Cheese

[Darkest-Link]

nah i know somone better than Deva.......but hes not a Link sooooo.....


anyway Deva how about this: show me a video of your online matches and i can see what your talking about


now id like to add something to the samus thread, true samuses missle is fast but its not hard to use the hylian sheild on it, and the other missles, tho they get past his shield are MUCH slower

 

[sasook]

now id like to add something to the samus thread, true samuses missle is fast but its not hard to use the hylian sheild on it, and the other missles, tho they get past his shield are MUCH slower

Well for the Hylian Shield.....Link sways when standing still. So that's risky. The safe option is to crouch, where it's always in front of him. HOWEVER, Link's head is exposed....and guess where the super missiles hit? Yep, headshot every time.

But honestly, you need to realize NEITHER player will ever be standing in one place for this to happen. It's so unlikely, it's almost not even worth mentioning.

 

[Darkest-Link]

well ill ussually move foward occasionally to keep the shield where i want it when im playing "throw your projectiles" with characters like samus



ps that comment above wasnt made to insult Deva im not the first or last to say this

"Your very good but there are people better.......few (lol)

 

[sasook]

Okay, that's great if that's what you do. Keep on doin' that or whatever, it doesn't matter to me.

What I'm saying is, no good player will ever, ever, EVER be standing still in a fight. If a Link is standing still to put up his Hylian Shield, there's a problem. There are better options, like spot dodging or throwing your own projectiles. A Samus can easily run towards you right after she shoots the missile. So let's see what happens now......

You block the missile with the unbreakable shield across Link's arm. Hurray. Now you get to be pummeled since Samus is right next to you and you're a sitting duck. Congrats, that's your reward for standing still.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Hmm... I play King Chaos' Samus a good amount. I'd be willing to say 55:45 Samus. It's an incredibly fun match though. Her Zair may best yours, but it doesn't render yours useless, and is still a viable spacing method as long as the Samus isn't Zairing at the same time. The advantage Link has over Samus for Zair is that he isn't floaty, so he can get to the ground and pop out another Zair way before Samus can. Hand to hand and distance games for these chars may be extremely different, but incredibly even.

Can't say anything about Zamus though; haven't played many.

 

[Darkest-Link]

well thats true, the shield is optional tho, really the missle isnt THAT fast, honestly Links arrows are faster. Im just saying its not hard to block them with the bubble shield. Yes samus COULD run foward but she wont be as fast as her missle and i think im right in saying not many samus's are going to just run forward and fight Link head on i mean really in a physical contest Link wins. their speed is close and samus doesnt really have many great physical attacks and Link has better range, it doesnt automaticly mean links going to win that but most samus's will probably stand back and throw projectiles

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Samus has great Hand to Hand ability to go at it with Link. Ever seen her Ftilt? It's a beast.

 

[sasook]

well thats true, the shield is optional tho, really the missle isnt THAT fast, honestly Links arrows are faster.

That's admitting that my statement about throwing your own projectiles is better your statement about standing still.

Im just saying its not hard to block them with the bubble shield.

Prior to just now, you didn't really mention the bubble shield.

Yes samus COULD run foward but she wont be as fast as her missle and i think im right in saying not many samus's are going to just run forward and fight Link head on i mean really in a physical contest Link wins.

She's not supposed to be faster, the whole IDEA of it is to have Link distracted with the missile and her following up right behind him. And Link can't win in a close quarter combat if he's being attacked already.

samus doesnt really have many great physical attacks and Link has better range, it doesnt automaticly mean links going to win that but most samus's will probably stand back and throw projectiles

I don't know the priorities of Samus' physical attacks, but the good Samus players DO NOT just spam projectiles. Even I know that much. If you haven't already, go look up Tudor and Xyro.

 

[Bouse]

Hey Darkest-Link take it to PM's. This isn't a thread for your beef with Deva.

 

[DelxDoom]

changed to 60/40 Samus.
Deva: even without actually hitting you off the screen, Samus's edgeguarding kills you before 200. =/
Fsmash should kill Link before 140ish.
They're even at everywhere except Link's killing is better than Samus, but Samus's recovery is really good, and Samus's kills are almost all edgeguarding, which defeats Link's recovery woes.

