COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Dark Sonic]

Pretty sure that was me n_n;, but I was talking with 1.1 upwards gravity, pretty much all characters do great with .9 SH and 1.1 upgrav. without upwards gravity, Samus and ZSS's SHs were too high, as well as others, and everyone's jumps were still floaty on the way up.

Sonic doesn't. He starts losing things when you increase upwards gravity (especially in combination with decreased shorthop). Anything past 0.85 SH causes him to lose his SH auto cancel fair, and increasing gravity makes it harder for him to kill with uair and makes up B combos less effective (since he doesn't go as high).

And I'll reiterate that the only characters the actually get a noticeable recovery nerf are Link and Sonic.

We might be able to just exempt them from the gravity changes (0.9 SH is still fine for Sonic, but up grav is a serious problem).

 

[MookieRah]

I didn't really want to reduce hitstun too much myself, but I've been absent for a long time so I have no room to really say what should and shouldn't be since I'm still familiarizing myself with the stuff.

Honestly, the lower we can get the added hit stun the better. Even in melee, the hitstun wasn't extreme. I think it is even less than B+ with 8%. I want combos, crazy combos, but I don't want them to be too easy or leave characters too defenseless. While Kupo and I used to disagree quite a bit on hitstun, we now are pretty much in the same boat. His hitstun is higher due to less downgrav and a slower dash speed, so it roughly evens out to feeling about the same. Whenever the air momentum code comes out you can be sure that will lower hitstun a bit too.

 

[Link_enfant]

What does the air momentum code do exactly ?

 

[Eaode]

Okay, so with that other multiplier, I was actually on 0.81 short hops the whole time! (they were both set to 0.9)

now I'm legitly at 0.85 Shorthops and 1.1 upwards gravity

1.) Marth still has his SHDF.

2.) Mario still has SHDU.

3.) DK lost SHDB, but can SH Bair -> Uair and SH Bair -> DJ <something>

4.) All of sonic's aerials Auto-cancel, except the dair of course.


So yeah. My values are not as extreme now. All my matches on youtube, as well as the two that I'm about to upload soon, are from the .81 shorthops and slightly faster fastfalls.

 

[Shell]

Other than air momentum, I think boosting knockback of spammy utilts a little and a smaller reduction in hitstun would be better than just a larger reduction in hitstun. Does this make sense?

 

[Eaode]

I think that's a good idea, but nothing more than a very slight nerf to utilts. you can DI out of them, and even in Melee there were characters (Fox, Falco, Kirby) that could catch you in utilts at very low %s if you weren't really trying to DI.

 

[MookieRah]

It should be an easy fix to up the knockback slightly on all the ultra spammy tilts. I don't see a need to adjust hitstun at all to compensate for this. Do you think hitstun should be increased if we did this or something?

 

[SketchHurricane]

I think that's a good idea, but nothing more than a very slight nerf to utilts. you can DI out of them, and even in Melee there were characters (Fox, Falco, Kirby) that could catch you in utilts at very low %s if you weren't really trying to DI.

I agree, if we even need the nerf at all. Most legit utilts only combo 3-4 times at low percents, and it's generally hard to even land utilts against space-happy opponents. You can combo into them, but at that point, the damage quickly nerfs the spam anyway.

 

[kupo15]

Bleh, I have some weird and stupid news.

Due to me initially copying Kupo's codeset and then editing it to my liking, I did not realize there was another SH/Dash/FF Multiplier independent from the Merger Code. I though this was simply a supplement to the merger, like the constant writes or the other small hitstun code. This means I was using two multipliers are the same time, making my shorthops shorter, my Fastfalls faster, and my dashes faster. So I've really been using more extreme values than I thought

I just want to let everyone know, because this seems like something that could easily happen to anyone (in fact I think Kupo's codeset has an additional multiplier in it still.)

I am now testing my values to find a balance that works well again. My old settings (with those complications) were amazing, so I'm striving for that again but more organized.

it shouldn't have two sets

kupo quit being a hooker and add my code set like you agreed >_>

I need to talk to sketch.
ANNOUNCEMENT!
No more post my code set requests

Hey kupa if you have the time, could update your code set? I'd I like to test what you're playing around with currently.

Ok Ill do it now. Im closer to mookies code set now

 

[plasmatorture]

So i have something somewhat ridiculous to say. I played MK for a fair amount recently to try and get the feel for his improvements.

MK does not feel ridiculously broken. He is excellent, but characters like diddy feel like the matchup has improved a fair amount and they can actually combo him at 9.5% hitstun. Most of MKs moves do not add much hitstun and although he can combo more than before, it feels like characters like diddy gained a lot more in this matchup. I'll have to explore this a bit further and let you all know, but I surprisingly think that only minor nerfs to MK will do the trick (i.e. knockback on dsmash).

