Character Competitive Impressions

[Chuva]

Rosalina sans luma still has a better jab, grab and dash attack (due to actually having mobility) that allows her to at least be threatening. She can pressure people off-stage more than zelda with down air and back air, can juggle people better with up-air, and has a more reliable kill option in up-smash.

Zelda is actually an awful character that can't compete, rosalina sans luma still has basic options that work, they're just way undertuned.

Their jabs and dash attacks have different utilities. Zelda has a much more rewarding edgeguard with ledge Dtilt and offstage Dair (even sourspot), which is complemented by her better aerial mobility. SoloRosa's Usmash is actually risky save for specific anti-air/OoS punish situations, in which case it's not that much better than Zelda's Usmash (that has the bonus of 25 active frames) or even Farore - and both have way more kill power.

With that said, Zelda also has better damage, punishes, overall kill-power, OoS options, combos, mixups, offense and ways of getting back onstage.

My point is not to oversell Zelda as your generic "character people sleep on", but claiming she's worse than Solo Rosalina is a bit of an exaggeration. Luma IS a big deal for Rosalina and there is a reason Dabuz plays conservatively with air-dodges and rolls most of the time he is Lumaless.

 

[Nabbitnator]

honestly a good enough nerf would be that she has to have luma to be able to recover à la Ice Climbers. Also increasing the time she has before Luma respawns alongside this would be good.

Instead of increase the time before luma respawns we need to focus on knocking luma out consistently. First we have to find a way to deny her the right to run away and once we can do that we can deny luma from coming back to the stage.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Wait.... you think Little Mac wins against Villager? Just curious, but can you elaborate on why?

I personally don't but, in my experience, the match up can go downhill fast if Little Mac stays on top of Villager. Villager's main "OH GOD, GET OFF ME" moves are its jab, ftilt, and short hopped nair. Jab and ftilt don't hit your opponent very far away, even if they land and Little Mac has fantastic reach so even landing the attacks at low percentages can lead to punishes. There's also the fact that whiffing a shield grab with Villager against Little Mac is likely to lead into a hard punish so, even though it can put him in a very vulnerable position off stage, it's still pretty risky. Camping against Little Mac is pretty hard too because of how fast he runs and he can run under most fairs and bairs. Then there's the issue of the KO punch... Since Villager doesn't have close quarters options against Little Mac, it puts a ton of pressure on Villager if Little Mac gets close. Grab releases into the ground are especially precarious and you're practically forced to the air because all of Villager's stage options are likely to lead to a hard punish. Villager's rolls aren't great and Villager is one of the slowest characters in the game so trying to escape this way is predictable against Little Macs. It also takes 3-4 long distance fairs/bairs to knock Little Mac out of the KO punch so it forces Villager to go into super campy 64 mode to keep Little Mac from getting too close for comfort.

Off stage, Villager has plenty of tools to get the job done and the tables turn completely. Thanks to having the most reliable recovery in the game and Little Mac having the worst, there's very little risk in chasing Little Mac off stage. Even without leaving the stage, Villager can very easily force options against Little Mac by planting a tree or trying to fake out with a bowling ball to cover the ledge. When Little Mac is trying to get back to the stage, this is also the time where shield grabs aren't terrible in this matchup but fthrow doesn't send the opponent very far away so it boils down to who screws up first.

Overall, I think Villager has a slight advantage where Villager has enough defensive tools to get the job done but Little Mac practically forces Villager to be campy to begin with, probably more so than most of the cast. Villager can't annoy Little Mac to death like it can against most of the cast and Little Mac can gain the upper hand by being extremely patient and taking full advantages of any openings. If I had to do a percentage scale, I'd say 60-40 in Villager's favor.

 

[Ghostbone]

Their jabs and dash attacks have different utilities.

Yea, Rosalina's are useful, Zelda's aren't (ok dash attack is ok at catching people off guard)

Zelda has a much more rewarding edgeguard with ledge Dtilt and offstage Dair (even sourspot), which is complemented by her better aerial mobility.

Doesn't matter if they won't land on a competent opponent, rosalina's aerials cover more space and are thus more threatening.

