Character Competitive Impressions

[bc1910]

I mean I'm aware of press and hold but....does how long you tap actually affect the tap normal? This character's precision levels are literally off the wall.

So Ryu has varying frame data...within his frame data, if this is all correct. Good lord that's complicated. I guess your best bet is to average it out (reasonable input, etc.) and use that number. On average Jab is frame 3 IIRC, so that would be what I'd go with.

An average isn't that useful. Ryu's frame data should include the range of values each move's startup can be. Different people and different controllers will hit different numbers; if you have fast fingers and a good controller, you'll be able to hit the frame 2 jab easily. If your A button is a tad sticky or you can't release the button quickly, you'll hit the frame 3 or even frame 4 jab. I'd wager the top Ryus will make a point of learning the timing for the frame 2 jab.

His frame data should look like Jab (light) startup: Variable, F2-4

It'll have to be made clear that it's variable startup and not just hitbox active frames.

 

[T-nuts]

Fair's landing lag is pretty negligble, if he Fairs forward OoS he can jump again and try to avoid being punished. I really recommend Fair OoS against tall people and any other shield option against Mario height or shorter. Rule of thumb but yeah. If they shield your Fair OoS because it's pre-emptive it's also a theoretical punish. In the air he's bad unless he's not in disadvantage. If it whiffs he's in a bad position, yeah. It's a great shield option against anyone of normal height, otherwise I recommend shield drop True SRK heavy, roll, or just SRK OoS.

Yeah, I suppose fair being punishable if it misses is no different than many great OoS up-b's being punishable if they miss. The important thing is just to make sure fair will be fast/close enough to punish, and then it's still a great option.

I guess I'm mostly curious about his ability to land in situations where he is in the air (not offstage, but above it) and his opponent is on the ground. Say, after a juggle. And I know it's best to just powershield projectiles for the most part, but if he did jump to avoid a projectile, wouldn't he be easier to punish than almost any other character due to his inability to change direction?

 

[Nocally]

Yeah, I suppose fair being punishable if it misses is no different than many great OoS up-b's being punishable if they miss. The important thing is just to make sure fair will be fast/close enough to punish, and then it's still a great option.

I guess I'm mostly curious about his ability to land in situations where he is in the air (not offstage, but above it) and his opponent is on the ground. Say, after a juggle. And I know it's best to just powershield projectiles for the most part, but if he did jump to avoid a projectile, wouldn't he be easier to punish than almost any other character due to his inability to change direction?

He is not entirely unable to change directions , he can cancel his down-b and move either left or right, it's not really the same, but it's something.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Focus attack is gonna be Ryu's main tool in his meta, I think. The ability to change direction and momentum in the air as well as getting hit/kill confirms from it will be key. Both opponents and users will have to learn how this works because one wrong move from either side can be fatal.

 

[Kofu]

Hey, quick question here. I don't know a lot about how Ryu works but understand that you can cancel many of his attacks into others. I know how Focus Attack cancels but I am not sure if others (like his tilts) do, or if they just have really early IASA frames. Any clarification would be nice.

 

[Pyr]

Hey, quick question here. I don't know a lot about how Ryu works but understand that you can cancel many of his attacks into others. I know how Focus Attack cancels but I am not sure if others (like his tilts) do, or if they just have really early IASA frames. Any clarification would be nice.

On hit (shield hit or otherwise), his Down and up Tilts can cancel into a special attack. This may be for both the light and the heavy versions, but, honestly, the light versions are so fast that I can't say with confidence. His light jab might also have the mechanic.

Failing to hit means that the cancel cannot be performed, so it's either IASA specifically on hit, or it's just a unique mechanic.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Yeah, I suppose fair being punishable if it misses is no different than many great OoS up-b's being punishable if they miss. The important thing is just to make sure fair will be fast/close enough to punish, and then it's still a great option.

