon gets off a connected aerial Raptor Boost is quite large.

D3 throws Waddle Dees and Dos farther (or so my roomie says)

Ganondorf used to be able to save himself is he used his side-b too close to a ledge by holding back on the controller. He's dead now.

Either way, these are all small nuances to work around, nothing major or game changing. As others have said, it might need to be turned down, but it is exactly how I dreamed it would be.

I actually like the 'running' off the ledge thing Cape. People were talking about one thing Melee did right was the platform game with wavelanding. Well this could be Brawl's thing. It also adds a lot of really cool depth to the edge game and speeds up the transition from platform games. Here's a question:

Does Dash Speed increase the distance you gain?

 

[kupo15]

I sent a message to pw asking the following:

80%
Not apply to walk offs
Not apply to specials like RObs side b. If this is fixed, all specials should be fixed

 

[goodoldganon]

I sent a message to pw asking the following:

80%
Not apply to walk offs
Not apply to specials like RObs side b. If this is fixed, all specials should be fixed

But, but, but I like the Walk off's and specials Kamikaze Ganon is too cool

I feel we should just tone it down 80% and discuss the walk off portion as a community.

 

[GPDP]

Oh yeah, is this code affected by faster dash speed? Someone test.

 

[B.W.]

Wow, this feels weird. Definitely needs to be taken down a few notches. Though it's quite nice to know that the code was possible AND a one liner.

EDIT: I also like the walk offs. It allows for following up without having to jump when you're on higher ground.

You can easily just literally "walk off" and you won't go too far.

 

[plasmatorture]

I kinda liked it as is until I did rob's side b. Hilarious, but not good for gameplay... Ganon's side b, on the other hand, is both hilarious and great for gameplay. Kirby also gets a nice little boost this way.

The off-platform momentum was really odd at first (especially on Green Greens and Jungle Japes). Overall I think it adds interesting stuff so I say keep it, but toned down a bit obviously.

On the characters this code really affects it is a tad bit too much, but there's quite a few characters who barely felt any different.

Shame this had to come out right after Shadic, my roommate, and I played brawl for like an hour and a half.

 

[kupo15]

updated my set

FF is 1.1 instead of 1.12
Gravity is 1.25 instead of 1.2
Added jump momentum
Jump speed is 1.3 instead of 1.5

 

[B.W.]

Oh, now you update Kupo. XD

I'll fiddle with the updated one tomorrow. I'm in bed, cozy and I cannot be moved.

 

[SGX]

Kupo: you still aren't using beta 2 yet?

 

[SketchHurricane]

The new codes sound exciting! But whats the new dash cancel do? Is it simply a shorter version?

 

[zxeon]

Sonic's jump really disappointed me.

The problem with the code isn't that it's too fast. It's that you speed up while you hold forward in midair rather than slowing down little by little. I'm gonna try out some of those wierd "B" move things.

 

[plasmatorture]

Sonic's jump really disappointed me.

same

and then I played Charizard and it almost made up for it...

 

[goodoldganon]

Sonic's jump really disappointed me.

Yep. I was surprised by Ganondorf's though. Either way, if we lose the momentum from falling of platforms then Sonic gains almost nothing from the code, which is sad cause I had even higher hopes for him the C.F.

 

[zxeon]

I like the walk-offs too. I don't want to see them go.

I also have to appologize to Falco for calling his Fair garbage. It's actually useful with pseudo jump momentum.

 

[Starscream]

This is too awesome.

I don't think the distance of the jumps needs to be lessened at all, I'm perfectly happy with it. I wasn't expecting Lucario's dash jump to be as good as CF's at all. This code makes me hate CF's reverse Up+B even more.

The walk off momentum needs to be fixed or you can't walk off edgehog. Even so, I just don't like it. Also the sliding and the effects on specials needs to be fixed. I'd also like some insight as to why this barely affects Sonic and how it determines the dash jump distance+speed.

All in all, an awesome start.

Faster tech rolls are pretty great as well.

 

[Raym]

I really like this code, links recovery its better and i really like the walkoff momentum.

 

[shanus]

But, but, but I like the Walk off's and specials Kamikaze Ganon is too cool

I feel we should just tone it down 80% and discuss the walk off portion as a community.

kamikaze ganon always worked since vBrawl lol


edit: Raym explained to me its a lot more hilarious with this on

 

[Blank Mauser]

I think we should keep momentum after a double jump like in Melee, haven't tested it yet but I think it'd be for the best.

 

[Raym]

This happened when i was testing the code
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Ld3HKeAOM

 

[MuBa]

Alright guys here's my version of Fun Speed Activate! (I didn't use beta1 or 2, just an addon to my code set)

GCT File:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YPURCQ3N

TXT File:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IZF2MKYB


Enjoy!

 

[shanus]

This happened when i was testing the code
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Ld3HKeAOM

rofl, that one is gonna need to be fixed.

