Character Competitive Impressions

[FullMoon]

Well, good thing Substitute isn't affected by this.

 

[Nysyr]

I'm sorry to falcon mains, but the way UAir was prepatch was absolutely not okay. The amount of pressure and safety it had, often forcing air dodges which falcon could easily punish while also being a kill and insane damage racking option were absolutely stupid.

Now we can actually take the option of just taking the hit rather than air dodging into a knee or meteor.

 

[Pyr]

Ridiculous as people may think that is, I like that they made Shoryuken feel like a Shoryuken in this game. And yay for matchup-specific things!

Also, Ryu Perfect Shield OP:

http://giant.gfycat.com/CookedMassiveGoldeneye.gif

 

[bc1910]

The Falcon Uair nerf does make sense, 13% was pretty hilarious. It's just weird how Falcon was hit before Pikachu, Rosalina and others who are better than him.

 

[thehard]

Rosalina has already been nerfed a ton and hardly anyone uses Pika might be why. Luigi is interesting if he truly is untouched but him being a top threat is more of a relatively recent development

 

[Firefoxx]

Its not even that big of a nerf. Falcon can get damage no problem, and still has bair and nair as fast aerial KO moves. He'll be fine.

 

[Yikarur]

Ryu is really good.
Weak Uptilt to Shoryuken is a true combo and kills Sheik at about 60% with rage.
It's a guaranteed kill combo against everyone, hype.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Ryus walk accel/decell is ****ing perfect wish Shulk had that god damn. His reward potential is crazy relative to many characters on singular hits and combos. However he certainly does feel other characters disjoints.

Capcom if you make your own platform Knockback fighter I'd be so down

 

[Ikes]

Ryu's moveset is the reason many people, myself included, think he's good.

I think the most important things about his inputs realistically are not that they are different, but that he has different versions of B-moves like Shoryuken which are almost always better than the normal B-moves when you use different inputs. Also with his light and heavy hold-the-button thing, giving him more attacks than most characters. The changes the inputs make to his moveset are important, not the inputs themselves.

@ Amazing Ampharos All of Lucas' throws are extremely good (the grab is bad though). I think Ftilt and Uair are good too. I think he's a good character.

ftilt is good, utilt is incredible since it goes straight into uair, dthrow goes into fair or uair at low percents,

I've been playing a lot of Lucas today and he's got some serious followup game, lot of kill power, i straight up think he's better than Ness, or at least on par. He's got so many more options that allow him to play an aggro game effectively, albeit he dooesnt have the same grab setups Ness has, but this is fine IMHO, his aggressive play and projectiles are all very strong, his PK Fire is super good at forcing opponents off stage, all of his aerials are great, I'm really loving him.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I love the salt from Zero about Diddy Kong and Falcon being nerfed... like at least they are still good. People like me who like characters such as Charizard, Palutena, and Falco have harder times dude. I mean with top tiers it doesn't take as much effort to win with your character. But for some of us who want to play our faves we have to work harder to win with them, so seriously put that scarf in your mouth and shut up.

 

[Smog Frog]

is anybody catching smash n splash? scatt's is in winners side gfs. he beat wizzrobe to get there, i bet he made more upsets

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I love the salt from Zero about Diddy Kong and Falcon being nerfed... like at least they are still good. People like me who like characters such as Charizard, Palutena, and Falco have harder times dude. I mean with top tiers it doesn't take as much effort to win with your character. But for some of us who want to play our faves we have to work harder to win with them, so seriously put that scarf in your mouth and shut up.

I don't know if its been made apparent yet, but the tier list doesn't really matter. In my opinion, what really matters is how versatile you are with your characters. In this meta, you can't be stagnant.

 

[deepseadiva]

In any of the past games I would have been really worried about the additional hit lag and things for Ryu. It was always some dumb character specific thing like that leads to critical weaknesses like getting chain grabbed or something.

But with patches they can do whatever crazy thing they want. Loooooooove patches

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ryu's neutral air does 15% - I've noticed that he has very damage input, I'd say that it rivals Ganon.

One of his weak points are a few very laggy moves.

 

[Trifroze]

I love the salt from Zero about Diddy Kong and Falcon being nerfed... like at least they are still good. People like me who like characters such as Charizard, Palutena, and Falco have harder times dude. I mean with top tiers it doesn't take as much effort to win with your character. But for some of us who want to play our faves we have to work harder to win with them, so seriously put that scarf in your mouth and shut up.

Are you saying that people shouldn't complain just because someone has it worse?

People who use viable or at least somewhat viable characters think of and compare things on a completely different plane. Getting a major nerf on one of the moves that gave you a decent chance versus some obviously better characters while said characters were left untouched is undeniably frustrating, even if the nerf by itself was justified. It's the fact that so many other things from so many other characters should've been nerfed first or at the same time, but they weren't.

 

[FullMoon]

I don't play Falcon but is the Up-Air nerf even that bad?

 

[Trifroze]

I don't play Falcon but is the Up-Air nerf even that bad?