 

[Darkest-Link]

ahh true but personally when i get the chance i prefer to use the hylian shield because my bubble will no last forever.......and i like to show off but really when you see that your fighting samus what do you expect?

A) A fight were samus is using projectiles to her advantage

B)Samus charging toward you like a angry rhino ready for head to head combat.

Samus's Fsmash is ok but it doesnt have great range.

 

[sasook]

ahh true but personally when i get the chance i prefer to use the hylian shield because my bubble will no last forever.......and i like to show off but really when you see that your fighting samus what do you expect?

A) A fight were samus is using projectiles to her advantage

B)Samus charging toward you like a angry rhino ready for head to head combat.

Samus's Fsmash is ok but it doesnt have great range.

You like to show off, that's great, keep doing that. Meanwhile, we're discussing match-ups, not flashy stuff.

About those two choices.......did you even bother to look up Tudor and Xyro? Neither spams missiles, and neither charges in. I'm beginning to doubt you even possess a lot of knowledge when it comes to Samus' game.

I'll outright admit right now, I don't have a lot of experience when it comes to Samus. But I DO know that good Samus players don't spam missiles, so don't ever expect that at higher levels of play.

 

[Swordplay]

Okay...

I personally need to do more reasearch.....

The samus matchup when your projectiles clash with her's....The priority is way messed up.

adding both zairs into the equation makes it even harder.....I might have to make a priority chart.


Samus must be fought upclose. It is a strange matchup as you are usually a spacing character. But Samus has superior spacing so you must rely of the fact that you have disjoined attacks and she does not. If you can take advantage of this you will have the advantage. Any other spacing is an advantage to samus.



Here is some priorty data.


Charged Shot

Arrow < Charge Shot All the way Charged

Arrow = Charged Shot Uncharged

It is hard to measure because arrow has a longer charge time but after doing some tests, in order to have arrow at an equal priority to that of the charge shot. It must be charged slightly more proportionatly.

What can be said about this is that Samus's charged shot has a higher rate of return in her priorty the more she charges it when compared to Link.

Bomb > Charged Shot Uncharged

Bomb = Charged Shot Both Slightly Charged and Fully Charged.

Boomerange = Charged Shot Unchargeed

Boomerange < Charged Shot Charged and slightly charged.

Links Zair > Charged Shot Uncharged

Links Zair < Charged Shot Charged and slightly charged

Power Missie

Links Arrow Charged = power missle

Links arrow Uncharged = power missle

Links zair > Power Missle

Boomerang = Power missle

Links Bomb = Power missle

Seeker Missie

Arrow Charged = Seeker Missle

Arrow Uncharged = Seeker Missle

Links Zair > Seeker Missle

Boomerang = Seeker Missle

Links Bomb > Seeker missle

Samus's Zair

Link Arrow Charged < Samus Zair

Links arrow uncharged < Samus Zair

Links Bombs v.s Samus Zair---does not cancel

Samus's zair doesn't not stop Links bombs but Bombs do not stop zair if in range. The bombs merely travel through the zair as if it were untoutch and the zair continues through the bombs as if untoutched.

Boomerang < Samus Zair

Links Zair < Samus Zair

In terms of priority they are the same but in speed and length samus owns you.


This leaves you to fight with those disjointed attacks of yours. You are better in melee than her because of it as and you should own as long as you stay in disjointed range.

Moves to watch out for.

D-tilt ----very very strong
F-tilt ----good priority
U-tilt Fast and good reach for a u tilt

F-smash Samus can F smash in 3 directions up F smash down F smash and Normal F smash

All her air moves.

Other moves arn't all that great.

 

[4Serial]

Wow Dark-Link, you don't seem to have very much knowledge about anything at all.