I guess I'm mostly curious about his ability to land in situations where he is in the air (not offstage, but above it) and his opponent is on the ground. Say, after a juggle. And I know it's best to just powershield projectiles for the most part, but if he did jump to avoid a projectile, wouldn't he be easier to punish than almost any other character due to his inability to change direction?

Depending on the MU ryu basically lands for free. It's a lot harder to trap his landing than any other character because of FA. Ryu can change direction in air better than most because of focus dash and jump tastu.

I keep hearing people say ryu has trouble getting in. However, I'm curious if people are focusing through prohectiles or not. I haven't tested it much but I don't thibj there's many multi hit projectiles in this game.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Depending on the MU ryu basically lands for free. It's a lot harder to trap his landing than any other character because of FA. Ryu can change direction in air better than most because of focus dash and jump tastu.

I keep hearing people say ryu has trouble getting in. However, I'm curious if people are focusing through prohectiles or not. I haven't tested it much but I don't thibj there's many multi hit projectiles in this game.

I don't think you get much from focusing a projectile other than damage. It's not like SF4 where you can just do it and not worry too much about taking damage since you can actually punish the user. Then again, I'm not sure how helpful it is in Sm4sh since I haven't faced a Ryu who focuses them.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I don't think you get much from focusing a projectile other than damage. It's not like SF4 where you can just do it and not worry too much about taking damage since you can actually punish the user. Then again, I'm not sure how helpful it is in Sm4sh since I haven't faced a Ryu who focuses them.

Depending on the distance/ projectile you may be able to punish. I'm not sure of the frame data in this case but it's something worth looking into.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Depending on the distance/ projectile you may be able to punish. I'm not sure of the frame data in this case but it's something worth looking into.

I see your point. It's just that projectiles in this game are quite different from Street Fighter in that they travel farther and are faster. Ryu can't really do much to combat them in Sm4sh since they weren't designed to be easily punished. Best thing to do is do what everyone else does: powershield.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I see your point. It's just that projectiles in this game are quite different from Street Fighter in that they travel farther and are faster. Ryu can't really do much to combat them in Sm4sh since they weren't designed to be easily punished. Best thing to do is do what everyone else does: powershield.

Like I said it depends on the projectile. However, things like aura sphere shadow ball and samus's charge shot should be able to be focused through. Same with bombs and pacman's fruit and hydrant. Then there's custom projectiles that I'm not really sure about. Even some characters long range pokes he should be able to focus through like a zair or something of the sort.

It's going to be on tge ryu to yse focus properly but he should get some good benefits from it. Just writing it off seems weird.

The way I see focus is that's it's an extra defensive option that no one else has. Which also increases his mobility greatly. It's easy to write ryu off because we haven't seen a character like him before in smash. However, I believe that juggling ryu is going to be very difficult for characters without multi hit aerials and trapping is landing isn't going to be very effective.

I could be overblowing how good focus is but I think it's an extremely vital tool to ryu.

 

[Zelder]

Focus is the best thing in the world, it's so versatile.

Also it's funny to me that Lucas has 4 kill throws.

 

[mimgrim]

Focus attack is gonna be Ryu's main tool in his meta, I think. The ability to change direction and momentum in the air as well as getting hit/kill confirms from it will be key. Both opponents and users will have to learn how this works because one wrong move from either side can be fatal.

I've said this somewhere else in the Ryu section but I guess I need to say it again.

While Focus Attack is a really good tool, it is also being highly overrated. You can't cancel the animation immediately upon start-up still leaving you susceptible to grabs and multi-hit moves. And the attack itself is rather obvious and easy to avoid really. Don't get me wrong now, it is going to be a useful tool, but maaaaan is it also being overrated like all freaking hell. It is going to be a good and useful tool for Ryu but it is not going to be his main tool, that is going to be True Dragon Punch as it is his most reliable kill option and the best punish move in the whole game.