SoloRosa's Usmash is actually risky save for specific anti-air/OoS punish situations, in which case it's not that much better than Zelda's Usmash (that has the bonus of 25 active frames) or even Farore - and both have way more kill power.

The hitbox is way better and it's less punishable and she has more dash speed so she can catch landings better. All the smashes on both characters are risky so I'm not sure what your point is.

With that said, Zelda also has better damage, punishes, overall kill-power, OoS options, combos, mixups, offense and ways of getting back onstage.

You're just spouting terms without backing them up.
Better damage sure, but that damage comes at the cost of frame data. Her punishes might be stronger but she has less mobility to actually be able to punish people. Her kill power might be better in terms of pure numbers but it's all on unsafe/unreliable moves. Mixups is completely arguable, I'd say Rosalina's mixups in neutral are stronger because of her faster dash speed and better dash grab/dash attack/jab. Both their OoS options are terrible so it hardly matters. I doubt zelda has better combos as rosalina still has throw > uairs that chain into each other/catch air dodges, they just don't hit in front of her. Zelda's offense is atrocious bro, so is rosalina's i guess but at least she has dash speed. Zelda's recovery is harder to punish though.

My point is not to oversell Zelda as your generic "character people sleep on", but claiming she's worse than Solo Rosalina is a bit of an exaggeration. Luma IS a big deal for Rosalina and there is a reason Dabuz plays conservatively with air-dodges and rolls most of the time he is Lumaless.

Luma's a big deal, and Rosalina is awful without her, Zelda is just more awful.

Idk why I'm arguing about this though, it was more of a joke than anything, but it's interesting to consider how bad solo rosalina in the same way it was interesting to consider how bad popo or ivysaur were in brawl, except solo rosalina is even more purely theorycraft because it only lasts for 13 seconds and the character basically exists just to camp for luma to respawn.

Also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2onRCbHG7E#t=1h28m45s

The villager vs little mac matchup looks awful for little mac tbh.

double post rip

 

[Jellyfish4102]

People are so biased. So many posts on why Rosalina should be nerfed when there was only one significant Rosalina player at CEO and there was a whole hoard of Sheiks.

Having thought about it, I feel like the best way to nerf Sheik without hurting her viability is to remove the knockback on partially charged needles. That way her very safe melee distance pressure is still intact but her projectile pressure is not so safe. Spamming needles won't shut down her opponents but will still do moderate damage.

 

[Antonykun]

Wait.... you think Little Mac wins against Villager? Just curious, but can you elaborate on why?

all her good tools in neutral are from aerials but sh is so floaty and has really poor air speed
This means she is very vulnerable to anyone to just about anyone with good groundspeed and ground buttons

Little Mac can just ignore any attempts villager can do to zone with a dash shield and because it takes a while before she can zone again and use his amazing tilts to punish Villager doesn't even get the privilege of back throwing little mac because her throw is the definition of booty

 

[David Viran]

People are so biased. So many posts on why Rosalina should be nerfed when there was only one significant Rosalina player at CEO and there was a whole hoard of Sheiks.

Having thought about it, I feel like the best way to nerf Sheik without hurting her viability is to remove the knockback on partially charged needles. That way her very safe melee distance pressure is still intact but her projectile pressure is not so safe. Spamming needles won't shut down her opponents but will still do moderate damage.

No sheiks accept zero were in top 8 tho.

 

[Iron Kraken]

I've been maining Rosalina since Day 1. Zelda may be trash but SoloRosa is infinitely more trash.

She's one of the lightest characters in the game and one of the biggest targets. She's a sitting duck during her recovery.

Without Luma, her jab is bad. She has no side-B. She has much less range on her smash attacks (especially F-Smash) and much less kill power. U-Smash doesn't kill most characters until around 140% without Luma.

Without Luma, her aerials all stink. She still has the halo disjoints, but without Luma she has no hitbox directly above/below/beside her. It's much harder to combo off throws, and she's in serious danger to whiff an aerial and get a big punish for it.

Basically, SoloRosa has almost no kill potential and no combo game, is a big, light, sitting duck with no protection, an easily interceptable recovery, no projectile... Ugh I mean, I could keep going, but SoloRosa would be by far the worst character in the history of Smash.

