COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[GPDP]

Seriously, if only the character speed code worked without glitches, we wouldn't have to request codes for all these things separately. We'd only have to mess with short hops, and that would probably do it.

 

[spunit262]

Couple of things:

I am going to add "faster starts to jumps" to the list. I'm thinking halving all opening jumps would be a good start

What does everyone think about double speed all throw animations? They are incredibly slow I think.

Also, can I just stack codes on top of each other so I don't have so many codes in my list?

C2766C20 0000000A
807D007C 80630038
2C030018 40A2000C
C022FFEC FC000072
2C030075 40A2000C
C022FFF0 FC000072
2C03000A 40A2000C
C022FFF4 2C03003C
40A2000C C022FFF8
FC000072 FC000072
D01F0010 00000000

065A9300 0000001C
SHORTHOP DASHDASH
FASTFALL 40000000
40A00000 40000000
40000000 00000000

Try that.

 

[Zilactic]

Couple of things:

I am going to add "faster starts to jumps" to the list. I'm thinking halving all opening jumps would be a good start

What does everyone think about double speed all throw animations? They are incredibly slow I think.

Also, can I just stack codes on top of each other so I don't have so many codes in my list?

halving all opening jumps is very intriguing. that code mixed with a horizontal aerial momentum code would eliminate the need for upwards gravity me thinks.

i would so support a double speed all throw animations code. i thought i was the only one who thought they were slow.

that and a double roll speed code would be nice too considering we increased dash speed.

 

[MookieRah]

that and a double roll speed code would be nice too considering we increased dash speed.

We shouldn't double the roll speed, instead we should simply increase it by the amount we increased the dash speed. I do think certain characters might need a roll buff, like Samus.

 

[kupo15]

Seriously, if only the character speed code worked without glitches, we wouldn't have to request codes for all these things separately. We'd only have to mess with short hops, and that would probably do it.

Atm I dont think that all attacks should be faster, just the throws.

C2766C20 0000000A
807D007C 80630038
2C030018 40A2000C
C022FFEC FC000072
2C030075 40A2000C
C022FFF0 FC000072
2C03000A 40A2000C
C022FFF4 2C03003C
40A2000C C022FFF8
FC000072 FC000072
D01F0010 00000000

065A9300 0000001C
SHORTHOP DASHDASH
FASTFALL 40000000
40A00000 40000000
40000000 00000000

Try that.

Is that shorter than the separated version? I was thinking about my standard ones that won't change such as no tripping and inf replay and no decay ect. I have them as three different codes. Can I just stack them in one code thing?

 

[Zilactic]

We shouldn't double the roll speed, instead we should simply increase it by the amount we increased the dash speed. I do think certain characters might need a roll buff, like Samus.

^that works too. haha

 

[spunit262]

Atm I dont think that all attacks should be faster, just the throws.


Is that shorter than the separated version? I was thinking about my standard ones that won't change such as no tripping and inf replay and no decay ect. I have them as three different codes. Can I just stack them in one code thing?

that doubles starting jump speed and throws, and like I said earlier it's not practical to split up a C2 code.

Yes. everything just gets lumped together in the gct anyway.

 

[Strong Badam]

I think 3/4 speed throws would be OK. Some throws are still relatively fast and halving them wouldn't give time for reactionary DI.

 

[kupo15]

that doubles starting jump speed and throws, and like I said earlier it's not practical to split up a C2 code.

Yes. everything just gets lumped together in the gct anyway.

WTF did I do to my code set? When I grab the ledge as like CF I instantly fly off to my death and after I do an aerial and hold a direction, I slide after the lag is done!! O.O

Its quite funny lol

 

[B.W.]

I got B+ working just moments ago. I messed with B+K(upo) for a good while, I'm not moving onto B+M(ookie).

Comparison feedback in just a little while from myself. Gotta catch up with the game in order to give my piece, so excuse my being slow.

 

[zxeon]

Marth needs a SH of .8 or .9 so he can SHFL Nair. Screw double Fair.

 

[Strong Badam]

Double Fair is great. Only if it gets to the point where Marth is too good (which I doubt; metaknight is the only REAL problem as far as overpoweredness goes) would I ever suggest removing shdf.

 

[zxeon]

I got B+ working just moments ago. I messed with B+K(upo) for a good while, I'm not moving onto B+M(ookie).

