COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[grim mouser]

Not to pressure or anything, but are there still bugs in spunit's recent codes? I'm trying to keep up with all the new happenings. >.<

 

[Revven]

Not to pressure or anything, but are there still bugs in spunit's recent codes? I'm trying to keep up with all the new happenings. >.<

The bugs are with his Jump Speed/Throw Speed/etc. merger. Just don't use that one and you'll be fine.

 

[Team Giza]

I am very against shielding during dashdancing because of how it makes having a longer initial dash always better. I know it was in both the previous games but in this case I do not think it is a good idea to use it. Not having it made it so that characters with shorter initial dashes had some advantages and I would wish to maintain that.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Falco's going to be really hard to approach with a shorter short hop (back to his old self again?). Has anyone (hackers) looked into fastfall during neutral B yet? Not a necessity, but definitely would be cool to have.

 

[Finns7]

Guys I was thinking about brawls grab. Should we decrease the KB on cetain Chars grabs?

 

[Alopex]

Lucario, Ness, and Lucas need the autosnap. That said, we can't fix that even if we wanted to cause they are write-protected.

No. Only their upBs are write-protected, so those are the only things we can't change about them.

Ok, here we go again...

I posted this a while back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hq5jtMre8g


If the UpB's of Ness and Lucas were truly completely unmodifiable, as write-protection suggests, then that video, which I made myself, would simply not have been possible.

What I'm trying to say is this: the video above shows that the No ASL code does have an affect on Ness and Lucas's UpB. That means that those moves must be somehow capable of being altered. So instead of giving up on them, shouldn't we be looking into how this is happening?

 

[kupo15]

Some vids to show you how dumb meteor canceling is in this game

Meteor canceling is a joke

Meteor canceling is STILL a joke

See how Mario's fair will be usable from this code?

 

[leafgreen386]

Yes. You'll notice how when he shows how long the hitstun lasts, snake stays in one animation for a long time as he falls before going into the tumble. That whole time he is in hitstun, and it's only when the tumble starts that he leaves it.

 

[GPDP]

So basically, you can meteor cancel even when in hitstun?

 

[kupo15]

So basically, you can meteor cancel even when in hitstun?

That is what meteor canceling is and the fact that its easy to do and meteors are the easiest to avoid out of all the games its a ******** mechanic that needs to be removed. As you can see, this is what mario's fair and many other spikes are lacking. This is no different than being able to AD out of hitstun in Vb. Its the same concept

 

[Shell]

Is there any way to "fix" the meteor canceling while preserving the diversity of spike strengths between characters?

 

[leafgreen386]

Yes. You will be able to act once you're out of hitstun, so you don't just auto-die from weaker spikes.

 

[B.W.]

Thought I'd let people know, I'll be out of the testing loop for a few days.

Brawl was rented, and I returned it so I could get my sister some of her own games since she's sick. I'll have it back soon. (I should probably just buy the **** thing again, but I get free rentals so it kinda tells me not to.)

 

[kupo15]

Is there any way to "fix" the meteor canceling while preserving the diversity of spike strengths between characters?

Yea, just delete meteor canceling all together. Meteor canceling doesn't change the diversity of the spikes, it actually homogenizes them. Sounds contradictory but yea, just remove the feature and spikes will actually be more unique then they were before

 

[VietGeek]

I'm unsure of where exactly to advertise this to the general Brawl+ community...but I guess here is okay...right? Since I think this is one of the most visited threads. So I heard we were getting some board soon.

So I made a combo video with roughly 2 hours of Brawl+ playtime.

Umm...yeah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUKY-IALrA

 

[GPDP]

That video is proof that we need a more lenient teching window. So many of those combos were made possible due to missed techs.

Also, is it me or was that a ledge tech I saw at 1:49?

 

[Shell]

Yeah, that caught my eye as well.

 

[leafgreen386]

He was above the stage and was hit into the ground. It wasn't an actual ledgetech.

 

[zxeon]

Nah, the tech window is alright. Those people just suck at teching.

 

[leafgreen386]

Hey zxeon, you have 1000 posts! Welcome to the spam-a-lot club!

And no, the teching window is screwed up atm. It's done by checking how far you are from the stage when you do it, not based on a timer like in the other games. It's stupid.

 

[Flamingo]

Yea, just delete meteor canceling all together. Meteor canceling doesn't change the diversity of the spikes, it actually homogenizes them. Sounds contradictory but yea, just remove the feature and spikes will actually be more unique then they were before

I agree with abolishing meteor cancelling

 

[cooler1339]

I hardly use to miss a tech in melee, but I feel like the timing is awkward. I can't tell if I have to press it slightly above or when I hit. Just when I think I got it down it fails the next time.

 

[zxeon]

Hey zxeon, you have 1000 posts! Welcome to the spam-a-lot club!

And no, the teching window is screwed up atm. It's done by checking how far you are from the stage when you do it, not based on a timer like in the other games. It's stupid.

I have indeed become a lord today. My stance on teching is "It's hard but it still works."

 

[leafgreen386]

I have indeed become a lord today. My stance on teching is "It's hard but it still works."

We've changed a lot of things that "still work." IE. gravity, hitlag. There was nothing fundamentally wrong with either one of these, but we changed them anyway because we thought they would make the game better. It's the same thing here.

 

[zxeon]

We've changed a lot of things that "still work." IE. gravity, hitlag. There was nothing fundamentally wrong with either one of these, but we changed them anyway because we thought they would make the game better. It's the same thing here.

Yeah, I guess. It's not like I'm dying for a better window.

 

[B.W.]