 

[The Cape]

I think we should keep momentum after a double jump like in Melee, haven't tested it yet but I think it'd be for the best.

Double jumps operated on their own momentum in Melee. Hence why you could jump straight up or backwards.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I actually like the slide off speed thing a lot. It will add a lot more variety to the edge/offstage game, and works off all platforms. You can easily cancel a dash with down at the edge and it will not slide off, so I'm not too worried about doing it on accident off the ledge. I think this feature would be a nice addition at 80%. If it's still working as dramatically as it is now then it may need to go. Right now it is a bit much on some characters like fox.

Sonic can't edgehog.

I'd also like some insight as to why this barely affects Sonic and how it determines the dash jump distance+speed.

This!

Spoiler

10fastestthingalives

I sent a message to pw asking the following:

80%
Not apply to walk offs
Not apply to specials like RObs side b. If this is fixed, all specials should be fixed

This. As fun as running off the stage is...I'd much rather have the ability to instant edgehog, or run off and do aerials relatively close to the stage (running, crouching, and then walking off just takes to much time to be effective in offstage edgeguarding close to the stage)

Momentum on specials is not really good for a lot of characters. Sonic's SDJ combos completely stopped working with this code.

Also, please ask PW for a way to make the jump code apply to Sonic. It feels as if Sonic is actually exempt from that aspect of the code atm. I mean, he litterally did not gain any aerial momentum from his run. That is actually his normal airspeed.

 

[Revven]

IIRC, kupo said that PW was still working it out and that this was released so we could pinpoint things wrong with it before he makes it a completely final release.

So yeah, hopefully, he fixes it soon.

 

[The Cape]

I think I may have the solution to that problem.

The gamedevelopers put in that little skid forward prior to jumping for most characters, my guess was to allow them to get more distance on jumps. Its more prominent in chars like Ganon and less in chars like Sonic.

If we can remove that little Zip, this may fix itself.
The reason why I think this is actually because of Sonic. He runs off the stage and fairs and goes FLYING, but on the stage he goes almost nowhere.

 

[timothyung]

I believe I find kind of a glitch, or I would say something imperfect for the no auto sweetspot code. I searched and didn't find anyone posting this before. Sorry if it has been mentioned.
If a character hits something when he or she is going up, and is during around the end of the animation, he will auto sweetspot the ledge, and this happens before the character actually falling back down. Maybe it's something about the hitlag. Try with mario or marth and you'll easily see that. I also tested with Link and Tonn Link, the same applies.

 

[Revven]

I believe I find kind of a glitch, or I would say something imperfect for the no auto sweetspot code. I searched and didn't find anyone posting this before. Sorry if it has been mentioned.
If a character hits something when he or she is going up, and is during around the end of the animation, he will auto sweetspot the ledge, and this happens before the character actually falling back down. Maybe it's something about the hitlag. Try with mario or marth and you'll easily see that. I also tested with Link and Tonn Link, the same applies.

We've known about this, don't worry. Don't think we plan to fix it though unless it becomes a major problem and can be mastered easily. Of course, if your animation for the Up B ends on time, you WILL snap (but not sweetspot, the sweetspot ends the animation for you, if you end it yourself you'll just snap on).

This really only occurs when you aim yourself at the ledge right, it's not EXACTLY easy to do with Link or Mario, but, I remember constant reports of it being common place for Marth and TL (theirs being incredibly easy).

We might fix it... it's just not a HUGE priority right now (aerial momentum just came out after all).

 

[SketchHurricane]

I think I may have the solution to that problem.

The gamedevelopers put in that little skid forward prior to jumping for most characters, my guess was to allow them to get more distance on jumps. Its more prominent in chars like Ganon and less in chars like Sonic.

If we can remove that little Zip, this may fix itself.
The reason why I think this is actually because of Sonic. He runs off the stage and fairs and goes FLYING, but on the stage he goes almost nowhere.

This actually might be the issue. Have you guys been testing with jump speed on or off? It might have an effect.

I believe I find kind of a glitch, or I would say something imperfect for the no auto sweetspot code. I searched and didn't find anyone posting this before. Sorry if it has been mentioned.
If a character hits something when he or she is going up, and is during around the end of the animation, he will auto sweetspot the ledge, and this happens before the character actually falling back down. Maybe it's something about the hitlag. Try with mario or marth and you'll easily see that. I also tested with Link and Tonn Link, the same applies.

That seems about right. The NAS code only effects upB snapping, right? So if your hit out of your upB, you would snap as if you just happened to be hovering near the ledge. I don't think it matters that you are still moving up, since you technically are not in a jump or anything. Not sure if it warrants a fix, but if it makes edgeguarding with dtilts and such unreliable we might have to look into it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

That seems about right. The NAS code only effects upB snapping, right? So if your hit out of your upB, you would snap as if you just happened to be hovering near the ledge. I don't think it matters that you are still moving up, since you technically are not in a jump or anything. Not sure if it warrants a fix, but if it makes edgeguarding with dtilts and such unreliable we might have to look into it.

