Character Competitive Impressions

[bc1910]

On another subject. What meteor move you guys think is the best? Not only counting power, but other uses as well (Luigi's D-air, while isn't particularly powerful, combos into his kill aerials when the foe fails to tech. It also has very little startup for a meteor (F10) and has almost no end lag).

Methinks Luigi's D-air would be one of the best if it weren't for the fact that the meteor hitbox is so awkward and it only meteors in the air. Falcon's U-tilt would also be a candidate (I'd put it straight to the best if it weren't for the fact it meteors only on airbone opponents. It's still gud tho), and Ganon's D-air gets a mention simply on how big the hitbox is and it can kill under 10%.

I think Falcon's Utilt is a candidate but for me it falls down for being difficult to hit with, like even more difficult than your typical meteor because it requires Falcon to stay on the ground and the opponent knows exactly where the hitbox is going to be. It is extremely safe though, probably the safest meteor in the game to just throw out at the ledge, so it's still up there.

Luigi's is really good, as you said it's fast and can be combo'd into. It's only weakness is being an iffy raw meteor due to the precise hitbox.

Ganon's is... probably the best. Crazy power, big hitbox, easy to hit with, can be risky to miss with but Ganon's vertical recovery is fine if they don't try to counterattack.

Shoutouts to Diddy's meteor, which is also quite easy to hit with and even the sourspot spikes.

 

[Radical Larry]

First off, has anyone seen those Pac-Man trampoline glitches lately? The ones where characters fall off stage? If so, it'll be impractical to use in tournaments thanks to ranged characters and great punishing by opponents.

Secondly, Link's meteor seems to be a bit better after the patch, but Ganondorf's meteors are probably the best, off stage and on stage. WizKick aerial has some weird properties when the opponent "V" DI's, because the opponent will actually go into a V shape before surviving or KO'ing; otherwise, the opponent's gonna get shot straight back up from the stage; or if the meteor hitbox misses, you always have that pure upwards reverse-spike to hit.

With D-Air, it's great to use off stage, and when the opponent is under, I'd prefer using FFB catch them off guard with the D-Air. The D-Air will come out so fast thanks to fast falling, it has a high chance to hit the opponent. Just make sure you have that second jump with you.

But customs on, Link's meteor bombs win hands down. A meteor attack with high range and capability to be used twice quickly? Well, that has a lot of potential and remains broken if your opponent tries recovering from under. Think of it like a sort of footstooling thing.

 

[Luigi player]

Top 10 killing throws as of 1.0.8 (not accounting for rage, DI, or stage position):

BThrow
UThrow
UThrow
UThrow
UThrow
BThrow
UThrow
UThrow
UThrow/ BThrow (tied)

Taken from here.

Oh was that shameless self promotion I guess it was

And now let's look at these with DI:

(KO % on Mario in training mode from the middle of Omega BF, with DI)

Mewtwo U 135 (DI left or right)
Ness B 136 (DI left/right against the throw + a little bit down and doublejump)
Lucas U 147 (DI left or right)
Olimar[blue] U 152 (DI away and a little bit down)
Charizard U 159 (DI down and away)
ROB U 162 (DI away and a little bit down)
Link U 166 (DI left or right)
Greninja U 168 (DI behind Greninja)
Villager B 169 (DI left/right against the throw + a little bit down and doublejump)
Toon Link B 183 (DI left/right against the throw + a bit down and doublejump)

Now if you want to compare Charizards uthrow to the others on a stage with platforms... (let's take Dreamland 64)

Mewtwo (on the ground/main platform): 135
Charizard (goes up to the top platform with his uthrow): 124 (without DI: 95)

So yeah, Charizard with a high up top platform (BF/Miiverse, DL64, some transformations on Delfino, ...) is stronger than Mewtwos.


(don't forget rage in all of this, and if the move is still fresh it could KO even earlier)

Charizard can also live longer than Mewtwo because of his weight. So he can build up more rage and have a longer time with it to try to get the throw.

These are the advantages for Charizard, but people make it seem like much bigger of a deal than it actually is... just remember that you can DI it to shut it down big time. It's still a crazy kill option with high up platforms though (and even without it's a strong killthrow of course).

