• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Cheese

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
Thank you Xyro. As always, your information is extremely unbiased and valuable.

People often think samus wins a spam war but Xyro's "Option 2" is a much more accurate example of what is going on.

The priorities are weird but even. You just have to know what cancels what and stay out of zair range.



The charge shot really isn't all that dangerous and it was extremely nerfed in this game. I mained Samus in Melee when She and Link were actually decent so i know what I am talking about. The only real reason why it is dangerous is because of its speed. Samus charge shot travels faster than her seeking and power missles which can lead go great shield pressure and long ranged combo's. If you learn the limits of your shield game and how to maneuver around this type of situation it isn't that bad. Still dangerous but not bad.
 

Deva

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,704
Location
Spokane, Wa
on wifi, kalm is better.

in real life.........ROFL.
Lol, it's ok, I can't play online for the life of me.

And yeah, Rohins is pretty ****. Great guy to hang out with though, although, tournament performance is a really important factor, so I think you would hold the title lol.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
776
Location
sweden
@Xyro: you should write PPS instead of PSS. PS stands for postum scriptum where "postum" means "after" and "scriptum" means "the written" so PSS means "after the written the written" while PPS means "after after the written"which makes much more sense.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Thank you Xyro. As always, your information is extremely unbiased and valuable.

People often think samus wins a spam war but Xyro's "Option 2" is a much more accurate example of what is going on.

The priorities are weird but even. You just have to know what cancels what and stay out of zair range.



The charge shot really isn't all that dangerous and it was extremely nerfed in this game. I mained Samus in Melee when She and Link were actually decent so i know what I am talking about. The only real reason why it is dangerous is because of its speed. Samus charge shot travels faster than her seeking and power missles which can lead go great shield pressure and long ranged combo's. If you learn the limits of your shield game and how to maneuver around this type of situation it isn't that bad. Still dangerous but not bad.
im just tryin to help people out.
 

Onomanic

Heaven Piercer
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,263
Location
Westwood, NJ
Thanks for the info Xyro :D Maybe we should go on the Samus board and do what you said. Friendlies and stuff. :D

Edit: This is weird. My character, my wii code and sig changed while I wasn't on. O_o And hobbies. I don't like it. Stop, who ever is doing this.
 

sasook

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
2,338
Location
New York
Well, a lot of skilled Samus users don't really spam projectiles as much as her zair. And the Hylian Shield CANNOT reflect, only stop things. But what kind of a Samus user is gonna wait for you to be standing still when they shoot? They're gonna shoot when you're in the midst of something else, so that you're distracted. This takes the Hylian Sheld out of the question.

On topic: Her zair ***** yours, always. I dunno too much about her, but with a combination of zairs, uairs, and downb's, she really can be unpredictable.

Zamus is a secondary of mine, on the other hand. One thing is that her suit parts are deadly. They have good knockback, she can glide toss with them (rather far), and since they bounce, she can abuse throwing them downwards or dropping them after a short hop (as a Link main, this comes naturally ^_^). Whether thrown or dropped, they still can give a decent amount of damage. A few hits, maybe 3-4 from the parts, and that's 40% already. Mixing that in with bairs, uairs, dsmashes, utilts......you need to be careful.

I don't think you have to worry about her uair that much (your dair will go through it), but her upb on the ground and usmash can possibly go through your dair (I don't remember). Most of the time, usmash will be used when she's hyphen smashing. Her bair is a kill move, watch out for it. Her utilt can connect even if you're behind her, but fortunately if she misses, there's some lag, allowing a free fsmash from Link. Her dsmash has a short range, just don't get caught in it, and if you do, start DI'ing immediately. Her fsmash isn't really much of a threat. Her dtilt is another move to watch out for, it can really set her up for some aerial moves.

Her dash attack is good, and can be repeated numerous times. It can be combo'd into a utilt or a dtilt, both of which are trouble for you. Watch out for that.

Her sideb and downb can really, REALLY be a pain. Both can KO rather easily (fortunately Link is heavy). The sideb is relatively easy to see coming (she'll pull her arm back and then throw it out) so the best bet is to powershield it. If she downb's, just shield. That kick has ferocious knockback, and the knockback remains the same no matter what frame of the attack it is. What I mean is, Link's nair at the first frame and at the later frames differ. Her downb does not. She can control the direction of both the kick and the jump, so it really is versatile.