Jab cancels is your only safe close range option. U-tilt is good for sending her up and chase her and don't give her room. If you think a d-air is coming, retreat a bit and you can probably pivot grab as she lands. When I faced Xyro, he did seeking missile > grab a lot. It was wifi though and I pretty much had to mash side step to get out of that, it would work half the time, but yeah, **** wifi. ehh if samus is charging a laser on wifi, there's not much you can do because you can run and shield because your reflex is screwed over, sidestepping is harder to time, running in and z-airing is dumb, running to jump to airdodge is dumb, so just take out a bomb or boomerang.. i can't give much info because i don't play good samus' offline. Xyro knows how to play wifi pretty good. uhh just send her upwards and then she'll either try to come down with n-air or d-air and u-smash beats those. Don't let her stay grounded where she has control. Keep her above you and punish obvious mistakes like incoming d-airs, airdodges, etc. don't fall for bomb stalls. up close, jab cancels or grabs are the way to go. z-air in, if you see her about to z-air just shield and sidestep or roll back and try again. keep a bomb with you. mix up your recovery a lot.

 

[Agent Snop]

bombsmashing comes in handy in this match and dac too.Oh n-air cancel samus missiles.

 

[Deva]

What? I don't know why you think that Samus can't KO anyone until they're at 200%. That's a huge exaggeration right there. It's also unrealistic to think that while Samus gets you at 200%, she'll be at 100%. In case you weren't aware, it is possible to rack up someone's percent damage very high while keeping yours low. I guess you haven't brawled with any good Samus players.

It's not really an exaggeration. With Good DI, Link can survive Samus's kill moves to roughly 200%. Yeah she can edge guard you, but competent Links can get around it. Basicallly the point is, she can space you better, and rack damage faster, you can kill her at lower percents, overall, an even matchup, cuz her kill moves are really that bad. And I play Rohins lol. Pretty sure he's a more than decent Samus player.

@Darkest-Link, I'd highly suggest checking the regional zones for tournaments in your area. You live in Cali, right? There's bound to be tons near by, within a 2 hour driving distance at least. And look up smash communities in your area. It's a great way to meet other players, and you can carpool with them to tournaments, so gas is really inexpensive. That's how I do it, and it's not cuz I like this game lol. Brawl is a sorry excuse for a fighting game. I do it cuz it's Link and I sometimes win money. I dont practice this game at all. I only play it at tournaments. I rarely if ever play online. It's not a very in depth game. You dont need much practice. And it's much more important for you to be playing good players irl instead of online. There are a lot of good players that play online, but it's just online. They're not taking it seriously. Unless there's money on the line, good players never try, which is why you have to go to tournaments if you wanna see how you stack up. At least check regional zones for your area. You might be surprised. It's a great way to start.

And I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was the best lol. I'm far from it. I mean I use Link in tournaments for god's sake, how can you even expect me to win. I just try my best and it usually pays off. But if you want some matches here's some for you to chew on =P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaik3Efwdxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMen9KvflM

I just hope you know who DSF is, or else it'd be pointless for you to watch xD.


As far as the Link samus matchup, spam a lot, your projectiles generally beat hers, and when she starts to apprach, count on zair, so short hop and air dodge towards her. Samus is one of the few matchups you can get close to the opponent and not worry about being *****. She doesnt have any ridiculously fast moves to punish you with, so as long as you stay out of her up-b range, you can space her close up and rack up some damage. Then killing her is'nt too much of a problem. Just make sure to DI her kill moves and you'll live to 170+% easily, and be careful off the edge not to get gimped. Make sure to do the usual pull bombs and throw rangs while recovering. It's not as bad as being edge guarded by MK lol.

 

[Aran]

It's not really an exaggeration. With Good DI, Link can survive Samus's kill moves to roughly 200%. Yeah she can edge guard you, but competent Links can get around it. Basicallly the point is, she can space you better, and rack damage faster, you can kill her at lower percents, overall, an even matchup, cuz her kill moves are really that bad. And I play Rohins lol. Pretty sure he's a more than decent Samus player.

As far as the Link samus matchup, spam a lot, your projectiles generally beat hers, and when she starts to apprach, count on zair, so short hop and air dodge towards her. Samus is one of the few matchups you can get close to the opponent and not worry about being *****. She doesnt have any ridiculously fast moves to punish you with, so as long as you stay out of her up-b range, you can space her close up and rack up some damage. Then killing her is'nt too much of a problem. Just make sure to DI her kill moves and you'll live to 170+% easily, and be careful off the edge not to get gimped. Make sure to do the usual pull bombs and throw rangs while recovering. It's not as bad as being edge guarded by MK lol.