Comparison feedback in just a little while from myself. Gotta catch up with the game in order to give my piece, so excuse my being slow.

I remember you project. I haven't seen your avatar for a while.

 

[Starscream]

Luigi/Marth/Wolf/Ganon/DK/ness - 1: They need this set to 1 to get out certain moves like marth's double fair.

Everything I'm about to say is with playtesting done with no upwards grav and .9 SH.

Marth DOES NOT need default short hop height to get out his double fair or fair>uair even with no buffering. .9 works just fine and having his nair lower is also much better. Even DK can do his double bair on .9 with buffer on 1. I think I've said this like 3 times now.

Why does Wolf need need default height? For autocancel fair? Feh. And Luigi is already a monster and still plays fine with .9 short hops. He can double or link most of his aerials. I would like to know what Ness needs it for though, is it autocanceling the dair? When I play him I SHFFL everything so it doesn't seem like a big loss. I agree that Ganon should stay at default now that we have the means to do so.

Whoever said that .9 shorthops should be the norm with a couple character tweaks (Mookie?), I wholeheartedly agree. Samus and Zamus could use an even larger reduction though. For most of the cast I think .9 is perfect.

 

[kupo15]

C2766C20 0000000A
807D007C 80630038
2C030018 40A2000C
C022FFEC FC000072
2C030075 40A2000C
C022FFF0 FC000072
2C03000A 40A2000C
C022FFF4 2C03003C
40A2000C C022FFF8
FC000072 FC000072
D01F0010 00000000

065A9300 0000001C
SHORTHOP DASHDASH
FASTFALL 40000000
40A00000 40000000
40000000 00000000

Try that.

yea there is something weird with that code. The sliding, the getting sucked off the stage in a sec from the ledge. Marth actually twitches. I don't know if it affects the throws at all also. It also seems to affect auto l canceling by cutting it in half twice lol. It does appear to make getting off the ground faster which is good.

All I did was add that code above as a new code and unchecked the merger codes except the actual merger and the no asl ASM code


EDIT: Yes the jumps are def faster because I have to thumbnail the jump button to SH with fox <3

in short:

Faster jumps work
Faster throw animations don't work

Bad side effects

Grabbing ledge causes glitches
auto l cancel causes glitchs and a wierd slide afterwards

others:

I think the jump speed is too much. Idk what setting its on but if its on 2x can it be 1.5x?

 

[B.W.]

I remember you project. I haven't seen your avatar for a while.

Yeah, on top of life getting in the way, the whole hitstun argument that broke out made me get sick of people not knowing what they were talking about. I was tired of people being unable to agree on something to test something and them pretty much going "We're gonna do it my way or this game will suck for everyone because I know what I'm talking about more than the rest of you."

Seems all those people are gone now though, and we're able to discuss this like civil smashers trying to make a game fun for everyone.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

the lack of freshly produced visual content is, how should i say it, quite disturbing and troubling

 

[SketchHurricane]

The 2x jump speed/throw speed code sounds cool, I'll have to test it out. I think it should probably be 1.5x speed on both of those codes, though. Testing will tell.

BTW, I just played a bunch of games on .05 shield gain, .25 shield damage ratio, and it was awesome! Shields got pretty low at times in almost every match, but we never actually had a break. I can say for sure that it makes shield pressure all the more viable, because when you get your opponents shield that low, you can start to predict what they are going to do to buy themselves time, and react accordingly. In this way, shield pressure pays off without the actual break. Honestly, it's completely your fault if your shield ever breaks, and only a character like Marth or Jiggz should even really pose a break-threat in a serious match.

I really encourage you guys to try out .25 shield damage. C'mon, don't be afraid! Seriously, there was something strangely satisfying about it; through offense, getting your opponent scared enough to shield, then through shield pressure, getting them scared to even shield at all. On the converse, it's even strangely thrilling to be playing on the edge yourself, knowing your shield might actually break if you keep relying on it.

 

[kupo15]

the lack of freshly produced visual content is, how should i say it, quite disturbing and troubling

Why don't you play it yourself? You can have all the videos you want lol. Just wondering

Sketch, 1.5 doesn't sound bad but yea, testing ^_^

 

[Heavyarms2050]

Why don't you play it yourself? You can have all the videos you want lol. Just wondering

i has no wii....