Zamus can spike with two moves. Her downb, if connected on the first frame, spikes. Watch out for this, Zamus can jump off the stage, use a downb, jump again, and upb to recover. She can also upb as many times as she wants, and can jump after using it if she hasn't used the jump already. Knowing this, her edgeguard game isn't bad. She can sideb, fair, bair, downb spike/kick, all with high chances of you dying. Link's recovery doesn't help much. Her other spike is the upb spike. You probably won't see this as often, but just be wary of it. She has to be underneath you and because it pulls you down, it spikes (but can be spike canceled).

Timing a zair edgeguard on her isn't easy. One thing, Zamus players like to mix up how they recover, whether it's a sideb from afar or waiting til underneath to use an upb, or just jumping via the downb back onto the stage. Also, if a person is edgehogging, she can go underneath and, in a desperate attempt, upb spike you to pull you along with her. If she's hanging on the ledge, be wary. She does NOT have to tilt back to use downb. She can use that move directly off the ledge. Also, since she's floaty, she can tilt back and use a uair/sideb/fair to get back on the stage from the ledge.

Her grabs can be a curse and a blessing to a Link player. For one thing, a missed grab by her has more lag than Link does for his. That's the blessing part. The curse part is that she slides rather far for her running grabs, she can grab people completely off the stage, and at low percents has a "chaingrab." Now, it's not a true chaingrab because it can be gotten out of easily, but if she grabs, expect a dthrow or an fthrow. If it's a dthrow, expect a fair or downb kick or uair or hyphen smash. The chaingrab is the fthrow. When she fthrows, using the knowledge that she slides as well as being able to grab people out of air allows her to grab again and fthrow again. Since Link is heavy, he'll land quicker and therefore, it's easier to spot dodge this than most characters.

So now the question is: How do you fight this?

You need to space well against her. By that, I don't mean using a lot of zairs. She's light, so your melee attacks are gonna send her flying at mid percentages. What I mean by spacing is, don't get caught sitting next to her. Her combos are ****, believe me when I say, she can REALLY rack up damage fast. Throw a boomerang when she's edgeguarding you as you try to recover, it can't really be DI'd as well as the explosions from bombs can, so it's a bit more reliable. Your smashes, all of them, are a threat to her. Use a boomerang on stage to space a lot, use some occasional zairs, and just use bombs ot rack up damage. Using a lot of AT's always helps.

^Hope all this helps, just trying to contribute.

I say this matchup is 55:45 Zamus' favor.
I said all this for ZSS earlier. I guess everyone missed it.
 

sasook

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
2,338
Location
New York
Oh, it's just that someone mentioned earlier "we need more info on ZSS" or something to that effect. I've also heard things like "I'll assume it's very similar to play against ZSS" and such. So I thought people missed it.
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,237
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Wow Xyro, that was a great post.
I think Samus and Link is pretty much even so 50:50
What do you do when Samus edgeguards you? Z-airs and missiles and d-air... Even if I DI up and towards the stage to avoid being killed or gimped by my recovery, something is most likely to hit me <_< If I air dodge through the z-airs, I'll probably be really low and my up+b is really obvious so it's easy to d-air. I guess I could airdodge > tether recovery and throw bombs and stuff while recovering, but what else could you do?

yes, Kalm is a really good Wifi main.
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
Oh, it's just that someone mentioned earlier "we need more info on ZSS" or something to that effect. I've also heard things like "I'll assume it's very similar to play against ZSS" and such. So I thought people missed it.
That was me. I thought we were doing them both at the same time but I suppose i was wrong
 

Deva

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,704
Location
Spokane, Wa
Thanks for the info Xyro :D Maybe we should go on the Samus board and do what you said. Friendlies and stuff. :D

Edit: This is weird. My character, my wii code and sig changed while I wasn't on. O_o And hobbies. I don't like it. Stop, who ever is doing this.
You sir, have been hacked xD. I'd highly suggest getting a good antivirus program, cuz from the sounds of it, it seems like you have keylogger. Try not to type any personal info on your computer, if it is keylogger they can see everything you're typing.
 