But of course, one thing Rosa can do pretty well is run around for 15 seconds or so (12.55 seconds + whatever time Luma spends in free fall before it dies)... Which is why Rosa is just fine. But the notion that Rosalina is better than Zelda without Luma is absurd.

Also, I just have to shake my head whenever I see someone suggesting once again increasing the respawn timer for Luma. This would only cause Rosalina to run away even more during the match, and would make things less fun for everyone. Rosalina doesn't need a nerf anymore than the other top tiers, but if you are going to nerf Rosa, just take away Luma's ability to kill at the top of the stage at absurdly low %s. Rosalina doesn't need that. But please, do not increase the respawn timer.

 

[Shaya]

Hit Luma with things that apply enough knock back with not too much lag lest you get dash something'd by Rosalina; voila! Hit luma every time it's not protected? Not as hard as you think.

Either way, she isn't exactly broken; her up air strings off the top are cheesy. She's top tier in the sense that her match ups are strong and she doesn't have pronounced weaknesses. Kinda feel like the attitudes here are like those of Sonic a couple months back...

And lord almighty people haven't been saying Solo Rosa is strong since week 2 of 3DS... Jesus. SHE ISN'T.
The end.
(although it may be a fun conversation, characters ARE NOT THAT BAD, this isn't sopo being able to solo chain grab 2/3rds of the cast into an fsmash at the ledge up to 80% that many couldn't recover from, this is a character that legitimately can only roll or float out of danger without Luma around).

 

[Kofu]

Little Mac can just ignore any attempts villager can do to zone with a dash shield and because it takes a while before she can zone again and use his amazing tilts to punish Villager doesn't even get the privilege of back throwing little mac because her throw is the definition of booty

No I'm pretty sure Peach's BThrow is the definition of booty.

I know you mean Villager's poor grab and low BKB on BThrow let me play dumb this once.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Also, I really do think that people struggle with Rosalina so much because they don't understand her. Personally, I find Rosalina easy to fight. I've had a bunch of Rosalina dittos with Dabuz and basically go toe-to-toe with him in the ditto, but I lose more often to his Olimar. Even when I use my secondary (Pit), fighting Rosalina just doesn't seem very difficult for me. And I really think it's because I understand how Rosalina works. I understand when I need to worry about Luma and when I don't, so I don't allow Luma to hit me for punishing Rosa, and at the same time I don't allow my fear of Rosa to stop my combos on her. I know when to take out Luma, and I know when to body for Rosa for using her laggy moves. When I fight her, she just seems like such a big, juicy target. But again, that's because I have an understanding for the character. I don't think most people understand her at all. Like anything else in Smash, power comes from knowledge.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Also, I really do think that people struggle with Rosalina so much because they don't understand her .

Actually I think the people struggling and complaining understand full well the problem with the character. The disjoints are too much. They are too big, too easy to land and protect Rosa too well.
Extreme examples like DK's f-tilt which can literally have his fingers touching your character model vs. Rosaluma's not-even-near-you-animations-and-it-hits.
They designed this character with disjoints in mind, halos, luma, galaxies, etc... but it's too much. The hitboxes need to be pared down. You need surgical precision to play Samus, you can splash paint around when playing Rosa. That gap, it's too big. A gap should exist, but it's too big presently.
Also side note: complaining that rosa's up-smash kills at 140 without luma is a bit rich.
I think people stuggling and complaining about Sheik also understand the problem with the character. There's almost no window to punish anything, she's broken by design. Yes execution can falter and Sheik can lose, no question, but the basic design is broken, when it fails it's the human element that's actually failing.

 

[Antonykun]

Yea, Rosalina's are useful, Zelda's aren't (ok dash attack is ok at catching people off guard)

Doesn't matter if they won't land on a competent opponent, rosalina's aerials cover more space and are thus more threatening.

The hitbox is way better and it's less punishable and she has more dash speed so she can catch landings better. All the smashes on both characters are risky so I'm not sure what your point is.