It's almost as bad as Diddy's was in the previous patch. 2% Damage decrease and it kills 20-25% later. One thing that makes it a particularly big deal is that now Falcon has no vertical kill move that isn't both slow and super committing, and uair to knee doesn't work nearly as early as it used to which was a very useful setup versus taller characters.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

This is an excellent question, and I think I have an answer!

Zair. Zair is bananas.

Lucas zair has no lag (literally zero?) and does jsut enough hitstun to true combo into d-tilt or jab, or rarely f-smash. It's not like Brawl Samus; fishing strictly for harassment damage is not a winning strat, Lucas has to convert hits into damage.

I thought all zairs were lagless, or close to it?

Does Lucas's Down Smash still fill G&W's bucket? It did in Brawl IIRC. Could be miss-remembering.

I don't think it ever did. ZSS's dsmash filled the bucket though.

 

[thehard]

Up-air nerf change Falcon's combo game at all?

 

[Thinkaman]

At Splash N' Smash, Scatt just pulled out Ganon to take a game off Ally's Mario. Developing!

 

[Smog Frog]

where do people believe ,, and will end up? i've heard mixed things about , but and seem very good. do you guys think and have a case for top 15/top 10?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

So after playing some for glory matches, it seems like has a much easier time doing d-throw to uair chains on . Her d-throw on roy seem to send Roy far less back then other characters which I find to be interesting.

 

[san.]

Roy's tools don't really seem too convincing to me. How should he be played at high level for people to think he's very good? Many of his attacks have quite a bit of endlag/startup without enough %. Some attacks like uair are really good, but he has plenty of mediocre ones.

He has no short hop autocancels, his shield takes a long time to appear after a dash, and his dash attack & dash grab don't feel all that great, so I feel like I don't have too many options once I initiate a dash.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

At Splash N' Smash, Scatt just pulled out Ganon to take a game off Ally's Mario. Developing!

That's music to my ears. Was it in pools?
Edit: Holy crap grand finals never mind

 

[Ulevo]

Roy's tools don't really seem too convincing to me. How should he be played at high level for people to think he's very good? Many of his attacks have quite a bit of endlag/startup without enough %. Some attacks like uair are really good, but he has plenty of mediocre ones.

He has no short hop autocancels, his shield takes a long time to appear after a dash, and his dash attack & dash grab don't feel all that great, so I feel like I don't have too many options once I initiate a dash.

Forward air is actually good on Roy.

 

[Snokros]

did diddy's upair range really get smaller? im not noticing a difference. still hitting people on my sides quite easily.

 

[san.]

Forward air is actually good on Roy.

It feels really sluggish, like 9-10 frames or worse. Is that just me? It has really good IASA, but you can only double jump after a short hop fair at best, otherwise you suffer landing lag. The landing lag on aerials in general don't seem very good.

 

[Asdioh]

I feel like Roy's mobility is really good, and on top of the things everyone else is already mentioning, that will keep him at least highly viable. I didn't mess with Lucas too much, he seems alright. Ryu has a ton of options so he seems blatantly good, his runspeed is underwhelming though, and he might have difficulties against short characters? Kirby feels good against him. Doing hadouken inputs with kirby is also the greatest thing ao I hope a lot of people play ryu.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

So Day 1 of the DLC is coming to a close (at least in my region).
Any1 got the hang of the DLC characters? I know Ryu's the new cool kid with his unorthodox moveset, but I wonder if we have a clearer picture of his strengths/weaknesses.

 

[SpaceJell0]

How do people feel about ? To me he seems pretty solid, enough that he should be viable

 

[Xuan Wu]

Roy's reception seems overwhelmingly positive. I have been enjoying the character, so far, myself. There is one thing I'm curious about. Can the explosive hitbox on Roy's Flare Blade be used to exploit ledge snap vulnerability with certain characters' recoveries, or is it just an inferior Eruption?

^-^

 

[Firefoxx]

DED is kinda crap, huh?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Are you saying that people shouldn't complain just because someone has it worse?

People who use viable or at least somewhat viable characters think of and compare things on a completely different plane. Getting a major nerf on one of the moves that gave you a decent chance versus some obviously better characters while said characters were left untouched is undeniably frustrating, even if the nerf by itself was justified. It's the fact that so many other things from so many other characters should've been nerfed first or at the same time, but they weren't.

Yes that exactly what I'm saying. It's even more incredibly frustrating when your main doesn't get any buffs or very few buffs and they still aren't close to being at the same level tier wise as other characters. I seriously don't understand why people can act so sad about a high tier character getting one change and still being good, while we who play low tiers have to work harder to beat people.

Sure Falcon loses vertical threats, but at least he HAS threats. Some characters have no threats, and we have to make up for them, I'm not complaining my characters didn't get that buffed. I'm complaining that people are complaint about their character who is still good getting a little nerfed.

Sorry for any errors I'm on phone.

 

[|RK|]

I feel like Roy's mobility is really good, and on top of the things everyone else is already mentioning, that will keep him at least highly viable. I didn't mess with Lucas too much, he seems alright. Ryu has a ton of options so he seems blatantly good, his runspeed is underwhelming though, and he might have difficulties against short characters? Kirby feels good against him. Doing hadouken inputs with kirby is also the greatest thing ao I hope a lot of people play ryu.