Hey, quick question here. I don't know a lot about how Ryu works but understand that you can cancel many of his attacks into others. I know how Focus Attack cancels but I am not sure if others (like his tilts) do, or if they just have really early IASA frames. Any clarification would be nice.

cr.lk, cr.mk, cl.lp, and cl.hp can all "true" cancel, or Negative Edge, into his Specials. st.lp can true combo into Dragon Punch but I'm quite sure it doesn't have the Negative Edge quality of the moves I mentioned.

And for those who don't understand what I'm saying, in regard to his moves, here; http://smashboards.com/threads/terminology-reference-list.406955/

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

@ mimgrim keep in mind focus is Air ok which severly limits the oh I can just grab hin aspect. The move is some thing that can be punished. However, it also pretty good.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I don't think you get much from focusing a projectile other than damage. It's not like SF4 where you can just do it and not worry too much about taking damage since you can actually punish the user. Then again, I'm not sure how helpful it is in Sm4sh since I haven't faced a Ryu who focuses them.

I dont think its very useful to focus them. I'd rather use a normal to clank with a fireball then to focus it through it. Its not like in SF4 where you can focus and you have recoverable health. Here you just take the damage.

 

[Nobie]

Edit: I read Ryu as Roy... At least Lucas isn't called Rucas... Carry on everyone...

Jab's frame 5, Utilt's frame 6, and Dtilt's frame 7. Also, Indy confirmed that Blazer only has super armor when used on the ground unlike Marth and Lucina's Dolphin Slash and Ike's Aether who are invincible or have super armor whenever. So, if Roy's off stage and recovering, go behind him and snap his spine.

In Japanese Lucas's name is written as "Ryuka"

 

[Locke 06]

cr.lk, cr.mk, cl.lp, and cl.hp can all "true" cancel, or Negative Edge, into his Specials. st.lp can true combo into Dragon Punch but I'm quite sure it doesn't have the Negative Edge quality of the moves I mentioned.

And for those who don't understand what I'm saying, in regard to his moves, here; http://smashboards.com/threads/terminology-reference-list.406955/

By "true" cancel, does that mean frame 1 after the hitlag?

For instance, if you did cr.mk>True SRK, does the invincibility start right after the hitlag ends?

Also, focusing projectiles can be better than shielding because you suffer no shield knockback. The ability to move forward instantly after it allows it to be better than a perfect shield (where you cannot interrupt your shield drop frames with a dash or walk). For someone who has such great reward on a hit confirm, taking 1/2 damage from something like Luigi's fireball is a fine trade to get in for a cr.lk>stuff.

But I agree that Focus Attack and FADC is being overrated. If people think FADC is a cool movement trick, they should look at Sheik's infinitely better movement trick. (FADC still has its uses, but as a mindgame it's not better than needle cancels).

http://gfycat.com/MediumSmallIbadanmalimbe
http://gfycat.com/SkeletalSpotlessBelugawhale

On the topic of Sheik, M2K just lost GF against the consensus best player in the Northwest (Cacogen, no youtube link yet) who plays Sheik (also got sent to losers by him earlier). What is interesting about it -other than the fact that it gives the WA scene some credibility- is that he started as Brawler and then went Charizard. And then they went to Duck Hunt. And the whole time I hoped he would stay away from the tree.

And it went as expected, Charizard lost, but the matchup is now incredibly scary. King of trades with super armor, lives forever, giant grab range, kill throw with rage. Charizard is still incredibly linear, but flame thrower is still amazing and Sheik still has trouble killing. With the amount of stages legal where Charizard's up throw will kill at fradulent %'s with rage (T&C, Halberd, Duck Hunt in particular), this might be a matchup worth exploring. Could Charizard be a bad matchup for Sheik? If Charizard reads needle, could he flare blitz and connect? If it doesn't connect, does Sheik have a jab lock combo for when Charizard flops on the ground afterwards?

Just some thoughts.