I'd disagree with the statement that Samus players can't fight in close combat. Samus has three forms of punishment which can be used in close combat. In extreme close combat, she has the screw attack. However, most Link v Samus CC fights won't be in this range. For slightly further combat, Samus has the jab move, which has ridiculous amounts of priority and comes out fast or the dtilt, which does the same thing, but with way more power. And for long range, her ftilt I'm fairly sure can outspace the sword. Still though, I wouldn't say the fight in CC is one sided in Samus' favor, but I think that she has a fairly even shot.

In the air, Samus has the longer z-air, and so as long as the Samus has good spacing ability, z-air to z-air battles are probably always going to go to Samus. Samus should be winning horizontal aerial fights, but losing fights where she is either above or below him. That u-air and d-air that link has is brutal. I'm fairly sure it goes through the screw attack on the initial hit (but not if she blocks then uses it).

Samus' real problem here may be with the projectiles. I think that a good Link can control larger portions of the field at long range. And yes, she can fight back with her own, but Link's come out far quicker and travel faster. And I just found out earlier last night that a bomb cancels out a charge shot (at least against TLink. He threw a bomb and I shot a charge shot and he only took the bomb damage and knockback).

Also, Link would find it hard to survive against a Samus up until 200%. While technically, Link won't go off the screen until around then in many cases, the fact is, Link's recovery is so poor that it allows for easy spiking, or easy edgehogging (with the insta-tether invulnerability frames), so Links WILL find it difficult to come back if they get knocked back far enough that their only recovery option is grabbing the edge. You can say to just avoid it, but it is far harder to avoid a spike and get back on stage with Link's recovery than it is to spike and/or go for the edgehog.

Overall, I wouldn't say it's an unfair fight really one way or the other. I'd put it at about 60-40 in Samus' favor.

 

[Swordplay]

Actually I will disagree with that. In CC is is a slight advantage link. Link can space better with disjointed attacks.

In a spacing game, Samus as the advantage due to a better zair.

In a projectile game, Samus might have due to lag start up time on projectiles. And the ability to better follow up projectiles with an approach of some type. See my projectile priority matchup above. There are things Link can do to speed up projectiles like Double Jump Tripple arrows and Full hop double arrows. Arrow cancels and more arrow cancels. These things might tip the scale to advantage Link but it is still highly contested.

In the air It is once again Samus's favor. However, Samus is a floaty character and this is Links biggest advantage. Link has DAC and other Anti-air weapons in his arsenal. If samus ever wants to touch ground again, you better know some mind games.

Side note:

Raise your have if you have ever let a fully charged shot bounce off the hylian shield. Man that is major lolz and if that happens to a samus player you should feel bad.

 

[Deva]

I'd disagree with the statement that Samus players can't fight in close combat. Samus has three forms of punishment which can be used in close combat. In extreme close combat, she has the screw attack. However, most Link v Samus CC fights won't be in this range. For slightly further combat, Samus has the jab move, which has ridiculous amounts of priority and comes out fast or the dtilt, which does the same thing, but with way more power. And for long range, her ftilt I'm fairly sure can outspace the sword. Still though, I wouldn't say the fight in CC is one sided in Samus' favor, but I think that she has a fairly even shot.

In the air, Samus has the longer z-air, and so as long as the Samus has good spacing ability, z-air to z-air battles are probably always going to go to Samus. Samus should be winning horizontal aerial fights, but losing fights where she is either above or below him. That u-air and d-air that link has is brutal. I'm fairly sure it goes through the screw attack on the initial hit (but not if she blocks then uses it).

Samus' real problem here may be with the projectiles. I think that a good Link can control larger portions of the field at long range. And yes, she can fight back with her own, but Link's come out far quicker and travel faster. And I just found out earlier last night that a bomb cancels out a charge shot (at least against TLink. He threw a bomb and I shot a charge shot and he only took the bomb damage and knockback).

Also, Link would find it hard to survive against a Samus up until 200%. While technically, Link won't go off the screen until around then in many cases, the fact is, Link's recovery is so poor that it allows for easy spiking, or easy edgehogging (with the insta-tether invulnerability frames), so Links WILL find it difficult to come back if they get knocked back far enough that their only recovery option is grabbing the edge. You can say to just avoid it, but it is far harder to avoid a spike and get back on stage with Link's recovery than it is to spike and/or go for the edgehog.

