ChuDatz Presentz: ChuDat's dojo - Yellow Belt $300 Pot! - 6.27.09 - LIVESTREAM UP!

[Plairnkk]

brawl is stupid and boring

 

[SOVAman]

If you ban infinites ban mk too its only fair.

 

[Rang3]

brawl is stupid and boring

Then stop traveling for it to win easy money only to lose to Vex and Rouge pit, idiot.

 

[Omni]

Lol @ EE.

IC's are like Zangief. Players without projectiles have a hard time against him. The strategy is to simply poke and run. If they get impatient, punish an opening until it's no longer safe. Then GTFO, rinse, and repeat.

Kirby is really good when he gets inside of his opponent EXCEPT against IC's. Still, I believe Kirby has the tools to deal with IC's; just ain't as effective as other characters.

Win the first match. If you lose the 2nd match, take them to Frigate or Norfair. xD

 

[meepxzero]

Lol @ EE.

IC's are like Zangief. Players without projectiles have a hard time against him. The strategy is to simply poke and run. If they get impatient, punish an opening until it's no longer safe. Then GTFO, rinse, and repeat.

Kirby is really good when he gets inside of his opponent EXCEPT against IC's. Still, I believe Kirby has the tools to deal with IC's; just ain't as effective as other characters.

Win the first match. If you lose the 2nd match, take them to Frigate or Norfair. xD

I tell everyone if they really wanna win take me to an awful stage and play gay. No one listens. You should know to throw away all honor when u play brawl lol. O well too bad i actually practice infiniting on bad stages now XD so they might not be so bad.... I actually like RC now the slopes create ice block trixies.

its funny how everyone throws advice to chu on how to beat me even myself....

 

[hova]

not getting grabbed by D3 at least once or twice a game is borderline impossible. not getting grabbed once or twice by ICs isn't

nah, if you're using DK or Bowser IC will definitely grab you once or twice... at least Meep will

i could definitely go an entire set without getting grabbed DDD vs Peach



edit: Chu you should definitely pick up IC just to fight Meep. you can work on the infinite on your own and you're smart enough to pick up the rest relatively quickly

 

[Atomsk_92]

Hova wanna try and not get grabbed by me




If you can I'll give you another hug XD

 

[chillindude829]

hey chu i think im teaming with azen at this, just lettin you know

 

[Famous]

You think I have no idea?

Do you have any idea what it feels like to get infinited?

Your complaints match my complaints.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7eoAp5YFs
Tell me that this is fair.

I don't care if its banned or not since I break out of the grabs anyway...If it is banned it will just give me more time to gimp...lolz

Lol, my button mashing skills from Mario Party transferred to Brawl...Oh yeah, wanna Mario Party Rematch Boss? I got that star at the last minute...so funny

 

[ChuDat]

i understand the concept if i get grabbed against ic then i lose a stock. I know me and lain dont really give a sh*t how gay you have to play against us to win because we can take stocks in a blink of an eye. Its just how brawl is. We dont like this game and we play for money. I mean i love it when i play ic LOL, but otherwise i find it boring. If people in midwest dont think its broken then why do you?

Your in the backroom now why dont u convince the community to get it banned chu. Then al accept it being banned permanently. You just have a nasty biased against me because you havent beat me in tourney in a while.

Its really hard to compare brawl ic to melee ic. Ic matches when played correctly in brawl are all high risk/high reward. A good example is when i played steve. He messed up he died. If i messed up my nana died. Ic speed up the boring process of how brawl should be played. Yah its broken, but its a different way of how brawl is approached. Its like when you have to play mk, you have to approach the match up completely different (camp excessively). Its just you havent found the best way to beat it. Everyone in my crew knows how to fight me so it is beatable. Even hovas random characters can beat me.

If you really want al just limit the grabs against u chu. The people who can beat me really dont care.

This just makes me not wanna go to your tournies. i have no idea if thats ur goal, but yah. I probably wouldnt be such a bish about it, but yah im the only ice climber player LOL. So i have to kinda defend the other few ice climbers out there because there are literally none. No one will feel inclined to learn them and i really want more people to play them even if i have to deal with lame ic dittos.

Sorry man i love you and all, but i cant help but feel personally attacked when i do lose in tourney to other people. Even greg and boss came close to beating me with last hit last stock.

