The only post I ever made in the v2.0 thread in last 24 hours since the tier list update was made was both thought of and written
after the thread had exploded. I spent an hour before I threw up the post contemplating what would be a safe, inviting, nonthreatening, and sensitive approach to the situation. There have been other SBR moderators and members who have been equally as careful and cordial, but yet the couple of snarky one-liners made by one or two other members have resulted in seething hostility for the rest of the Smash Back Room.
What incentive is there for us to engage any of you if we only ever draw retorts revolving around played-out commentaries about how much "fail" we are, or that we has a collective are stupid and arrogant? This is precisely the sort of counterproductive commentary that has been personified by other posters
every single time a tier list or rule set is revised –
since these forums have been open. I've purposely taken a backseat for most of these altercations to see how most of you conducted yourselves in arguments, and the results haven't been favorable for most of you thus far.
Regardless of what you think about me or anyone else back there, most of us still believe in demonstrating basic human decency. Perpetuating a cool little SBR-shredding trend that other little kids started ages ago is more or less devoid of that.
But for as poorly as some of you have maintained your cool, sensible poise in debate, I do acknowledge that some of your other counterpoints have gone unnoticed (most likely because of the sheer speed at which the thread has grown, and not because we are actively ignoring you). In light of this, I will humor you with responses to the best of my ability:
In this specific example, Falco literally has widespread representation in
every single region of the country. This accounts for Smash-fest gatherings; small, local grassroots tournaments
and major regional circuits. Falco and a most of the other high-to-top tier characters have such strong and frequent representation at tournaments at all levels and sizes that it statistical deviations such as random sampling and skewed data no longer become that big of an issue. That's not to say that either problem
won't exist, but that the sheer number of people who will main these higher-tiered characters at tournaments will always guarantee some sort of consistent representation on a national level.
Sonic, from what I have seen, fares exceptionally well in all of your respective areas, but only on a grassroots level. You can dominate local competition all you want in small tournaments and continue to submit this data to Ankoku's character rankings list, but until Sonic does
extraordinarily well in a
major regional event (FAST, Critical Hit, HOBO, OH SNAP!, Cataclysm, Genesis, Clash of the Titans, etc.), this data simply isn't going to be the game-breaking evidence that you guys are looking for to make your case. Having the ability to beat MK and Marth mains around your town in local monthlies doesn't tell us anything about how Sonic would fare on a national level. Placing well is a good thing, but placing well in renowned tournaments with other high-level players is what turns heads.
This brings me to two related points:
- I am a Diddy Kong main from Oklahoma. I hover between being the first or second best in the state against Chuck Nasty, a Pokémon Trainer main. Chuck and I constantly trade tournament victories, but neither one of our local tournament first-place finishes (even though it is instrumental in determining things like Power Rankings) has really made any impact on what the popular consensus of either character currently is. The only reason people have started taking into account my own personal tournament results when judging the competitive worth of Diddy Kong on a national level is because I started traveling to other, more competitive regions. Since then, I have beaten many players from Texas, and have placed well and even won their own tournaments.
The last tournament I hosted (OH SNAP! v4.0) featured 112 players, with almost half of the participants coming from out of state (Texas and Utah). I finished third place behind Dojo (MK) and Roy_R (Marth), and beat a slew of marquee Texas players to get to that point. Somehow, my third-place finish at this tournament (and even my tied-for-13th-place finish at HOBO 11) was way more crucial to the elevation of Diddy's national profile than any of my first-place wins at local grassroots monthlies. Chuck, even though he is currently ranked the #1 player in Oklahoma and still continues to trade victories with me, does not travel and therefore his results do not account as a strong enough element to take into consideration in tier list updates. He could very well be included in the ranks of Top 20 Players in the United States someday, but until he decides to go out, travel and vet himself against opponents with any sort of skill and notoriety recognized by the community at large, he will continue to go completely unnoticed.
This the cruel reality of being talented but yet not have the ability, resources or drive to travel. This is the case I imagine most of you Sonic mains to be in.
- Ankoku's character rankings list is not representative of the entire country at large. The fact that so much weekly data goes unreported is indisputable, either because people don't know about Ankoku's list or they are simply to lazy to submit results. This makes his list abysmally skewed; so much to the point that we didn't even use any of his compiled data as hard evidence while making the tier list. It was just something we looked at, nothing more and nothing less. The actual making of the tier list was completely indepedent of Ankoku's character rankings.
The other thing that makes it so skewed is you guys, the Sonic Boards. You guys are very aggressive about reporting your victories and successes (a great thing!), and I can easily say that out of all the lower-tiered character forums, you all are the most passionate about this. But because of this, it is also easy to envision that Ganondorf and Link and other low-tier mains are simply just not reporting their results (I know for a fact that Chuck Nasty has not and probably never will report any of his first-place finishes). Due to the freeform and voluntary nature of Ankoku's list, it just can't be referred to as an end-all-be-all resource for the successes of low-tier characters, especially Sonic.
If we had some method where all Smash-fest tournaments, local monthlies and major regional circuit events could have their results automatically reported to one person, this would hardly be an issue. Of course, this is impossible (or at least unfeasible), there's so much margin of influence by human error and lack of motivation in the character rankings list because its function is built on a "report your own results" philosophy. You may be able to extract some sort of reliable data for higher-tiered characters by looking at this (only because mains for these characters are so rampant), but the data gets drastically more unreliable the further down the list you move. So...that's that.
At the end of the day, Sonic mains just haven't beaten anybody of any note at any major tournament, despite what Ankoku's character rankings list reflects. These are
facts, and I really don't know how to spell it out any clearer for you guys. Until this occurs, Sonic will be doomed to mill around the dredges of the lower tiers.
For the record though, I like Sonic a lot and believe he is solid mid-tier material. I've played two talented Sonics recently, and both sets have made me revaluate how exactly I feel about both Sonic as a viable character and my respective match-up with him. I believe it wouldn't hurt anybody to have him move up a spot or two, either, but the new tier list has been released, and revisions will not be made until summertime. What's done is done.
I hope this has been helpful.
theyre scrub tourneys, i know it lol
