Cliffhangers

[1048576]

I agree it doesn't even look hard. You just have to watch whether Puff's body is closer than the edge of the stage, which is pretty unintuitive.

I was basically the biggest 'ban wobbling' advocate on smashboards. Then I got better. Now I agree it's a perfectly legit tactic. Also, did the pound series ban wobbling? What about Genesis? I don't think both of them did, but I could be wrong.

 

[Falco (MOP)]

Good to have the SWF Toolbag Train back together.

talk about a dave thing to say! XD!

shoutouts to dave

 

[Pink Reaper]

Wobbling was never officially banned and is rarely if ever banned on the west coast.

 

[crush]

wobbling was banned for a little bit guys!!!
yall just trying to change the subject because you know safehaven is partially right. safehaven is also wrong though, this jigglypufff technique is completely beatable, but yall call him a troll just because you have no other arguments. his logic is correct, but hes still wrong. ive done this technique vs my little sister, and all i had to do was throw pokeballs at her or jump out and knee her. safehaven is right to say we should side with the people who have actually experienced it, but none of yall even know how easily this technique is to beat. every character, (even broken ones like fawks and failc0) can just jump out and forward air jigglypuff,grab the ledge/die, then hit her again/respawn and hope she dies.

jigglypuff ledgecamp is incredibly easy to beat.

people that use jigglypuff ledgecamp technique are like slaves after a successful revolt;
MAD FREE.

 

[The Star King]

IVE REPLIED TO THAT SPECIFIC ARGUMENT LIKE 5X

im saying given WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THIS TACTIC AT A HIGH LEVEL (not much)

that its better to go with the smart players who have experienced it over the other players who only have theory

Axe experienced it. Axe doesn't think it's broken.

/yourargument

EDIT:

Oh and just throwing this out there cuz I know it was mentioned a few times in this thread...

I don't think you need to be a top pro to understand a lot of concepts in this game. I don't like it when people say "oh, we're not gonna listen to you cuz you don't place in tournaments, or you're not a top pro or etc." There's still a lot of smashers who aren't considered really good who I look up to and go to them for advice because they're smart, and they know a lot about Melee even though they can't perform it.

One of your beloved experienced players debunking the very basis for your argument. How do you feel?

And by the way, I'm not even against it being banned. I don't claim to know whether it's really broken or not, so I'm on the fence about it. It's just that you make the pro-ban side look bad with your awful arguments (or trolling, if that's what you're doing).

 

[gghhh3]

scrubby TOs meaning the TOs for every major tournament

Apex my friend, Apex.

 

[hungrybox]

I tried doing this while playing melee two days ago


Fox can just waveland onto the edge while jiggs is off it

fox is fast

 

[Brookman]

ITS UNBEATABLE

duuuuh

Maybe the fox player was doing it wrong?? cause he's supposed to just get frustrated and do stupid **** and then get gimped. I've come to the conclusion you were both doing it wrong.

 

[Linguini]

I'm not going to lie it was pretty fullproof, especially against a slower char like ganon that sheik can just prey on from the edge. But m2k doing it is the worst it's ever going to get lol I doubt anyone else could do it that flawlessly.

I agree with aziz, there should be a rule..because at times he was planking for 20-30 seconds at a time LOL

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Linguini, Ganondorf has lots of ways to stop Jigglypuff's planking in-theory.

I can't say how they'd work in practice, but they don't look that difficult.

 

[safehaven]

Axe experienced it. Axe doesn't think it's broken.

/yourargument

EDIT:


One of your beloved experienced players debunking the very basis for your argument. How do you feel?

And by the way, I'm not even against it being banned. I don't claim to know whether it's really broken or not, so I'm on the fence about it. It's just that you make the pro-ban side look bad with your awful arguments (or trolling, if that's what you're doing).

axe hasnt experienced it (ROFL)

and u dont even know what debunking means.... lollll

also u are the worst poster on smashboards PERIOD
lmao ANYWAY

hax is totally stupid and obviously this tactic is easy to get around, its just that the best falcon in the US thinks it should be banned.. obviously you know what youre talking about. go crawl into your little hole again please.

 

[Rubyiris]

axe hasnt experienced it (ROFL)

and u dont even know what debunking means.... lollll

also u are the worst poster on smashboards PERIOD
lmao ANYWAY

hax is totally stupid and obviously this tactic is easy to get around, its just that the best falcon in the US thinks it should be banned.. obviously you know what youre talking about. go crawl into your little hole again please.

M2K posted twice that Axe did experience it. You obviously have selective memory.

 

[safehaven]

ok so axe experienced it... and didnt beat it?

and hax experienced it and thought it should be banned. and m2k thought it should be banned. and linguini thinks it should be banned..

I honestly didnt know axe had, but im still going with the majority so peace

long story short smashboards are stupid people who like to argue. ive said everything important but am still getting trolled by bad kids so w/e

 

[ZoSo]

^Covered all options.

 

[OverLord]

I told ya he was the best! Matter of time!

 

[The Star King]

PoundSlap was funnier. VBM was more provocative.

So he's not the best. He was pretty successful at destroying this thread, though. I'll give him that.

 

[1048576]

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.

Being the best player != knowing the best way to beat puff planking.

 

[Rubyiris]

ok so axe experienced it... and didnt beat it?

and hax experienced it and thought it should be banned. and m2k thought it should be banned. and linguini thinks it should be banned..