 

[kupo15]

i has no wii....

aw thats a shame. Hopefully you can get one soon or have a friend cousin ect..

 

[zxeon]

Samus, ZSS, and Lucario could stand to go as low as .5-.6 SH.

 

[kupo15]

Is it not possible to separate these codes? I hate the Merger and I'd like smaller things to work with. :\
if not that's ok

wait a tick....

do any of the codes spunit posted include the triple jump fix and dash canceling?


EDIT: nvm.... new merger code this weekend. lol

Correct me if I am wrong but I suspect that soon enough all the codes will be converted to ASM which means that the merger code will be no longer. If this is the case, is there really a point in spending the time updating the merger code anymore? There are only a couple of codes left to be converted into ASM from the merger code anyway. I know I don't have a problem with lines atm without the merger.

I feel bad for Almas' hard work with the merger

 

[B.W.]

Alright, comparison time. First we'll start with Kupo since I did play his first, and I played it longer.

First off, it's as the FAQ says it does feel a bit more Brawlish than Mookie's. It's slowing the floaty air time, all of it. It doesn't feel bad at all really. Though from someone who still plays Melee every **** day of my life I can also say that it's hard to adjust. If we're looking to draw in crowds from Melee's audience, as well as Brawl's, that's not gonna be a pleasing place go to.

Mookie's on the other hand. Gravity was great, short hopping and what not also great. The speed wasn't too fast either, felt excellent. Characters could have fallen a little faster by themselves, but it wasn't that hard to adjust really. But I also know that's being discussed for individual characters. Or at least that's what I think I saw. One thing I can mention though is that something should probably be done about over all knock back or hitstun or whatever way you think would be best tackling it. Characters are way too easy to combo, and they can't escape easily enough until their damage is high and it ends up being too late. DIing is difficult to do when you don't go far away enough from the hit to get away. Prime example being Fox's u-tilt. I wouldn't complain too much if I couldn't trap every single character in it.

I have to say, I like playing with Mookie's better. It just fits on my fingers more.

On some of the disputes, I have input, but it should be taken lightly since I want to go into testing it all further with an actual person, but PSing. Probably should be made a little harder. While we don't see much use for it right now, chances are with enough experimenting we'll find enough to make it so that you have to at least do it on purpose. Reason I say this is because I dropped my controller and it PSed an attack.

Again, that should be taken lightly as I'd like to experment with it more to see if I can find any real big uses. I might have to slap a few people around with a big purple dildo, but it'll be worth it in the end.

One more thing I'd like to add, that apparently was solved by Kupo just a moment ago. When you jump, you can't attack upon getting off the ground. You have to wait a second, and that's annoying. Apparently putting buffer on 1 instead of 0 fixes that.

Like I said before, I'm just trying to keep up with the game. I don't know if any of this has been said yet or what so this is me with minimal knowledge of what's being worked on.

That's all from me for now. I'mma go back to fiddling with things.

~B. Wonder

 

[cobaltblue]

Hey kupa if you have the time, could update your code set? I'd I like to test what you're playing around with currently.

 

[Dan_X]

Okay guys, I have a question, this may be perhaps a ridiculously noobish question, but whatever. I haven't checked out this thread for a week or two-- not as intently as I had been.

Code:
Power Shield window [spunit262]
04B88F20 0000000X

Code:
Aerial Lag Reduction/Legless Ledges [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
C2766C20 00000006
807D007C 80630038
2C030018 40A2000C
C022FFEC FC000072
2C030075 40A2000C
C022FFF0 FC000072
D01F0010 00000000

Code:
Short Hop Height/Dash Speed/Fastfall Speed Multiplier [Almas]
C285765C 00000007
2C002F20 4082000C
C002FFE0 EC200072
2C002F00 4082000C
C01EFFE4 EC200072
2C002F5C 4082000C
C01EFFE8 EC200072
4E800020 00000000

Code:
Shorthop Height/Dash Speed/Fastfall Speed/Aerial Lag Reduction/Lagless Ledges constants
065A9300 00000010
SHORTHOP DASHDASH
FASTFALL 40000000
40A00000 00000000

Code:
Hitstun [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
02B88F48 00030001
04B87AA8 3ECCCCCD

Do these codes coincide with the merged code? Are these meant to go with it? Or has a hitstun code literally been reduced to 2line? I guess my question is are these codes really this short, or what's happening? Can someone explain this?

