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Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

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M

.Marik

is a social misfit
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At least Yoshi moved up a bit...

Top of C Tier, gogogogogogogo.

*Edit* Lol at above poster. ^

Inb4seriousbusinessdiscussion.
 
MrEh

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
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bowser king said:
Doesn't bowser have one win?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229925

It has some missing info like number of entrants so I guess that could be why it wasn't counted.

-:bowser:Bowser King
Click to expand...
If you want to contribute tournament results, please provide the following:
MAKE SURE IT WAS AT LEAST 13 PEOPLE IN THE TOURNAMENT
Number of entrants
Entry fee
Where it was (what state it was in, or something)
Top 8, with character main for each of the top 8
Link to tournament page or results page
Click to expand...
Someone might have forgotten to do this. lol
 
G

Gates

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Time Walk is only truly broken in decks that aren't combo decks. In control decks, aggro control decks, and what few aggro decks there are in Vintage that run blue (probably none but the metagame has probably changed a lot since I quit so idk) Time Walk is broken as hell and it will gain you card advantage and untapped lands at worst and the game at best. In combo though, its usefulness varies a good deal.

Time Walk's main purpose in control is to get a tempo lead in the early game and win the game in the endgame. In combo, it's use is almost exclusively as bait. There was an old article (~2004-05) by Steve Menendian where he discussed this being the optimal series of turns for Long:

Turn 1: Brainstorm
Turn 2: Bait with a threat.
Turn 3: Play your real combo.

Obviously this is not the best idea since you're wasting resources, but you get the point. Combo is not simply by-the-numbers like most people thing, it also requires a lot of mindgames and reading your opponent. Because of this, a lot of combo's less broken spells (Time Walk, Merchant Scroll, Draw7s) are used as counterbait so that they can resolve the real bombs (Necropotence, Mind's Desire, Yawgmoth's Will). The opponent can't just let these slide because it will put the combo player in a large advantage and losing 1 spell and 2 mana from a countered Time Walk is better than losing lots of mana and multiple spells to a countered Mind's Desire or Yawgmoth's Bargain.

Speaking of Desire, when I play Desire Time Walk is the second to last thing I want to see (the last thing being lands, of course). Aside from being a free spell and a possible setup for a combo next turn if I somehow fizzle the combo this turn (and if I've resolved Desire chances are I'm not going to fizzle anyway), Time Walk brings absolutely nothing to the table.

A similar thing applies to Ad Nauseam and the never-was Meandeck SX. Both decks are incredibly fast with the only major differences between the two being how consistent they are (AdN is pretty reliable but SX pretty much wins randomly and it also gets ***** by your opponent playing cards). These decks are literally so fast that they don't need the help of Time Walk since they can't afford to have anything superfluous to the combo. They also don't need it as bait since they can simply overwhelm the opponent with speed instead of needing to set up and strip away the opponent's hand beforehand. AdN in particular suffers from the fact that Time Walk also costs mana, which makes it even less preferable to see off AdN than Desire. The 2 life you waste on Time Walk could have been better spent on Cabal Ritual or a pair of mana or Duress effects.

In conclusion:
  • Time Walk is generally broken but situationally bad
  • Getting off topic is always bad.
  • MK is more like Yawgmoth's Will - you play him and then you win.
 
bobson

bobson

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Messages
1,674
What the hell is Sonic doing all the way up there? Get back down to E where you belong, you no-priority mouthy punk.

ATTENTION EVERYONE: Stop being good with Sonic.
 
Y

Yonder

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Holy cheese wheels Luigi is 14. Right behind Pikachu...non tourney viable? I think Big Lou indeed proved that he is...for the most part.
 
Edo14

Edo14

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
25
CGC @ SFSU VIII
San Francisco, California
Entrants: 54
Entry Fee: $6 dollars.
http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=5222


1: Zex ( Marth, Pit, DDD?)
2: Edo ( Ike, Snake)
3: F0cus (Snake, Wario, Falco)
4: Meep ( Snake, MK)
5: michael hey( IC's, DDD )
5: catnip ( Meta knight)
7: Erow ( Snake, ZSS )
7: AD ( MK,Lucario, Kirby)
 
Bellioes

Bellioes

Smash Lord
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6 more points and Sonic makes it into B tier lol
And Lucas is on the wrong spot on the list?? Hes above Pit but has less points. Might wanna fix that.
 
