Cliffhangers

[safehaven]

u understand why its not a matter of proof?

no u dont, which is sad

ur not dumb cause u disagree with me or anyone else, you are dumb because you post the stupidest **** i have ever seen. its not about your beliefs, its that you say stupid and illogical things, and pretty much ignore everything but what u already believe

i find it hilarious that no one even responds to my posts and just tells me im wrong over and over again, because either u 1) dont read them (very probable) or 2) u dont know how to respond. even if u did read them, u wont understand them, and your response will be even more bull****.

and hax and m2k probably dont even care that i listen to them, adn probably want me to stop posting.

but lets look at the evidence here:
-top level smashers first hand experience

then theres this other stuff called
-former lurkers theorycraft and knee jerk reactions
-top level smashers with no experience

im going with the first set. sure, if u want to, go with the second set of evidence, but yeah you know i wouldnt recommend it

tldr u guys are bad at thinking and posting

 

[Grim Tuesday]

M2K has also been known to say things like Jigglypuff is the best character in Melee, and many ridiculous things about Brawl like Oli having an advantage over Meta Knight.

He is good, but that doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about all the time.

 

[safehaven]

you know what

u are right

he could very well be wrong and so could hax

and maybe brookman and jpobs are actually right

but lets consider the evidence seen two posts ago.

and i think looking at that its better to go with m2k and hax

cause it seems more probable with what is actually available to know

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Or I could look at the frame data that Magus posted, which means a lot more than anecdotal evidence.

 

[Jonas]

but lets look at the evidence here:
-top level smashers first hand experience

This is what I meant when I wrote:

But yeah, Safehaven has yet to provide any argument besides "M2K and Hax say so."

You keep saying the same thing over and over.

 

[1048576]

So guys I just disproved evolution.

Bible says so
Q.E.D


That JMan didn't know how to beat Amsah's shino-stalling at Pound suggests to me that the best players are not necessarily the best in-game strategists. Things like tech-skill, prediction, reflexes, spacing, etc... have nothing to do with figuring out how to beat planking, but they have much to do with how good you are at tourneys. Magus has demonstrated throughout his time on smashboards that his game knowledge is second to none, which is really what this is all about. His frame data and hitbox analysis are much more convincing IMO than M2K and Hax's prophecy. That said, hypotheses require evidence. Capture this on video with both players trying their hardest and we can maybe take this more seriously. Before anyone brings it up, that Falco video doesn't cut it because that Falco wasn't even trying to get Jiggs off the ledge, to the point that any character's planking could have stalled out that Falco.

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

[Brookman]

At the highest level of game-play planking is beatable by fox and falco because these characters are broken. I'm not claiming to be able to play at this level consistently or even at all. Maybe no one can play at this level (theory) .

Although m2k and hax are great tournament players, they are effectively just two dudes playing in their basement and one player comes up with something that the other has no solution for. It was like back in 07 when m2k started abusing dash back/pivot grab vs approach happy spacies. For the players at the time this became effectively unbeatable and m2k's gimping also skewed risk/reward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc&t=2m20s <-- shiz plays into his unbeatable strategy

Speaking of yoshi's story, does the slanted edge have an effect on puff's ability to plank?? Also, iirc, FoD has uneven edges too, does FoD have an effect on puff's planking??

Funny Quotes:

Spoiler

it's broken with jiggs, it certainly isn't broken with sheik though hax.

axe i cant believe you think it's not broken after i did that to you taj and forward at Devastation 2010 =/

edit - wait nvm pikachu can actually just do his thunder jolt to get around it

i still think it gives a big advantage vs the fast fallers though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8twwXHDIVBc <-- unbeatable strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt7BEfVS8v8 <-- unbeatable strategy


Seriously, if this is only "broken" vs. fast fallers, bring back Onett.

 

[safehaven]

fox and falco are not broken LOL
the bible doesnt say anything about evolution rofl

also no one is arguing that its unbeatable, and its not an argument to authority to use top players experience as evidence
im stunned how u are actually trying to use argument to authority against me. yes u are really that bad WTF

the thing is your theorycraft is about something u have never experienced. that imo makes it pretty bad to rely upon

 

[Niko45]

what's the over-under on how old safehaven is?

I'll just go ahead and set it at 14 just to make it interesting.

 

[Brookman]

isn't 12 the go-to age for board trolls like that?

 

[hungrybox]

Poundslap was better

 

[Brookman]

que pasa??

 

[OverLord]

Poundslap was better

Give him time, he's on his way to the top.

 

[Brookman]

also no one is arguing that its unbeatable

...

one of many.

 

[ZoSo]

Nobody will ever top virusbluemage.