 

[mimgrim]

By "true" I meant that it actually canceles the move into a Special on hit. Rather then just them being a fast move.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Wow, been labbing Roy for like a week straight and can tell you that he is legit......because of his learning curve. Roy actually does fine in racking up damage, but his bane to his gameplay is when he is put ina situation where he has to kill. While he has moves that can kill and the mobility to hunt someone down, the very fact that everything has to be extremely close and that he has to commit to every kill option (yes even utilt) leaves him open. The overall range he has is also quite baffling leading for people having to be a your hip where none of your moves (except for sweetspot fsmash on shielded opponent that goes in for a grab afterwards) are safe or can even space (guess that was point of his design). His air game is laughable at best also (no invincibility on his up b). At least nair and uair can combo like all mighty. FF sweet/sourspot uair catches sidesteps and combos exceptionally well into great followups.

Otherwise, Roy's simple gameplan does make him high tier to many people now, but like how DK was in Brawl, the amount of reads/commitment and overall leaves him in middling tier (assuming there are no drastic nerfs/buffs given his way).

I may be late, but it's sure better than never.

 

[Yonder]

They're all viable (except Mewtwo oh jesus gawdddd)

Imo, Mewtwo is better than Lucas if this refers to all DLc thus far.He's an interesting mid tier case, like Game and Watch. Like Game and Watch, he plays on radicals a lot. He has great kill power in the form of u throw, shadow ball [one of the better projectiles in the game], fair, and up smash. You have to play smart with Mewtwo, use that fantastic, long tail to your advantage. Funny with Mewtwo, he has a lot of great moves. Dash attack is nothing short of amazing, d tilt, confusion is a great mind tool/set up for jab. Having a reflector and a strong projectile means he doesn't really have to approach. Mewtwo thrives in matches like swordies, and those who don't completely out speed him. The matchups where he can be more patient anyways. Yeah, he's light to a sickening degree but people usually knock on him for that one quality usually. His hitboxes are a hit wonky and lacks amazing combo ability too. But I think he's...I hate saying this cause everyone else has said this about every character in the game bar Zelda at one point "underrated". But it's true, I think he's somewhere in the middle of the mid tier. He gets rocked hard in some matchups, particularily characters that are faster overall and can rush him down [Don't even think about Fox], but he's viable...as a pocket mostly. Fox is really his only unwinnable. Again, I think he's better than Lucas, still Lucina, Robin, Zelda, to name a few. Hard to prove myself since only Trela has done well in a single event with him, but I have been using him as a dedicated secondary so who knows? Oh, I think he actually does close to even with Ryu, that has to count for something. I just know this guy is now "bottom 5 or trash" as I see quite a bit. And I won't be shrugged off so easily, I stood up for Luigi back when people called him the worst day 1, looks like I was right when I said he was viable...and more than that.

 

[Kofu]

How fast does Sheik have to input shield in order to Needle cancel? ROB's Gyro cancel is still in the game but it requires frame-perfect precision.

 

[C0rvus]

Imo, Mewtwo is better than Lucas if this refers to all DLc thus far.He's an interesting mid tier case, like Game and Watch. Like Game and Watch, he plays on radicals a lot. He has great kill power in the form of u throw, shadow ball [one of the better projectiles in the game], fair, and up smash. You have to play smart with Mewtwo, use that fantastic, long tail to your advantage. Funny with Mewtwo, he has a lot of great moves. Dash attack is nothing short of amazing, d tilt, confusion is a great mind tool/set up for jab. Having a reflector and a strong projectile means he doesn't really have to approach. Mewtwo thrives in matches like swordies, and those who don't completely out speed him. The matchups where he can be more patient anyways. Yeah, he's light to a sickening degree but people usually knock on him for that one quality usually. His hitboxes are a hit wonky and lacks amazing combo ability too. But I think he's...I hate saying this cause everyone else has said this about every character in the game bar Zelda at one point "underrated". But it's true, I think he's somewhere in the middle of the mid tier. He gets rocked hard in some matchups, particularily characters that are faster overall and can rush him down [Don't even think about Fox], but he's viable...as a pocket mostly. Fox is really his only unwinnable. Again, I think he's better than Lucas, still Lucina, Robin, Zelda, to name a few. Hard to prove myself since only Trela has done well in a single event with him, but I have been using him as a dedicated secondary so who knows? Oh, I think he actually does close to even with Ryu, that has to count for something. I just know this guy is now "bottom 5 or trash" as I see quite a bit. And I won't be shrugged off so easily, I stood up for Luigi back when people called him the worst day 1, looks like I was right when I said he was viable...and more than that.