 

[Luco]

Hey guys, I've been away for the week and I'll be getting the patch and the DLC characters in a couple of days, but wondering how people's opinions are of the three musketeers DLC chars that aren't day 1 opinions? I've heard a bit of talk that is very possibly top tier, is the best FE character likely sitting around upper mid/lower high and is by far the worst of the three with poor neutral options and plenty of nerfs on his best moves (is Dair really the train wreck I've been hearing? ;_; ).

It should be mentioned by the way that Lucas has always had strong throws, the only new thing about it is that Dthrow combos into more than just Utilt now.

Of course you'll still see me using Lucas, but if it's true that he's a lot worse then I'll be quite sad (Oh well YAY PATCHES). And how are his ATs now? Is zap jump still in? Magnet pull?

 

[Smog Frog]

Hey guys, I've been away for the week and I'll be getting the patch and the DLC characters in a couple of days, but wondering how people's opinions are of the three musketeers DLC chars that aren't day 1 opinions? I've heard a bit of talk that is very possibly top tier, is the best FE character likely sitting around upper mid/lower high and is by far the worst of the three with poor neutral options and plenty of nerfs on his best moves (is Dair really the train wreck I've been hearing? ;_; ).

It should be mentioned by the way that Lucas has always had strong throws, the only new thing about it is that Dthrow combos into more than just Utilt now.

Of course you'll still see me using Lucas, but if it's true that he's a lot worse then I'll be quite sad (Oh well YAY PATCHES). And how are his ATs now? Is zap jump still in? Magnet pull?

i wouldnt say is BY FAR the worst. i mean, he IS the worst(but not as bad as people have been saying)but and were super hyped because OMG SURPRISE DLC ANNOUNCED DAY 1 OF OTHER EXPECTED DLC LAUNCH. dont get me wrong, and are good, but realistically is high tier(top tier in potential, i wouldnt be surprised to see him there once he finds a truly great player which he has none atm) and ...actually has competition for the best FE character. and buffs(AGAIN?!?!?!) put them up there as valid competitors. probably wins out overall, but probably loses slightly in the matchup. , , and all strike me as solid upper mid characters( probably low high tier once he finds a great player, and already have great players)

now ? i think he's hanging on the edge of viable, reminiscent imo of stuff like 1.0.6 (pls dont smack me @Emblem Lord ). his neutral options arent exactly poor, just limited(zair and sh pk fire, while good, only carry you so far). dair...i still dont know what to make of it. it still does the most damage of all his aerials should the hits connect(though, its 15% down from 20% in brawl) and the hits seem...position based. fh dair is something i've seen pfresh use(it acs and the last combo starter hit comes out before he lands). its startup was nerfed to 10f instead of 4f. it can still be used in locks(although in the 0-death lock its used as the jab reset out of the footstool).
tl;dr and are on a hype train which currently seems to be unloading and isnt as bad as you think he is.

and most advanced tech for dont seem to apply to . wavebounce seems to be the only one still in.






disclaimer: this is an early morning post so i may not be thinking as clearly as i want lol

 

[Luigi player]

Hey guys, I've been away for the week and I'll be getting the patch and the DLC characters in a couple of days, but wondering how people's opinions are of the three musketeers DLC chars that aren't day 1 opinions? I've heard a bit of talk that is very possibly top tier, is the best FE character likely sitting around upper mid/lower high and is by far the worst of the three with poor neutral options and plenty of nerfs on his best moves (is Dair really the train wreck I've been hearing? ;_; ).

It should be mentioned by the way that Lucas has always had strong throws, the only new thing about it is that Dthrow combos into more than just Utilt now.

Of course you'll still see me using Lucas, but if it's true that he's a lot worse then I'll be quite sad (Oh well YAY PATCHES). And how are his ATs now? Is zap jump still in? Magnet pull?