That's not exactly how it works. The code checks each frame and compares your position to that of the last frame (if you are higher than you were before, then you can't grab the ledge.) So it affects jumps as well.

However, I do believe hat the hitlag is what causes this. During hitlag your character doesn't move, therefore you are not rising (you still don't grab the ledge at this point). However, on the very first frame after the hitlag is over, the code will do it's little check, comparing your position to that of one frame ago (the one during the hitlag). But you didn't go anywhere yet, so you'll be all clear to grab the ledge on the next frame.

I think that if there were a way to force the code to "skip" on frame after the hitlag (as in, don't let the grab the ledge yet, but also wait for the next frame to do the check again), then the problem would be solved.

 

[Alopex]

By the way Kupo, and everyone else too, the one-line No FF on C-stick code in the OP should just be completely replaced by the two-line version with a 1 frame value.

FastFall on C-stick MOD [spunit262, Phantom Wings]

0485E27C 40A20008
0485E278 2C000001


The one-line version uses a 4 frame value, which hinders the immediate responsiveness of the SHFF.

This code essentially removes the FF from the C-stick but leaves Control Stick FF entirely unchanged since 1 frame of consecutive down input is all you need to start a FF.

Since the C-stick is read as 0 frames, this effectively removes the C-stick FF but keeps the Control Stick FF unchanged.

spunit detailed the mechanics, and SGX tested it out to verify, and everything works as theorized. In other words, it works perfectly.

I think 1 extra line is totally worth the cost of FF responsiveness.


However, spunit, I'm going to assume that your one-line code is one line long because it can't be modified. If that's the case, would you also be able to make a one-line with 1 frame as the set, unchangeable value?

 

[trojanpooh]

What I don't get is how can this code be so short if no momentum is kept in vBrawl? The fact that it is a one liner indicates that it was in the games code to begin with, but why? Also, do people think its stable enough to play with just for fun?

 

[KRSnakey]

And for the next mod, we change Pit's voice acting/ take it out all together.

 

[kupo15]

wow everyone seems to have their **** down with whats wrong with everything

Updated Alopex

I changed my set from 1.16 dash to 1.13. Untested but I doubt such a large dash speed is necessary anymore

I switch inbetween mine and the pluserys because Im still not sold on the feel of the pluserys. Beta 2 was still weird but Ill wait for beta 3

 

[GPDP]

So, have we determined if any external factors affect the momentum code, such as dash speed?

 

[shanus]

wow everyone seems to have their **** down with whats wrong with everything

Updated Alopex

I changed my set from 1.16 dash to 1.13. Untested but I doubt such a large dash speed is necessary anymore

I switch inbetween mine and the pluserys because Im still not sold on the feel of the pluserys. Beta 2 was still weird but Ill wait for beta 3

How may I ask was it weird beyond you saying it is? Especially because most characters have a multiplier of gravity almost identical to your set but with optimized FH heights and SH heights.

Cape and I already made most of the values for Beta3 which fixes up almost everyones complaints and preserves almost every playstyle.

 

[Revven]

wow everyone seems to have their **** down with whats wrong with everything

Updated Alopex

I changed my set from 1.16 dash to 1.13. Untested but I doubt such a large dash speed is necessary anymore

I switch inbetween mine and the pluserys because Im still not sold on the feel of the pluserys. Beta 2 was still weird but Ill wait for beta 3

kupo, when PW responds back to your PM and is asking for a solution to Sonic's problem ask him about what The Cape said (in hurr) and see if he can look into that and find out if that's what's causing it.

 

[kupo15]

How may I ask was it weird beyond you saying it is? Especially because most characters have a multiplier of gravity almost identical to your set but with optimized FH heights and SH heights.

Cape and I already made most of the values for Beta3 which fixes up almost everyones complaints and preserves almost every playstyle.

Falcon still seemed too heavy and his sh was not shorter, Ike still seemed to have his ledge hop problem. I couldn't test it for long but we will see what beta 3 comes up with the air speed code.

Oh and I got some weird horizontal trajectories with some moves and I'm afraid that most moves will be sending ppl too far horizontally by default


Did melee have SOME transfer from walk offs?

 

[Revven]

his sh was not shorter

Uhh... yes it was kupo. You sure you were using beta2? My vids show Falcon's SH height being MUCH shorter (and it is shorter).

 

[kupo15]

Uhh... yes it was kupo. You sure you were using beta2? My vids show Falcon's SH height being MUCH shorter (and it is shorter).

Im pretty sure I was. Ill just wait for beta 3

Did melee have some transfer with walk offs?