Thanks-- and no, I don't want to use the code sets, I had one that was working out for me.

I'd rather just understand what these codes do.

 

[Almas]

Everything that has been reduced is standalone.

I'm not too peeved about conversions to ASM code, because character balance can be done using the basis of PWs code. It's still a powerful tool to use.

 

[zxeon]

Everything that has been reduced is standalone.

I'm not too peeved about conversions to ASM code, because character balance can be done using the basis of PWs code. It's still a powerful tool to use.

What do you mean? Explain in detail if you please.

911 posts!

 

[Almas]

Errr...

The codes that PW originally wrote altered the game through very roundabout means, tweaking values to make the game behave as wanted. Spunit did some poking around and found the exact code in the game governing these effects, so was able to create an extremely optimised solution. The length of PWs codes was largely 1) setting up the loop (which the merger removed) and 2) finding the correct value in memory to be changed. It can sort of be viewed like this - PW was changing the data the game stores, while instead spunit modifies the data while the game is looking at it. The exception is the hitstun code, which was found as part of a work of pure genious - spunit found the exact place where all the information about hitstun is stored. How he pulled it off is beyond me.

The body of the code, however, is still useful, as it loops through every player. It also shows me how to access the regions in memory which control character information. For example, I can use it to create a code which changes player Xs shorthop to a fixed value if I really wanted to. This also means it can be used to modify specific moves - the hassle is finding exactly where those moves are stored, though.

Fun fact: The launch power for ROB's shorthop is stored as '1' in memory.

 

[zxeon]

Errr...

The codes that PW originally wrote altered the game through very roundabout means, tweaking values to make the game behave as wanted. Spunit did some poking around and found the exact code in the game governing these effects, so was able to create an extremely optimised solution. The length of PWs codes was largely 1) setting up the loop (which the merger removed) and 2) finding the correct value in memory to be changed. It can sort of be viewed like this - PW was changing the data the game stores, while instead spunit modifies the data while the game is looking at it. The exception is the hitstun code, which was found as part of a work of pure genious - spunit found the exact place where all the information about hitstun is stored. How he pulled it off is beyond me.

The body of the code, however, is still useful, as it loops through every player. It also shows me how to access the regions in memory which control character information. For example, I can use it to create a code which changes player Xs shorthop to a fixed value if I really wanted to. This also means it can be used to modify specific moves - the hassle is finding exactly where those moves are stored, though.

Fun fact: The launch power for ROB's shorthop is stored as '1' in memory.

I thought it was something like that but wasn't sure. Thanks for the explaination almas.

Lol ROB is the origin of short hops.

 

[Starscream]

Prime example being Fox's u-tilt. I wouldn't complain too much if I couldn't trap every single character in it.

I think instead of lowering hitstun too much we should be nerfing these silly moves instead. Increase the knockback on Fox's Utilt just like with Sheik's Ftilt.

 

[B.W.]

I think instead of lowering hitstun too much we should be nerfing these silly moves instead. Increase the knockback on Fox's Utilt just like with Sheik's Ftilt.

I was unsure whether or not we could do that. I was just gonna suggest that we increase knockback all together, but that's actually a better idea. I didn't really want to reduce hitstun too much myself, but I've been absent for a long time so I have no room to really say what should and shouldn't be since I'm still familiarizing myself with the stuff. All I'm here for really is to make suggestions.

Few words before I go to bed though. I changed two things, that I figure I should tell people how they worked out for me. I took Mookie's set and make a few adjustments to toy with myself. All I really did was..

-Up the down gravity to 1.3. I was just fiddling with stuff with this. No real reason as to why I changed it in the first place, but I gotta say it's not too shabby.

-Fiddled with buffer and realized that I didn't know what it was because there was no change in what I wanted it to change. Furthermore what I wanted to change was actually the jump speed since the reason characters weren't executing their aerial attacks fast enough was because their fat ***** aren't getting off the freakin' ground.

Anywho, more fiddling after work tomorrow. I need sleep. Take care people happy B+ing.