Onomanic

Heaven Piercer
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,263
Location
Westwood, NJ
You sir, have been hacked xD. I'd highly suggest getting a good antivirus program, cuz from the sounds of it, it seems like you have keylogger. Try not to type any personal info on your computer, if it is keylogger they can see everything you're typing.
Deva, it was a friend. :/ They were messing around with my stuff. I forgot to log off at one of my friends comps lol. Don't worry. Plus no one hacks macs lol
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Dyrn...I dare you to take Deva.....it would settle the argument once and for all.

I'm warnin ya though. Deva beat DSF. You might be in over your head if you play him.
Online matches don't prove anything. They're only good for practice. That's something all people should know about my opinion regarding Wi-Fi. Even if I did brawl with Deva, that would be nice. I wouldn't be trying to prove that Samus is better than Link. I already agreed that the match-up is even.

You kinda just proved his point about not playing a competent Link.
Not brawling with much Link players is not equivalent to not brawling with competent Link players. I could play against competent Link players, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is common that I play against a lot of Link players.

But then you go and say this. Seems sort of contradictory to me. Who was this Link player, I'm just curious.
The do not recall the name of the fellow I played against. It was on Wi-Fi, and I no longer have him on my Friend List. He wasn't someone from any tournaments, though.

I wish you would have posted this sooner. It would have saved a lot of time and useless posts.
Well, we all can't read each others minds, now can we? That doesn't mean I don't know how to DI.
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
Okay time for some ZSS stuff.

ZSS has a whip and it is quite usefull for a spacing game. Many of her moves have more range than yours and her jab is pretty good too.

Her grab comes out super quick and is used to set up many of her combo's.

She can combo you quite well in the air as well.


However your best spacing tool, zair, is quite good against the suitless samus. Many of her moves have more range than the zair but most of those moves either have a slow start up time allowing zair to hit first or a slow cool down time in which case you punish.

With Little to nothing in terms of projectiles, All you need to do is spam. Her dash attack is good and with a extended grab, she has a pretty good dash grab range. If you keep those in mind you can punish with some of your ranged moves. Personally I like F-Smash. Recently, once or twice a match against ZSS, i find myself rolling behind her to avoid a laggy ranged move like her grab or foward B and attempting a bomb smashing. There are obviously better things I could do but lately I have had the urge to embarrass people by bombsmashing......Dunno why.

This is one of those matches where keeping a bomb in hand isn't that necessary because ZSS can't chain grab you but it won't hurt. If you get caught in her D-smash you will be combod if you improperly DI.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Wow Xyro, that was a great post.
I think Samus and Link is pretty much even so 50:50
What do you do when Samus edgeguards you? Z-airs and missiles and d-air... Even if I DI up and towards the stage to avoid being killed or gimped by my recovery, something is most likely to hit me <_< If I air dodge through the z-airs, I'll probably be really low and my up+b is really obvious so it's easy to d-air. I guess I could airdodge > tether recovery and throw bombs and stuff while recovering, but what else could you do?

yes, Kalm is a really good Wifi main.
the best answer: dont get in that situation.

but the realistic answer is keep thing flying at samus while you are recovering. this will force her to more or risk being hit.
 

Deva

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,704
Location
Spokane, Wa
Online matches don't prove anything. They're only good for practice. That's something all people should know about my opinion regarding Wi-Fi. Even if I did brawl with Deva, that would be nice. I wouldn't be trying to prove that Samus is better than Link. I already agreed that the match-up is even.
I dont think he said online lol. And I'm taking a stab in the dark, but I think he was referring to playing me in regards to experience.

Not brawling with much Link players is not equivalent to not brawling with competent Link players. I could play against competent Link players, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is common that I play against a lot of Link players.
Yet you already stated you dont play opponents that DI. That makes them incompetent considering DI becomes an essential part of competitive play at higher levels.

The do not recall the name of the fellow I played against. It was on Wi-Fi, and I no longer have him on my Friend List. He wasn't someone from any tournaments, though.
Although I agree with you completely, arent you the one that just said online doesnt prove anything? >_>. . . if it was online you cant really be sure he was competent.

Well, we all can't read each others minds, now can we? That doesn't mean I don't know how to DI.
Yes, but I wish you would have mentioned it sooner because it states that you have no experience with the matchup or competitive play in general, instead of posting a losing argument that got you nothing but flames. Basically, the logic of smash is, experience=support/proof of your claims in an argument. Toutnament play=experience. Without that, everything you say will hold absolutely no weight and tends to get flammed. If you had mentioned it earlier, we could have ended the argument sooner.
 