You're just spouting terms without backing them up.
Better damage sure, but that damage comes at the cost of frame data. Her punishes might be stronger but she has less mobility to actually be able to punish people. Her kill power might be better in terms of pure numbers but it's all on unsafe/unreliable moves. Mixups is completely arguable, I'd say Rosalina's mixups in neutral are stronger because of her faster dash speed and better dash grab/dash attack/jab. Both their OoS options are terrible so it hardly matters. I doubt zelda has better combos as rosalina still has throw > uairs that chain into each other/catch air dodges, they just don't hit in front of her. Zelda's offense is atrocious bro, so is rosalina's i guess but at least she has dash speed. Zelda's recovery is harder to punish though.

Luma's a big deal, and Rosalina is awful without her, Zelda is just more awful.

Idk why I'm arguing about this though, it was more of a joke than anything, but it's interesting to consider how bad solo rosalina in the same way it was interesting to consider how bad popo or ivysaur were in brawl, except solo rosalina is even more purely theorycraft because it only lasts for 13 seconds and the character basically exists just to camp for luma to respawn.

Also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2onRCbHG7E#t=1h28m45s

The villager vs little mac matchup looks awful for little mac tbh.

double post rip

I'm going to sound very rude but that mac was not playing very well...
he rarely rolled behind the Lloyd and when he did it was at close range where an F-smash would be just as good

 

[Iron Kraken]

Actually I think the people struggling and complaining understand full well the problem with the character. The disjoints are too much. They are too big, too easy to land and protect Rosa too well.
Extreme examples like DK's f-tilt which can literally have his fingers touching your character model vs. Rosaluma's not-even-near-you-animations-and-it-hits.
They designed this character with disjoints in mind, halos, luma, galaxies, etc... but it's too much. The hitboxes need to pared down. You need surgical precision to play Samus, you can splash paint around when playing Rosa. That gap, it's too big.
Also side note: complaining that rosa's up-smash kills at 140 without luma is a bit rich.
I think people stuggling and complaining about Sheik also understand the problem with the character. There's almost no window to punish anything, she's broken by design. Yes execution can falter and Sheik can lose, no question, but the basic design is broken, when it fails it's the human element that's actually failing.

You misunderstand me. I'm not complaining that SoloRosa's up-smash without Luma kills at 140. I was simply responding to the argument that SoloRosa is better than Zelda, which isn't true.

And yes, Rosalina is top tier. I actually believe she is somewhere between the 2nd and 4th best character in the game. But I do believe that a lot of the reason people struggle with her is the fact that they don't understand her very well (in addition to her huge hitboxes and all the other attributes that make her top tier).

 

[Big-Cat]

Actually I think the people struggling and complaining understand full well the problem with the character. The disjoints are too much. They are too big, too easy to land and protect Rosa too well.
Extreme examples like DK's f-tilt which can literally have his fingers touching your character model vs. Rosaluma's not-even-near-you-animations-and-it-hits.
They designed this character with disjoints in mind, halos, luma, galaxies, etc... but it's too much. The hitboxes need to be pared down. You need surgical precision to play Samus, you can splash paint around when playing Rosa. That gap, it's too big. A gap should exist, but it's too big presently.
Also side note: complaining that rosa's up-smash kills at 140 without luma is a bit rich.
I think people stuggling and complaining about Sheik also understand the problem with the character. There's almost no window to punish anything, she's broken by design. Yes execution can falter and Sheik can lose, no question, but the basic design is broken, when it fails it's the human element that's actually failing.

She's not broken by design IMO. She needs commitment on some moves though. More cool down on needles, fixed FAir knockback, and helpless state on whiffed Bouncing Fish.

I honestly believe Rosalina is fine as is. If you ask me, people aren't learning the matchup or fundamentals. If you complain about her UAir, complain about all others because you shouldn't be above the opponent.

 

[NairWizard]

People are legitimately crazy for wanting to nerf Rosalina so heavily. Reducing some of her knockback to prevent early up-air or up-tilt (with Rage) KOs, that's an adjustment that I think would be fine given her disjoints. But this is a character who is as tall as Ganondorf, as wide as Bowser (the dress has a hurtbox), and lighter than Pikachu. Without Luma she would literally be a slightly heavier Mewtwo, only without a side-b, with an even worse recovery, much smaller hitboxes, no KO throw, no 26% max-charge projectile, a worse reflector...