Overall, I wouldn't say it's an unfair fight really one way or the other. I'd put it at about 60-40 in Samus' favor.

I was referring more to a specific spacing that involves cc combat. Link needs to be close enough to space against samus so his sword hits and he's out of her jab/up-b range. And as far as recovery, I'm referrring to a competent Link that has a general sense of DI. If you're DIing Samus's kill moves, not only will you not die till 170+%, you wont be in a situation where you will be edge guarded. Her only semi horizontal kill move is f-smash, and if DI'd, you still go really high up, so it's never a problem being edge guarded. If by some chance you do get hit at too much of a horizontal angle and need to reach the edge for recovery, you can throw a rang while recovering to prevent samus from taking the edge or mess up the zair edge guard, not to mention Link's up-b has multiple hits so zair edgeguarding with samus would be more difficult to time against Link. And if she decides to edge guard you by knocking you further out, you'll always make it back if you pulled a bomb.

I mean, honestly, this is coming from me lol. I'm the one that's always like, Link has a disadvantage against/gets ***** by everyone. Samus is one of the few matchups I'd say is actually 50/50 o_0.

 

[Crystanium]

It's not really an exaggeration. With Good DI, Link can survive Samus's kill moves to roughly 200%.

Video, please?

Yeah she can edge guard you, but competent Links can get around it.

Please, do explain how "compentent" Link players can get around it. I assume you've never seen any Samus mainer grab onto the edge and fire a nice fully Charged Charge Shot from the edge, only to grab onto the edge after that shot. (And grabbing onto the edge is automatic. There isn't anything necessary to grab onto the edge again, since the force of the Charge Shot pushes Samus backwards.)

Basicallly the point is, she can space you better, and rack damage faster, you can kill her at lower percents, overall, an even matchup, cuz her kill moves are really that bad.

I'll agree with you that it is an even match-up.

And I play Rohins lol. Pretty sure he's a more than decent Samus player.

Maybe.

 

[sasook]

Raise your have if you have ever let a fully charged shot bounce off the hylian shield. Man that is major lolz and if that happens to a samus player you should feel bad.

I've done this when my friend and I were playing around. He was like O_o. It was pretty funny.

Link's recovery is so poor that it allows for easy spiking, or easy edgehogging (with the insta-tether invulnerability frames), so Links WILL find it difficult to come back if they get knocked back far enough that their only recovery option is grabbing the edge.

Believe me when I say, we Link mainers totally know about the zair edgeguard lol.

 

[Deva]

Video, please?

I have a better idea, play an opponent that knows how to DI. You'll be surprised how little horizontal of an angle Samus's kill moves have, and that a character even with Link's crappy recovery can gain massive amounts of verticle distance off of it, to the point where he will almost never be in a situation where being edge guarded by Samus is a problem. Of course Samus will have an opportunity to edge guard Link, but it wont be till he's at roughly 170% where even with DI, he's so far out that he would still need to get to the edge to recover. If you go for a move like d-tilt though, unlike everything else about Link that sucks, he's actually got a pretty **** momentum cancel. Samus still wont be killing Link before 150% even with an upward kill move. A video would be nice, but just based on what you've said I dont think you've played anyone with a proper sense of DI.

Please, do explain how "compentent" Link players can get around it. I assume you've never seen any Samus mainer grab onto the edge and fire a nice fully Charged Charge Shot from the edge, only to grab onto the edge after that shot. (And grabbing onto the edge is automatic. There isn't anything necessary to grab onto the edge again, since the force of the Charge Shot pushes Samus backwards.)

Actually, I've rarely seen that one. Wanna know why? I'm rarely in a situation where an edge guard like that would work :/. The more you say, the less I believe you play opponents that DI properly. Even then, I think it's moreso that you've never played a Decent Link. Rohins tried that on me once. I was at roughly 160%, and after the DI, I double jumped and pulled a bomb. One thing Link can do while recovering is throw a rang back at the stage to prevent an edge hog. I was a little too far out though, and my timing with the rang was off. Still, I had the bomb in hand. As soon as he turned and shot the charge shot, I was a little off guard for it. My first instinct was to throw the bomb. Funny thing. They canceled, and the bomb hit me, sending me a perfect distance up to recover =P.