Ray_Kalm

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
4,305
Location
Ontario, Canada
NNID
Ray_Kalm7
3DS FC
3626-0429-4546
I don't really know much about Zss, I'm still trying to find some decent ones to fight. Any how, this match up should be a bit in Zero Suit Samus's favour, by a few points.

Z-air would be good here, along with some Jab cancels. All Zss's aerials are kill moves, which is really bad for Link because of his heavy weight and the set DI that all Link players must have/do when in the air. Though Zss has weak or low defense thus making it easier to KO her. Use your projectiles to build up easy damage, and space yourself within the Z-air range.

60:40.
 

Adapt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,489
Location
NS, Canada
From the ZSS side, Link is looked at as a 6-4 advantage for her.

Link's recovery is a weak spot and ZSS will always try and get you off the stage where you can be edgehogged and gimped. Her offstage game is rather good and her recovery is by far the best out of the tether characters due to how many options she has.

A couple things I noticed that people have said that should be corrected:

- ZSS has 3 spikes, not 2: up-B, dair, and down-B kick. Against your up-B I am pretty sure a dair will trade hits, aka spike you, and she will get knocked out of it (saving her). But I am not 100% sure.
- Her moves have very little ending lag so she is hard to punish, but several do have starting lag.
- you cannot DI her dsmash stun. and if you get caught off stage by the stun you WILL get spiked. Either stage spiked with a bair or flipjump spiked. If you get caught on the stage you will take at least 30% damage and maybe more. At high percentages, dsmash will lead into another dsmash and then a bair will kill you. this is inescapable
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
i have a question......why is everyone always examing the air and not the ground, this is link not kirby
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,769
Location
Utah
i have a question......why is everyone always examing the air and not the ground, this is link not kirby
Firstly, Link's air game is as important as his ground game is, because both suck. At least you have two ways to suck instead of one if you jump on people. Plus, what do you think zair and dair are for?

I faced ZSS in my first tournament ever a couple weeks ago @_@, so I know a tiny bit about ZSS. (Quarter finals, yay!)
The beginning of the match will force you to be extremely defensive, because ZSS has such good projectiles to use at the beginning of the game (or whenever she becomes ZSS in the match). Her projectiles outprioritize yours, as well as inflicting far more damage.
Maybe the Zamus that I faced wasn't terribly good, but they used sideB a lot, which is Zamus way of making up for her Fsmash. The only weakness with this attack is the startup lag, so if you are on the ground shield it. However the move was far more effective against me as I was falling towards the ground, because naturally it becomes extremely difficult to air dodge and then ground dodge while the attack is still occurring.
Two bits from me.
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
Zair i have always found useless, Dair is useful but its not like im going to run and immediatly jump on top of them. Links a ground character kirby, meta knight and pit are air characters.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Whoops, just realized in my post I had the wrong match-up ratio.
As far as ZSS goes, I can only imagine this being very similar, since neither Samus or ZSS have great kill moves.
Have you seen ZSS' Bair? It's fast and hits like a goddam truck. Not to mention she'll juggle you until she's ready to end you.
i have a question......why is everyone always examing the air and not the ground, this is link not kirby
Zair i have always found useless, Dair is useful but its not like im going to run and immediatly jump on top of them. Links a ground character kirby, meta knight and pit are air characters.
Once you find a way to completely avoid being in the air ever... then you can ignore his aerials. Until then, it's good to know his air game.
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,237
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Zair i have always found useless
i think it's time for you to stop posting for a while and just lurk until you find some common sense.

For ZSS, her sh goes too high to hit with most of her aerials against grounded opponents. It's really good to attack opponents that are trapped on platforms though. So up close, ZSS will probably grab, jab, tilt, or d-smash or something. Her jab is really fast and I believe you can jab cancel it into d-tilts and stuff.
Her d-smash has just a bit of start up lag, but almost no ending lag so it's easy for her to follow up with up+b > d-smash chains, grabs, or deadly side-bs. Side+b is good at mid range, so is her quick dash attack, and her stun gun.
I think link's z-air goes through her stun gun, but her dash attack and side+b will hit you out of your z-air if you don't space it well.
I think keeping zamus in the air is a good idea because shes really quick on the ground.
I don't know zamus enough to know how hard or easy it is to juggle her, but from what i can see, she can stall with down+b jump, float away and side+b or neutral+B, d-air is punishable, her aerials can be outspaced, as in you can u-tilt or usmash or grab her as she lands.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
So up close, ZSS will probably grab, jab, tilt, or d-smash or something. Her jab is really fast and I believe you can jab cancel it into d-tilts and stuff.
Her Jab is interruptable and her grab is just as bad as Link's.
Her d-smash has just a bit of start up lag, but almost no ending lag so it's easy for her to follow up with up+b > d-smash chains
If you can tech, you can get out of it.