Rosalina is worse than one of the worst characters in the game by a non-trivial margin without Luma.

I think some of her kit is overtuned as much as that of any other top tier, but please, let's remain objective about this. This thread deserves to be held to higher standards.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Is there any character worse than Rosalina by herself?

Toon Link without Bombs has the worst moveset in the game easy. Short range and low damage on basically everything, grab and throws suck, can't edgeguard basically anyone who recovers low, frame data is not super good in spite of basically competing with Luigi in terms of overall range.

By the way for all the people who are trying to mention Zelda, I'm going to state it again. Zelda is quite underrated as of her recent buffs. The landing lag reductions especially on D-air and N-air are very useful. One of Zelda's biggest problems is requiring really situational spacing to punish you from the air. The changes to both D-air and N-air allow her to set up combos with aerials that are by far much less spacing dependent than anything else she's been given. Granted you don't want to use these on shield if you can avoid it, but you can definitely combo D-air -> U-air for a really long time well into KO ranges, and N-air -> D-tilt/D-smash/U-tilt/Up-B at any percent.

 

[hypersonicJD]

I think that Sheik does need a big nerf. Up Air, Fair and N-Air are just stupid. Almost little to no lag in his attacks and his impossible to hit her. She also has Forward tilt which almost locks the opponent and you get easily 20 damage of a Forward Tilt combo. Bounching Fish should be interrupted by a fast attack. Like Sonic's or Falco's Fair. Or a Captain Falcon Up Air. Something really fast.

 

[Mario766]

Bouncing Fish has invincibility but has little disjoint. Any disjoint beats Bouncing Fish.

 

[Superbat]

Opinions on Falco? I think he's mid tier at best. His butt mobility is the only thing that's holding him back.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Opinions on Falco? I think he's mid tier at best. His butt mobility is the only thing that's holding him back.

Yeah that's what people say. Still sleeping on his combo game though.

Why are people complaining about Rosalina. Dabuz was the only one at CEO. If anything lets complain about the problem that plagues viewers and players alike: Sonic. There were like 4 Sonics and they were all excruciatingly painful to watch unless @ NickRiddle was bodying them.

 

[Firefoxx]

Opinions on Falco? I think he's mid tier at best. His butt mobility is the only thing that's holding him back.

1.0.8 made it so that if you let him get in, he will make you regret it big time. But he still can't really get in too well and that weakness is only going to be easier to exploit in this sword heavy meta.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I don't find Sonic painful to watch at all. Sonic being "cancer" is such a silly exaggeration. Certainly a lot more entertaining to watch than Sheik, Diddy, Luigi.

He's a difficult character to play. More so than a lot of top tier characters. I find it fun trying to figure out which option within their options they're going to try to use.

Granted, I found the Ike vs Sonic MU fun to play before the most recent patch, so maybe I have something a bit off in my head.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Opinions on Falco? I think he's mid tier at best. His butt mobility is the only thing that's holding him back.

I think he's good now. Nothing special, but the patch does a lot for him and made him not booty. Definitely more fun anywho.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't find Sonic painful to watch at all. Sonic being "cancer" is such a silly exaggeration. Certainly a lot more entertaining to watch than Sheik, Diddy, Luigi.

He's a difficult character to play. More so than a lot of top tier characters. I find it fun trying to figure out which option within their options they're going to try to use.

I dunno, man. Being able to "abandon ship," so to speak, in neutral is kinda...lame. Sonic doesn't toe-to-toe like those characters; he literally throws himself at you in hopes of getting a hit confirm and if he misses, he's out. It's frustrating to watch (admittedly, sometimes) and play against.

But I agree, after having talked to StaticManny about the character, he's really difficult to play optimally.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Fatmanonice]

Kind of weird that there's so many complaints about and Star Fetus when hardly anyone plays as her. She's ridiculous in the right hands but, aside from Dabuz, is there really any other noteworthy Rosetta Stone players? Honestly, I'm okay that she's kind of bull**** because she's hard to learn and probably the third hardest character to get down in this game after and . It's like , a character that definitely separates the men from the boys and if you don't know how they work or your respective match up, you're going to get destroyed. You can't ad-lib against good Rosalina players. I'd be a lot more concerned if she was pick up and play but she's far from it. Right now, she reminds me of , someone who people bemoan is unstoppable because of how they look on paper but then discover they have exploitable weaknesses and, gosh golly dern, have legitimate counterpicks. In a year's time, I don't think she'll be someone that people widely complain about anymore.