My opinion on Mewtwo has always been similar. He is likely mid-tier due to his mostly even matchup spread. Mewtwo is similar to Ganondorf, in that he is almost never out of the game. Big damage and kill power on Shadow Ball, Up Throw kills. He also has some of the best offstage game in the cast imo. Big, sweeping disjoints and a nair to drag people down. His rising aerials open up a bunch of new options offtstage as well. Rising dair seems especially potent. Edge cancelled Teleport is cool but seems too niche to be useful. Just in general he has decent matchups except against folks like Fox and Falcon. His weight gets picked on a lot, and it is his biggest weakness, but imagine him around Mario's weight? He'd be Ganon with neutral game and good recovery. Broken.

 

[DanGR]

I don't think characters designated to mid-tier should have such horrible matchup spreads against the top-tiers. "X is mid-tier, but loses -horribly- against fast characters (most of top/high tier)." In my mind, that's probably a bottom tier character then because their impact on the meta is hardly noticeable. X's matchups with high tiers are important, but much, much less so than the matchups with the characters on the front line, so to speak.

 

[C0rvus]

I don't think characters designated to mid-tier should have such horrible matchup spreads against the top-tiers. "X is mid-tier, but loses -horribly- against fast characters (most of top/high tier)." In my mind, that's probably a bottom tier character then because their impact on the meta is hardly noticeable. X's matchups with high tiers are important, but much, much less so than the matchups with the characters on the front line, so to speak.

That's fair, I suppose. Perhaps it does make him a bottom tier character. Just means you can't sleep on him, I guess. If Mewtwo is a bottom tier character in this game, I think that reflects well on the balance of the game overall. He's a decently strong character. But yeah, if he's losing to the relevant characters, he will probably never see much success in the meta.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't think characters designated to mid-tier should have such horrible matchup spreads against the top-tiers. "X is mid-tier, but loses -horribly- against fast characters (most of top/high tier)." In my mind, that's probably a bottom tier character then because their impact on the meta is hardly noticeable. X's matchups with high tiers are important, but much, much less so than the matchups with the characters on the front line, so to speak.

Basically this. I think Mewtwo struggles in a lot of really critical areas that the other DLC chars don't. All of his good points are VERY good but his weight makes some of his best selling points incredibly hard to like, totally justify.

- Explosive kill moves
- An amazing kill throw

Mewtwo struggles with fast characters of any kind and unfortunately those tend to populate the top/high tier and even the "just viable" tier. It doesn't help that he dies to a pencil drop because he's the 2nd lightest in the game (which is likely why he loses these to the extent he does, NO room for error.)

 

[FullMoon]

It probably doesn't help Mewtwo's case that Lucas has amazing kill throws and very powerful kill moves while also being smaller and heavier while the trade-off is basically less range and a worse grab which are some rather big problems admittedly.

 

[Nocally]

. His air game is laughable at best also (no invincibility on his up b).


I may be late, but it's sure better than never.

doesn't Roy have invincibility on his grounded up-B?

 

[BiRdZ]

I always see people say that a character has something going for them, but loses to high/top tier, then says that they're mid tier. What exactly is mid tier in this game? It seems if you aren't top/high tier, your mid, but despite the great balancing of this game, some characters are worse than others. So can someone explain to me what exactly is a mid tier character in this game?