I have a secret:

Spoiler

I feel largely the same way.

He is certainly great still but he is not quite unstoppable. Still, .495 hitstun is quite high (depending on gravity settings and whatnot I guess), so a lot of characters can be comboed more than they might otherwise be.

I'm playing .485 hitstun and it is still too much. Honestly, for a while I was accidentally at .46 something hitstun and I felt like even that was a bit much at times, but since I have no idea how that value got there I don't know how long I actually had it that way. .46 is pretty close to Melee as I recall, though.

I think it's amusing that the Kishes started off Brawl+ at, what, .48? and we all thought they were crazy, and now look at us.

I cannot wait to see the new merger code form Almas so I can make sense of the new codes being added and whatnot.

 

[kupo15]

I can't access the main upload for some reason (pmed sketch) so here is the rapid. The description is in the OP

http://rapidshare.com/files/191689165/brawl_.txt.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/191689166/RSBE01.gct.html

 

[Shell]

.48 was still a very conservative value at the time of the Kish tourney because they didn't have a good gravity code, dash speed code, or hitlag code.

 

[Eaode]

it shouldn't have two sets

The OP did.



So anyway, it wasn't all that bad. The only thing is now my Shorthops are higher (they were pretty low before and now I know why) and I'm on 1.1 FF right now I believe. the jumps are higher and I guess that's how it should be, although now I see peoples' points about ZSS etc. lol

So yea, can't wait for the new merger this weekend :D


NEW VIDS!! they won't disappoint

a last farewell to my 0.81 shorthops o_O;

Eaode (Squirtle) vs SalokiN (Ness) 1
Eaode (Squirtle) vs SalokiN (Ness) 2

^_^ feedback?

 

[Shell]

Hey Kupo, nice new code set. What changed your mind about 1.25 downward gravity?

It's good to see that people are starting to come toward a common code set. Also, Mookie's set actually has 1.25 downward gravity too, so you might want to change your OP summary (says 1.20).

 

[storm92]

kupo, I love the new set.
The only thing I would change is SH height to .9, but I suppose we could wait until we get the individual char SH height code.
What Shell said, its good to see we're coming to a compromise common code set!

 

[CountKaiser]

Nice to see that we may finally settle on a universal set of codes.

Though I wonder, can this ever get into a tourney? If so, wouldn't there be legal issues?

In order for Brawl+ to work, the homebrew channel must be used. Now,I'm sure whoever made the homebrew channel hacked a wii at some point in order to figure out how .wad files work. That breaks the user contract with the wii, I think, thus making homebrew illegal.

As such, I'm sure people would get in trouble were brawl+ to gain any significant limelight.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[trojanpooh]

How do I change hitstun with the newest code?

 

[spunit262]

How do I change hitstun with the newest code?

Hitstun [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
02B88F48 00030001
04B87AA8 3ECCCCCD

 

[Revven]

Nice to see that we may finally settle on a universal set of codes.

Though I wonder, can this ever get into a tourney? If so, wouldn't there be legal issues?

In order for Brawl+ to work, the homebrew channel must be used. Now,I'm sure whoever made the homebrew channel hacked a wii at some point in order to figure out how .wad files work. That breaks the user contract with the wii, I think, thus making homebrew illegal.

As such, I'm sure people would get in trouble were brawl+ to gain any significant limelight.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

You're wrong.

bushing and his crew made the Homebrew Channel ON THEIR OWN. It wasn't using any illegal channel that Nintendo already uses. The HBC itself is NOT illegal, neither and NEVER has Homebrew. The ONLY thing that's illegal about it is the piracy, and that's NOT bushing's and his crew's fault. What we're doing is completely legal.

bushing has this stated somewhere on the hbc site or on the twilight hack site.

 

[trojanpooh]

Hitstun [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
02B88F48 00030001
04B87AA8 3ECCCCCD

Thanks. Thats what I thought but I just wanted to make sure.

 

[grim mouser]

Ah, so many mergers and standalones now...

I use PW's merger- can I use the FF/Hitstun/Dash Speed/etc. constant write and set hitstun to 0 Float to avoid conflict with the 2-line hitstun?

Edit: Nevermind, I think things are changing so much right now that I'll wait for Almas or someone else to fix stuff up. =X

 

[kupo15]

Hey Kupo, nice new code set. What changed your mind about 1.25 downward gravity?

It's good to see that people are starting to come toward a common code set. Also, Mookie's set actually has 1.25 downward gravity too, so you might want to change your OP summary (says 1.20).

Thanks for the feedback. I don't know I decided to try mookie's specs while adding my other features to it and liked it. Hopefully my friends back home agree

kupo, I love the new set.
The only thing I would change is SH height to .9, but I suppose we could wait until we get the individual char SH height code.
What Shell said, its good to see we're coming to a compromise common code set!