Most of the times at low percentages they tend to do Double Dsmash-->Something. Generally a Uair to continue combo-ing.

I think keeping zamus in the air is a good idea because shes really quick on the ground.
Zamus in the air is easier to KO, but remember that her Fair and Bair are consistent KO moves.

I don't know zamus enough to know how hard or easy it is to juggle her, but from what i can see, she can stall with down+b jump, float away and side+b or neutral+B, d-air is punishable, her aerials can be outspaced, as in you can u-tilt or usmash or grab her as she lands.
Jab Canceled Utilts and Usmashes are good sometimes as well. Since some ZSS players use the Down+B to get out of combos, if they end up going above you the move connects. Most ZSS don't use dair at all...unless they're water spiking on Delfino.
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
are you kidding me? i know the Y button is tempting but it shouldnt be too hard for the rest of you to just not push it. Your a heavy character who MOST of his attacks do better on the ground, the only time you really NEED air combat for Link is when your knocked in the air
 

Dieci

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
22
are you kidding me? i know the Y button is tempting but it shouldnt be too hard for the rest of you to just not push it. Your a heavy character who MOST of his attacks do better on the ground, the only time you really NEED air combat for Link is when your knocked in the air
Then stay on the ground and STFU. Nobody cares.
 

sasook

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
2,338
Location
New York
Zair i have always found useless, Dair is useful but its not like im going to run and immediatly jump on top of them. Links a ground character kirby, meta knight and pit are air characters.
Zair....useless? Are you serious? I'm sorry, but I honestly refuse to believe a word of what you say anymore. That statement right there pretty much proves that (and I don't mean to be unkind), when it comes to Link, you're a scrub.

Well, a lot of skilled Samus users don't really spam projectiles as much as her zair. And the Hylian Shield CANNOT reflect, only stop things. But what kind of a Samus user is gonna wait for you to be standing still when they shoot? They're gonna shoot when you're in the midst of something else, so that you're distracted. This takes the Hylian Sheld out of the question.

On topic: Her zair ***** yours, always. I dunno too much about her, but with a combination of zairs, uairs, and downb's, she really can be unpredictable.

Zamus is a secondary of mine, on the other hand. One thing is that her suit parts are deadly. They have good knockback, she can glide toss with them (rather far), and since they bounce, she can abuse throwing them downwards or dropping them after a short hop (as a Link main, this comes naturally ^_^). Whether thrown or dropped, they still can give a decent amount of damage. A few hits, maybe 3-4 from the parts, and that's 40% already. Mixing that in with bairs, uairs, dsmashes, utilts......you need to be careful.

I don't think you have to worry about her uair that much (your dair will go through it), but her upb on the ground and usmash can possibly go through your dair (I don't remember). Most of the time, usmash will be used when she's hyphen smashing. Her bair is a kill move, watch out for it. Her utilt can connect even if you're behind her, but fortunately if she misses, there's some lag, allowing a free fsmash from Link. Her dsmash has a short range, just don't get caught in it, and if you do, start DI'ing immediately. Her fsmash isn't really much of a threat. Her dtilt is another move to watch out for, it can really set her up for some aerial moves.

Her dash attack is good, and can be repeated numerous times. It can be combo'd into a utilt or a dtilt, both of which are trouble for you. Watch out for that.

Her sideb and downb can really, REALLY be a pain. Both can KO rather easily (fortunately Link is heavy). The sideb is relatively easy to see coming (she'll pull her arm back and then throw it out) so the best bet is to powershield it. If she downb's, just shield. That kick has ferocious knockback, and the knockback remains the same no matter what frame of the attack it is. What I mean is, Link's nair at the first frame and at the later frames differ. Her downb does not. She can control the direction of both the kick and the jump, so it really is versatile.