I honestly didnt know axe had, but im still going with the majority so peace

long story short smashboards are stupid people who like to argue. ive said everything important but am still getting trolled by bad kids so w/e

Axe explained that even though he had experienced it, he has discovered ways of beating it as Pikachu. Magus showed through frame data how captain falcon and ganondorf can beat it. Fox is fast enough to steal the ledge vs sheik and puff with very little risk to himself. Characters with arcing projectiles can disrupt or beat it out.

Just because those players are good doesn't change the fact that they didn't think of the solutions to the problems other players did. Furthermore Axe also explained that there are plenty of players far worse than him that are far more knowledgeable about the game than he, and many players of his caliber are.

I agree that generally smashboards is a cesspool or garbage, but in this case you're unwilling to accept that your, and their argument is flawed and has been debunked by irrefutable evidence. When Eggm explained this in the past, we debunked it then, and now we have Magus showing the frame data that Jigglypuff is NOT invulnerable, something that anyone attentive should have noticed without frame data. Anyone who pays any attention should notice that puffs head is exposed when she does a mid air jump to grab the ledge, and that she'd not invincible when she ledgehops back to the stage

What more do you need us to prove to you before you accept that yours, and the OP's arguments are flawed?

 

[Brookman]

I just ate a bowl of mashed potatoes using an unbeatable strategy.

 

[crush]

I just ate a bowl of mashed potatoes using an unbeatable strategy.

you picked metaknight vs a bowl of mashed potatoes??

 

[Strong Badam]

i give up, i cant stand the ***********

apparently you didn't give up and you can stand our supposed ***********

 

[safehaven]

i gave up on convincing the people who obviously made up their minds permanently the first time they saw the thread

im still posting for lolz and to see how many reasoning errors can exist in one thread

 

[1048576]

I have not made up my mind permanently. You have. My POV is basically: Hax and M2K stated a hypothesis. Now it's time to test it by doing it in a tourney and recording it. Until then, the negative is the default position, same as I don't think invisible unicorns roam the earth enforcing gravity, even though I don't know for sure.

And if you think Wobbling's broken then you're just not good enough to recognize that other top tiers have 0-death combos too, or at least strings that can cover any given option.

 

[Brookman]

Safehaven is trolling, people. Just ignore him and he will go away. He is apparently borderline ********.

 

[safehaven]

lmao

bro im like 10x smarter than u at least LOLL and am not trolling

their hypothesis is better supported than any other hypothesis

i dont think wobbling is broken. it was banned while not being broken

this isnt broken

rofl how is a simple argument this difficult to follow?

implying that making up your mind means you are then immune to change is also slightly funny

 

[Strong Badam]

im still posting for lolz and to see how many reasoning errors can exist in one thread

the more you post, the more are made

 

[Walt]

bro im like 10x smarter than u at least LOLL and am not trolling

I do not have a reaction image that is reactionary enough for this post

 

[Pink Reaper]

lmao

bro im like 10x smarter than u at least LOLL and am not trolling

their hypothesis is better supported than any other hypothesis

i dont think wobbling is broken. it was banned while not being broken

this isnt broken

rofl how is a simple argument this difficult to follow?

implying that making up your mind means you are then immune to change is also slightly funny

Their hypothesis is that a tactic that as of yet almost doesnt exist in the tournament scene is broken enough to warrant a ban under the assumption that Hax couldnt beat it in friendlies. Ignoring all the logical holes there, they are bringing up a non-issue and demanding a new rule put in place simply because, again, hax couldnt beat something in a friendly. More so, Magus has put forth frame data proving that it isnt a perfect unbeatable strategy as it has holes in, opening to hit Jiggs. They have been legitimately proven wrong AND this is a strategy that basically doesnt exist in the tournament scene, there's no reason for this to be brought up.

Also, you're still being ********. Wobbling was never officially banned. I can bring up both the old and new MBR rulesets where Wobbling is not in fact banned. Obviously TOs have the right to ban whatever they want at their tournaments, and it has happened, but no, it was never officially banned.

Also, you should stick to one account so i dont have to keep putting you on my ignore list.

 

[ZoSo]

Unless we can agree on a clear set of criteria for what is banworthy, this discussion is kind of pointless. Even then, it's probably pointless because ultimately TOs are just going to ban whatever they want to ban like they always have.

 

[1048576]

Yeah, except its so lopsided that it shouldn't be banned right now. FFS nobody's even made it out of pools with this yet.

 

[Jonas]

i dont think wobbling is broken. it was banned while not being broken

this isnt broken

rofl how is a simple argument this difficult to follow?

So

It ISN'T broken, but it should be banned anyway?

 

[crush]

i dont think hax/m2k were trying to say it should be banned just because it was unbeatable. i think hax and m2k thought it should be banned because it allows worse players to beat better players, and overall if someone is camping the ledge the whole match like in barwl its just stupid. i dont really care if its unbeatable or not i would just want it to be banned because nobody wants to watch/play matches where worse players beat much better players in an 8 minute match camping the ledge with puff.

 

[Mogwai]

this discussion is uninteresting to me, I am just here to reunite the toolbag train. <3

 

[Brookman]

I don't think wobbling is relevant to the conversation at hand.

 

[Sinji]

I dont think its unbeatable. theirs ways how to confront it.

 

[Rubyiris]

THERE ARE WAYS. Their shows ownership. Holy **** man.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I wish Falco's gun shot misfiring Luigis at the opponent.

 

[Pi]

i came in here to see what KK had to post
even though i hate him
i was not dissapointed

 

[AvengerAngel]

I love KK's posts

 

[Brookman]

KK makes the best posts, ever.