Yeah, I'm not stopping you from infiniting other people if they think it's beatable. If you want to limit your chain grabs against me, I'm perfectly fine with that and I won't ban the infinite. I just hate losing to the infinite 5-7 tournies in a row. It's really frustrating. I don't care about other Ice Climber players because I already know how to beat them anyway, I just choose not to play like that.

So, how does that sound?

dooo eeet Chu, just asking for 5 grabs like the ICies get, not unlimited ones

If you want me to make a rule on DDD's infinite, I will ban it. I think it should be banned anyways.

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah, I'm not stopping you from infiniting other people if they think it's beatable. If you want to limit your chain grabs against me, I'm perfectly fine with that and I won't ban the infinite. I just hate losing to the infinite 5-7 tournies in a row. It's really frustrating. I don't care about other Ice Climber players because I already know how to beat them anyway, I just choose not to play like that.

Did you really just make a new rule "ICs infinites are banned, but only against me"?

 

[meepxzero]

alright man im gonna limit it to what i consider 5 alt grabs against u (might be 6, but i only really count the tossing back and forth as the grabs). Just because i need it to end where nana is the last one grabbing. I think its fair because u know the match up a little better than b4. I know its frustrating chu, but u play characters that are hard countered by ice climbers and im possibly the best ice climber player out there =\. Its kinda like when u played doll in melee all the time he was ur hard counter. I guess i kinda replaced doll now.

Im pretty sure u can keep up or beat any ic player like u said because all there gonna do is try to grab u or blizzard spam. If they blizzard spam just camp harder. I never blizzard anymore because it just promotes more camping. My style kinda forces people to fight me because im always constantly trying to pressure people.

 

[Rang3]

pure lulz

 

[Plairnkk]

I'm not usually one for banning things, but honestly, both the IC and DDD infinites are stupid and should be banned. It's literally the EXACT same premise as wobbling in melee. Difficulty to execute and viability of a character without a given tactic should have absolutely NOTHING to do with the legality of that given tactic. Whether or not a tactic is fair and whether it is hard to do or without it a character isn't able to compete are really not relevant. The IC freeze glitch was banned in melee because it took complete control away from the character who has it done to them, leaving them literally 100% helpless to any % until the player executing decides to end it (in death). Why has that tactic been universally banned in years and years of melee, but wobbling+the infinites still considered to be legal sometimes? It's stupid.

Bottom line to me is if you take 100% complete control of a character away for an undetermined (potentially infinite) amount of time while dealing damage and ending in the ability to kill directly out of it.... it's really a no brainer for me.

 

[complexity1234]

bring up IC situation in the sbr because there are other IC's doing it. One grab = stock :/.

Thing is, they arent as good as meep but they still get away with doing the infinite so its quite annoying.
Which is why it hasnt been looked at seriously yet.

Yea certain characters like snake/MK/ diddy can avoid it but its not like that for every character. And one grab is all it takes. Same stupid thing like wobbling in melee.
Maybe the IC's will be forced to do a certain chain grab, or nothing, etc etc. Something has to be enforced.
Dedede's standing infinite is easier and more common to take place, but the end result is the same, which is why i think it should be banned.

 

[JCaesar]

Even with the infinite, ICs still have more bad matchups than MK, and they will never dominate the tourney scene like MK does. The infinite sucks when it's being done to you, but it will never break the Brawl metagame like some other perfectly legal things do.

 

[Plairnkk]

Even with the infinite, ICs still have more bad matchups than MK, and they will never dominate the tourney scene like MK does. The infinite sucks when it's being done to you, but it will never break the Brawl metagame like some other perfectly legal things do.

See where we differ is you are looking at the character as a whole, while I'm looking at the specific tactic and what I feel should be the legality of it, regardless of the character it is on.

 

[HAT]

See where we differ is you are looking at the character as a whole, while I'm looking at the specific tactic and what I feel should be the legality of it, regardless of the character it is on.

you're ghey

also, ban IC infinites, and DDD infinites.

there are fighting games literally based upon infinites-- smash is clearly not the kind of game that should allow infinites

or pokemon stadium in any form

 

[TheTantalus]

hmmmm I like the point->counterpoint discussions that have been going on here.