Poltergust

Poltergust

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I've noticed the coloring of some names are wrong. For example, Wario moved down behind Diddy Kong, but Diddy Kong isn't in green text nor is Wario in red. Also, Yoshi should be in green since he moved ahead of Samus, who was ranked higher than him, and no one behind him passed him, either.
 
Y

Yonder

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Skyshroud said:
Don't forget about Boss...
Click to expand...
Yeah, Boss has helped too, but he's a Mario main, and uses Mario more than Weegee. Still,I love his Mario/Luigi tourney placings. Boss for Mario, Biglou for Luigi.

Speaking of Boss, I havn't seen tourney results with hm lately, unless i'm not looking at them right...
 
Tarmogoyf

Tarmogoyf

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Gates said:
Time Walk is only truly broken in decks that aren't combo decks. In control decks, aggro control decks, and what few aggro decks there are in Vintage that run blue (probably none but the metagame has probably changed a lot since I quit so idk) Time Walk is broken as hell and it will gain you card advantage and untapped lands at worst and the game at best. In combo though, its usefulness varies a good deal.

Time Walk's main purpose in control is to get a tempo lead in the early game and win the game in the endgame. In combo, it's use is almost exclusively as bait. There was an old article (~2004-05) by Steve Menendian where he discussed this being the optimal series of turns for Long:

Turn 1: Brainstorm
Turn 2: Bait with a threat.
Turn 3: Play your real combo.

Obviously this is not the best idea since you're wasting resources, but you get the point. Combo is not simply by-the-numbers like most people thing, it also requires a lot of mindgames and reading your opponent. Because of this, a lot of combo's less broken spells (Time Walk, Merchant Scroll, Draw7s) are used as counterbait so that they can resolve the real bombs (Necropotence, Mind's Desire, Yawgmoth's Will). The opponent can't just let these slide because it will put the combo player in a large advantage and losing 1 spell and 2 mana from a countered Time Walk is better than losing lots of mana and multiple spells to a countered Mind's Desire or Yawgmoth's Bargain.

Speaking of Desire, when I play Desire Time Walk is the second to last thing I want to see (the last thing being lands, of course). Aside from being a free spell and a possible setup for a combo next turn if I somehow fizzle the combo this turn (and if I've resolved Desire chances are I'm not going to fizzle anyway), Time Walk brings absolutely nothing to the table.

A similar thing applies to Ad Nauseam and the never-was Meandeck SX. Both decks are incredibly fast with the only major differences between the two being how consistent they are (AdN is pretty reliable but SX pretty much wins randomly and it also gets ***** by your opponent playing cards). These decks are literally so fast that they don't need the help of Time Walk since they can't afford to have anything superfluous to the combo. They also don't need it as bait since they can simply overwhelm the opponent with speed instead of needing to set up and strip away the opponent's hand beforehand. AdN in particular suffers from the fact that Time Walk also costs mana, which makes it even less preferable to see off AdN than Desire. The 2 life you waste on Time Walk could have been better spent on Cabal Ritual or a pair of mana or Duress effects.

In conclusion:
  • Time Walk is generally broken but situationally bad
  • Getting off topic is always bad.
  • MK is more like Yawgmoth's Will - you play him and then you win.
Click to expand...

Meh, pact of negation made combo too good. effectivley 8 FoWs make it almost impossible to lose on the play, and is only going to lose to heavy disruption on the draw. And lotus is situationally bad, moxes are, even Yawgswin (think LLoTV) isn't always prefect.

... or it was like that before they restricted Brainstorm.


And yeah, Yawgswin is more like MK. Or maybe bargain too. Or flash after Protean Hulk.

And the OP says this is the topic. Why not go at it?
 
gamesuxcard

gamesuxcard

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Must we compare Magic to Brawl? Really, last time we had something as broken as MetaKnight in Magic it was called skullclamp.
 