Zap jump will just be him jumping as high as his doublejump normally goes while using PKFire.
Magnet Pull stuff doesn't work. If you use it after a PKFires backwards boost you'll be moving slower now. (I hope this is what Magnet Pulling is)
I don't think Lucas is that bad. His zair opens up new options which is good. His uair is sadly disappointing and his really laggy grabs are bad for him as well. For now I'd put him as a good Low- or low Mid Tier. His aerials are just a tiny bit unreliable imo and none of them autocancel. Combined with a slow and really laggy grab this gives him a little hard time to punish or get the opponent off. It sems a little similar to Mewtwo, although Lucas can jump away and PKFire which seems reliable, but it's not sure to hit since it can be shielded. Although his fair is quite good. Dair is really hard to hit with and not too rewarding. Fulljump dair onstage doesn't set the opponent up for a lock and it's best use seems to be intimidating or offstage as a nice disjointed spike if your opponent recovers from below.
What's great about Lucas imo are his jab (still great), fsmash (very useful against projectiles and a fast killmove, although it got weaker from Brawl), nice throw followups and great killthrow. As long as you get the grabs you're set, otherwise he'll likely have some problems. I'm sure Lucas could be really dangerous still and like almost all characters be at least somewhat viable. Ness seems overall superior to me though.

Imo Ryu is kinda an open book when talking about his potential... it's really hard to predict where he'll land. He definitely could be really good, but only in the hands of someone who's really dedicatet time with him. Everytime I play him I SD because I use shoryuken or sideB while trying to do aerials... and it's difficult going on actually imo. The best thing about him seems to be shoryuken.

Roy is a little overrated by some, imo. He definitely has the potential to wreck worse players than you because of his great KO potential, but with Marths buff I see them about the same tierlist-position wise.

 

[David Viran]

On another subject. What meteor move you guys think is the best? Not only counting power, but other uses as well (Luigi's D-air, while isn't particularly powerful, combos into his kill aerials when the foe fails to tech. It also has very little startup for a meteor (F10) and has almost no end lag).

Methinks Luigi's D-air would be one of the best if it weren't for the fact that the meteor hitbox is so awkward and it only meteors in the air. Falcon's U-tilt would also be a candidate (I'd put it straight to the best if it weren't for the fact it meteors only on airbone opponents. It's still gud tho), and Ganon's D-air gets a mention simply on how big the hitbox is and it can kill under 10%.

ZSS's flip jump? It counts right because it has two meteors. Can actually be combed into pretty well, get out of jail free card, punishes ledge snap, etc.

 

[warionumbah2]

holy hell I just touched Meta Knight again for the first time after the patch

how is this character not the best in the game now?

*only partial exaggeration*

He's low tier or solid mid tier at best.

 

[deepseadiva]

Can we not write paragraphs and paragraphs with the character icons. They're not the same size as the default text size, so it's not readable.

Like ReAdInG TeXt WrItTeN LiKe ThIs BuT LiKe So MuCh WoRsE

 

[version15]

Oh look, its bc O.o

 

[Blobface]

I think giving Ganondorf a kill throw would make a lot of sense for his design and would be a welcome addition to the character.

He already has a throw that's almost never used (U-throw), so that seems reasonable. Shouldn't be too strong though, maybe killing from 130-160% based on rage?

On another subject. What meteor move you guys think is the best? Not only counting power, but other uses as well (Luigi's D-air, while isn't particularly powerful, combos into his kill aerials when the foe fails to tech. It also has very little startup for a meteor (F10) and has almost no end lag).

Methinks Luigi's D-air would be one of the best if it weren't for the fact that the meteor hitbox is so awkward and it only meteors in the air. Falcon's U-tilt would also be a candidate (I'd put it straight to the best if it weren't for the fact it meteors only on airbone opponents. It's still gud tho), and Ganon's D-air gets a mention simply on how big the hitbox is and it can kill under 10%.

I'd still say Ganon. Ganon's other aerials are really good for forcing air dodges, and Dair beats air dodges.

On a side note, Ganon actually has a legit 0-death combo with Tipman -> footstool -> Wizkick. They need to be right by the ledge of course (the tipman causes a ledge fall), and it whiffs on most smaller characters, but I really just wanted an excuse to say "legit 0-death combo".

 

[wedl!!]

or his linebacker cousin win the best spike contest on merits of their obnoxious hitboxes and ease of use

they already force airdodges really well so reading one near a ledge = death.

honorable mentions go to ,,, and

 

[NachoOfCheese]

On another subject. What meteor move you guys think is the best? Not only counting power, but other uses as well (Luigi's D-air, while isn't particularly powerful, combos into his kill aerials when the foe fails to tech. It also has very little startup for a meteor (F10) and has almost no end lag).