I think now that we have everyone's opinion on the matter, we should probably discuss solutions to the problem, for those who support banning infinites. My proposed solutions:

1. Back throw chains are illegal- Force the IC's to move forward on the stage, thus making it non infinite
2. Back throw AND Forward throw chains are illegal- If they just do fthrow to fthrow, they can small step their way accross the stage and spike you. Down throws already are chain locks anyways for most of the cast at low%. Nana can pick up the next down throw, then Popo, etc.
3. include #2 + icicle locks are banned, basically they can grab you into an icicle lock (much like a falco laser lock, peach bair trap, etc.) and you can't get out till you get to the other side of the stage.
4. Ban Ice Climbers grab alt grabs. They are not allowed to do any consecutive grabs other than the normal dash to down throw chain at low %. Nana and Popo are not allowed to alternate at ALL, or DQ. The only time this would be ok is if it chain started with Nana on accident and went to Popo. As long as they are dashing for the down throws.
5. Ban Ice Climbers character. Without the chains, they are useless anyways right?
6. Ban ALL infinites, or close to infinites, for instance:

- Pikachu 100% grab on Fox
- Wario 105% grab on DK
- D3 Small step/Infinites on Luigi/Samus/Mario/DK/Bowser
- Any alternating IC's grabs
- Any IC's grab to icicle lock
- All laser locks

Thoughts?

7. Don't ban anything.

Chu should change the topic title to "Chu Dat's DOJO, the smash backroom of MD/VA"

 

[_Kadaj_]

DK can escape that chain grab

but those CG's are not until they die its more of a Marth up throw from melee or a falcon d throw they actually END and have limits

laser locks are higly situational

D3's walking cg is banned


the only ones on that list worth banning are
D3 Small step/Infinites on Luigi/Samus/Mario/DK/Bowser
- Any alternating IC's grabs
- Any IC's grab to icicle lock

But if its that big a deal..
Just do a 3-4 limit Grab

 

[Plairnkk]

Yeah I agree. If it DOES end, even at 100%, it should be legal. The problem with that Tantalus, is that "close to" infinites is subjective. Something is either infinite or it is not, thus making the decision much easier. Something that is "close to" being infinite, although perhaps being unfair, does nothing but put up a grey wall where both sides minds can interpret it in either way. That's why I only pick at the -true- infinites. Hell, I'm even okay with DDD's small step CG, lol.

 

[meepxzero]

fine i just wont bthrow anymore happy? Doesnt matter if i just cg to the ledge and spike people which i do more than 80% of the time. I mean its not an infinite it ends to the ledge.

my gripe is u ban ic cg u kill the character. If i can get ice climbers banned in brawl then i can quit the game knowing i accomplished something meaningful.

Its physically impossible to infinite with ice climbers the timing is retardedly stupid after 200%+ please call it a chain grab.

 

[Emperor Time]

But what's the point of going up to something like 180-200%? You're pretty much set for the kill near the mid 100's.

 

[Plairnkk]

we should just play melee anyway ~_~

 

[meepxzero]

because infinites are defined as used to stall games. Wobbles was a true infinite because you could physically go up to 999%

I dunno bout DDDs infinite might be the same. I know its physically impossible to cg with ic to 999%.

i agree with plank this game causes nothing bout *****ing and moaning. Either that or brawl +

 

[ChuDat]

alright man im gonna limit it to what i consider 5 alt grabs against u (might be 6, but i only really count the tossing back and forth as the grabs). Just because i need it to end where nana is the last one grabbing. I think its fair because u know the match up a little better than b4. I know its frustrating chu, but u play characters that are hard countered by ice climbers and im possibly the best ice climber player out there =\. Its kinda like when u played doll in melee all the time he was ur hard counter. I guess i kinda replaced doll now.

Im pretty sure u can keep up or beat any ic player like u said because all there gonna do is try to grab u or blizzard spam. If they blizzard spam just camp harder. I never blizzard anymore because it just promotes more camping. My style kinda forces people to fight me because im always constantly trying to pressure people.

No johns.

I guess I can agree to 5-6 ~_~, if it will solve our argument. Cool, now we are in agreement.

Jcaesar - It's not a rule per say but more of an agreement between people, otherwise I'll just make the rule and ban it.