That is what I am waiting for.

OP updated

 

[zxeon]

Hey Kupo if you could upload a list of raw codes that would help me a lot.

 

[kupo15]

Hey Kupo if you could upload a list of raw codes that would help me a lot.

what do you mean?

 

[GPDP]

PW's working on HAD? Interesting.

 

[zxeon]

what do you mean?

Put all the codes from the OP in one txt without modifing them.

 

[MookieRah]

Muahah, slowly but surely Kupo's codeset is beginning to mirror mine!!

But in any case, once Almas decides to teach me how to adjust the values on the character specific I'm going to apply gravity specific changes, short hop changes, and the first bout of universal move set buffs on a character by character basis. It's gonna be some sick ****.

 

[spunit262]

P.Trainer Infinite Stamina [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
04A8BDAC 60000000

Aerial Lag Reduction/Lagless Ledges/Quicker Start Jumps/Faster Throws [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
C2766C20 0000000A
807D007C 80630038
2C030018 40A2000C
C022FFEC FC000072
2C030075 40A2000C
C022FFF0 FC000072
2C03000A 40A2000C
C022FFF4 FC000072
2C03003C 40A2000C
C022FFF8 FC000072
D01F0010 00000000

Hack Constance
065A9300 0000001C
SHORTHOP DASHDASH
FASTFALL AERIALAG
LEDGGRAB STARJUMP
THORWSPD 00000000

 

[GPDP]

Awesome stuff, spunit. Simply amazing.

What about dash cancel, no ASL, and the triple jump fix? Will you be converting those as well?

 

[SketchHurricane]

P.Trainer Infinite Stamina [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
04A8BDAC 60000000

WTF Inf. Stamina 1 liner?!?

And the rest is like a mini-merger just for those values, correct?

 

[kupo15]

Muahah, slowly but surely Kupo's codeset is beginning to mirror mine!!

But in any case, once Almas decides to teach me how to adjust the values on the character specific I'm going to apply gravity specific changes, short hop changes, and the first bout of universal move set buffs on a character by character basis. It's gonna be some sick ****.

Slowly but now you need to mirror my extra stuff hahah xD

P.Trainer Infinite Stamina [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
04A8BDAC 60000000

Aerial Lag Reduction/Lagless Ledges/Quicker Start Jumps/Faster Throws [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
C2766C20 0000000A
807D007C 80630038
2C030018 40A2000C
C022FFEC FC000072
2C030075 40A2000C
C022FFF0 FC000072
2C03000A 40A2000C
C022FFF4 FC000072
2C03003C 40A2000C
C022FFF8 FC000072
D01F0010 00000000

Hack Constance
065A9300 0000001C
SHORTHOP DASHDASH
FASTFALL AERIALAG
LEDGGRAB STARJUMP
THORWSPD 00000000

Sweet Spunit! I wonder what will be next on your list!

 

[MookieRah]

Hot **** spunit, you are on a roll. I'm going to update my codeset with this crap.

Slowly but now you need to mirror my extra stuff hahah xD

I'll try out the shield codes, but I'm not using the power shield code.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Kupo, you can upload yo' junk now on my server (that sounded kinda weird...)

Also, people, try out .25 damage ratio already.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

what's .25 damage ratio?

and wtf so many codes, i dont know which one to use :[

 

[zxeon]

Hot **** spunit, you are on a roll. I'm going to update my codeset with this crap.

Please hurry I wanna Play with this stuff nao.

 

[Shadic]

Same here. I'm really liking the rapid standardization of these code sets that we've got going on. It shows that we're a pretty solid community that's able to make up their mind... Which is going to be needed once character specific tweaks become a reality.

 

[plasmatorture]

what's .25 damage ratio?

and wtf so many codes, i dont know which one to use :[

shield damage ratio, the default is .3, and the lower you go the more damage attacks do to shields.

Anyways, after using 1.15 dash speed for forever I switched to 1.17 because mookie and kupo both do (and I assume a lot of other people) and holy **** there's such a huge difference. The biggest difference is that balance is off and you can tech chase too well. I never noticed an issue with 1.15, but 1.17 was ridiculous. Kinda fun, though, so if nobody else feels it's a problem I might just keep it and learn to deal with it...

 

[zxeon]

Can you upload that txt Kupo? Hell upload the whole first page I'm not picky

 

[kupo15]

Im home. I won't be able to for a couple of hours

 

[GPDP]

kupo, do you still have the color-coded merger code? Because I'd like to take off the hitstun, ALR, infinite stamina, and lagless ledges portions from it, now that we have new ASM versions, but I don't know what is what in the code.