I'll agree with you that it is an even match-up.

yeah, as strange as it is for me to say, Link actually has a matchup I dont think he's at a distadvantage in.

Maybe.

Pretty sure anyone on the Samus boards will tell you he's got a pretty **** Samus. . .who are you again?

 

[Crystanium]

I have a better idea, play an opponent that knows how to DI.

I shouldn't be having to do someone's homework for them, especially since it was they who made the claim. Anyway, I set Link at 140%, used a fully charged Charge Shot on him. This was in the center stage of Final Destination. I DI'd diagonally up so that Link would fly vertically. He was KO'd. I tried again, setting Link at 136% damage and DI'd the same way. He flew vertically and was KO'd. This was also on center stage. Please don't ask me to play against an opponent who knows how to DI, especially since this is impossible for me to do. I know of no one around here in the neighborhood who plays Super Smash Bros. Brawl, let alone knows what DI even means.

A video would be nice, but just based on what you've said I dont think you've played anyone with a proper sense of DI.

Instead of assuming things, perhaps it would be better to let you know that I don't brawl with much Link players.

Actually, I've rarely seen that one. Wanna know why? I'm rarely in a situation where an edge guard like that would work :/.

It could be that. Or, it could be something I discovered myself and hasn't been shown to the publich via YouTube and/or tournaments.

The more you say, the less I believe you play opponents that DI properly. Even then, I think it's moreso that you've never played a Decent Link.

Oh, I don't know about that. I played against a fellow who knew how to **** with Link. I was surely impressed, and that made me reconsider what Link was capable of doing, as far as fighting goes.

Pretty sure anyone on the Samus boards will tell you he's got a pretty **** Samus. . .who are you again?

I'm the guy who's been making it his mission to brawl with as many Samus players as possible.

 

[Darkest-Link]

Well duh, ok i never said they spammed it, nobody spams projectiles the whole time its always a combanation with up close fighting and projectiles (unless your somone like meta knight or DK who doesnt have projectiles) However in samus's case its not likely they are going to try physical combat right of the bat, the most likely things to happen when facing samus

A)Samus DOES spam projectiles until your high on damage and THEN close comabt (not many pros use this strategy tho)

B)Use projectiles until you come up close THEN they use close combat, when they hit you far enough then they use projectiles again until once again you make it close.

not ALL samus's use this form of fighting but these are the most common i see.

 

[Darkest-Link]

oh yes and Deva those dont look online, i have seen 1 of them b4 they look like tourney matches. What are they?


once again i cant drive and i havnt heard of any tourneys in my town (then again its not very well known) except for the midnight release......and some people already bought the japanese game that time -.- but hey maybe if im in my 20s and can some how afford a car (gas prices suck these days =() i might be able to find more =)

 

[4Serial]

A money match against one of the best players in the world.

 

[Swordplay]

Dyrn...I dare you to take Deva.....it would settle the argument once and for all.

I'm warnin ya though. Deva beat DSF. You might be in over your head if you play him.

 

[sasook]

Instead of assuming things, perhaps it would be better to let you know that I don't brawl with much Link players.

You kinda just proved his point about not playing a competent Link.

Oh, I don't know about that. I played against a fellow who knew how to **** with Link. I was surely impressed, and that made me reconsider what Link was capable of doing, as far as fighting goes.

But then you go and say this. Seems sort of contradictory to me. Who was this Link player, I'm just curious.

Well duh, ok i never said they spammed it, nobody spams projectiles the whole time its always a combanation with up close fighting and projectiles (unless your somone like meta knight or DK who doesnt have projectiles) However in samus's case its not likely they are going to try physical combat right of the bat, the most likely things to happen when facing samus

A)Samus DOES spam projectiles until your high on damage and THEN close comabt (not many pros use this strategy tho)

B)Use projectiles until you come up close THEN they use close combat, when they hit you far enough then they use projectiles again until once again you make it close.

not ALL samus's use this form of fighting but these are the most common i see.

The bold parts say it all. Not many pros.....I'm not going into that argument on whether or not "pros" even exist yet in brawl. What I will say is that this matchup is meant for the HIGHEST level of play...meaning that what the "pros" use is what matters.