ALL OTHER INFINITES ARE CHARACTER SPECIFIC MATCH-UPS and should NOT be considered as illegal, otherwise we will just have a huge mess of rules that people don't want to go through, memorize, learn, ect. The only other debatable infinite is DDD's. It's a true infinite and should be banned.

 

[Deleted member]

just so you guys know, banning char specific infinites might be a good thing. Most players only play 2-3 characters and it won't be difficult for them to know if a tactic their character has is banned. It might also give others more direction when they make rules, cause if known tournament hosts start banning ****, others might follow.

MD/VA isn't the only region that wants this **** banned. NY/NJ banned the DDD infinite last year sometime.

 

[Rang3]

I'm just going to do whatever then deny it when someone reports me, get at my n!gganess.

 

[Hidden MachineS]

I'm just going to do whatever then deny it when someone reports me, get at my n!gganess.

This. Nobody is going to be able to count grabs unless the match has a crowd. What about in earlier matches, or matches where nobody is watching? You're going to have to appoint a judge to watch. It's not like the ledge grab rule where the game records the number of grabs after the match. And if EE is playing Johnny Noob, and nobody is watching the match, and EE infinites him, who's Johnny Noob gonna report to?

 

[meepxzero]

mow itll never get banned in sbr. I garentee you more than half the sbr backroom will not ban it.

 

[GimR]

Hey, the foot stool to Iceblock chain grab isn't an infinite


after a certain percent(Something like 130%) the block freezes you instead of making you stand up.

Also, the B-throw to footstool to Iceblock chain grab can be Di'd away from by all character except something like 7.

So you have to do a F-throw to Footstool to iceblock on most characters, and this forces you towards the edge, this is in no way an infinite so it shouldn't be banned.

 

[JCaesar]

Jcaesar - It's not a rule per say but more of an agreement between people, otherwise I'll just make the rule and ban it.

Ok so it's not officially on the books, but it is a "rule" in effect. You're saying that he can infinite anyone except you, solely because you're the TO and you make the rules and you personally can't beat it. I'm not trying to call you out or anything but you must realize how this looks from an outside perspective.

This is what Brawl does to people...

 

[meepxzero]

its fine lol chu likes his money and i respect it.

 

[ChuDat]

D@mn, Meep. I say no johns and you personally attack me. Good ****.

 

[ChuDat]

This. Nobody is going to be able to count grabs unless the match has a crowd. What about in earlier matches, or matches where nobody is watching? You're going to have to appoint a judge to watch. It's not like the ledge grab rule where the game records the number of grabs after the match. And if EE is playing Johnny Noob, and nobody is watching the match, and EE infinites him, who's Johnny Noob gonna report to?

The person who is getting chain grabbed would obviously keep count. No need for a judge.

Jcaesar - Yeah, I knew that was coming anyway. I don't care, really. I just want to be done with the argument and finally have something that we can both agree on. It's whatever.

 

[Plairnkk]

****. Chu is angry!!!!!

 

[Hey_its_YO]

This game is tearing us apart...

 

[hova]

why am I so good with Peach? People can't even try to claim any kind of gayness after I beat them

get at me MD/VA

 

[ChuDat]

****. Chu is angry!!!!!

WTF though Chu, so are you saying you were disrespecting people when you infinited them in melee?

I wobbled people when all they did was shoot missles !!!!!!

Yeah... sorry about that lash. I edited my post. Could u do the same raft?

MD/VA should be united against NY/NJ. That's the whole point of this tournament. We should be working together and figuring out ways to become the best region in the United States again.

I'll eventually have a mutual agreement with Meep, haha. Stupid game..

 

[meepxzero]

What respect do you have when you infinite people? You do anything for the money. I at least have honor. Your claim is that the Ice Climbers are not usable in tournament but you have no proof of that. Go to a tournament and place top 3 with the "chaingrab" limited to 3-6 grabs and see how you do.

You really cant compare ur honorable ic in melee to my dishonorable ic in brawl. People play brawl gay and not honorable. I only care about getting my character up in the tier list. I wouldnt have splited with you at your last dojo if i did care about money. I was like you in melee where i didnt wobble either. Its a completely different game now.

You try playing ic with infinites chu and place top 3 and i will try your method where i limit my grabs.