Zamus can spike with two moves. Her downb, if connected on the first frame, spikes. Watch out for this, Zamus can jump off the stage, use a downb, jump again, and upb to recover. She can also upb as many times as she wants, and can jump after using it if she hasn't used the jump already. Knowing this, her edgeguard game isn't bad. She can sideb, fair, bair, downb spike/kick, all with high chances of you dying. Link's recovery doesn't help much. Her other spike is the upb spike. You probably won't see this as often, but just be wary of it. She has to be underneath you and because it pulls you down, it spikes (but can be spike canceled).

Timing a zair edgeguard on her isn't easy. One thing, Zamus players like to mix up how they recover, whether it's a sideb from afar or waiting til underneath to use an upb, or just jumping via the downb back onto the stage. Also, if a person is edgehogging, she can go underneath and, in a desperate attempt, upb spike you to pull you along with her. If she's hanging on the ledge, be wary. She does NOT have to tilt back to use downb. She can use that move directly off the ledge. Also, since she's floaty, she can tilt back and use a uair/sideb/fair to get back on the stage from the ledge.

Her grabs can be a curse and a blessing to a Link player. For one thing, a missed grab by her has more lag than Link does for his. That's the blessing part. The curse part is that she slides rather far for her running grabs, she can grab people completely off the stage, and at low percents has a "chaingrab." Now, it's not a true chaingrab because it can be gotten out of easily, but if she grabs, expect a dthrow or an fthrow. If it's a dthrow, expect a fair or downb kick or uair or hyphen smash. The chaingrab is the fthrow. When she fthrows, using the knowledge that she slides as well as being able to grab people out of air allows her to grab again and fthrow again. Since Link is heavy, he'll land quicker and therefore, it's easier to spot dodge this than most characters.

So now the question is: How do you fight this?

You need to space well against her. By that, I don't mean using a lot of zairs. She's light, so your melee attacks are gonna send her flying at mid percentages. What I mean by spacing is, don't get caught sitting next to her. Her combos are ****, believe me when I say, she can REALLY rack up damage fast. Throw a boomerang when she's edgeguarding you as you try to recover, it can't really be DI'd as well as the explosions from bombs can, so it's a bit more reliable. Your smashes, all of them, are a threat to her. Use a boomerang on stage to space a lot, use some occasional zairs, and just use bombs ot rack up damage. Using a lot of AT's always helps.

^Hope all this helps, just trying to contribute.

I say this matchup is 55:45 Zamus' favor.
ZSS info here. Also, ZSS never uses fsmash, so don't worry about it. Also, the dair doesn't go through her usmash and upb.
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
Zair can lead to comboing i know that already but Link isnt really the kind of character your made to combo with. Link is more of a direct character who isnt made to rack up close up damage, your thinking of MK. Link is made to to stun oppenets with projectiles before finishing them off instead of running up at close combat.

oh and before you start flipping out: yes i know you need to use close combat at some point but thats when your opponet is at the point of dying or at least flying far and Zair doesnt help with that, though Dair will but once again as a Link your really not supposed to be going into the air when its unnessesary
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
of course your not because you dont know what your talking about. of course the concept of using strong attacks and comboing applies to all characters but some characters need to use a certain type more than others

Ex:MK isnt good with KO hits therfore his strength is comboing......and gimping

since you apparently cant figure out whos for comboing and whos for finishing ill give you a tip, characters like meta knight dont have strong attacks but they are very fast......ive explained his strength already so theres no need to repeat it, Link is slow but has strong attacks gee i wonder what he should be doing.

Honestly all you do is jump in the air and attack.....wth have you lost your mind, yes there a times for jumping but not the way you do it. if you were good with the gun and you had to fight somone with the choice of gun or sword and you chose the sword: your doing the same thing you do with Link, link was not made to fly and i dont need to go into detail on that its obvious his strength is on the ground. So why are you trying to be peter pan and fly, yes yes i know they have a resemblance but that doesnt mean they are the same person so dont get mixed up on that.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188459

check that thread out and read the first post on it all the way through
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
You have no idea what you are talking about.