 

[Makorel]

I go back and forth on how I feel about Sonic, but I've never seen anyone get shut down as hard as Anti's Mario did while playing StaticManny's Sonic.

 

[Ffamran]

I think that Sheik does need a big nerf. Up Air, Fair and N-Air are just stupid. Almost little to no lag in his attacks and his impossible to hit her. She also has Forward tilt which almost locks the opponent and you get easily 20 damage of a Forward Tilt combo. Bounching Fish should be interrupted by a fast attack. Like Sonic's or Falco's Fair. Or a Captain Falcon Up Air. Something really fast.

Nerfing her Uair would be like nerfing her Bair again. She'd lose another kill tool which she already has few and few reliable ones since last I checked, relying on Smashes to kill isn't exactly a good thing, especially if they're weak to begin with. Nerfing Fair could create more problems if it's too weak and she can just string Fairs even more or it ends up too strong as the "nerf" was supposed to make it more difficult to combo with, but now she has another kill tool sort of. As for nerfing Nair, we might as well nerf Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi's Nair too. Oh, and Fox's cause it's pretty fast too. I don't see a lot of Sheik players spam Nair to get out of combos unlike those 4 because she doesn't need to as she rarely gets caught into those while Fox mixes up Nair and Dair to get out.

Her Ftilt was actually worse at launch where it comboed even better. It's already been nerfed and if you want it to be nerfed, then nerf Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi?, Fox, Falco, Link, and Toon Link's Utilt too. They all do the same thing at low percents and on fast fallers, but after than, they start doing something else like killing for Link or setting up followups for Fox. Also, 20% damage isn't a lot, but it's kind of a lot for Sheik. Falco and Mega Man with stupid DI can probably chain 3 Up Smashes; not sure how much Mega Man's does, but Falco can get 48%. At the minimum, they're getting 2 Up Smashes and that's 32% for Falco. Or compare this to what Luigi can get with D-throw. Sheik's damage output is fast, but it's pitiful. A bad Sheik can pile on damage however she wants, but she's not going to kill easily, but a good Sheik? A good Sheik does not care if she has to take you to 200% to kill you; she knows how to kill you and playing it safe aka "campy" will be something she does.

Sonic's Fair is fast at frame 5, but I don't know if it's safe like Falco or Pikachu who both have frame 10 Fairs. Safe as in Pikachu's disjoint and whatever the hell Falco's does. Captain Falcon can just wait for stupid Bouncing Fish plays and punish her. The thing with Bouncing Fish is that it's pretty much her best kill move since there's so much you can setup into it. Making it worse could potentially kill Sheik.

We've had discussions about nerfing Sheik and changes to her, but it was agreed that Needles are a big problem and nerfing her in the wrong way could potentially make her go from top tier to low tier if it's that badly done. Even the theory of her low kill potential is an issue where it will take very, very good Sheik players to play her and outplay the opponent. You have to know exactly what she can do to even be average with her which might be a thing in the future.

Slightly increased end lag on Needles - she should not be able to throw out ranged 1%, cause hit stun, and walk up while throwing another 1% at the opponent -, reduced range on Needles, and revert her Bair to pre-patch 1.0.6 for compensation.

Kind of weird that there's so many complaints about and Star Fetus when hardly anyone plays as her. She's ridiculous in the right hands but, aside from Dabuz, is there really any other noteworthy Rosetta Stone players? Honestly, I'm okay that she's kind of bull**** because she's hard to learn and probably the third hardest character to get down in this game after and . It's like , a character that definitely separates the men from the boys and if you don't know how they work or your respective match up, you're going to get destroyed. You can't ad-lib against good Rosalina players. I'd be a lot more concerned if she was pick up and play but she's far from it. Right now, she reminds me of , someone who people bemoan is unstoppable because of how they look on paper but then discover they have exploitable weaknesses and, gosh golly dern, have legitimate counterpicks. In a year's time, I don't think she'll be someone that people widely complain about anymore.