 

[TriTails]

'Mewtwo suffers from fast characters'

: Not me.

 

[Man Li Gi]

doesn't Roy have invincibility on his grounded up-B?

He has Super armor from frame 4-11 only on the ground. In other words, he's open off stage.

 

[Browny]

I have a dream that my favourite smash characters will one day be discussed in a forum where they will not be judged by the value of their weight but by the power of their moveset.

Its... nauseating.

Consider say for example, Mario vs Lucas. Mario is probably going to take about 11 hits to get Lucas to KO %. In the case of Mario vs Mewtwo, instead of 11 to KO its now 10.

Sweet, merciful pasta-based god... A whopping single aerial attack per stock difference.

Its not a case of 'Mewtwo has no room for error' because he is so light, it is actually 'Mewtwo has to try and avoid getting hit 1 more time per stock than other middleweights'. 2 in the case of him being against heavy hitters like bowser etc.

When you look at it that way, suddenly its not so OMG AWFUL. You see the game for what it truly is, its just numbers. Dying 10% earlier every stock isnt some dramatic death sentence. Fox is pretty damn light too, no one complains.

I know Mewtwo has his issues with his size/weight ratio being the worst in the game, but his weight overall, isnt that bad with his sheer damage output to make up for it. Considering that his shadow ball does 26%, dying 10% earlier per stock doesnt seem so bad when you only have to hit the enemy 8 times to get them to KO % while they have to hit you 10 times.

Think about that instead.

 

[Thinkaman]

To play devil's advocate, Mewtwo has a problematic weight, fall speed + mobility, and size/weight. The bad news is, these flaws multiply each other.

It's not just that it takes 8 hits instead of 10 to kill him; it's that each of those hits are also twice as easy to get. It's okay to be as big and floaty as Bowser, and it's okay to be as low weight as Pikachu or G&W, but both? Unless you get Luma as compensation, uh oh.

Mewtwo has some really strong strengths, including a Ganon-level ability to make people die--this means you kill them in only a few hits as well. But you also have other weaknesses, like his limited OoS game.


I agree that people really need to get over Mewtwo's weight; it didn't stop Rosalina from being a top character, and most the good characters are somewhat light. But I do think he's bottom 5 atm.

 

[TriTails]

Fun Fact: Every #1s of every Smash game to date are light.

Lemme count light top tiers in this game:
- Rosalina
- Pikachu
- ZSS
- Fox
- Sheik (Kind of..?)

Though. Mewtwo's lightness is a bit off the charts. Not only he is even lighter than a 2D and any of these characters, but he is floaty and tall as well. His weight itself doesn't prevent him from being good, it's his some more other stats that holds him back.

But personally, while I do think Mewtwo's weight is quite a minus, simply being light doesn't mean you can't be good.

 

[shadowmm151]

Okay so after a week of testing here are my thoughts.

: I just can't play this guy. He just plays so differently from Ness...tbh I think that might be my problem with him too. On a side note he wrecks in 8 player smash lol.

: Solid character. If not for Ike's buffs this patch (and Marth's to an extent) Roy would be the best FE character by a wide margin. Biggest problem is the hype surrounding him. People see all the positives right now, but eventually I think we'll all settle down and see he's solid, but not "OP."

: Definitely not a beginner's character. This guy is for advanced smash veterans. He takes a lot of work to figure out his moveset and even then you'll still barely scratch the surface. I can foresee a good future for Ryu, but it's not in the near future as far as I'm concerned.

On a side note: Is anyone finding Ryu's command inputs as a hindrance while playing him? Sometimes I'll fastfall into a fair and accidentally hadoken...or fastfall into a bair and tatsumaki off the stage...
It could be just me, but I really feel that while the command inputs were a nice touch (I sure appreciated them and loved thinking about the time I first got into SF2 back in the day) that they might become a burden at some point.