Methinks Luigi's D-air would be one of the best if it weren't for the fact that the meteor hitbox is so awkward and it only meteors in the air. Falcon's U-tilt would also be a candidate (I'd put it straight to the best if it weren't for the fact it meteors only on airbone opponents. It's still gud tho), and Ganon's D-air gets a mention simply on how big the hitbox is and it can kill under 10%.

Easily Kirby's down air for its combo potential and lingering hitboxes. ROB's is really good too because the hitbox is just about the size of Ridley. Ryu's down air is my favorite, however, because he just yells out HYA sends you down diagonally to your doom and iirc the only other move that does something remotely like that is Mario's Fair.

 

[NairWizard]

Shoutouts to @ NickRiddle for taking out his brother ESAM 3-2 and then 3-0 last night. Didn't watch the stream (just heard things from others), but did you use ZSS (I assume it was customs off)? That matchup is closer than people think, but still an uphill battle against someone with faster reaction time--nice job.

(p.s. Master Raven almost beat ESAM, so the trend of Sheiks doing well vs. Pikachus continues; it's probably a favorable matchup for Sheik without customs)

 

[NickRiddle]

Shoutouts to @ NickRiddle for taking out his brother ESAM 3-2 and then 3-0 last night. Didn't watch the stream (just heard things from others), but did you use ZSS (I assume it was customs off)? That matchup is closer than people think, but still an uphill battle against someone with faster reaction time--nice job.

(p.s. Master Raven almost beat ESAM, so the trend of Sheiks doing well vs. Pikachus continues; it's probably a favorable matchup for Sheik without customs)

Unfortunately there were technical issues so there was no stream.
I went all ZSS vs. ESAM.
I think the MU is Pikachu's favor, I just play ESAM all the time note so I'm bound to win a couple of sets eventually.
Thank you for the recognition~

 

[wedl!!]

i don't think that v is that bad, its in 's favor obviously though. they both keep up with each other pretty well, but not having a ton of get off me or oos options hurts.

and both need to edgeguard to get kills in this mu, but since they both have the best recoveries in the game that are nigh-invincible...
sheik gets essentially free horizontal juggles into killconfirms that pika doesn't have in vanilla. 55:45 sheik.
in customs this is completely thrown out the window! pika gets horizontal juggles into kill confirms that kill at obnoxiously early percents (40-50%...), therefore entirely removing the one problem he had in this mu.

 

[|RK|]

And now let's look at these with DI:

(KO % on Mario in training mode from the middle of Omega BF, with DI)

Mewtwo U 135 (DI left or right)
Ness B 136 (DI left/right against the throw + a little bit down and doublejump)
Lucas U 147 (DI left or right)
Olimar[blue] U 152 (DI away and a little bit down)
Charizard U 159 (DI down and away)
ROB U 162 (DI away and a little bit down)
Link U 166 (DI left or right)
Greninja U 168 (DI behind Greninja)
Villager B 169 (DI left/right against the throw + a little bit down and doublejump)
Toon Link B 183 (DI left/right against the throw + a bit down and doublejump)

Now if you want to compare Charizards uthrow to the others on a stage with platforms... (let's take Dreamland 64)

Mewtwo (on the ground/main platform): 135
Charizard (goes up to the top platform with his uthrow): 124 (without DI: 95)

So yeah, Charizard with a high up top platform (BF/Miiverse, DL64, some transformations on Delfino, ...) is stronger than Mewtwos.


(don't forget rage in all of this, and if the move is still fresh it could KO even earlier)

Charizard can also live longer than Mewtwo because of his weight. So he can build up more rage and have a longer time with it to try to get the throw.

These are the advantages for Charizard, but people make it seem like much bigger of a deal than it actually is... just remember that you can DI it to shut it down big time. It's still a crazy kill option with high up platforms though (and even without it's a strong killthrow of course).

Confused - why are you DI-ing up or down at all? I thought that for Smash 4, left or right was the best way.

 

[bc1910]

For moves with diagonal knockback, DI-ing horizontally and slightly down will let you live the longest. DI-ing down still has a noticeable effect in this game vs attacks that are more diagonal than horizontal. It's not massive but it helps you survive a few more percents.

 

[S_B]

He already has a throw that's almost never used (U-throw), so that seems reasonable. Shouldn't be too strong though, maybe killing from 130-160% based on rage?