Wait, we can do that?!

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Yes that exactly what I'm saying. It's even more incredibly frustrating when your main doesn't get any buffs or very few buffs and they still aren't close to being at the same level tier wise as other characters. I seriously don't understand why people can act so sad about a high tier character getting one change and still being good, while we who play low tiers have to work harder to beat people.

Sure Falcon loses vertical threats, but at least he HAS threats. Some characters have no threats, and we have to make up for them, I'm not complaining my characters didn't get that buffed. I'm complaining that people are complaint about their character who is still good getting a little nerfed.

Sorry for any errors I'm on phone.

Ironic, but good points. I don't really care much for these buffs/nerfs actually because they don't affect my play style too much. Also, I have a lot of characters to fall upon should there be struggles.
All about having that versatility.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I think falcon's Uair is actually just an adjustment. Instead of being really good at mid % for comboing (I'm thinking that's about it), you now have more kill setups out of Uair. I think.
Same with Falco. I'm now using Uair to just chain the opponent off the top of the screen, and I feel Nair is being made more like a combo extender. But I need more lab time in though.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Ironic, but good points. I don't really care much for these buffs/nerfs actually because they don't affect my play style too much. Also, I have a lot of characters to fall upon should there be struggles.
All about having that versatility.

I mean, I'm still going to be using the characters that people say "suck" because it's fantastic to beat a Shulk in loser's semis with Palutena. So yeah, I feel just like that people need to learn from the low-tier mains, and just suck it up and practice.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So I've spent a lot more time with Lucas. No seriously, this character is really, really bad. However, yes zair is ridiculous. I was just playing him like Brawl Samus, spacing zairs all day for 2% to shut down pretty much any non-Sonic tier mobility. Wait for them to make a mistake getting past it or to get hit in a bad way that gives you a follow up and then punish heavy. He has great follow-ups and all off tons of stuff (damage per hit is really low though; smashes are most of the double digit damage you'll be seeing), but outside of zair his neutral is just atrocious. Pk Fire is powershield bait. Lucas's mobility is sluggish. He just fundamentally has no good approach options at all other than zair; his only moves that have any kind of safety can't really be used in a mobile way other than zair which makes him extremely one-dimensional. His Pk Thunder makes me very sad. It's so laggy that you can do approximately nothing good offensively with it; virtually all of the endless clever tricks Ness had just aren't worth it because the endlag is so long while the projectile doesn't stick around long enough, and even if you do hit with something, the damage is just sad and it doesn't kill. His throws are good but it doesn't really matter since he has a ZSS level grab, just awful. I will be shocked if Lucas is not bottom 5, and even worse, unlike bad characters like Zelda his playstyle is extremely slow and obnoxious (like Brawl Samus with less control and more rewards). I honestly am kinda blown away Lucas shipped like this; this would seem to be a very poorly designed character as he stands. At least if you're really clever you can use Pk Freeze to hit the single frame ledge grab vulnerability, and it makes you feel really awesome (Pk Freeze is still not good but is way better than it was in Brawl)!

As per Roy's Flare Blade, it's a frame trap. Drop an uncharged or minimally charged one, and it's pretty much safe with a massive hitbox. If they try to move in hit them with whatever. If they think they can actually punish you can often fsmash them for it. Flare Blade doesn't hit down like Eruption and has no armor I'm aware of, but otherwise it's a far superior move and is actually a deceptively good move in general.

 

[Trifroze]

I think Ryu is probably top 10. He has some really amazing moves like shoryuken which hits on frame 6, kills at 90% and has very low endlag, and he has hit confirms into it from 3-4 frame moves. Focus attack is a safe bait/counter/read move although its utility is uncertain for now, and heavy jab is probably the single best footsie move in the game with its speed, damage, knockback, range and disjoint. It works as an anti-air because of it's angle but will miss short crouches like Pikachu's. Dsmash hits the ledge and comes out on frame 6, dair is a strong frame 8 meteor, bair has really good range for how strong it is, fair hard punishes overextension by your opponent and nair gets you out of combos. Ryu's damage output and kill power seem really good as well; dair and shoryuken are both able to take stocks well before 100% and at 120-130% range most of Ryu's quick moves will kill such as heavy utilt, heavy jab, usmash, fsmash, fair and uair. His recovery seems like a (much?) better version of Luigi and he is almost Falcon/Yoshi/Link weight, ranking just 1 unit below them.

He's not a perfect character though as his mobility is average and none of his aerials are safe on shield because of the excessive hitlag he experiences when hitting them. Seriously, bair has crazy range, does 16%, has only 12 frames on landing lag and still isn't safe on shield (such as Sheik with her dash attack) when spaced. He also has no grab setups aside from at like 0-10%, although his bthrow does 12% and dthrow kills with some rage if all else fails. I think Ryu benefits from rage a lot in general especially on shoryuken and because of his weight and (at least) decent recovery.

No idea what to make of the rest for now. Will probably take a while to figure Ryu out in Smash 4 because he plays so differently to all other characters.

 

[Smog Frog]

is zair really only safe tool in neutral? fair has little ending lag and has a big disjoint, and does decent damage to boot.