Thoughts?

 

[PUK]

is spam to win: the character. More than anyone else.

 

[Yikarur]

Ryu will probably be Top5 of the game at some point.

 

[outfoxd]

is spam to win: the character. More than anyone else.

I'm not getting that in my experience. I'm finding a more measured, patient approach working better for me because of the sheer number of unsafe moves he has. I may be off base but a lot of my play with him so far us drawing out bad options and counterpunching (Swording)?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I have a dream that my favourite smash characters will one day be discussed in a forum where they will not be judged by the value of their weight but by the power of their moveset.

Its... nauseating.

Consider say for example, Mario vs Lucas. Mario is probably going to take about 11 hits to get Lucas to KO %. In the case of Mario vs Mewtwo, instead of 11 to KO its now 10.

Sweet, merciful pasta-based god... A whopping single aerial attack per stock difference.

Its not a case of 'Mewtwo has no room for error' because he is so light, it is actually 'Mewtwo has to try and avoid getting hit 1 more time per stock than other middleweights'. 2 in the case of him being against heavy hitters like bowser etc.

When you look at it that way, suddenly its not so OMG AWFUL. You see the game for what it truly is, its just numbers. Dying 10% earlier every stock isnt some dramatic death sentence. Fox is pretty damn light too, no one complains.

I know Mewtwo has his issues with his size/weight ratio being the worst in the game, but his weight overall, isnt that bad with his sheer damage output to make up for it. Considering that his shadow ball does 26%, dying 10% earlier per stock doesnt seem so bad when you only have to hit the enemy 8 times to get them to KO % while they have to hit you 10 times.

Think about that instead.

The game is numbers, so then simplify the equation?
If say 100 weight was 100 health and 80 weight was 80 health. Then if two characters have everything else equal but weight and do 20 damage per hit... The difference is only one hit, but in math the character with 80 weight dies first.
Now all things aren't equal and players aren't binary enough to cause equal exchanges of hits either but I would think that particularly relevant. If all else is equal, the person with lower weight loses.

Which is partially why in general our Light weight characters in Smash all are strong damage dealers whether through singular hits or combos, and typically have potent recoveries or small hitboxes to empower them for being Light.

The weight is no less significant whether someone says 1 hit or more. The Weight is less significant given other factors at play such as on-hit reward, probability of success, favourable trades, recovery potency.

A character is a sum of all their attributes, obviously if your weight is low you need your numbers to be 'higher' elsewhere. Just as if your frames or movement speed are slow you need to be stronger in something else.

If anything I rather people didn't dismiss weight, if anything its not mentioned enough and only brought up when dealing with characters at the extremes, the super light and the super heavy. Its a characteristic like any other, and intrinsically worth mentioning, just like a poor recovery, slow frames, etc. None of them stop you from being a good character if everything else is strong.

 

[Mario766]

Lightweights have a general advantage in Smash

Less weight means taking less combos due to being sent too far, and they usually have strong combo games or solid damage racking anyways. The only drawback of a lightweight is you take less percent to be sent flying. It's generally a positive to not be combo food compared to being super hard to kill due to weight.

 

[Angry Guy of DE]

Mewtwo's issues are that some of his really important moves are just a little too slow or don't have the hitbox it really should have. His U-tilt and U-air have dead spots that really shouldn't exist where the opponent just goes through it. His weight in Melee was not great, but with throws being viable kills in this game it is very apparent when it takes upwards of 130-140% before rage to kill with U-throw but then Mewtwo can die in the early 100%'s depending on the character.

Rage makes this even worse when Mewtwo can die even earlier and aside from U-throw some kill moves are very unsafe to use or are difficult to end with at higher %'s. Mewtwo is very light but also has a tall hitbox, not the best combination no matter how you look at it.

If Mewtwo's U-throw could kill in the 120% range and D-throw being more viable to get follow-up with getting the kill would be easier.