I dunno. Given that he's basically "Dorfasauras Rex" when it comes to grab range (though not ledge snap range, oddly enough), I'd see zero harm in giving him a "magic based" throw that killed relatively early.

The grab is so hard to land as it is...

 

[Zage]

First off, has anyone seen those Pac-Man trampoline glitches lately? The ones where characters fall off stage? If so, it'll be impractical to use in tournaments thanks to ranged characters and great punishing by opponents.

Knocking someone into a trampoline isn't impractical, and since the trampoline disappears right before it launches you, you're still considered to be hitstun you cannot recover or use your second jump. Its a guaranteed stock.

The trampoline went from being a nuisance to "If I touch it I could die outright".

Characters with a projectile game don't have to approach if they have the lead, though yeah. But there's nothing stopping Pacman from leaving trampolines around the stage and then rushing them down.


IIRC the only way to beat it is if you walk/jump into it, you can use your extra jumps/recovery.

 

[Luigi player]

Confused - why are you DI-ing up or down at all? I thought that for Smash 4, left or right was the best way.

Generally you could say that left/right DI is the best. (in the sense that it's (almost) always helping the most and is the easiest way of using DI)
If you're hit at an angle of 90° upwards you live longer by pressing left/right to change your flight-arc and if you're hit to the sides you "fight" against your thrownspeed by DIing (actually vectoring) against your momentum.

If you're hit diagonally upwards though and you might die off the top (like from the throws) you can still change the arc by DIing down a little. It's not totally down, "a little bit down" was like 345° (-15°) or something like that. For some, like Charizards uthrow you need to DI like ~315° (diagonally down & away). Its hit-angle makes it possible to DI like that.

Most of the backthrows would KO me off the top if I didn't DI a little downwards.

Also, for moves that hit you at ~67° or less you can still vector vertically against them. That's why holding straight down against ZSS' upB makes you fly not too high upwards and is often the best option against it, since it helps you the most against getting hit upwards. But if you could die to the sides as well you might have to switch it up a bit. Like holding down at first and then swtiching to holding only a little down and mostly back to the stage, etc.

 

[Master Raven]

Shoutouts to @ NickRiddle for taking out his brother ESAM 3-2 and then 3-0 last night. Didn't watch the stream (just heard things from others), but did you use ZSS (I assume it was customs off)? That matchup is closer than people think, but still an uphill battle against someone with faster reaction time--nice job.

(p.s. Master Raven almost beat ESAM, so the trend of Sheiks doing well vs. Pikachus continues; it's probably a favorable matchup for Sheik without customs)

I think Pika/Sheik is even...ish.

Sheik has better mobility overall. Pikachu has QAC but we can stuff it with Nair and just about any well timed attack, but Nair is the most reliable since it lingers and the hitbox covers Sheik's whole body. However, Pikachu's punishes hit harder ours. We both have stages that shift the matchup to one or the other's favor. It's a very momentum based matchup.

ESAM and I are both still learning things about the MU, but for the time being we both agree it's simply close. To who's favor, I've yet to be certain.

 

[Nu~]

Knocking someone into a trampoline isn't impractical, and since the trampoline disappears right before it launches you, you're still considered to be hitstun you cannot recover or use your second jump. Its a guaranteed stock.

The trampoline went from being a nuisance to "If I touch it I could die outright".

Characters with a projectile game don't have to approach if they have the lead, though yeah. But there's nothing stopping Pacman from leaving trampolines around the stage and then rushing them down.


IIRC the only way to beat it is if you walk/jump into it, you can use your extra jumps/recovery.

If this isn't patched out, on fire hydrant and item tossed lazy fruit are gonna make this even more stupid

 

[Radical Larry]

Knocking someone into a trampoline isn't impractical, and since the trampoline disappears right before it launches you, you're still considered to be hitstun you cannot recover or use your second jump. Its a guaranteed stock.

The trampoline went from being a nuisance to "If I touch it I could die outright".

Characters with a projectile game don't have to approach if they have the lead, though yeah. But there's nothing stopping Pacman from leaving trampolines around the stage and then rushing them down.


IIRC the only way to beat it is if you walk/jump into it, you can use your extra jumps/recovery.