What YOU see and what "pros" actually DO are different things. What YOU see online and with your friends holds no validity whatsoever, I'm sorry. Same goes for me, same goes for anyone who doesn't play in real life tournaments. I'm gonna repeat this again, go look up Xyro and Tudor if you want to see examples of good Samus players.

oh yes and Deva those dont look online, i have seen 1 of them b4 they look like tourney matches. What are they?

Those are money matches with DSF, who is currently the best player on the west coast. Money matches never take place online due to lag. Remember, at their level, even the slightest, most minimal lag that's even undetectable to humans still matters because those players play with everything perfectly spaced and everything perfectly timed.

 

[Darkest-Link]

ahhh so this is for the HIGHEST extent.....i see. I thought it was for the common battle. Ya i asked that to Deva cause i asked for any online videos he may have so i can understand his lag issue better, as i have never had that problem

 

[sasook]

ahhh so this is for the HIGHEST extent.....i see. I thought it was for the common battle.

Well....it's not so much that the common battle is insignificant as it is that the highest level matters more..............a lot more.

For example, if one was to defend Link on another board's character match up discussion, we'd be naming tons of AT's like pivot boosting and DAC. Now, the DAC is fairly simple, but mastering pivot boosting to the extent that it can be done even faster than dashing.....that's not very easy. Only the top Links can do that. That's what I meant by the highest level of play being the important matter at hand.

 

[Swordplay]

It seems the general consesus will be that the matchup will be 50:50 for Power Suit Samus.

We need more Zero Suit Samus info. I'll be posting some interesting stuff real soon.

 

[Xyro77]

If you guys need anything or have any questions about samus i here. im not afraid to tell you things that mess up samus. im here to help people.

 

[Deva]

Please don't ask me to play against an opponent who knows how to DI, especially since this is impossible for me to do. I know of no one around here in the neighborhood who plays Super Smash Bros. Brawl, let alone knows what DI even means.

I wish you would have posted this sooner. It would have saved a lot of time and useless posts.


@Darkest-Link, hey, it's np. I'd still suggest searching the regional zones forums for your area. When I first found smash boards, I mad a lot of bad posts that got flammed horribly. Someone suggested to check out regional zones and I found a small competitive community in my area. From there they set up tournaments that I attended, and let me carpool to melee tournaments in other areas. All you need to do is check. You'll be surprised what you'll find.

@Xyro, that's cool. Anything you can contribute will help. Do you play the Link matchup very often?

 

[Darkest-Link]

well ill look around.....tho not for melee, it has a different style than brawl and ussually screws me up

anyway i rarely face pro samus's so ya ill leave this one up to you

 

[Bouse]

We need more Zero Suit Samus info. I'll be posting some interesting stuff real soon.

Link:ZSS is 40:60

Zero Suit doesn't really need to worry about your Zair, even though she can space you just about as evenly with her Side+B. Her Recovery is nothing short of insane. Multiple use longrange tether, and still has 3 jumps. Her Down+B gets her out of just about every combo and her Dsmash though relatively slow, will wreck Link. The armor pieces at the beginning of the match can be used to either players advantage, but the ZSS will most likely be the person manipulating them, if they're decent. The one thing that sucks about ZSS is that unless they have very articulated joystick control they're pretty bad at roll-punishment. She has multiple spikes, stuns, and powerful aerials.

***** is crazy.

 

[Xyro77]

@Xyro, that's cool. Anything you can contribute will help. Do you play the Link matchup very often?

Problem: missles/zair. this is what gets 90% of all people.

Answer: stay in her face but yet stay at the SWORD TIP range. This allows you to keep her from spaming AND prevents her from UP+B out of shield.

Answer 2: if you arnt good at spacing then there is another way to deal with the Zair/missles. AT ALL TIMES, keep projectiles going AT samus. Wether they miss or not just do it. This will cause her to stop spaming and move.


Problem: what do i do once im in her face?

Answer: mix up jabs with tilts or SAFE smash attacks. If you jab 2 times(cancel it) then jab cancel on one jab then down smash(examples).....who the hell is gonna predict AND punish that? Mix it up to where samus goes ahead and attacks just to get shielded and punished. You could also always have a Brang flying around just to make her think "oh ****, i gotta block in the next 3 seconds" and then.......boom!!!!! Punish her for that.