Heard good things about Nite from the Midwest - or was it Giganite? -, I guess Falln?, and Mew2King would be a good Rosalina & Luma player if he spent more time with them.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't think Rosa's done growing, tech-wise. Don't count her out yet.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Project Quarantine]

Lucario at 0 rage and Olimar without pikmin are both worse than Rosalina without luma.

Is max rage Lucario the best character in the game?

 

[Iron Kraken]

Very few people play Rosalina, but there are at least a few other Rosalinas besides Dabuz.

The ones I know of are Falln, Xaltis, iiGGY, and Rayquaza.

iiGGY and Rayquaza didn't attend CEO, but Falln came in 17th place, while Xaltis came in 25th place. In addition, another Rosalina player named Neos finished in 25th place at CEO.

I really recommend watching some videos of Falln playing Rosalina if you want to see a very different style of Rosalina from Dabuz's. I think Falln has potential to make a lot of noise in the future.

The Rosa mains are a pretty tight group, we're always working on new tech together.

 

[Speed Boost]

Lucario at 0 rage and Olimar without pikmin are both worse than Rosalina without luma.

Is max rage Lucario the best character in the game?

Max rage Lucario is the most powerful and scary character in the game, but not the best IMO. Strictly because he is one hit from being no rage Lucario. He has to be close to death to be any good, because his normals and followups just aren't up to par. He is only an above average character because of aurarage.

 

[PUK]

Lucario at 0 rage and Olimar without pikmin are both worse than Rosalina without luma.

Is max rage Lucario the best character in the game?

yes for pikminless olimar but lucario has a kit weak but complete
But max rage lucario sucks, like jigg with a 10 hp shield lol

 

[Fatmanonice]

Lucario at 0 rage and Olimar without pikmin are both worse than Rosalina without luma.

Is max rage Lucario the best character in the game?

Might as well throw "Light Weight Worn Off" Palutena and "Outta Spells" Robin in this too.

Regarding Rosalina, don't get me wrong, I think she's going to stay a great character but I think part of the issue is she's one of the outlying characters that hardly anyone bothers to pick up because they're hard to learn. Few people play as her so, in turn, few people regularly fight her and so few people know how to fight her. Even at higher levels of play, characters with high learning curves still tend to scare people off. In Brawl, this was largely evidenced by the lack of high level and , with most of their track record and acclaim being from a handful of really good players.

 

[NickRiddle]

Yeah that's what people say. Still sleeping on his combo game though.

Why are people complaining about Rosalina. Dabuz was the only one at CEO. If anything lets complain about the problem that plagues viewers and players alike: Sonic. There were like 4 Sonics and they were all excruciatingly painful to watch unless @ NickRiddle was bodying them.

I saved the stream :3

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't find Sonic painful to watch at all. Sonic being "cancer" is such a silly exaggeration. Certainly a lot more entertaining to watch than Sheik, Diddy, Luigi.

Neither Diddy nor Sheik are boring to watch at top level. I agree Luigi is pretty braindead but Sonic ain't that much better.

Honestly, Sonic's character design is quite cancerous. I don't really see why that's even up for discussion.

 

[NickRiddle]

I love watching/playing against Sonic...
But I'm weird.

 

[Unknownkid]

I don't believe your matches vs Sonic were on stream. What exactly makes the ZSS vs Sonic in ZSS favor? If it really because of most Sonic's play a campy style, would Samus/Link have a positive match up against Sonic as well?

 

[Speed Boost]

I love watching/playing against Sonic...
But I'm weird.

Please explain what you love about watching somebody camp with spin dash until they time someone out? It's disgusting that it even exists. **** Sonic and anyone who plays him like that. Yall don't deserve to have your names mentioned in the same sentence with these other top players.

 

[Smog Frog]

Please explain what you love about watching somebody camp with spin dash until they time someone out? It's disgusting that it even exists. **** Sonic and anyone who plays him like that. Yall don't deserve to have your names mentioned in the same sentence with these other top players.

if you think thats how is played optimally you dont know how the character works