However, any skilled player might see this coming and attempt to actually end up punishing Pac-Man. Characters who are fast enough can land a free hit on Pac-Man. Plus, it can only really be done on the ground to have the "no clip" effect.

But I really also want to make these this statement clear about Link before I forget:

Link's N-Air needs more use as an edge-guarding tool. It's often overlooked as a potential edge-guarding tool, but it seems to out-prioritize many opponents' attacks. Ryu has the biggest problems with this, as I only know four attacks of his that won't be affected by Link's N-Air: F-Air, F-Smash, Focus Attack and the multi-hit Hadouken.

If this isn't patched out, on fire hydrant and item tossed lazy fruit are gonna make this even more stupid

Well, again, you'd have to really use it on the stage for any sort of true effect, and your opponent must have a bad recovery. Plus, you'd need to use it in the middle of the stage if you want other opponents to suffer. Sorry Little Mac, you're screwed.

 

[Nu~]

However, any skilled player might see this coming and attempt to actually end up punishing Pac-Man. Characters who are fast enough can land a free hit on Pac-Man. Plus, it can only really be done on the ground to have the "no clip" effect.

But I really also want to make these this statement clear about Link before I forget:

Link's N-Air needs more use as an edge-guarding tool. It's often overlooked as a potential edge-guarding tool, but it seems to out-prioritize many opponents' attacks. Ryu has the biggest problems with this, as I only know four attacks of his that won't be affected by Link's N-Air: F-Air, F-Smash, Focus Attack and the multi-hit Hadouken.



Well, again, you'd have to really use it on the stage for any sort of true effect, and your opponent must have a bad recovery. Plus, you'd need to use it in the middle of the stage if you want other opponents to suffer. Sorry Little Mac, you're screwed.

How can Pac-Man be punished for this if all he has to do is knock you into it. If I ftilt you into the trampoline, there is no way you can punish me. It doesn't matter if they can see it coming because we don't use Up B again until the opponent is knocked into the trampoline.

Also, you don't have to have a bad recovery. Not many chars have the versatility in their recovery to travel both horizontally and vertically fast enough to come back (especially when their second jump is missing)

The only characters I know that can recover from this are Pac-Man and Villager. It may be a little bit stage dependent, but I know that not even greninja can make it back when he falls through a trampoline located near the ledge (Abadanago showed this in his vine)

 

[Ulevo]

How can Pac-Man be punished for this if all he has to do is knock you into it. If I ftilt you into the trampoline, there is no way you can punish me. It doesn't matter if they can see it coming because we don't use Up B again until the opponent is knocked into the trampoline.

Also, you don't have to have a bad recovery. Not many chars have the versatility in their recovery to travel both horizontally and vertically fast enough to come back (especially when their second jump is missing)

The only characters I know that can recover from this are Pac-Man and Villager. It may be a little bit stage dependent, but I know that not even greninja can make it back when he falls through a trampoline located near the ledge (Abadanago showed this in his vine)

Meta Knight could probably recover.

Let me ask you, since I do not know how this glitch functions under normal circumstances. Is this something worth banning for CEO/EVO? Could we conceivably have a high level Pac-Man abuse this glitch to get top results? From the vines, it looks easy to use and abuse, but I do not want to assume.

 

[Nu~]

Meta Knight could probably recover.

Let me ask you, since I do not know how this glitch functions under normal circumstances. Is this something worth banning for CEO/EVO? Could we conceivably have a high level Pac-Man abuse this glitch to get top results? From the vines, it looks easy to use and abuse, but I do not want to assume.

Well it forces the opponent to respect Pac-Man's CQC more when a trampoline is out, and it makes ground based opponents much less safe.

Doesn't sound too broken to me. The only character it seems to truly invalidate is little Mac, who already loses to trampoline shenanigans.
As long as trip sprouts, needles, and other crazy ground disruption is legal, I think it's fine.

But obviously, I'm biased.

 

[PUK]

i hope and bet it will be patched before EVO.
Is CEO the thing in a week?

 

[Zage]

However, any skilled player might see this coming and attempt to actually end up punishing Pac-Man. Characters who are fast enough can land a free hit on Pac-Man. Plus, it can only really be done on the ground to have the "no clip" effect.

Its literally impossible for any character in the cast punish Pac-Man for this unless we're turning equipment and items on.

 

[Gunla]

i hope and bet it will be patched before EVO.
Is CEO the thing in a week?