Shaya

Shaya

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My most recent tournament isn't in the list :(

TOURNAMENT: Sydney can't beat Novacastria
LINK: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7143598&postcount=814
DATE: April 12th, 2009
LOCALE: Australia
ENTRANTS: 20
ENTRY: $15.00
1 Shaya (Marth, King Dedede)
2 tcranter (Pokémon Trainer)
3 Scoot (Meta Knight, Pit, Falco)
4 Tedeth (Wolf, Wario, Ice Climbers)
5 FTS (Donkey Kong)
5 S.D. (Diddy Kong, Pit)
7 Zero (Zero Suit Samus)
7 Meteor (Ness)
 
Vyse

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
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Meteor continues to skew the rankings with his tier defying Ness!

I lol'd when I saw the thread title.
lol lol lol.

Go go Chromatic Orb Confetti attack!
 
Fatmanonice

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Dumb question, will Brawl+ tournaments eventually have their own rankings too? I'm asking because I'm sort of getting the feeling that it may become the competitive standard for Brawl in as little as a year seeing how fast it's spreading.
 
Thinkaman

Thinkaman

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Question: At what threshold should characters be listed?

For example, at the recent "Aerial Rave" tourney, I won every match with Jigglypuff except one case. (I went Ness when Ampharos took me to Corneria in winner's finals) It is doubtful that I could have overcome fighting a good player in a ~2:8 matchup on a stage that is fantastic for him and the worst for me, so in that sense, it seem dubious that i could have gotten 1st place without Ness. However, at the same time, every other match I used Jigglypuff.

I'm not arguing here or tryign to get anything changed, don't get me wrong. I'm just curious as to what the policy is.
 
B!squick

B!squick

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Fatmanonice said:
Dumb question, will Brawl+ tournaments eventually have their own rankings too? I'm asking because I'm sort of getting the feeling that it may become the competitive standard for Brawl in as little as a year seeing how fast it's spreading.
Click to expand...
Brawl+ is a program intended to make the lower tiers better. If the higher tiers are still good, their's no point for them to switch. Bowser is pretty much an entirely different character in B+ and feels very alien to me, which is why I'm sticking with vBrawl. A Brawl+ tourny would require more preparation to make sure all Wiis has the right codeset and whatnot. Also, they're still tweaking said codeset with no forseeable end in sight from what I can tell. You may see small Brawl+ tournies pop up more in the future, but nothing on enough of a scale that would warrent it's own list.

Plus, it's a hack. >.>
 
Y

Yonder

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slikvik said:
boss uses luigi 95% of the time in tourney
Click to expand...
Really? I thought he would use Mario more, since he mains him and does all the matchup stuff in the Mario, not the Luigi boards.
 
H

HiddenBowser

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Thinkaman said:
Question: At what threshold should characters be listed?

For example, at the recent "Aerial Rave" tourney, I won every match with Jigglypuff except one case. (I went Ness when Ampharos took me to Corneria in winner's finals) It is doubtful that I could have overcome fighting a good player in a ~2:8 matchup on a stage that is fantastic for him and the worst for me, so in that sense, it seem dubious that i could have gotten 1st place without Ness. However, at the same time, every other match I used Jigglypuff.

I'm not arguing here or tryign to get anything changed, don't get me wrong. I'm just curious as to what the policy is.
Click to expand...
Just my thoughts, but I think this type of stuff should really be taken into account. Using a character for like a single game shouldn't really gain points for the character.
 
Bellioes

Bellioes

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Anth0ny said:
Get a load of Sonic and Pokemon Trainer.

Jeez.
Click to expand...
I know man. They seriously gained a huge boost since the last update. PT in B tier and Sonic is so close to getting into B. Way to rep the low tiers guys :) (thought not that low according to this list ;))
 
Overswarm

Overswarm

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Bowyer said:
Just my thoughts, but I think this type of stuff should really be taken into account. Using a character for like a single game shouldn't really gain points for the character.
Click to expand...
The general idea is that if it is a later game, it's important. Like if I used ROB to get past someone in the top 5, I give points to ROB. If I use ROB in the first match just for the hell of it, I don't.

It certainly isn't the best system, but since we don't have accurate statistics for each individual game we can't do much about it.
 
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