Other Stuff: a good samus NEVER rolls...her roll is sheer garbage. If you catch one rolling, please greet her with a HIGHLY DAMAGING ATTACK when she comes out of it. its what i call free damage.

Other Stuff 2: dont be afraid of the charge shot....ever. ive seen so many links doing wierd stuff once im holding a fully charged shot, i think they are paying attention more to the fact i have an attack that can do massive damage(25%) then realizing that nearly EVERY move that uses links sword can cancel out the charge shot. Not to mention, if you are worried about it hitting you...throw a bomb or stand still....you wont be hurt.

Other Stuff 3: Counter pick levels! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, counter pick SMART LEVELS. No FD(why give the foe a chance to spam). Pick levels that keep her moving(so she cant spam) and maybe some platforms. Even though i CP 99% of the cast on port town, if i was a link user i would CP port town for samus. Think, samus is very close to you the entire time while the stage is moving(you have advantage). Cars can kill her at 50%. If she gets knocked off stage and if you spam right she is FORCED to come THRU the stage(theres no ledges) which in my mind would mean you could greet her with a UP+B out of shield or move until she finished with her UP+ B animation and f-smash her. That will kill her or force her to repeat the process again. USE LEVELS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE.

Other Stuff 4: SPAM! i know alot of you "dont feel right" when you sit back and spam. Think, will the foe feel bad for spamming? NO! So why should you. You(like me) use a low tier charater that SHOULD BE HIGHER.......but isnt because we havnt done good enough in tournies as a whole. Lets change that! If spamming gets you top 10......then do it. If spamming gets you higher on the tier list...do it. If spamming gets you WINS over people that you normal couldnt beat.......DO IT. Trust me, metaknight does not "feel bad" when he spams the A button. Fear not.......SPAM


Final Note: I had a blast playing all of you link guys and THANK YOU for giving me the chance to battle you.. In my opinion, link has a SLIGHT advantage on samus(if you spam right) and it may turn out to be a flat out ADVANTAGE if you counter pick levels right(and use the level against samus). Also, i do not use link AT ALL so some of this stuff may be easier said than done...im just going by what i KNOW would work and from what iv SEEN work.


PS: i mean what im about to say. i APOLOGIZE if ANYTHING i said hurt any of you. This massive post wasnt meant to degrade you. just give you an insight on what it takes to beat a samus.

PSS: Go to the samus boards and make a LINK BOARDS vs SAMUS BOARDS thread. all of you guys need to head there and challenge us. you will learn new styles and new tricks.

 

[Metro Knight]

Link at the Pro/Semi-Pro status, probably has the advantage versus the Samus and ZSS players. At around 60:40, who is a Link player on the forums that is comparable to Xyro's skill level? Like to me it seemed like Kalm and Xyro are equally experienced players, and Xyro ended up losing 3 out of 4, but than owned the other Links on the forum. Also, Xyro won several months ago versus Kalm before he got much better with Link, so perhaps at the higher levels of play Link has the advantage.

As far as ZSS goes, I can only imagine this being very similar, since neither Samus or ZSS have great kill moves.

 

[Xyro77]

Link at the Pro/Semi-Pro status, probably has the advantage versus the Samus and ZSS players. At around 60:40, who is a Link player on the forums that is comparable to Xyro's skill level? Like to me it seemed like Kalm and Xyro are equally experienced players, and Xyro ended up losing 3 out of 4, but than owned the other Links on the forum. Also, Xyro won several months ago versus Kalm before he got much better with Link, so perhaps at the higher levels of play Link has the advantage.

As far as ZSS goes, I can only imagine this being very similar, since neither Samus or ZSS have great kill moves.

on wifi, kalm is better.

in real life.........ROFL.

 

[Metro Knight]

Xyro, I love your Samus style, it reminds me a lot of Overswarm's style which is really good/annoying lol, I hope you do well in tournaments.

 

[Xyro77]

I do. i got 9th out of 118 in tx last month. im the best samus in the US right now(based off of tournie results). although, tudor and rohins may be even with me.