 

[safehaven]

i like how brookman highlighted the part where hax implied that it was beatable

"oh look its a troll. my posts are really bad and i thing people have their own personal logic. but obviously hes the troll and im actually very smart"

brookman its not one of many. its not even one. like are u kidding... u failed to directly quote someone when trying to support your pov

i give up, i cant stand the ***********

 

[Brookman]

slippery sloping straw men with ad hominems

 

[Max?]

Brookman is the best poster of all time.

 

[ZoSo]

Well I guess we know who's the bigger troll now.

 

[Brookman]

Brookman is the best poster of all time??

fixed /10

Brookman, ZoSo+, Fly_Amanita, Max?+, Twinkles, Grunt, safehaven, Veetaak, Utzz, OverLord

 

[ZoSo]

Good to have the SWF Toolbag Train back together.

 

[The Star King]

I kind of feel sorry for Hax. He brought up a legitimate concern to Melee Discussion's attention, but then safehaven ruined this thread and made Hax's/M2K's side look bad.

Oh well.

 

[Sinji]

Good to have the SWF Toolbag Train back together.

Yea for real.

 

[Max?]

All we need is mogwai, Cogsmooch and P.O.F., then the party really starts.

 

[Falco (MOP)]

Can someone record m2k doing this? It would be very enjoyable to watch ieo

he did it to me at ROM3... it's not fun... and if it's not fun playing in friendlies, i cant imagine it'd be fun watching it in seriouslies xD

 

[crush]

yall all noobs
jiggs ledgecamp technique is worse than kirby-abuse-down-b tactic and falco-mini-jump-laser-spam technique combined and divided by 2. real men just jump out from halfway across the stage and knee jigglypuff when she floats back up like i do. if worse comes to worse and your c stick + a button are broken, yall just need to wait on the stage until a pokeball, motion sensor bomb, bob-omb, or other throwable item spawn. yall need to stop saying things are broken and looking into tunnels with no light at the end and start thinking like me, harold and the purple crayon style.

 

[Brookman]

Spoiler

Hosted by Alukard
1: jman
2: hax
3: cactuar
4: swift
5: tec0
5: nintendude
7: g$
7: tuna
9: otg

Spoiler

dooshebayg ;D

9: twebb
9: StriCNYN3
9: harriet the guy
13: chain-ace
13: bailey
13: storms
13: abate
17: MIK
17: mcem
17: valo
17: Grey Fox
17: metal reeper
17: ILM
17: My tummy hurts
17: niko
25: kidd
25: mane
25: anub
25: KCS
25: rykard
25: d-block
25: smellycat

Why isn't there a puff player here making al lthe money??

Noted -
good **** @swift

 

[JPOBS]

Virusbluemage will never be topped. He said things that (at the time) might have actually been true even though they were outrageous.

God/savehaven/Poundslap ain't got **** on the homie VBM

 

[Walt]

I liked the part on the future where this thread gets locked.

 

[safehaven]

i like where im a troll even though my arguments are valid

and no one has a good reason to go with theorycraft over experience

cause no one understands this is what that is

either that or they 4 stocked the local puff main who tried to randomly do it one game and now their ego is only encouraged

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So... if M2K said that Fox's Shine came out on Frame 5 and Hax agreed, you'd believe them?

 

[safehaven]

IVE REPLIED TO THAT SPECIFIC ARGUMENT LIKE 5X

im saying given WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THIS TACTIC AT A HIGH LEVEL (not much)

that its better to go with the smart players who have experienced it over the other players who only have theory

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Can we go with the player (Magus) who proved it wasn't broken with frame data instead?

 

[safehaven]

it doesnt have to be invincible to be banned

magus proved that frame perfectly u can still be hit

how is that even relevant? playing ice climbers doesnt make u invincible but wobbling was still banned, because the tactic was seemingly "unfair" enough that people didnt think they should have to deal with it

wobbling is banned at every national

can we just wake up and realize that all our reasons on paper are bad and none of you have ever experienced it?

and that u just want to believe the opinion u first conceived and dont want to let go of it. ok then now that your answer is no, go back to calling me a troll and giving ****ty arguments why your cluelessness is somehow supreme

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wobbling was banned for idiots, by idiots.

 

[safehaven]

uhhhhhh.....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

 

[Jonas]

Wobbling is banned by scrubby TO's, not the Smash community itself or the MBR:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=257229

 

[safehaven]

scrubby TOs meaning the TOs for every major tournament?

regardless of your opinion on the specific technique, saying something has to be frame perfect for it to be broken, and by extension banworthy, is a very respectable view which no one actually has.

if u honestly think that nothing should be banned unless its actually completely unbeatable, then I have nothing to say rofl

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I never said anything about frame perfect, I just said that frame data proves that it is beatable.

If you actually looked at the .gifs and were half decent at the game, you'd see that planking is pretty easily beaten (i.e. not ban-worthy), in fact. None of this frame perfect bs.

Oh, and yes, any TO who bans Wobbling is either scrubby or catering for scrubs.