At low percents Link can **** combo really well.

good link players can put 40-50% on thier opponent with a good combo.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,769
Location
Utah
Bouse, Darkest Link, Sasook, your arguments are turning into arguments of Link rather than ZSS, and not even in relation to ZSS (like "Using the bow against her is bad because..."). If you guys want to continue this argument, you should probably jump to the Stickied Weekly Character Discussion: Link because that's what that topic is pretty much about anyway.

Sorry if I'm ursurping authority or something here. I don't want Gimpy's Fsmash anytime soon.

And I really don't have any more to say about ZSS, because I know I'm a scrub anyway and nobody cares *cries*
Just gotta agree that ZSS Fsmash is really replaced by her sideB. And her bair really does kick butt.
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
Bouse, Darkest Link, Sasook, your arguments are turning into arguments of Link rather than ZSS, and not even in relation to ZSS (like "Using the bow against her is bad because..."). If you guys want to continue this argument, you should probably jump to the Stickied Weekly Character Discussion: Link because that's what that topic is pretty much about anyway.

Sorry if I'm ursurping authority or something here. I don't want Gimpy's Fsmash anytime soon.

And I really don't have any more to say about ZSS, because I know I'm a scrub anyway and nobody cares *cries*
Just gotta agree that ZSS Fsmash is really replaced by her sideB. And her bair really does kick butt.
no, no its cool i can understand why you wouldnt want to hear it, ill try to end it. Sorry but the chances of moving it are low, ive never been in a argument where the people were curtious enough to move. I shall read sasooks last post cause i feel like being a nice guy, respond to it and then im done
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Bouse, Darkest Link, Sasook, your arguments are turning into arguments of Link rather than ZSS, and not even in relation to ZSS (like "Using the bow against her is bad because..."). If you guys want to continue this argument, you should probably jump to the Stickied Weekly Character Discussion: Link because that's what that topic is pretty much about anyway.
I've already stated the ZSS argument, and will be doing the write-up soon.

Sorry if I'm ursurping authority or something here. I don't want Gimpy's Fsmash anytime soon.
He can Fsmash all he wants.

And I really don't have any more to say about ZSS, because I know I'm a scrub anyway and nobody cares *cries*
Just gotta agree that ZSS Fsmash is really replaced by her sideB. And her bair really does kick butt.
Thanks for repeating something already posted.

Darkest-Link, your opinion has been noted. It won't be taken in consideration for most or any of the match-ups.

Good day.

**** off.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
This Thread Is Ended Due To Image Per Post Limits.
A New Thread Has Been Created.
It Is Linked In The Original Post.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
I dont think he said online lol. And I'm taking a stab in the dark, but I think he was referring to playing me in regards to experience.
Well, I don't think I am going to be heading to where you live any time soon.

Yet you already stated you dont play opponents that DI. That makes them incompetent considering DI becomes an essential part of competitive play at higher levels.
Did I say I don't play against opponents who don't DI? It's not like I am in control of what my opponent is doing, as if I had psychic powers to DI for him. I play against a friend sometimes who plays as Captain Falcon, King DeDeDe, and Bowser, and from what I've seen, he is capable of DI'ing, or else he should've been KO'd when I hit him with my Charge Shot. Deva, you don't know anything about who I've played or how many people I've played against, or anything like that. You rely on what I tell you about my gaming experience, so don't act like you know what you're talking about.

Although I agree with you completely, arent you the one that just said online doesnt prove anything? >_>. . . if it was online you cant really be sure he was competent.
It doesn't prove anything. That doesn't mean that I can't say that the person I played against played very well.

Yes, but I wish you would have mentioned it sooner because it states that you have no experience with the matchup or competitive play in general, instead of posting a losing argument that got you nothing but flames. Basically, the logic of smash is, experience=support/proof of your claims in an argument. Toutnament play=experience. Without that, everything you say will hold absolutely no weight and tends to get flammed. If you had mentioned it earlier, we could have ended the argument sooner.
Please don't act like I've never played Super Smash Bros. Brawl so that what I say holds no merit. All I did was come in here and replied to the fellow who said that Link would survive up to 200% before being KO'd. As if Samus relied only on her Charge Shot to KO her opponents. It's ironic that the sameself person said that Samus would be good at spacing herself, and yet, somehow, Link would be able to KO Samus at a lesser amount of damage percent. Funnily, Samus is the seventh heaviest character in Brawl. It's going to be a while before KO'ing her, unless of course, you haven't fought any competent Samus players.
 
Top Bottom