~B. Wonder

 

[Minwu]

Instead of giving characters only one airdodge, why not reduce the timeframe of invincibility during the airdodge animation, or double the length of airdodges? I also don't think there's such a thing as lowering hitstun too much especially if it means preventing a move nerf, unless you make hitstun less than Brawl hitstun. Infinite PT stamina is great; but, removing auto switching completely takes away the need of PT's down+b and therefore the novelty factor of having to learn all of them if you learn one of them.

 

[MuBa]

kupo quit being a hooker and add my code set like you agreed >_>

 

[SketchHurricane]

Instead of giving characters only one airdodge, why not reduce the timeframe of invincibility during the airdodge animation, or double the length of airdodges? I also don't think there's such a thing as lowering hitstun too much especially if it means preventing a move nerf, unless you make hitstun less than Brawl hitstun.

There's no such thing as hitstun less than Brawls. Even if you put the code at 0, the hitstun would still be more than vBrawl (assuming the short hitstun code still removes actions at the low level).

I honestly see no problem with Brawl's airdodge. I hardly even airdodge anymore, since jumping is in most cases a better option. If you dodge, it simply keeps you in there range, and a second aerial will probably catch you because of it. It's still good for getting back, but even then I'd still opt for an attack if possible.

 

[Eaode]

Whoever said that .9 shorthops should be the norm with a couple character tweaks (Mookie?), I wholeheartedly agree. Samus and Zamus could use an even larger reduction though. For most of the cast I think .9 is perfect.

Pretty sure that was me n_n;, but I was talking with 1.1 upwards gravity, pretty much all characters do great with .9 SH and 1.1 upgrav. without upwards gravity, Samus and ZSS's SHs were too high, as well as others, and everyone's jumps were still floaty on the way up.

Although a few characters may have their Short hops modified for taste reasons (Marth loses his double Fair but gets sick SHHFLs in return; Some DK players may still want the double Bairs; IDK if anyone still cares about thunderstorming), and some characters' recovery (link/Sonic) should be boosted.

There are a few misconceptions though. 1.1 Upwards gravity doesn't negatively affect Jiggs and Wario's airgames, in fact it boosts their ability to combo and WOP. Also, on 1.1 upgrav and 0.9 shorthops, ALL of Ness's aerials still auto-cancel.

And I'll reiterate that the only characters the actually get a noticeable recovery nerf are Link and Sonic.



PS. I'll have a few more matches up soon!
If you want to check out my matches from ~3 days ago: http://www.youtube.com/user/Eaode

 

[shanus]

So i have something somewhat ridiculous to say. I played MK for a fair amount recently to try and get the feel for his improvements.

MK does not feel ridiculously broken. He is excellent, but characters like diddy feel like the matchup has improved a fair amount and they can actually combo him at 9.5% hitstun. Most of MKs moves do not add much hitstun and although he can combo more than before, it feels like characters like diddy gained a lot more in this matchup. I'll have to explore this a bit further and let you all know, but I surprisingly think that only minor nerfs to MK will do the trick (i.e. knockback on dsmash).

 

[jalued]

i know u prob have already heard this, but if ur going to nerf sheiks ftilt, then at least make her fair decent again, cause sheik is rubbish enough as it is, even with tilt lock (which only works on a few chars anyway)... yeahh thats about it, oh plus there are many more broken moves... like reduce the hitstun on snakes ftilt, or the range of his uptilt,

 

[MuBa]

i know u prob have already heard this, but if ur going to nerf sheiks ftilt, then at least make her fair decent again, cause sheik is rubbish enough as it is, even with tilt lock (which only works on a few chars anyway)... yeahh thats about it

The community is making this game. Not Sakurai. So don't worry about any character's shortcoming cuz they'll be tweaked

 

[Eaode]

Bleh, I have some weird and stupid news.

Due to me initially copying Kupo's codeset and then editing it to my liking, I did not realize there was another SH/Dash/FF Multiplier independent from the Merger Code. I though this was simply a supplement to the merger, like the constant writes or the other small hitstun code. This means I was using two multipliers are the same time, making my shorthops shorter, my Fastfalls faster, and my dashes faster. So I've really been using more extreme values than I thought

I just want to let everyone know, because this seems like something that could easily happen to anyone (in fact I think Kupo's codeset has an additional multiplier in it still.)

I am now testing my values to find a balance that works well again. My old settings (with those complications) were amazing, so I'm striving for that again but more organized.