CEO will start in 6 days; I doubt they'd patch it before then. The Mewtwo glitches took about a week or so to get fixed, and even then, CEO would need to make sure each setup has the new patch.

If the glitch can be abused rather easily, I could see a patch or rulechange being placed to counteract it.

 

[bc1910]

I've just seen the Pacman glitch and anyone with a half decent recovery will be able to make it back if they have their double jump. If they don't though, most of the cast is screwed. Clearly needs to be patched out cause it's just stupid and not hard to set up really.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I've just seen the Pacman glitch and anyone with a half decent recovery will be able to make it back if they have their double jump. If they don't though, most of the cast is screwed. Clearly needs to be patched out cause it's just stupid and not hard to set up really.

Yo if it's this bad should it even be allowed? Seems like....really weird territory.

Of course it's funny the first few times.

 

[Radical Larry]

Its literally impossible for any character in the cast punish Pac-Man for this unless we're turning equipment and items on.

Seeing as you need extremely precise timing for it to work, and you still need to get your opponent there. The problem is Pac-Man's frame data and the fact of DI and placement of the trampoline; you can only have one place to put it, directly on the ground. Anywhere else and it won't work. Then you have characters with projectiles who will be happy to see a small gap between them and Pac-Man and go along starting to use their projectile game.

The characters who can really actually punish are ones who can perform punish aerials, projectiles and can get to the opposite side. Remember, it'll be very hard for Pac Man to actually really pull this off against a highly skilled player. You have to think of the things that can make this obsolete. Remember how the "Samus Infinite" was debunked months back?

While this isn't on the level of that, this doesn't seem to be really that much exploitable, and is even punishable by opponents if they know what will happen and go ahead to punish.

@ Nu~ But if you F-Tilt me, to the trampoline, I'd get out in time before you could perform another trampoline. Pac-Man can be punished for trying to use this against projectile characters.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yo if it's this bad should it even be allowed? Seems like....really weird territory.

Of course it's funny the first few times.

Probably put in a "If you use this glitch, you lose that game" rule. Its not as easy to make it back as people would like to think. Sure if you're Kirby or MK you just laugh it off. But on stages not named Smashville or Milverse, a lot of characters are simply screwed due to the distance they drop.

 

[Nu~]

@ Nu~ But if you F-Tilt me, to the trampoline, I'd get out in time before you could perform another trampoline. Pac-Man can be punished for trying to use this against projectile characters.

You can't always bank on this. Why should it matter if you have a projectile? You are being flung, while in hitstun, to the trampoline. I don't care how "skilled" you are, you can't break hitstun. If you get blown into the trampoline, you die.

 

[Smog Frog]

can i have a link to this new tech?

 

[Quickhero]

can i have a link to this new tech?

It's on the main page, man.
http://smashboards.com/threads/new-glitch-discovered-pac-man-trampoline-stage-drop.407114/

 

[FullMoon]

I was experimenting with that glitch just now with some help from my sister.

While you're still inside the stage you can still pull out your recovery move and come out from the inside of it.

So if you react quickly to it you can escape from it pretty easily unless you're like, Little Mac.

It's a lot more dangerous in stages that are slim like Smashviller and Omega Halberd though, but it's worth noting. In those stages it shouldn't be too hard to recover as long as you have your double jump though.

 

[Nu~]

I was experimenting with that glitch just now with some help from my sister.

While you're still inside the stage you can still pull out your recovery move and come out from the inside of it.

So if you react quickly to it you can escape from it pretty easily unless you're like, Little Mac.

It's a lot more dangerous in stages that are slim like Smashviller and Omega Halberd though, but it's worth noting. In those stages it shouldn't be too hard to recover as long as you have your double jump though.

And then we can punish your landing.
So not broken, but still beneficial.

 

[FullMoon]

And then we can punish your landing.
So not broken, but still beneficial.

Depends on the character. Greninja could just come out and aim for the ledge or use one of Hydro Pump's sprays to push Pac away from him so he can land safely, Sheik's vanish is pretty hard to punish due to the reappearing windbox, Peach could just float inside the stage and come out near the ledge, etc.

Oh and I guess recovering from within the stage is not an option for Ness/Lucas since PK Thunder is likely going to hit a wall.