One thing that crossed my mind earlier in the day is, B+ doesn't run much on tech skill... I'm not saying there is no tech skill in the game, just that it's too easy to do. It's not really tech "skill" when it's really easy to do.

Two things to adjust might be Meteor Cancelling. It is really easy to do, but I don't agree on taking it out, just making it harder, and maybe making it so your height of the jump/up-b is cut so that it's not quite as good making it so spikes are more useful than they currently are.

Now for teching.. Teching is a defense from getting hit, so you can can avoid being combo'd. Something we all alreadyk know. As it is, it's kind of crappy. I would think that it should be something that's not too difficult, but not exactly easy either so you'd have something you'd need to practice putting the "skill" back into tech skill.

The game already runs very much on choice, and faking out your opponent with your mind games, but as it stands I feel that tech skill doesn't take much practice with what we've left in there, and to be honest we didn't leave in much (though what we took out was for the better.)

Forcing people to practice the timing of things will also help add to the competitive nature of the game as there will be stuff that people can do more often than others. I would say we want to make it something hard enough to where you can still miss it after much practice, but not incredibly hard to do so that no one will be able to do it much even after a lot of practice. We could probably apply this method to a lot of things. Teching, and Meteor Cancelling are two things that can. This will also help make the whole experience of the game much greater and will make for more WTF comebacks, that build satisfaction in both those watching and those playing.

That's just me though.

 

[goodoldganon]

I kinda agree with Zxeon. The tech window is a pain, that's for sure. But if I focus up I can hit the important techs to save myself extra damage. Still, I wouldn't be against an better tech windo.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

hmmm.... i really think that cutting the distance of upb's is a bad idea i mean characters like ganon would be tottally screwed by meteors as if it wasnt hard enuff to make comebacks from regular meteors with him i think meteors shud stay cancelable but it shud be similar to watever the window for teching is which i believe shud be made similar to melees

 

[izzy24]

Ok, here we go again...

I posted this a while back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hq5jtMre8g


If the UpB's of Ness and Lucas were truly completely unmodifiable, as write-protection suggests, then that video, which I made myself, would simply not have been possible.

What I'm trying to say is this: the video above shows that the No ASL code does have an affect on Ness and Lucas's UpB. That means that those moves must be somehow capable of being altered. So instead of giving up on them, shouldn't we be looking into how this is happening?

THIS!!!

10upbmistery

 

[goodoldganon]

I would say it had something to do with the tilting of the Star Fox stage, but then you did it on Final D. It's weird. Can anyone else replicate that? I have never seen it in all my B+ playings.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

@ goodoldganon

my cpus do that all the time in brawl +

 

[goodoldganon]

Maybe it's late but I lol'd at your FC and Wii #. Well played good sir.

Either way, that's odd. I hate the Earthbound boys but maybe I'll mess around with them sometime this week to try and figure it out.

 

[Link_enfant]

I've recorded a match with MuBa's lastest codeset, hope you like it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NngiLzhRiFY
As I said in the description, next matches will probably be with human opponents, but I need to add some friend codes from here ^^

 

[Eaode]

Personally I agree with Project-05. This game needs some more technical depth to be more thrilling and satisfying in the long term.

Yea you could say it's more about strategy blah blah blah. But really, it has no more strategy than Melee does (arguably even less), and it's just slower. I love Brawl+, I really do, but it's nowhere near as satisfying or exhilarating as Melee is, and I think that will hurt in the long run.

By no means am I suggesting replicating Melee specifically. I'm just saying that this game needs Melee's sense of accomplishment if it's truly going to stand up. This game is already so many leagues above vBrawl, but it's still missing that special something, that let's you play for hours and days and weeks on end, even when you're already familiar with it.


that's my two cents, and why I think Melee is still better than Brawl+

 

[The Cape]

Kupo, what is the stand alone dash speed code?

 

[tha_carter]

Still seems like its trying to replicate the last smash games instead of introducing new concepts, like any smart game designer would do to a new game.

Something completely new to smash should be introduced, like charging aerial attacks, air dashing, or something as simple as being able to run and charge with Samus. =)

 

[Eaode]

Still seems like its trying to replicate the last smash games instead of introducing new concepts, like any smart game designer would do to a new game.

Something completely new to smash should be introduced, like charging aerial attacks, air dashing, or something as simple as being able to run and charge with Samus. =)

We're not designing a brand new game, we're making Brawl a good one.

 

[Shell]

I'm not sure there is a standalone dash speed code.

 

[Revven]

Personally I agree with Project-05. This game needs some more technical depth to be more thrilling and satisfying in the long term.

Yea you could say it's more about strategy blah blah blah. But really, it has no more strategy than Melee does (arguably even less), and it's just slower. I love Brawl+, I really do, but it's nowhere near as satisfying or exhilarating as Melee is, and I think that will hurt in the long run.

By no means am I suggesting replicating Melee specifically. I'm just saying that this game needs Melee's sense of accomplishment if it's truly going to stand up. This game is already so many leagues above vBrawl, but it's still missing that special something, that let's you play for hours and days and weeks on end, even when you're already familiar with it.


that's my two cents, and why I think Melee is still better than Brawl+

There's a problem with this though, how do we come up with something technical that just isn't PUT in there for the sake of needing technical skill? It'd be just like putting MLC in the game, it adds tech skill but, it doesn't add anything more to the game than ALC does.

Something technical needs to have three things:
1) Something with a button (although not always the case)
2) It adds depth to the game but, not arbitrary or forced.
3) It feels right with the game.

 

[Deleted member]

we need to find some sort of footstool jump thingy then to put in the game.

EDIT: maybe something with a special form of shielding where you can take the damage but not knockback, and then allowing you to respond intantly